I was on an LS1 Forum looking around and somone there said that Banks is making or already has made a twin turbo kit for the F-body cars, he didn't know which generation but he was almost positive that it wasn't for the LS1 cars. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything? I bet it would be for the LT1's and not the third gens, but it's worth asking about.

 

I just found the post again, so her it is

gale Banks twin turbos!

Just thought you power heads would want to know this..I just purchased an exhaust system from these guys,and they also told me they are releasing their twin turbo 350 packages for 80's thru 90's model 350's...power output will start about 750 and go up to 1600 depending on the package you choose...just passing the info along..that is all I know about it though.

It sounds like it's for racing and not street use. I just thought you guys might be interested in this info.

 

sweet!! when did you talk to them? do you have their phone number? hehe thanks!

 

I didn't talk to them myself, I copied and pasted the middle part from the forum at www.LS1.com, it was on the power adders or forced induction board.

 

this topic was hot some time ago, i think last summer. you can probably find it with search. it had over 100 posts.

some info on Banks web-site:

Twin turbo crate engines

...which have been on the works for some time now. 366/396/427 CID and 800/1200/1600 hp...
IF/when they have them finished, the price is going to be high...
so start saving now.


and while you´re there, read this too.

Banks 3rd gen TT Pontiac

it´s a story about how they ran 204 mph in "Mrs. Orcutt's driveway".

 

for those of you that want a "twin turbo kit" how about the old banks twin turbo carb kit converted to EFI (as seen here) and this is how it might look in a third gen (like 600+ hp carbed system pictured here in this F-bird)

 

I called Banks today to find out the real deal & the sales geek there told me that they are not done with them, nor do they have an estimated date for thier completion.

I was not satisfied with that answer, & asked him if there was someone else that I could talk with. he transfered me to Peter in Tech, but he was not there. I left a message, & was hoping that he would call me back, with some information, but I have not heard from him. I can only imagine that he was too busy loading a truck full of money or something equally important to call back a lowly cusotmer like me.

Oh Well, back to your normally scheduled program.

BW

 

I am a banks dealer and I am on it. talked to my rep today and he basically told me the same thing but he gave me some R&D people to talk to. My first order of business is to make sure that this doesnt go from " were thinking of building it, to were thinking that nobody will buy it".

 

I would agree with you about them thinking that no one wants to buy them. I am truely stunned that someone like accel, Banks, Hooker, Headman, etc, etc, etc, dont jump all over this. with people spending thousands of dollars to have custom headers made, a "universal" set of headers sold @ a decent price would make a killing, not to mention the profit that they would make on the rest of the items that are needed, that they can sell @ a not so decent price. This is marketing 101.

Heck if they were smart, they would aproach the Grape Apes & say, "hey, we will make you a manderal bent SS set for free, if you give us your headers so that we can make a jig".

What R&D is there to do? If you dont want to do a kit for them, sell headers, I am standing in line with check book in hand. Shoot, I am likely to have the car painted & sold by the time that happens, so....................

BW

 

this appears to be the type of EFI that is being used on the above TT system originally cast for http://www.haltech.com/ (they dont appear to sell it anymore and sold also by http://www.force-efi.com/systems.htm out of florida it is now used by holley who added thier emblem to the casting. this casting is now used on those 434 or 415 crate motors put out by Dart even. it has a large protrusion in the runners down by the port instead of a raised boss to hold the injectors that some argue causes a major restriction.

 

like this

 

Believe this or else, Peter from Banks called me this morning & we talked about the kits that they are doing. in short, they are expecting to have something available towards the end of this year. He said to keep checking thier web site for information.

He said that the R&D right now is specifically working on heads & head packages & that they are doing a lot of dyno work right now.

They are essentially going to use the same design manifolds that they have used in the past but open them up a little to increase flow. Also, they are likely to use these for most of thier kits for up to about 800 HP applications. For the higher HP applicaitons, they are likely to go with tubular headers.

He said that they work quite a bit with Garrett & that those are probably the turbo's that they are going to offer with the kits.

BW

 

Well so much for all the work I've put into building a twin turbo. When I first started my project they said that they had no plans on building another twin turbo setup.

 

FWIW, he said "we are looking to have something out by the end of the year",

but what I heard was

"we are HOPEING, to be close enough that we can tell you guys something towards the end of the year"

I am in manufacturing, & I know about deadlines & project dates & all that stuff, & it smells to me like this is not really an important project to them & they are working on it when they can. Mind you this is the feeling I get, based on the actual words that he used. we will see. It sure does sound though, that they are working on it & that it will eventually come to fruition, but when............

