My buddy just emailed me this sight, check it out they have a kit for a LT1. What do you guys think of it, might be a good option for anyone going turbo with a little modifying?

http://www.ststurbo.com/home

 

Id never mount a turbo under the back of my car, but that is just me. LOL

 

reasons not to....

probably ridiculous lag

speed bumps

water splashing a super hot turbine housing thus cooling it WAY too fast and cracking it

 

also for all the effort spent to put turbos as close to the source on "real" performance car's why do the opposite. They are charging you full price for the turbo why not get the most out of it?

A quick search for the original post on this system will show you the huge thread where this has already been discussed. If anything it is proof that true duals could follow the stock tailpipe routing on third and 4th gens, because with that kit they have run 3! pipes to the rear.

 

Who in their right mind would invest that much money into something that could be stolen in a matter of minutes with a sawzall.

 

no kidding a ricers wet dream

 

LOL.

 

I know I am probably going ot get flamed for this. This system does work. THere is an LT1 with that system that has a stock shortblock with trw turbo pistons, stock heads and cam. The car runs 11.90s at 18lbs of boost. Everything else on the car is stock. Their logic to their system is using a small turbo like a dsm style to get it to spool faster. If you have an automatic with a stall you can spool it quickly. As for the price its not bad, about 3300.00

Drew

 

Not bad @ 3300???

How is that NOT BAD??

The only tubing involved here, is a normal catback tube that could be built for UNDER $100 easily, a flange that is worth under a dollar, and some tubing and couplers that run back to the front of the car that could be done under $100.

The turbo, im willing to bet, is under $1000, that wastegate, is around $200 and a blowoff valve can be had cheaply.

I fail to see how $3300 is a bargain. If you consider that a bargain, then Im going to go into business selling tailpipe turbo kits for $2500 and laugh all the way to the bank while chodes buy what I have $1000 invested in, for $2500.

Here, install in an afternoon with jackstands, and a basic mechanics craftsman tool set. Hell, I could include the tool set and still come out smelling like roses.

What a ripoff.

There are mustang turbo kits out there that are about the same price, AND you get a fancy looking set of custom built turbo headers to go with it.

 

what I could not put into words you have, and well I would say...

 

How about 750.00 for a garret turbo, its on there web site

 

Just as a footnote, the callaway sledgehammer is considered to some as the fastest street car made, with a top speed of 254.7mph. It is a twin turbo'd small block, and do you know where the Turbos are? Underneath the car behind the front wheels. Check out the design here
and the picture of the turbos .

I'm not saying this is just like the STS design but the water hitting the turbo concern and having the turbo installed under the oil level are both dealt with effectively

 

You know,

I don't really like the design much either, but they have a post on CZ28.com where they made like 520rwhp at utah elevation. With the stock heads/cam/exhaust manifolds/exhaust... that is impressive You can see the graph there.

The real ****ty part is they are charging a fortune for the kit.. It should serously cost maybe $1000 w/o a turbo.

If my car wasn't already supercharged, I would build one of these things for myself for $1k and enjoy it..... shoot maybe i should turbocharge my supercharged car! hehehe

They aren't using a DSM turbo, Its a T04E with 60 compressor

 

I'm still in awe.. I'm mean its such a rediculus idea.. but it works you know? they just need to realize theres not much design to the kit and sell it WAY WAY cheaper.

Its also cool that it really wouldn't take but a few hours to install

 

Yeah, but at least the turbos on the Callaway Sledgehammer are NEAr the Motor.. Not by the Tail Pipes

 

I agree, its not any one thing that makes this wrong, its many things...

 

What about the results?

I mean, i didn't think the idea was smart either, but evidently it works... and looks too easy to reproduce cheaply


too hard headed to say that the stuiped design makes really decent power?

 

there are many bad ideas that can make my car go faster why would I want to pay $3300 for this one. There are hondas that go faster than my car it dont mean Im running to go buy a civic.

 

I think buying the system would be a bad move, it is a novel idea however and cheap to make on your own. Grab a turbo out of a junkyard, splice it into your exhaust as close to the motor as possible and add fuel. Pretty straightfoward.

