Im considering selling my Vortec head Combo.. Ported Built Vortec heads By Dyno Don.. With Manley springs retainers.. Sdpc Base manifold port matched, Modified for Super Ram.. Package deal..

BrandenCali

 

Why?

 

Im interested in going Afr's 195 and the engle cam I can play for 2 years.. You all want me to step up to the plate right?

 

They are waiting. I just sold the Super Ram, the new project engine is being built. Needless to say, you guys can do what you want the new engine will eat anyone alive, still be streetable, and guaranteed to pass SMOG! and NO NOS

 

I don't need an engine I need Alum heads, Cool to hear you got the Sr sold and you are moving onto the engine project that is actually going in the car.. I do know there is 2 heads im interested in.. Afr's and The Trick Flows.

I think I can be ready to make a pretty good pass at Fontana the 22nd? I could guess a 13.50 on what tire I don't know, The car feels like it's going to launch pretty hard..

BrandenCali

 

Branden, im sending you a PM

 

Kind of easy for others to talk about what their motors 'will' do now, especially after others have proven combos and have done research/testing.

 

Good luck getting the compression down and I hope you hit the numbers you are looking for

 

Branden you’ve got a solid 12 second combination now. The only thing stopping you from a mid 12 pass is you. It’s not a matter of anyone wanting you to step up it’s a matter of you strapping in and putting some numbers down. Hay baby you wanted it, it’s been built, and now its time for you to breakout some skills and take your place at the front of the pack. From what I understand the car is dialed in and ready, let’s see what you’ve got.

 

You got it Buddy.. I will be there It's dialed in.. Just a lil more and I won't have to much concern about my goal..

Alum heads will be another Goal.. I was just taking in consideration of the facts..

James aka:Jstcrzyengh has a set of Afr's I would like to have but he wants to much for them.

Randy I feel the compression maybe a lil High Im not sure. Im probably sure that it will be a matter of dialing in things better.. It will run.. I never owned an Iroc with this much power.. So what I hear could be my imagination of just how things are.. Im ready to go Dyno real soon..

Don has built an awesome motor for me.. I was just concerned b/c I think I hear knock up top.. Kevin viewed no knock counts..

See everyone at Fontana

 

Good man! Unfortunately I won’t be able to make it as I have a prior engagement to tend to but I wish you and Red Roc good luck and a hand full of killer time slips.

Remember what happens between the tree and the 1320th foot is all you…

 

As well as between the k-rails all the way down the track - no pressure though

 

Hi Brandon

Glad you will be there. Just put some 100 octane in that tank and don't worry about it. In fact you may have to full it up to get some traction. Hehehe. Allen

 

I dont want too much for them. Considering whats in them you are getting less then the cost of a new set for fully ported race ready heads lol For the price you offered they will go the next project. 55 bel air

 

Thanks Mike:yourock:

 

So when is the most important time I need to worry about this? Out the gate and going through 2nd? Maybe I better keep it in drive my 1st pass, get a feel of the lane..

 

Yep Im going to need all the help I can get for traction.. Because I don't think I'll gain any serious weight before Sat.

 

Yeah James but you still try to get full price for them. Even though it's your loss right now.. Maybe in the future you could use them in something.. But If I can't afford to spend that much just in heads.. I lean more into What's going to work for me.. And that could easily be trick flows or Etec's since I would have to get an Accel base with the Trick flows..

 

Etecs? lol Come on man... No one who wants BETTER heads goes to Etecs and it's not my loss man. You NEED AL heads that flow, I HAVE AL heads that flow, I dont NEED to sell them, but I cut off $300 to sell them to you... But get your trick flows or your Etecs. Then pay for them to be able to handle your cam, pay for them to get ported, and when they don't flow as well as the AFR's and cost you more then I was charging I can say "I told you so" AGAIN. I thought your learning the lesson of buying bad heads for your combo right now

 

Are you planning to be driving on slicks or streets? If you are going with just your standard street rubber I would suggest a shake-down run, learn from Sam aka FLYNLOWRS. Though I know that is easier said than done when at Fontana you are lucky just to get 3 runs in a night

 

Understandable..

 

It all depends if the slicks Fit.. If the slicks fit things will be good.. Is FLYNLOWRS the person with the ls1 engine that came to Cali recently?

 

The car went in another world today.. It is going so freakin quick.. The knock is gone.. The Vortec has cam alive.. Don sure does his best at building engines.. I could not be any happier with the build.. My concern was the heads.. I am still going to take in consideration the Alum heads.. Hopefully the knock will stay gone once im toned down on 91..

Now James I can understand about how well you like the Afr's.. Your a Lil stern on the Etec's and Trick flows..