I would say that if we wanted to be pro-active on this, that we ought to send them a bunch of letters (or emails) & "show" them how many people out there have money & want to buy this setup. in just about every business that has a product for sale, this is what sets the priorities on what Eng projects get done first & which ones get pushed to the "when we have time" list. if there is no market, there is no Return On Investment, & it does not make any sense to spend the $ on R&D or production.

BW

 

Bringing this post out from the dead .... Saw an older Banks twin turbo kit with RayJay turbo's for sale and I got to thinking ... Did the search and now I'm kinda interested in the info B4Ctom1 posted. The main problem I see would be converting it from carb to EFI (TPI/TBI). So the kit for the SBC's from http://www.force-efi.com/systems.htm would replace the entire TPI/TBI setup? Read through the site and that what it looks like to me (costs $2750 and up ouch!). Anyone know of any other alternatives? I saw that andris converted to DFI for his setup. Anyone think its possible to convert the old Banks kit to a DFI setup on a L98 originally with TPI? I wonder if you could work one of the F.A.S.T. systems into that? Just throwing out some ideas ...

 

What I would like to see is a kit that won't alter my tpi system.
IE going to a tbi system like holley's or edelbrock's.
If they made something that would work with the TPI I would for sure be interested.

Just a question for you guys. If a twin turbo system such as the one I mentioned above is installed would other after market parts like a cam, heads, etc. be over kill? I still would like to build my stroker set up as I have planned. But if down the road I want to add a turbo kit I don't want to melt my car.

 

No it wouldnt be overkill. In fact if you plan to use forced induction it is recommended that you rebuild the engine with stronger parts. The only time that using aftermarket internals and such might work against you is if you dont have the right parts to match the forced induction setup you want to go with. For example if you raised the compression ratio of the engine to 10.5:1 or 11:1 and planned to run high boost. That would really be a no-no. From what I've read and seen the engines with low compression ratio (8:1 or 8.5:1) and foarged internals handle boost the best. Quite the opposite when looking for power out of high compression N/A setups.

The other thing that you have to remember is that a turbo setup is very very complex and it requires massive ammounts of fuel and air. I'm not sure if the stock TPI system could keep up to tell you the truth. You definately need to upgrade the fuel pumps and the injectors to ram more fuel/air into there. It would also require a company to make a tunable solution for TPI, and here is the solution ... SpeedPro/F.A.S.T. Sequential EFI, Wide-Band O2 Sensor, Individual Cylinder Fuel and Timing Control solution (http://www.fuelairspark.com/). It comes with an external computer that you can plug right into a laptop and tune the air/fuel ratio's, injectors, and prolly alot more than I'm not aware of ATM.

Oops gotta go. Talk more about it later. I strongly believe that you could take an older carb turbo setup for SBC's and using the two parts mentioned above in this post convert it to EFI on our generations of engines (heck Andris did it and he didnt even have to use a F.A.S.T. system!!).

 

Ok, heres some info I dug up from my Email archives on this subject. I talked over email with Patrick from Precision Turbo & Engine (219-996-7832) about turbocharging a SBC with TPI. These guys really know their stuff!! One of the things I relayed to him was that I wanted to do this correctly from the start. if that means I have to pay more for better parts, its worth it in the long run for me. I dont want to cut any corners. I also relayed a concern with the oil system. One of the things I dont see mentioned alot with homemade, junkyard, or domestic turbo setups in general is how they upgrade the oil systems to ensure the turbo's and engine get enough oil.

I dont know if I'm going about it the wrong way (some of you wont like reading this), but from what I see alot of the high horsepower imports out there (Supra, RX7, Skyline) have very very complex turbocharging systems. I really read up on their setups and see how it might apply to a setup on a v8. Seems like a good idea to me because they have already gone through alot of trial and error problems we might be able to avoid.