 

It may expensive to some, but to others that dont have much skill with cars its cheap to them. Guido, I know what you are saying, but for whats it worth it does work. Hell if I had soem extra cash laying around I would do the kit myself just to try it. hmmmm I do have 3 dsm turbos laying around

The results are good, but there are good and bad points aobut the system. Every car or truck that has one makes good power and has almost no lag. I mean if it makes good power and it works why not try it out. Even if you build it your self its worth a shot because it could be cheap for a do it yourself person.

Just casue it is different does not mean it wont or cant work. Look at the cars that do have it. The make good power. I have a friend in NY that has one on his tacoma and let me you tell you. It is wicked!!!

Drew

 

I never said it DIDNT work. The dyno results speak for themselves. But to spend $3300 for that... thats just out of line in my opinion.

 

So they run a oil line(feed) from the motor and what do they do for a return(drain)?

 

read! the webpage says it has an oil pump to pump the oil back to the motor.

 

Hmmmm I did do a search for this topic but I didn't come up with anything.


You guys are right, yes this kit is very expensive for what you get but you got to admit it would be pretty easy to make a kit like this for yourself. Plus its such a simple design and if it does work why the hell not, I understand it might not be the most efficient turbo system but if you could make one for under $1500 I think it would be really hard to complain about that. Also if your worried about water getting at it make a splash guard for it.

 

Some picks of the system

 

2

 

3

 

One thing I really like about that setup is the ability to keep the engine bay looking stock. Imagine the look on the guys face after you smear him at the track, and pop the hood to show a stock motor.

 

ok and who the hell put the F-ING AIR FILTER UNDERNEATH THE CAR ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

If you didnt mind some interior noise you could route it into the hatch lol

 

Where else would you put the air filter???

If they are going to charge what they charge, at least make the tubing mandrel bent. Look at the bend going into the turbo. As if being a bend right there wasnt bad enough, its crimped like a cheap exhaust shop job.

 

i wouldnt put the filter anywhere 'cause its a stupid idea to begin with

 

I know that there are allot of things that people don't like about this kit, but...

I work with the owner of the car, he just dynoed it last week, and for an lt1 with stock heads, cam, and injectors, the numbers are really impressive I couldn't believe it made that much power.

520 whp and 620 or 650 ft lbs! on 14# holy ****!!!!

it's not the neatest setup and I know it could be cheaper but those numbers are incredible.

go to ufba.org there is a big article on it in the forum, if you are interested

 

Is it just me or is that turbo REALLY close to the gas tank??? Even with the heat shielding...

Can you say FIRE DEPARTMENT?

 

You can do a lot of things to make a car fast but i have never seen anything that ****ing ugly.

 

say what you want,

you can't argue with results, and price.. I'm not talking about thier price but the price to duplicate this kit.. I'll bet if i can find out what to use for a oil pump i could duplicate this easy for under $ 600 and in a days work/fabrication


520rwhp isn't too shaby for a stock manifold, stock cam and head car at really high (utah) elevation.


For those who say the turbo under the tank coudl cause a problem, how hot does your muffler get? is there any reason why this turbo would get hotter?

Also, they made a good point... even thoguht the heat energy isn't transfered as good as a turbo near the motor.. there is a HUGE pressure difference between the before the turbo and out the output of the turbo (near atm)... this would premote some flow

I mean honestly, i thought the idea was a bunch of bull ****.. but i'm reallly amazed at how good it tested

Imposible to bottom... i've never hit my muffler on anything.. **** the rear hangs lower.. if you hit your muffler on ****... start driving the car like a car and less like a truck

what is this with being able to see the turbo?... I have to get underneath my car to see the muffler.. how is this different?

the filter under the car? have you seen the cold air kits for the 4th gen? every one of them sticks the filter down low... i haven't had a splash guard on my car for years... yet to have any problems what so ever.

