This is an e-mail I had back from a company in the UK. I know what I'll be doing when I win the lottery I asked about retaining my IROC rims.

Yes we can supply you with a brake kit for your Camaro, we also do a complete handling kit if you are interested!
If you want to retain your 16" rims the choice of kits is restricted to the 304x32 993 Carrera set up, but with 17" to play with we can offer you the 32x32 993 Bi-turbo kit for front & rear.

for 15/16" rims w/ min. 345 mm ID Porsche 993 Carrera 4-piston-aluminium callipers, 36/44 mm piston dia.
Porsche 993 Carrera rotors, 304 x 32 mm cross vented with cast-in holes
Porsche 993 Carrera genuine pad set for street use ( 62,5 cm2 )
custom adapters for a.m. callipers, CNC machined from highest grade steel alloy customer brake bells for a.m. rotors, CNC machined from highest grade aluminium alloy custom stainless steel coated PTFE lines for front & rear

price: complete kit including all needed parts £1400 + vat (£1645.00)
(+ £500 refundable deposit on exchange modified uprights if fitted by anyone
other than ourselves.)
Fitting cost £200 per axle.

All 993 callipers are available in Red or Black, 996 in Red only, complete with mov'it scripting

These kits use genuine new Porsche parts, and are German TUV approved. The rotors are forged complete with their unique ventilation system, the only machining they undergo is surface grinding, eliminating stress risers, and making them very durable under heavy use. (very high resistance to cracking & distortion).
Coupled with the Porsche 4 piston aluminium callipers system, they guarantee high braking forces, with reduced braking distances, and "Fade Free"repeated high speed braking.
These brake have been developed for heavy street cars, not lightweight race cars, so they are equally effective on high performance cars, as well as heavy high security vehicles. Developed for high performance road use, they will give you confidence to use your cars full performance on both road &
track. Fitting is a straight forward job for a competent auto engineer as the kits come ready to bolt on with all necessary fittings. Fitting time around 2 hours per axle. NOTE: Some light machining may be necessary to the vehicles calliper mounting points, in some applications

Delivery is Ex Factory - please allow 28 days from order date for stockitems. Terms of trading are full payment with order.

Food for thought!

 

About ~$2000 ($1960 I think if I remember the conversion correctly; it's been a while) for the brakes from a porsche? Doesn't sound to bad. I'm interested.

 

Sounds interesting for those wanting to go that type of route.

Unfortunately, the conversion has a few soft points:

Porsche replacement parts are absolutely rediculously expensive and can only be found at Porsche dealers.

Price of the kit is almost 2 times what a Baer kit costs.

No factory Porsche can outstop a thirdgen with an $1100 Baer Track kit, so it won't work as good as it claims.

Absolutely no machining is neccessary with a Baer kit, they do it all for you.

Here's a track kit pic for you:

 

i'm afraid i'm gonna have to disagree. this is Porche's 996 parts, not your run of the mill boxter stuff. There's an LS1 guy with those that lives in Germany, He says he'll out brake anything on the street. Porche stuff can be had from more places than the dealer.. for the money there is no better pad than EBC Green Stuff. Also the rotors are availible about twenty minutes from me at Archer Racing. Go get a Road Racing mag and you'll find porche parts all day long.

 

Is that (1400 +1645) kit four all four wheels or for just the fronts??

Thanks,
Jesse

 

I think it is the front only on the 16" set up.

Porsche brakes are incredible they wil stop a Porsche from 60 mph in 2.3 secs!!! Also you don't need to buy from a main dealer, over here anyway, Porsche parts can be bought very cheap from a company called Euro Car Parts.

 

blimey!

 

I definitely agree that Porsche parts are engineered very well, its what the company's reputation rests, which is definitely enviable in the automotive world.