BrandenCali

 

That would be him

 

Well I don't want to insult your intelligence.......wait a minute, yes I do
The dyno results are already in....on the Westec dyno, both the 170's and the 200 E-tecs made 435 hp on a 350 cu in
The 170's made more down low.
So you all can have your overpriced, crude looking, heavy AFR's

Edit:
Of course if I was going NHRA racing and was looking to set some records, maybe I would bite the bullit and splurge, but for a street car bah!

 

According to who? Edelcrap? Do you PERSONALLY have a dyno sheet to prove that? What else was in the combo? A supercharger lol

Please... There is a reason Branden got... Well, "talked" into using vortecs where everything had to be made custom, and no matter what he says on here... He tells Gene and myself everyday how he wished he would of bought the AFR's to begin with.

And ANYONE picking Etecs over AFR's I have to think:

:nono:

 

Comparison numbers at 28” of H20

E-tec 200’s flow numbers at 28”

Intake
.100 – 67
.200 – 122
.300 – 175
.400 – 223
.500 – 252
.600 – 259
.700 - 265

Exhaust
.100 – 57
.200 – 110
.300 – 153
.400 – 182
.500 – 196
.600 – 204
.700 – 207

My “Crude” AFR’s that still have a ton of room for additional porting

Intake
.100 – 69.3
.200 – 143.5
.300 – 196.4
.400 – 240
.500 – 261.9
.560 – 271.2

Exhaust
.100 – 51
.200 – 109.1
.300 – 149.2
.400 – 178.5
.500 – 194.5
.560 – 205.1

Not only do my AFR’s crush on the intake and have more airflow where it is needed, the exhaust is on the same lines, EXCEPT for the big fact that it is hitting 205 at .560 and it takes the E-Tecs to go to .700 to get there… But they are crude and heavy, according to you, and thus must make no power at all. Hence why they have a waiting list to get their heads and you can go pick up E-tec’s anytime you want. Also Edelbrock numbers are from the manufacturer, I would like to see a complete set bought from Edelbrock and flowed to get the “Real” numbers. Mine on the other hand are guaranteed and I can show you or post the flow numbers.

 

Wow, comparing manufacturer numbers to actual proven numbers. Man some gullable people around here, if AFR's flowed what they claim out of the box, you people would be in line and on a waiting list to get them.

It isnt likely that edelbrock is being completely honest with their flow numbers on the heads at all, even so, you've got a tad higher on the exhaust side of the etecs and a bit more on the intake of his AFR's.

Now heres where the real hard facts come in.

After you do a little research about Intake / Exhaust flow percentages. You'll see a good bit why the AFRs will be a good bit better, not to mention they still arent at max capability with his flow numbers, just a very very nice set for a street motor.

Here are a few quotes for you to consider.

"As a general recommendation for maximum horsepower racing applications, the exhaust port in your fully prepared cylinder head should flow about 75%-78% of the intake port flow rating at any given valve lift. This will allow the header to properly scavenge the cylinder toward the end of the exhaust stroke, which is essential for extending the RPM range of the engine well past the peak horsepower RPM."

"Design guidelines developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) suggest that the exhaust flow should be 75-80% of the intake. I prefer to be in the 80-85% range and port the head to achieve about 75-80% exhaust CFM flow compared to intake CFM flow. When using a stock cam, you can get good results even at exhaust/intake ratios of 90-95%. Such high ratios will also work in drag racing applications where the engine is intended to operate at wide open throttle (WOT) conditions. However, when a camshaft with more duration is installed in a "hot" street, auto cross, or road racing engine, a 90-95% exhaust/intake flow will over scavenge the cylinder resulting in wasted fuel and an undesirable reduction in torque. "

And on to the numbers for both sets of heads.

Edelbrock ETEC and their claimed flow data with the percentage next to each lift / flow.

1 67 57 85%
2 122 110 90%
3 175 153 87%
4 223 182 81%
5 252 196 77%
6 259 204 78%

And the ported AFR heads belonging to James.

AFR

1 69.3 51.0 73%
2 143.5 109.1 76%
3 196.4 149.2 76%
4 240 178.5 74%
5 261.9 194.5 74%
6 271.2 205.1 75%


Gee which is gonna work better for your mild rpm LONG tube runner setup ?

 

Wow you make 435 hp and only ran mid 13s ???

I don't know why you hate certain proven products so much. it's good to play the devil's advocate once in a while but you feverishly hate htem for one reason.

 

whats up with everyone these days?

