I've been experiencing popping noises from my front end. Especially during slow speed turning (like parking) when forces are strongest. I had the infamous frame crackes at the steering box, but I fixed that myself by welding on a metal plate and adding a wonder bar. Still had noises. Replaced all suspension and steering (KYB and Moog w/spohn adj. sleeves, which I badly needed anyway) and still grinding popping noises.
A friend suggested I make sure all my crossmember hardware was tight. Igot under there and sure enough it was. At least the hardware that was STILL THERE. I noticed empty holes in the crossmember on each side of both springs and immediately took a trip to the local boneyard for further inpection.
Sure enough the first Maro I looked at (also an '84) had 1 bolt on the dr. side and 1 on the pass. side. The next Maro I looked at had all 4.
They didn't even charge me fot the bolts. and when I got home I had a magical moment when all 4 threaded into there new homes. I cranked those bad boys down as tight as I could, set her back down and wallah. No more popping noises.
I wanted to post this because I know the front end noises is a FAQ, and when I searched for answers I never heard mention of the X-member hardware, which I'm assuming is a common problem based on how many Maro's at the junkyard were missing some. And I definitely don't regret all the other stuff I replaced along the way. But this bnit of info might save someone a lot of duckets.

 

thankx for the info gonna check it out tomorow morning ....thanks again

 

I'll have to get under mine tommorow and check too. Thank's for the tip.....

 

So your saying the bolts that hold the crossmember to the unibody are missing?

That will forsure be a weekend inspection.

 

Woah, going to check that sometime today!

 

I was just wondering how I could stop that noise 15 minutes ago when I ran up to the store.....

 

Just wanting a little clarification: what exactly do these bolts do? I mean what do they hold to what? Thanks

 

He's talking about the 4 bolts that hold the crossmember on. I currently have only 3 since I snapped one off flush and haven't been able to get the damn thing out yet. More pics here. You can see in pic #13 where I only have one bolt on the driver's side now that the other one snapped off:


http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tar...ement.&.src=ph

 

yeah, hahah i snapped one of them bitches couple weeks ago when i was takin out my motor and tranny....hate that ****...

 

Yeah I hate it to, I also hate it when the cobble job I did didn't hold and the driverside of the trans crossmember fell and was hitting the pavement on bumps talk about some noise. I fixed it (the right way) by cutting a hole in the floor pan over the area where the nuts were and ground out the old nuts and welded in new nuts and welded the hole I cut back in, so far its just like new.

 

I'm talking about the front suspension main k-member. the two subframe rails rest on top of it and the motor mounts bolt to it. There are also triangle supports on each side in the front and 1 support bolt in the back. Luckily all of these were still intact on mine, but they are worthy of inspection.
I'd advise checking all of these bolts anytime you have the car up. My car was seriously swimming around on the crossmember when these were missing and the popping, grinding noises drove me nuts. After replacing the 4 bolts, 90% of the noise stopped. When I finally get the Spohn weld in SFC's, I'm hoping to conquer that last 10%. I didn't mention that when I replaced the bolts I also upgraded to Spohn's preloadable wonderbar to further stiffen things up. The steering response I have now gives me perm-a-grin.

 

Yeah that's I thought you were talking about - I'll have check them because my car's got a lot of suspension work done to it but it still has those front end groaning and popping noises.

 

can you show us dumb people a picture & if you can circle the the area you are talking about so that I can go check in my car.
thank you

 

OH! THOSE 4 bolts...I'll be sure to look at mine the next time mine is out. Thanks for clearing that up.


Ed

 

By ALL 4 do you mean 2 per side.Because ive inspected/torqued mine many times & there are 3 per OR 6 total.Ive never seen a 4th if there is one,but ill be under the car friday.Im going to look real close this time.Unless i misunderstood you?

 

I'm not very computer savvy. Maybe I can get my bro to help me take digi photos and post them this weekend. For now I'll try to describe the best I can:
If you raise the front and remove the wheel you can get a good look at the coil. The coil enters the crossmember through a circular hole. To the direct front and rear of this hole is where the bolts go.
IIRC, the front bolt is a bit longer than the rear bolt. There is 1 bolt on each side fo the coil. 2 bolts on each side if the car. A total of 4 bolts. Upon my first inpection, I noticed a clean metal ring around 1 bolt hole on each side of the car, indicating that the bolts had dissappeared in the recent past. The other hole on each side was caked with crude, indicating that those bolts had been missing for a while.
I couldn't find torque specs in the Haynes or Chilton so I just gave the junkyard acquired bolts everything I had with my breaker bar (prolly 150ft/lbs, and with an 18mm socket, I think). I could hear the frame coming together with the X-member and I knew I was fixxing my problem.
There is also a triangle brace in front on each side. 2 bolts to X-member & 1 bolt to frame/ 3 per triangle. I addition there is 1 more bolt on each side at the rear of the X-member. Now we have a total of 12 bolts involved; and all holes are slotted, clueing to the fact that the X-member can be aligned.
Mine was loose for so long that when I shift for 5th or R the stick rubs the side of the console. My nxt step will be loosening all the hardware, including the tranny mount, and shifting the unit into correct position. Hope this helps some of you with similar problems.

 

theres suppost to be six of them holding the front K member on.

on each side theres:
one short in the farthest back hole
one a lil longer in the middle hole
the longest one goes in the front hole.

3 on each side.

theres also a locating pin... if you only have 2 bolts in, then thoes pins were the only thing keeping it from sliding around.

 

Not the best of pics, however, this is important. Can see that the #4 part are the bolts for the one side. Other side is the same.

RBob.

 

are you talking about the noise going into a slow left turn or something, sounds like a bar snapped or something ??????