But being a cynic like I am, claims are kaka; I want hard proof, especially when the aftermarket is now flooded with aftermarket parts (whether they are OEM conversions or true aftermarket). For example, Porsche claimed the 911 had a top speed of 174mph with the 300hp engine, but most magazines could barely get it up to 170. Now they upgraded the power to 320hp just to compete with the base Corvette. It seems like the Z06 Vette is almost an equal to the TT in everything but price and prestige - and gets better mileage too. So in other words, I don't believe until either I see it personally or it comes from a reputatable source.

If a LS1 dude is making that claim, then he is pretty typical of the average yahoo in the US who drops $30k and hits the track after the spring thaw. The car may or may not be the best braking street 4th gen, but put the same parts on a third gen and it would be even better.

I also love how some claims are done in units that no one else uses: 60-0 in 2.3 seconds - who cares? what distance did it need to stop - that is the normal test.

Just defending the American aftermarket and cars in general.

Can a 911 stop better from 60 in 105 feet or less out of the factory? The Baer Track kit can, FYI.

 

Paul, what is this? I didn't attack the American car world.. ? Why are you getting all "Corvettes can do this.." with me?

Also 60-0 in 2.3 secs means a hell of a lot more to me than 105 yards. You can also judge everything you need to know from that, if you wanted to work out distance it can be done but whats the point?It is something the vast majority can relate to, including me. Also the source is EVO magazine, possibly the best source for anything in the performance automotive World over here.

The maths can be worked out.. just not by me

 

ZZ,

I don't mean to bust your chops, just to open eyes that may not have seen otherwise.

I did the math for you:

60-0 in 2.3 seconds is 101ft, 4-5 feet better than any tested production car, average deceleration of 38.3fps or about 1.18g.

Found a road test that gave 70-0 distance of 160 feet, average deceleration of 33.0fps or about 1.02g.

Now, if the 70-0 deceleration is at the same rate as the 60-0 deceleration (33.0fps), I come up with 117 feet, not bad, but 16 full feet worse than the claim based on time. Sounds like BS to me.

Considering every car mag in the US measures braking in feet, I can understand how people can say "wow, 2.3 seconds!" Meanwhile, even I had to break out a college physics book to get the formula.

Now, I also have a new Hi-Tech mag and their Yellow Bird ran 70-0 in 123 feet with road race tires and PF pads, 37 feet better than the Porsche could. The kit looks like the Track kit with the Eradispeed rotors (ran 145 feet or so with the stock pads). Considering that the Eradispeeds could only reduce the distance 5 feet (if at all), we come up with deceleration of 41.2fps, or 1.25g, a bit too high for average tires, but the tires tested were street legal treaded Nittos. Plugging in the 41.2fps gives up 2.05 seconds and a distance of 94 feet from 60mph.

Now, what would the distance be if the car had 4 or 6 piston Alcons with the 13.5" Alcon rotors? Probably around 90 feet on those special street tires. That guy in Germany is full of it.

Would someone please be kind enough to check my math?

Sounds like Porsche hooked in those suckers in the Road race Mags.

 

I can only speak from experience but ive got a Baer racing set up all round and the difference between this and stock is unbelievable.
Im not saying its better than the Porsche deal but it does exactly what it says,you can fit it easily in a day with no modifications and all the claims of improved braking were much better than i could have imagined.

cheers
powermite

 

if you can lock your brakes at ANY speed and hold them ..that's all the brakes you need for a one shot stop ... no matter what PADS ROTORS or CALPIERS you have .... none will make your car stop shorter or "faster" ..as Paul points out ... TIRES will increase your stopping power and decrease your stopping distance better than
anything you can do the the brakes , till you reach the point where your brakes can no longer lock the new tires .. the benny
of 1LE is the ablitity to do that stop OVER and OVER without fade ... not to mention modulation and feel ... the PORCH (int) setup will allow you to do that even better ..but if you can't make 1LE's fade ..your wasting money on better stuff :\ ... it's like
trying to make more HP when you can spin your tires at any speed ???? why bother when you can't hook it up to the pavement anyway ..................

TVP

 

You're assuming decelleration is uniform during braking from all speeds.

TVP is completely right. Money spent to eliminate a problem you don't have is wasted.

