Hey guys,
I deeply checked into the DriveClean Program and what the definition of a hotrod was before swapping in an LT1 onto my 86 IROC. Turns out if you have 'an engine installed that was not originally offered in that year or model vehicle' your vehicle will be tested as a hotrod or enthusiast vehicle. The test parameters used are those from 1980, the DRIVE CLEAN MANUAL quotes 'these test parameters have been relaxed so that any vehicle engine produced after 1965 will easily pass' The manual also says to only check for a gas cap and specifically NOT to look for a calalytic convertor or any other emissions device.

I begged enough and got photocopies of the manual from the tech to back myself up when I go for my test.

Anybody else ever found this out??

I tried calling around to the ministries and the actual test offices and was given the run-around for about 2hrs on the phone. Figured I'd go right to the source.

 

My car is also an 86 IROC except I went with a 350 ZZ4 crate engine and a striaght through 4" exhaust with no emissions controls or catalitic converters or anything. Passed fine under hot rod status the only thing they really did was make sure it wasn't blowing smoke and that the gas cap held pressure.. Passed no problem. I even have hte emmisions test for where at the top right all of the emissions things such as catalitic converter is just says N/A for them all except gas cap pressure test.. Hope this answers your question.

 

Are you still using your evap canister?? I'd like to pull mine out and need to find a solution for what to do with the tank vent tube!

 

Where'bouts in Ottawa are you located?

 

Yeah, where in Ottawa are you?

And thats good for you guys, I have an 87 and have been told that I may not get hotrod status with my 383 because it's still a 350 block. Acceldz is in the same boat as I am.

 

Check the casting number on your block

An "010" block was produced up to 1980

My car passed through under the Hot Rod clause
with this block and a .060" over bore +360 ci. in.

This was clarified and preaproved by the ministry before the test was run. Do not try or expect the tester to go out on a limb
for you because they have a 0 tolerence policy.
Just ask him to contact the ministry with the particulars of your car and motor swap. Tell 'em It's a old 383 or 406 or 358
or 327 or what ever just don't tell 'em it;'s a rebuilt 305 or 350.
There is a difference between a tampered with car and
a true hotrod engine swap.
When you look under my hood it looks like you're looking at
a motor from the 1970's.
If you have a decent running car and know your stuff
(block castings numbers) they won't question you further
because the law makes provision for this under the Hot Rod,
Gray area market clause of the Drive Clean act.

Be aware that according to the Enironmental protection act of
Ontario : no car can be operated on public roads without a funtion
ing catalytic converter if it was origional built with one by the
manufacture. A cop can enforce this law with a rather large fine as an agent of the ministry.

 

That is true about the emisions, as long as you are swapping in a displacement other than what was offered in that car in that model year, its classified as a hotrod.

 

tanager11
is right. say you got 88 iroz-z or something, you re build the motor(350) change to carb etc,,high lift cam, bored, it doesnt matter, you will still be tested as 1988 with a 350,boring doesnt matter, neither does a high lift cam,government dont give 2 hoots. Same goes for stroker motors,the block is still a 350, and 350's were offered in that car in 88, so its tested as 1988 350,you can TRY to get a hot rod status if you go down to the ministry, with all youre ****,its worth a try.

now, if you had a big block swapped in,or 327 then you are guarnteed hot rod status.

 

This is from the Environmental Protection Act Regulations current to June 22/02. Make of it what you will - I'm not taking issue with anything that's been said already.

Hot Rod - vehicle in which the original motor has been replaced with a motor of a type not installed by the manufacturer on that model of vehicle for that model year.

A hot rod that receives a motor replacement on or after Jan. 1/99 shall receive a motor designed to meet emission standards at least as stringent as those achieved by the original motor with all its original emission equipment attached and functioning and the replacement motor shall have the original converer and all the original emissions equipment or equivalent replacements included or usually included with the replacement motor by the manufacturer of the motor.

If a vehicle was manufactured with a converter - you can't bypass, disconect, remove or otherwise alter the converter.

If a vehicle was manufactured with a system or device to prevent or lessen emissions - you have to maintaine that system in a state of repair so it is capable of performing its original function.