14psi.. i mean that speaks for it self, even on a higher displacement motor it should put out quite a bit of boost... even with a decently small/cheap turbo

easy of install... have you seen under the hood of a 4th gen? its freaking cramped beyond belief.. this idea makes it super easy to put a turbo on the car.


results so far on T04E turbos
@ 5psi on stock motor/manifold/cam 13.9 @101mph to i believe 13.0 at 109mph

@ 14psi on low compression stock motor cam/manifolds 520+rwhp at utah elevation.



This is honestly as rediculus as the idea of a electric supercharger, but damn.. this becomes way different when you see results.

 

Myself being a fellow UFBA member, I agree with zz4z28. I saw this car in action at the closing dyno day a couple weeks ago. This car is incredible. plus if you're the type of person who likes to show off their engine bay, when someone asks you what that polished tube is just say its a cold air intake . The reason for putting it underneath the car is that you dont have to worry about getting air into the intake.

As for performance the black LT1 they dynoed ran an 11.83 with stock cam, heads, and 2.73 gears. I'd like to see someone else do that. ( not intended to flame anyone, but i gots to protect my g's....werd! ). But anyway, this is a very capable car.

And most people would assume that if you put a turbo on your car you'd buy a car alarm, and if your car alarm doesnt go off when someone is hackin away at it with a sawzall, then you got ripped

 

Myself being a fellow UFBA member, I agree with zz4z28. I saw this car in action at the closing dyno day a couple weeks ago. This car is incredible. plus if you're the type of person who likes to show off their engine bay, when someone asks you what that polished tube is just say its a cold air intake . The reason for putting it underneath the car is that you dont have to worry about getting air into the intake.

As for performance the black LT1 they dynoed ran an 11.83 with stock cam, heads, and 2.73 gears. I'd like to see someone else do that. ( not intended to flame anyone, but i gots to protect my g's....werd! ). But anyway, this is a very capable car.

And most people would assume that if you put a turbo on your car you'd buy a car alarm, and if your car alarm doesnt go off when someone is hackin away at it with a sawzall, then you got ripped

 

Can you actually see the turbo while the car is on the ground?

my point was the turbo looks as high as the panhard rod and up near where the muffler is..

I can't see either on my formula and it doesn't have any ground effects

 

They havnt had one problem with them so far, only positive feedback. The company that does it is local to me, I talked to one of the guys that works there, he said that if they got enough people interested they'd make a thirdgen in or out of engine compartment turbo kit.


something to think about.

 

one thing, it would suck for the air discharge pipe if you bottomed out, that is if it is made out of the same stuff as your run of the mill cold air intakes. you would be screwed then

 

I personally think it's a sweet idea... especially for the sleeper effect

 

you can see the air filter.
in order to see the turbo you really have to bend over quite a bit to see the turbo, but when you see an air filter in the back of a car you automatically will look just to see what it's doing back there!

 

I saw the trans am on their site. They had the turbo tucked very nicely up under the car, you couldnt really see it at all, or the air filter. The air filter is up as high as they can get it.

The thing you cant mistake is the sound, You can hear the turbo MUCH more than you do other V-8 turbo systems I've heard. you cant hear it at Idle (which follows inline with most turbo setups) but its blatantly apparent very quickly that this is no 'normal' LT1.

again, they did tell me that if we had enough interest they would do a thirdgen kit, either in or out of the engine compartment, whichever the said interest requests..

would be cool to see someone making turbo systems for thirdgens again

 

I wonder what pump they use to scavenge the oil back to the engine. maybe the electric one in the moroso engine pre-oiler

( I couldnt find it though )

 

Personally I don't like it, there results do LOOK good, but look a little deeper. My problem with it is that if you dig deeper into their website they contradict themselves in the faq and provide a lot of BS. And if you look at their "dyno graphs" the car is far from stock. It may be a stock block, but their 11 second run had lower compression, so that means internal engine work, high ratio rockers, stall converter, and alchy injection.If you'll take my word for it you can skip to the end of this post where it says end rant. if not you can read on. I'm sure people with the technical background will back me on some of the more esoteric parts.
BEGIN RANT

Quote from one part
"There is more to running higher boost than just turning the boost up".
Quote from a little farther in "That is the beauty of the turbocharger. Power can be gained by simply turning up the boost. The turbo kit does not need to be upgraded".
Hmm, seems contradictory to me. Though the first answer is the correct one.