 

TVP,

That was exactly what I was getting at, the ability to put more clamping force on a rotor does not mean better stopping distances unless you can modulate on the edge of lockup (like ABS does). Honestly, even if I slam the pedal to the floor with the Baer Track kit, it won't lock up (dry pavement), it just stops. If I had the 4 piston calipers it would lock up and slide and not help worth a damn, just lightening my pocket. Considering the 1LE and the Track system are almost the same 12" vs. 13" drilled rotors and there is no fade under very punishing driving, I can't imagine a street car that would need more braking power without the rubber to accompany it. Considering the car the system is on is a low 12 second car and works like a champ, it probably is the best bang for the buck for a third gen car.

Aperion,

I did assume the same deceleration rate for the two examples because the brakes are prety consistent in deceleration from about 100mph on down (according to Baer's test). I definitely agree that extra money spent (beyond the $1100 for the Track system) is a waste unless your car is really fast and is raced at 100% all the damn time, which would not be a street car.

I just remembered a test of a Formula Vee or some other midget Indy car clone. The thing stopped from 70mph in 98 feet or so. But it did have large race slicks, downforce producing spoilers, and weighed only 1500lbs. So 123 feet ain't too shabby for a $1100 kit with race tires.

 

Paul you are a naughty BOY..............! LOL!
The math is ok!?

Well the Topic was on this board already!
Steve i promise to keep my language clean this time!

3 things :
Does someone have the weight of that "KIT"?
Can someone pls supply us with a test report ?
We do accept any Mag with more than 500 issues!
Can someone post theUS Porsche dealer price for a set of 996 Rotors!No Aftermarket pls!
We ordered at Thunder racing!
Nice people! Can someone explain why we order in the USA ?
Pay shipping and Taxes and stuff else!
Ship the Kit to Germany and think we have a sec rate kit?

HAHAHA!!!!

Paul we can supply the other side of the cake if you wanna know more!
I miss more Paul´s in here who look at the other side of the coin and then spend it!

 

GM,

I think there should be more of me too, makes the board more interesting and gets others to think instead of follow (blindly).

Get the Damn Baer kit! $1100 plus shipping!

If someone wasn't out there challenging (mostly bothering in my case) others, then there would be a lot more slow third gens (or at least poorly stopping ones) out there.

Long live Porsche! (gives the ZO6 owners out there something expensive with a turbo to pick on).

 

I highly doubt it. Porsches weigh much less then thirdgens, that’s a distinct advantage already. High end Porsches are well known for out handling and out breaking anything in its class. Porsches have some awesome brake setups. I want to see real test results to prove it.

 

Have faith, brotha!

Baer's Track System on a GM car and 16" rubber (Monte/GN/Third gen) 60mph to 0 in 105 feet. Same stopping distance as the ZR1 Corvette stock with less rubber. Typical Porsche 911 is about 155 feet. Weight has very little to do with braking distance - brake power and rubber does - especially front rubber, 16" thirdgen wheels hold wider tires than the best 911 from the factory (17" rubber is no contest).

Put that in your water pipe and smoke it!

 

Ummm any american cars will never brake as well as a Porsche unless using Porsche components. Get your *** head out of your inbred farmer car craft mag and stop watching nascar. Watch some real motorsports GT1, GT2, Lemans and F1. Then come back to the table with your tractor....

 

right ... yeah .. the porch is really kicking the CORVETTE's *** .. right ... guess that explains why they win all those Leman's races in the 4 cylinder classes !!

 

Lesse now, the 911 is in the GT catgegory and the C5R is in the GTS category. Who's your uberdog now?
If I remember right, the last Porsche that took an outright win at the Daytona 24 Hours was the 956/962

GT-1 died a couple of years ago, now it's LMP's (Audi, Dallara, Panoz) Yes there is a 911-GT2, but it's a GT car, which is the smaller class, after LMP and GTS. Watch GTS and you will see Corvettes and Saleens, and a Ferarri 575. Porsche hasn't been near an open-wheel car since the March/Porsches of the late '70s.