Work done to bring the vehicle into compliance for the $450 conditional pass must not be done as part of a warrenty - the money has to come out of your hide. Not that it would likely ever be part of a warranty - used car maybe I guess - but would'nt you like to get your hands on the malevolent little bastard that came up with that one.

 

Hey 6speedIROC I take it you have a 6-speed under your tranny hump -- enough on emissions -- what about the tranny conversion ???

Was it expensive ? How does it work as a daily driver compared to the stock setup ? I've been wanting to put a 6-speed conversion on my todo list but have not bumped into anyone who has done it yet.

RP.

 

I've been thinking T56 myself as my 200C is about to go and to replace it with a 700R4 would requier a new DS and cross member etc. so I might as well switch it over to a standard. There's some good posts on the cost of this over on the tranny board including a list of the stuff that you'll need - whether you can use 4th gen peddles and so on. One guy said about $2,500 - 3,000 US.

 

I had a talk with the ministry about 3 years ago when the whole hot rod thing came up and a representative and I came up with these interpretations as will be enforced by the ministry based on my car.

I have an 88 Camaro SC
It came with a 305 TBI,

Engine options for that year were 305 TBI, 305 TPI, 350 TPI
and all those puny V6 engines...

Since for my model year a 350 was available and manufactured for that type of car (Camaro), it is a type available for my model year and thus not considered a motor of a type not installed for that model year blah blah..

Plain english
350 was offered
350 is not hot rod engine
If the core block is still the same in the car, it still started as a 350, therefore it is considered a 350
If the core block is still the same, it started as a 305,
it started life as a 305, no matter what, it is a 305
the only way is if the block (remember the wording does not specify displacement) is not an original block 302, 402 etc

The block has to start life as something else, essentially by their wording and how they can and do enforce it. That's why I can't go 350 for my car and hope to pass a 305 test till its 20 years old. Its why I am building up an emmissions legal 305 as best I can (being poor doesn't help either lol)

If you want to go and argue with some ministry heads and see if they'll let something slide you're welcome to try. As far as I'm concerned 88-up people are outta luck, previous model years I think are ok as long as 350's were not made AVAILABLE that year, key note it has to be an offered readilly available option that year, else by the same wording, a 350 is a hot rod engine... don't you just love vague writing? It can work both ways...

 

EXACTLY!!!
Hes just summed up what i said in easier form!

Hes is totally right, the CORE block! so stroker's are fux0red!unless its a 400 that been stroked..

 

PS: 350s were in the iroc-z in 86 and 87 too

 

In 1986 they only made 50 IROC-Z's with 350's and they could not be ordered from the dealer.. So as far as the goverment cares they don't exist so if you have a 86 iroc with a 350 in it you can get classified as a hot rod which is what I did with my 86.

 

ok then,,,well 87 and up

 

Or you could do what I'm doing and just keep you car off teh road until its 20 years old (liek my 83 Z28) and tehn it will be considerd a classic and is exempt from testing

 

Sounds like I'll be alright in my 86. I have a 95 LT1 installed, with a T-56 that was put in 2 years ago. The block is obviously not original (was TPI) , and the 350 was not available in 86 like IROC ZZ4 says. The car is a true hot rod, not just an emissions stripped junker. I'm safe until next year on the testing, just got plates today. Have yet to fire the LT1, put the plug wires on last night, what a job on the passenger side!!!

As for the T-56, the swap was not that difficult, waaay easier than the engine. It cost me about $1600cdn if you can believe it. I found a mint trans for only $900. Got a used clutch, flywheel, pedals etc and modified a crossmember from a 95. Machined the tailshaft to fit mechanical drive speedo gears myself. I've put a bout 50K on it and have had no problems other than the clutch slipping. If anyone needs help or details I have lots of pictures and a drawing for the gears. It used to be a daily driver (and only car) for the past years...might change this year.

I'm in Stittsville for you local guys, was living in TO for the past few years..big mistake! so haven't hit the cruise nights in a while.