 

Ok every one that's enough information for me.. Once my blood pressure comes back down.. I'll review.. You guys get to deep an hurtfull.. This is all for Fun.. But this is my daily driver.. I have always needed it to run well.. That's what matters.. Camaro's have there problems yes.. So it is important not to be out in the road some where an be stuck.. Im not a Man with strength any more Im more like a Disabled Mouse..

 

Sounds like you need a "rat" motor

 

Ok...what I say is, if you want AFR's ...go for it.
Just don't go around sounding on others for what they choose.
If you make a suggestion and others don't care for it...one shouldn't harp on it and try to change someones mind by being negative.
Like Branden said, we are all here to help each other and have fun

 

Agreed

 

I thought YOU were here to make me go fast and sabotage everyone else, or was I supposed to keep that on the DL??

 

You're right ....I'm sorry ( I'll get back to what I'm supposed to be doing) I'll be quite now.

Edit:
As long as I don't make you faster than me LOL

 

Here is a reasonable article about cylinder head flow numbers. Its not the bible of head flow info or the last word about it. But surely some good info and reading material.

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/

 

Here's Trick Flow's Specs

Kenny Duttweiler 64cc with CNC Chambers 23 Degree Airflow Chart

Lift Value: Intake Flow
(CFM): Exhaust Flow
(CFM):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


0.100 64 56
0.200 138 105
0.300 198 146
0.400 237 171
0.500 257 186
0.600 258 196

NOTE: Tests conducted at 28" of water (pressure). CNC-profiled chambers.


Not to bad for the price. Cheaper than both E-Tecs and AFR's

 

I couldnt find the heads you just listed online anywhere. Do you know who sells those exact heads? Closest I came was $2,795 for a set of TFS heads...

$2,795 is WAY more then the AFR's, nearly double what I was asking branden for for my AFR's, and mine flow better

 

Well, according to the trickflow web site, all KD signature SB chevy heads have CNC'd combustion chambers only.the I/E ports are as cast.

Summit sells them by TFS part numbers for $1200-$1400 complete. The KD heads are not mentioned, but the P/N's for the listed heads line up with the P/N's for the KD heads at the Trick flow web site.

They must be using his name to sell heads.
I would still buy a set before a set of edel brokes

 

$1,400 bucks not bad. See branden my heads flow a tad bit better and you get free 1003's for $100 more then the trick flows

 

1003's Well documented Junk!
But the heads all have pros and cons, and I would have Edelcrocks & Trick Flows before those others opinions are ...well you know

 

I hope your kidding on the 1003's.

1. They are recommended as the preferred head gasket by EVERY major aluminum head manufacturer, including AFR, who suggested it is the ONLY head gasket they would use. Also every major parts warehouse... Jegs, thunder racing, summit, etc...

2. They are one of the ONLY head gaskets to help to prevent brinelling on an Aluminum head.]

But you should know a bit better then the guys who make the heads What would they know. I mean heck they only build them. They don't know what they are used for

Those specific trickflows I would buy if I didn't want the VERY best... True they look like good above average street heads, but they do not have the ability of AFR's. As long as we can agree on that we can be happy lol

By your edit above I thought it was kind of funny. "If I was going for NHRA then I would step up" IE if I wanted to truly make the most efficient power. IF your going to spend $1,500 on heads, why not spend the extra $300 and step up to AFR's? Better all around head. I know you like the edelcraps and the vortec's and all, but most guys building serious street engines are going to go with AFR's over Edelcrap and TrickFlows anyday of the week. For branden's motor he should of never gone with Iron heads for his pistons. Too high of CR for California oxygenated octane. IF we were in a state where 103+ was around then ok...

Now for him, he has a couple of choices. Trick flows + shipping + gaskets, or mine that include gaskets and no shipping. Again I will sit on these for the Bel Air, I am just trying to help him out as a friend.

 

You're just like your own previous post "trying to sell something"
If you had ever "used Fel Pro gaskets" you might know something about how junk they are.
You don't get AFR's for less than $2000, I don't care who told you that.
So why do you keep pounding on Branden?

Edit:
[Now for him, he has a couple of choices. Trick flows + shipping + gaskets, or mine that include gaskets and no shipping. Again I will sit on these for the Bel Air, I am just trying to help him out as a friend.]

It doesn't appear like you are trying to help him, more like wanting to peddle your wares.

 

Hey Brandon Its Rusty how much for the setup?