They are not the all-dominating motorsport powerhouse you wish they were.

Build me a Thirdgen that costs as much as any 911, and I bet it'll stop like it's made out of Velcro.
Forget Porsche brakes, I want Lockheeds! (C5R)

 

Just thought you might want to hear from my experiance.
The last track I was at Sebring (155+mph speed brake zones in a 450hp 3rd gen) the American Iron (not the series, (camaros/stangs) with Bears were warping rotors (my track set too, just been bedded in the day before).
Never seen so many rotors laying around in the pits LOL, people saying to cryo (when new)and retrue will stop that or go just slotted. My day was ended after a 30min long session. The Porsches could out brake anyone all day long (4 hr session). The magazines only test straight line distance, were a Porsche shines is braking into a trun , we American iron have to use alot of straight to haul us down were the Porsches can brake deeper into a turn due too lighter weight and the weight bias to the rear, they are more neutral under braking.
GT2 & 3's are very very fast track cars...you'll need close to 600hp (that can be put to the ground early) to keep up/pass. Please don't go to the track thinking your going to out brake these guys....hope theres a run off area when you try. Use the long straights, suck that guys helment against his window net when passing like I did to my work buddy's 911 LOL, John you reading this. I made a remark about bear brakes in the past...got hammered buy this board....go to my nasa forum I get praised & rallied (the difference between racers and street guys I guess).

 

F=MA, the same applies with decelleration soo A = F/M. The less wieght you have the less force that has to be applied to the brakes and inturn the less force your tires have to exert onto the blacktop to make you stop. Weight plays a huge roll in braking. The reason porsches use smaller front tires is to induce understeer at the limit to prevent their over confident owners from swinging themselves into the median. They compensate this by putting on stiff as hell front shocks with anti-dive geometry in the front end so that the car does not nose dive under braking allowing more braking force to be proportioned over the huge rear tires.

Just to give you an example of how much it maters, a stock 93 GT brakes like crap becuase it is crap. But the exact same setup in a Factory Five Cobra that wieghts in at a cool 1 ton (uses a fox body as donor parts) and the braking distance is improved all the way down to 110 feet from 60 (or something absolutely crazy like that) on the stock ford POS setup.

I have to agree though, bang for your buck, porsche is a hard sell for me.

BTW R&T got these #s
2000 911 turbo 60-0/80-0 119/208
2002 Z06 60-0/80-0 118/212
2002 M3 60/80 112/200

 

Nevermind

 

Wow, aren't we an easy one to get riled up.

First of all, just becuase it says Porsche or is used on a Porsche doesn't automatically mean it is better. Reputation isn't worth squat in my experience - action and results are everything.

Car Craft and other hot-rodding mags are the reason why there are so many 8-11 second "old school" cars out there. From what I remeber, no German iron is featured because it hasn't earned the right to be featured and earing is learning, my boy.

I personally hate NASCAR - not the cars, but the concept - too boring. However, any one of those Nascar cars can outrun anything that comes out of the Fatherland - did you know that undlimited NASCAR race cars can touch 240 with almost 3g's of cornering? You wouldn't know because you are slightly slow in the mental department and quick in the bad attitude dept.

I watch all types of motorsports racing, but I have almost no use for race cars that cost millions and can't even be remotely driven on the street.

Oh yeah, my "tractor" would hand most (not every one, but close) of the POS coming out of Duetschland its a$$ and its an everyday car that I built myself.

I appologize to the other members, I just needed to rant a little here...

 

As much as I prefer F-bodies, and particularily thirdgens, over anything ever built, I really have to agree with those in the Porsche camp here.... Anybody that spends time around/on road courses will quickly learn that you don't follow Prosche's into the corners (as mentioned above) - unless you are also in a Porsche and are a competent Porsche driver. This is common knowledge. But it is a package deal and the 911 itself, along with its awesome brakes, is better suited to road racing than an F-body, so no surprise there. But even the guys I know with Z06s wouldn't even attempt to out-brake a Porsche (all things such as driver ability assumed equal for the given application).