 

Is your car red with an aftermarket hood? Maybe us Ottawa guys should have a little get together. We could even invite Carm for entertainment

 

Yeah, we'll have to get together for sure

 

Sounds like a good plan. I'll hopefully be running by next week again, maybe by Friday.

No aftermarket hood, plain red, no stickers.

 

Slade1's explanation is accurate as it is laid out in the "Standard Operating Procedures for Ontario's Drive Clean Facilities", February 2002.

-This is the guide sent to DriveClean Test/Repair facilities on how they should conduct/administer the tests.

Appendix C, page C-3 has a list of "Examples of Hot Rods" and it shows two VERY SPECIFIC examples involving f-bodies (coincidentally):

a 1992 Firebird with a 6-cylinder being changed to a 5.7L v8- "NOT A HOT ROD" as a 5.7 was offered in 1992 model year on that vehicle.

a 1994 Camaro with a 5.7l 8-cylinder being replaced with another, rebuilt/reworked 5.7l block- including overbores, strokers, etc. "Internal and external engine and/or fuel system and/or electronic engine control modifications do not qualify for hot rod status."


Further explanation in the guide: Hot Rod "type" refers to either the manufacturer or the block size of the replacment issue. This goes on to say that, say, a Ford engine in a GM vehicle is a "hot rod" and 1990 Firebird with a bigblock is a "hot rod" and, as above, a 1992 with a 350 stroked to 383 is NOT a hotrod.

However- as long as you can convince the test facility you have a 'hot rod' they can put it through and the MOT will not argue with it- so convincing the DCF that a 383 stroker is not an 'original engine' may be viable depending on the actual knowledge of the DCF employee.

As someone mentioned above- they had gotten the MOT to call their 383 a 'hot rod'- this was obviously because of the ignorance of the MOT employee in the case- i.e. cubic inches versus litres may throw them off, and they may not understand what a 383 is, and therefore assumed it was a totally different block than a 350/5.7l. I.e if going this route- do NOT tell them how a 383 is achieved- hell, call it a de-stroked 400 (i.e. a 377 with a HUGE overbore) for the sake of argument.

The point- the Driveclean is pretty clear that is doesn't matter what year built or what modifications were done to an engine- if the same size was offered that model year in the vehicle- your stuck meeting the requirements. Only the person you are trying to convince otherwise' ignorance is going to save you...

 

Although my car was accepted and tested under the Hot Rod Clause as a 1980 with a 360/ 5.9L motor.

It passed the standard with ease and would have passed a
1988 standard if it had cats on it during the test.

 

Wow, looks like I'll have to tour down to T.O. for my test for some leniency cause the places up here are hard asses.

 

I have done a thorough check on the emission hot-rod thing as well.

I was going to buy an 87 iroc with a 355 tpi in it. the car was missing all its emission lines and emission pumps, and had no cats. I was wondering whether or not I can slip by without this stuff.

They told me that as long as I can prove that the engine is not the stock engine that came with the car it would be tested under hot-rod class.

However, the next interesting thing was about the cats. Once tested under hot-rod class it was unsure of whether or not you need the cats, because you would be tested under 80s standards. Well, turns out that IF YOUR CAR originally came with cats, then you need them. And as for the emission lines and pumps, you gotta have them too.

I didn't buy the car after this information, even tho it was a sweet ride.

 

Here's another pic of the car that was tested

 

Yeah.. I think that's what I was quoted all those years ago lmao. I do reacall the disgust I had when they told me a ford in a chevy would be considered a hot rod... echhhh.... I didn't argue the point and from that day onward I figured I'd build my car to be the best damn emissions legal 305 it can be. Getting it back to stock form was one hell of a challenge I cna say, but if done correctly, you can blow away those stock factory numbers good. My pet project, only in its design stages, is a custom LS6 based car, possibly a 3rd gen frame with a LS6, or even earlier.. imagine a 1st gen restored but updated with an LS6... that would be one sweet ride...

A note for 86 IROC owners, the 350 IROC WAS NOT MADE AN AVAILABLE OPTION, although made, just not offered period as a last minute decision. I feel there should be some demand for 86 models now hehe...