Then there is this one "Do I need to put headers on to optimize the turbo system?
No, the extra expense and work to install aftermarket headers isn't necessary. Headers are designed to eliminate backpressure in the exhaust system and fascilitate exhaust scavanging and flow on normally aspirated engines." BS!!!! if that was the case there would be no need for people to be spending all this money on headers for their turbo'd cars. Headers make a huge difference on a turbo, especially in spool up time. and with this kit you will need the help no matter what they say.

Then there is there answer to this question "Don't turbos have to be really hot to work properly?" I'm not gonna paste their answer cause it's to long, and my shovel doesn't go that deep, just leave it at the fact that their explanation really doesn't follow normal physics. I have doubts about their claims of the longer intake piping providing an intercooler effect as well but I really don't want to get into a long discussion of the math of thermodynamics and heat transfer, especially over time, not on a drag strip. Also their explanation of why you get pressure drop across an intercooler is faulty.

Oh and one more thing, all their times and sheets on the site are on a g-tech, which doesn't lend a huge amound of credence. Sure we know the gtechs work ok, but for a 3300, i damn well better see some real strip times and real dyno time.

END RANT
So with all this faulty info they are provideing I have a lot of trouble believing in this system as advertised. In short learn to dig a little deeper for info.
Oh and BTW 520 hp out of turbo'd v8 isn't that much, consider guys are getting that and better out of junk yard engineerd turbo rustangs, not to mention what the ricers get out of theirs. Hell i'm getting right at 300 with my 2.3 liter 4 cylinder SAAB. Not to mention how many nine second turbo 6 cylinder buicks there are.

 

Here's a pic of their oil pump:

.

Any idea what pump it is? We run a diaphragm pump for the rear end cooler on the TransAm car. There's no reason why that can be used in this application... I'd have to guess between $50 and $75 for the pump. Looks like a std pump from McMaster-Carr to me...

Gotta love these "facts" in the FAQ section:
Turbocharged engines work on slightly different principles. Namely, there is exhaust "Pressure" between the cylinder heads and the turbocharger because the turbocharger is the smallest diameter orifice in the exhaust system. The turbine housing gets smaller in diameter to increase the velocity of the exhaust gasses before they hit the turbine wheel. This is how you get 100,000 rpm wheel speeds. Turbocharged exhaust gas pressures can see as high as 30+ psi on high boost applications. So spending money on higher flowing exhaust components designed to lower exhaust backpressure is usually a waste of money. This money would be better spent on an upgraded turbocharger which would produce more efficient boost with less backpressure or just spending the money on upgrading the engine and fuel system to handle more boost.
</faq>

Geez... Guess the guy doesn't understand too much about efficient plumbing... Ya know, stuff like smooth bends, less restrictions are better, etc. I'm sure this is why all turbo racers ditch mandrel bent exhaust piping for restrictive factory manifolds, right? :P

Andris

 

I thought I read in one of the many posts They said they had LS1 rods.

Dead give away its not a STOCK motor. if your in the motor to do rods come on. like your not gona do better pistons etc..

 

Im thinking it wouldnt be a bad idea for a JYD project using that GM 6.5 diesel turbo I found. I cant figure out that pump though. I figure it is the morose prelube unit but I cannot find that moroso one anywhere. I think a holly blue would scavenge just fine. I figured the engine would supply enough pressure and a pump would be needed solely for scavenging the oil back to the pan yet I see a hobbs switch in a T-fitting, and they discuss a low pressure alarm. I would just run a second gauge from the T on the turbo to the gauge to keep an eye on turbo oil pressure.

I also see no intercooler.

 

The charge tube (from the turbo to the intake) acts as an intercooler in his application… he claims about 50% efficiency (the guy seems to honestly believe in his kits, not trying to scam, but doesn’t seem to really know much about theory or what things are doing).

I know that a fuel pump works fine pumping oil but isn’t happy if you let it run dry, maybe like andris said, something from McMaster or Northern?