Prosches use Brembo brakes from the factory. There is much more spent on R&D and materials with the Brembo parts than on things like the PBRs. They just plain have more performance built into them by design with things like one-piece (Monoblocs) forged AL calipers and staggered piston size to optimise clamping force considered. But they do indeed cost quite a bit more and for most of us are not worth it with respect to bang for the buck - and also the ability to use that much brake. But if you want to go all out and have the best brakes around and think/know you will actually use them, look no further than Brembo....

my $.02

 

Pbr brakes and the Brembo brakes I would consider equal in a 1 time stop. But the porsche brakes really shine when you brake repeatedly, they don't give up under severe abuse.

 

your doing the math all wrong, chart your math its a starght line. in realitly its a curve. urs is saying that if im doin 120 in the tt that i cn stop in 4.6sec, not gonna happen, and if if i'm doin 30 in 1.15sec. think about it takes longe to slowdown at high speeds. my .02

 

Good point. No way is braking going to be a linear operation.

 

Exactly, but trying to calculate the non-linear braking of a car is a total nightmare. Manufacturers use supercomputers to simulate those type of things. Sometimes the computations do not translate into the results expected. Like the fact that there isn't much difference between braking of a 2 piston oem system and a 6 piston race system on street tires.

I straightlined it to make it easier to understand and calculate. Rest assured that a car can pull more braking g's at a lower speed than a higher one. Motorcycles are the opposite because they have aerodynamic braking due to their crappy aerodynamics.

BTW, Alcon brakes are equal to Brembos and are almost overkill on any car that isn't raced on a road course for long stretches.

 

Paul you made us laugh!
STOOOPPPP fighting people that run 17sec Fbodies on the strip with lg4 engines that could stop with a scate board rubber brake!

Most of them will neverrrr own this "..........." Kit!


Let´s get back to real world!

"GM" aka SLP , also used the Brembo on the Firehawk!
How many cars were sold........?Lets make it biggggggg 30!
How is that going to calculate to the average american joe?

The Brembo kit is kind of used on every europian car that is going to a power hungry car buyer market over here!

Porsche started now companies like Audi,Alpha and others are taking over....

In our car mags over here you can find Brembo kit ads for the VW Golfs for 1000 euros used!

Willwood could have had that market in the states, but kind left that market to a company called Baer which kinda came out of nowhere!

Till they showed up AP ,Willwood and Jfz where brands known to the us crafter!

Calling Wilwood we had the feeling that they don´t think that there is a market for a 3rd gen kit!
Some backyard fans are selling brake kits out of there garage and people are buying them!
Anything wrong? YES!
A failure with that brake sys. , somebody gets killed:::::lets make it a little boy.........and you find yourself in jail!

Take that disco in chicago...nobody from the city took care till the fire broke out!
Now that there are people dead, the media already burned the owner!!!!!!!

If a big Company like Wilwood puts out a "KIT" they´ll have to make sure its really "working"! They can loose everything if not......thanks mr nader!

Why would a us crafter(unless megadollar) buy a brembokit when you have Baer around the corner!

In several posts we called people to gather for a GP with Thunder!
David a real good salesperson can if we are enough run one!

We do have the feeling that someone behind the curtain is pushing the Brembo "topic" though!

ANYONE out there with MONEY that wants a BAER KIT mail us we are always ready for a GP!< and we do pay douple before that stuff comes to our door in germany!THat should make you think!

WWW:CAMARO-FIREBIRD.DE The biggest german us car brand club!

 

German,

You are right... Sometimes I like to give people a hard time....

JFZ is probably out of business and Wilwood is probably a small operation, so Baer slid in there very nicely.

I think everyone would agree that $1,000 is an acceptable price for upgraded brakes on a $5,000 car. $3,000 is just too much unless you need it (and who does that doesn't race?).

Do you have something against 17 seconds LG4s?

 

IMO a person w/ a $3000 daloor who wants to upgrade brakes has some issues, take that 1k and put exhaust on the car,
i have cross drilled rotors and new front brakes and my car stops pretty d@mn dood.