Anyway, enough rambling ... hehhe ... here's the info from Patrick regarding Turbocharging a TPI setup with one of the FAST Engine Management systems (I have eddited out the prices he quoted me because I dont know if he would appreciate me posting them here):

If you are staying with a TPI setup, we sell the FAST Engine Management system that is a direct bolt on for your TPI
/ L98 application. You would need a FAST Bank to Bank system 30-111010. You will also need an Interface harness for your application to make the system a true plug and play deal. Next you will need a 3 BAR MAP sensor. Seeing as this is a street/strip car, then you will need to run a Weldon 2015 fuel pump with two fuel filters. One before the pump being a 40 micron, and the one after the pump being a 10 micron. You will also want to run their voltage controller p/n 14000. The pumps are made here in house and are full billet aluminum, red anodized bodies with black anodized end caps that are made for -12an fittings. They have replaceable filter elements as well which we carry. The Weldon fuel pump voltage controller (#14000) is highly recommended if you intend to drive the car on the street. As far as injectors go, I would suggest the 55# injectors as they will support 975hp in a V8 application. We flow match all of our injectors from 50# all the way up to our 165# injectors. Also, for this application, you will more than likely need to go with a -10 feed line, and a -8 return line for your fuel lines. Either running a fuel cell or a sump on the stock tank. If you do go with a sump, then, both sump lines will need to Y into the filter before the Weldon pump. You will also need a Fuel pressure regulator that will work with these lines. The Weldon regulator 2040 is the best one for this application.

Now thats some good info!! So that covers pretty much everything aside from the turbo's themselves (cost would depend on single, twin, and sizes), the wastegates (HKS seems a good choice), the intercooler, and BOV's you might run, and of course building an engine strong enough to handle 900+hp (inc the bottom end and the intake manifold). So around what does it cost for all these parts to support a badass turbo setup on a v8 ... around $4,500.

And thats not cutting any corners. Add on the cost of the old banks kit, newer Qtrim turbo's, custom IC, wastegates, BOV's, intake manifold and engine internals (and build costs) and you can easilly spend $10,000, prolly closer to $15,000 inc the intake manifold tom posted above ($2700 and up piece). And thats just for the engine.

Starts to make the ARE built 360ci LS1 swap with Rob's single T66 turbo kit from www.LS1motorsports.com idea I had look cheap!! Hahhaha!!! Of course that setup would net you around 500-600 hp/tq while the setup above would prolly end up pumping out insane numbers somewhat like Monty's experiences (but not quite that cazy!).

 

I was actually going to go with fast anyways.
What would be different about the intake system?
I've never touch any turbo stuff so it's all kind of new to me.
Do you have a twin turbo in your car?

 

Nah I dont have any turbos in my Camaro's (but I do have a turbo mustang ). I'm still building up the drivetrain, suspension, and brakes before I start modding/swapping engines in my Project Camaro. People who do have turbo's in their Camaro's (if you want to PM them and ask them questions) are Andris, Guido, GMIFast (sold), and Monty (sorry if I forgot anyone else!). There are also a couple of other people toying with the idea (TheCamel, and some others I think). But so far I think I'm the only one thinking about swapping in a newer gen LS1 and boosting that. As far as the intake on the TPI, it would be different from the Banks kit because the Banks kit was made for Carb'd engines. You would need someone to custom fabricate the tubes from the turbo's to the intake section. Then there is the question of weather the stock TPI intake system (intake manifold) could handle that kind of power (flow). I personally dont think so. B4Ctom1 posted a link to a company that makes super strong intake manifolds (mebbe check out the link and email them asking why they recommend their product to get some answers) but I think you gotta convert to TBI.

Sorry man, its a messy business trying to build your own turbo kit. Companies spend LOTS of money just designing a system, let alone doing the R&D to find the parts that work together. Thats why for me I would rather go with someone elses kit that has been proven instead of building my own (tho the idea sounded like fun). I just cant afford to spend 10-15k on my engine and F/I setup and hope that it will work good. Maybe if I didnt mind using a carb'd engine, the Banks kit would be the perfect solution. But I gotta go with EFI because I plan to roadrace, streetrace, and maybe drift (might cause fuel starvation). So all I really wanted from the Banks kit are the exhaust manifolds, and some of the piping (I would replace the intake section, turbo's, and downpipe anyway). Plus the tuning possibility aspects of EFI systems (tho more expensive) are way better than carb'd turbo setups. Tuning alone can give you 100-300 more hp with the displacement we are looking at. If you do go through with it, I think the FAST system is a good choice.

 

Thanks CrazyHawaiian.
I think I'll just stick with my current mod list and see what happens in a year.

 

heres that banks kit for sale https://www.thirdgen.org/classifieds....tgo?adid=7129