 

That's it. Mine was hanging on by the bolt #4 that goes through hole #2 on each side. Where did that pic come from. I didn't find squat about the k-member in Haynes of Chilton.
Yes there are 6 Large bolts total. But that illustration doesn't show the triangle supports that bolt to the front of the member with 2 bolts and to the frame with 1. One triangle on Lh and Rh of member, adding 6 bolts to the total. Totalling 12 bolts involved with the k-member and readily available for inpection.

 

That is from a GM Service Manual, if you work on your car yourself you must get one. It saves so much time and really helps you figure stuff out. I love mine.

 

Are these the triangle braces you're talking about - if so I don't think they were on the earlier years:

 

thanks to the person that brought this to our attention, i honestly didn't realize there were even bolts there, i figured it was a welded piece,

none the less, i checked mine and i still have all 6 bolts but they were, all loose enough that i tighted them a minimum of 3/4 turn, a couple were worse than that,

i presume that its something GM knew about thus the extra braces in later years.

its scary to think that people are out there driving right now, with those bolts loose or missing

 

This could qualify as an "Important/Useful" sticky. It seems everyone might need to make a quick check if we are losing bolts!!

Only for everyones safety

 

How tight should these bolts be?

 

118 lb/ft
160 N/m

RBob.

 

Thanks

 

i actually had my subframe rust right out there and the drivers side of my crossmember drop right down. I have it welded up there for a temp fix till i can afford to get the subframe plated and drilled and new bolts put in there.

 

...but i have a few reasons.

The picture a few posts up appears to say 160 n/m(120 ft/lb).

I dont know which year car that is from but my picture says 90nM(66 ft/lb) and 70nM (51 ft/lb). My attached picture is from the 1982 Service manual.

Im putting together a torque spec list. So i can torque my bolts while im at school and have access to a good torque wrench.

 

The Pic and spec's I posted are from the '92 factory service manual. It is possible that the bolts coming loose has been an on going issue and GM changed the torque spec.

RBob.

 

I was thinking along those lines.

 

Going to tighten those right now ... while the car's jacked up and I'm waiting for the RTV in the thermostat housing to set properly

 

One of the bolts located i nthe triangular supports .. may be stripped ... turned slowly .. then started turning real easy ... I hope it's just a case of a bolt being rusted/stuck and then moving more freely ... but it may very well be stripped threads


Either way I'll have to take it over to a garage to be able to reach all the bolts more easily

And waow ... broke .. a CRAFTSMAN socket .. a 15 mm one !! Never seen one break.. .seen other tools snap break bend .. but never seen a Craftsman socket crack

I heard two loud cracks and I went like "uhmmm that was some LOUD "click" from torquing down uhmmm NOT !!!"

 

I've carried out the torque to 120 ftlb job. Yep! All six bolts moved

Mark.

 

does anyone know when GM started using triangle brackets, what the part numbers are? and where do they go?

 

my 83 had the triangle brackets...

 

they started using them in 82...... lol



they're on the Z28s, and some optioned cars... its mentioned in a book i have about designing the 82 camaro, but i honestly forgot what the criteria for them is...

 

i just went out and checked mine and they all needed a little to get to 120 f/lb's
my 82 v6 has the triangle braces but is missing one
should i get one???

THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY

good find

 

so thats what that popping noise is?!!

its been driving me nuts.

i guess ill check it this weekend.

and why isnt this a sticky???

 

and does the car have to be on jackstands?

or can i use my ramps?

 

at first i thought this post was about the trans crossmember .. but i can clearly see that it is not... i am still a lil confused as to where you guys are talkin about!! Now im worrried i have a 91 rs 3.1 does this still pertain to me?? if so ill go look right away.,.,., please some one let me know right away
Thanks.......

 

So, would the bolt holding the x-member to the subframe count as one of the 'missing bolts' discussed? I noticed a while back that I'm missing one. Guess I should check all of them.
On that bolt hole, it looks like there's a threaded bushing inside the subframe. Any ideas on that?

 

so how many people actualy checked and found these bolts loose and did tightening them help the noise?

 

I tightened them all on my 86K 89 Formula and my GF's 83K 89 RS Both cars were torqued properly. No tightening required.

 

I had a 83 with one of those bolts missing. I was under the car putting a starter on and thought "hey, there should be a bolt here!!!" I went to the pick and pull and got one and it went right in.

I have not thought about it since then, but now I have another 3rd gen so I need to check mine.
Thanks

 

Everything mentioned above is tight on my Formula.......still the popping noise.......!!!!!

 

So I checked mine....and it still does it just the same. I've replaced struts, strut mounts and a few tie rods so that's not the problem. What I did tonight:

-Checked 2 18mm bolts around the A frame and they were tight on each side.
-Checked the A frame bolts and they were tight.
-Checked 3 15mm bolts on a triangle piece on each side. The two bolts on each side that connected to that K-member were lose so I tightened them up, the third bolt off on the point end of the triangle was tight.

I just drove and it still does it. Did I miss some bolts, or is it something else?

 

Does anyone know torque specs/thread size/pitch on the bolts that hold the triangular braces on? Mine are very stripped where they mount to the K member, but the bolt to the unibody looks good. Or should I just weld the suckers to the K member? I don't see why not.
These bolts are really fine pitched, I don't see how they could be doing their job and actually torqued down. They look like trim screws!

Also torque specs on the sway bar bolts that hold the frame mount bushing on?

Thank you guys for the tips! I think I fixed part of a problem that I've been hunting for a good while. Looks like the whole right front of my car was loose.

 

I warned about this issue 9 months ago when the thread was about strange noises. I guess nobody read that one.

 

And Preloader warned everyone 8 years ago.