 

There may be a point.. James knows how I feel about the price.. He knows me long enough to know my situation.. James is a Rep. And when it comes down to bussiness sometimes we don't agree.. I spent a lot of hours with James talking about ****.. He should Know I am a good friend.. Just cut me a deal.. I just need to sell my stuff.. I have cash in hand let's work the deal.. I could get 10k tomorow.. But I don't need it.. So here is the deal.. If someone is interested in the Vortec Combo and I know some are.. Hey.. Im going to do the best for them also.. But there are Faxs.. Here is another deal.. I really don't care about how much Afr's Flow Vortec etc.. I don't give a ****.. What I do care is getting the right head this time.. That will fix my problem if I actually have one with the heads.. The heads can't be that bad.. Here is a fact the Vortec have a very small chamber.. I probably just need a bigger one that's it.. The Vortec's if they were not to burn so clean.. Id probably be running terrible.. So trick flow afr's Etec's It's all what I can afford to get on the sell of my Combo.. And Im giving a lot away with the zz4 combo.. I want only the best.. Vortecs are ok.. But maybe we stepped a lil out of there range.. With my Current Combo..

So that's where we stand..

All I ever wanted was for the club to come together an grow and have good times an esp since I have spent all this money in my car.. And now it seems like it's all coming down to Knowledge.. Another reason why I told the truth..

We can get this you guys.. We just have to learn.. I have learned so Much from Don and other people.. Just in the past months.. I been searching an looking on this board for years.. I need 3rdgen AAA.. So the deal is Do It Right.. Don't be cheap.. And don't rush into things like anything in the world.. it does not matter.. That's why we have a Brain to Think..



BrandenCali

 

First to Don. Uh that would be true IF I went to Branden trying to sell them. Problem is he came to me; in fact he tried to get Gene to ask me to give it to him for less than what I paid! So prior to spouting things out, please know the complete situation. By your own verbiage you say you cant get AFR’s for under $2000, which you can, but that is besides the point since I didn’t offer them to branden for anywhere near that anyway… Also peddle my wares? Who talked him into the combo that isn’t working in the first place? Who built it said it would run, and it isn’t? Hmmm… Who’s peddlin what, and what’s this we be steppin’ in around here.

To Branden, how does my political stance have ANYTHING to do with you trying to get something for nothing… Except for maybe you are acting like a liberal democrat sticking your hand out and all I told you I would help you, I told you I would give you the intake gaskets, the super ram base that is brand new, the head gaskets that according to don is crap, but to the rest of the AL head manufacturing world is what they recommend, and give them all to you as a package deal. I have been MORE than fair. I just hate the fact that branden was talked into a combo that doesn’t run…

 

So you say...but what do you know???????

 

What do you mean "What do I know" As far as??? The situation? Whatever Branden tells me and Gene. When he comes to me saying "I can't get my car to stop pinging" and Gene PM's me and says "Man you should see Brandens car it is pinging REALLY Bad"

If you mean the heads, well that is simple I picked up the phone and called them. When I was looking to buy heads for that engine, I looked at all of the combos suggested here in this thread. What came out on top every single time? AFR, hands down... What Head gasket did TFS, Jegs (for their AL heads), and AFR all say? 1003's. "You cant get a better gasket to prevent brinelling on Aluminum heads" Now maybe there are better options for Iron heads, but I would hope your not suggesting using the same gaskets as that could cause a world of problems. Now notice I said COULD, not saying it would definetly, not saying it will, saying it COULD. Chances are kind of thing. Why not get the best gasket for the parts you are using? You keep saying they are bad head gaskets, but you didnt give any other options... As well, since I was giving them to branden for free, I still don't see why we are arguing over it? It seems to be deterring from the whole vortec fiasco... But that could just be my interpretation of it. What might be the cheapest route for branden is to get some lower compression pistons... That way he can keep his vortec setup, and from what I understand if it would stop pinging would haul like a bat out of H*ll. I am not sure, best to find whatever options we can for him.

 

I have AFRs and have used several alum heads over the years. While I loved my edebrock heads they didn't flow what I needed them to so I sold them. The e-tecs weren't out at the time and I doubt I would have gone the vortec head route anyways. Afr heads are probably the best out of the box but it comes at a price, literally. That cannot be argued. TFS heads are inexpensive but once you start changing valves and locks the real price increases. With any work all the aftermarket heads can flow right up there with the AFRs but out of the box the AFRs are still the king. With all that said the head guy I know tells me the TFS heads have the best potential off all the standard 23* chevy heads out there....but that also comes at a price and it ain't cheap.

1003 gaskets, while somewhat an SBC alum head industry standard, are pretty crappy. I personally have had bad experiences with felpro head gaskets (1003 included), and through numerous episodes will never use them again. It's hard to beat the quality and superiority of an OEM gasket. But if I was pullng my heads off every week I would love felpro head gaskets because they don't leave any "residue" gasket material.