 

Bringing this back from the dead because I found some new info. Guy over at LS1.com was selling a Porsche GT3 (996) front brake kit (used) and gave the link to the manufacturer. As we all know, if it can fit on a 4th gen then it can fit on a 3rd gen too. This kit is sold by Pro Speed Motorsports. This kit is for the front only. It uses 13" rotors so I assume 17" wheels are a minimum requirement. Check it out here:

(copy and paste) http://www.prospeedmotorsport.com/brake_kits(f-body).htm

Price: $1650 inc Shipping but w/o pads
Porsche 996tt/GT3 4 piston monobloc calipers
Porsche 996tt/GT3 330 x 34 mm (13" x 1.3") cross-drilled rotors (re-drilled to fit the F body cars)
Prospeed Steel caliper adapters
Prospeed Aluminum Hub adapters
Prospeed Aluminum Rotor spacers
Prospeed Aluminum Wheel spacers
Prospeed Stainless Steel brake
Prospeed GS610 Ultra High Performance Brake Fluid
ARP Wheel Studs
Complete Mounting hardware
Installation Instructions

Just letting you guys know about this kit. Not saying its better than anything else out right now, but there is it. The honest truth is that we will never get a real world 3rd gen Big Brake comparison because nobody is willing to fund a test car and install each system and test it. Its just not gonna happen, sorry. So it comes down to which kit YOU think will suit your needs best (no need for a pissing contest). I would say this kit is for someone who needs track racing performance (overkill for street). This kit is comparable to Spohn's Pro Series NASCAR kit ($1595) and the Baer Claw Pro kit ($2375 + $150 core). Keep in mind this is for 4th gens, so the spindle/hub midifications will need to be done.

 

Posting this as a joke. Just to give you an idea of how extreme a Porsche can be with the right parts. I dont think you'll see any 3rd gens with $1100 track kits doing this.



Not saying your car will do that if you buy that kit, but just something to think about.

 

lmao reminds me of those cab over trucks coming to a stop too quick and falling over.

 

I spoke with Micheal from prospeed many times while I was designing my porsche front brake kit, he is a very nice guy and very knowledgeable about the porsche brake parts. After speaking with him I decide to use the calipers from the 993tt instead of the 996 calipers simply because there are way more choices for pads and rotors. I spend alot of time on fourth gen boards doing research since they usually have a better selection of parts to pick form and the porsche brakes are a favorite of the 4th gen crowd. I am very impressed with the brakes they are by far the best setup I have ever driven

 

Yeah Micheal came to an MNFBC monthly meeting last year and gave us a real nice presentation on what he has to offer. Specifically he gave us the hard facts on brake fluids and what the one he made (was making at the time - it was still under development) would be like. Nice guy and definately knows his Porsche stuff....

That being said, and as was eluded to, not everything from the 4th gen will bolt up on ours... namely the caliper adapter brackets and the whole hub/rotor/spacer setup.

 

Brakes aside, that is an amazing tire that can grip like that under such loading.

 

 

And the engine is in the back, too!!

 

heh.... i have a gokart that'll stop faster then either of them.... including the stoppie porsche.


anyhoo i think everyone missed 3 major points.

1. these are street cars. with street tires. so arguing about it on the edge just means you're ignorant to everything else. i dont care what kit it is, i just know that when i go around the corner on the hwy and i need to stop, i like to stop before i hit stuff. currently, my brakes start to fade from 110 to 0. (stock 3rdgen disc/drum non-1LE). my brakes are holding me back, not my tires. once you exceed the threshhold of the tires, its all about feel and modulation.. how close can you hold this to the edge... and frankly, im willing to bet noone posting in this thread will be able to hold either significantly over the other. its a skill thing. unless you have ABS.. and well... im pretty sure im the only 3rdgen with that.

2. im pretty sure the other kits arnt TUV approved. not a issue in the US, but elsewhere in the world, that means everything. is the bear kit approved?


edit: i had a 3rd point, i just forgot what it was.

 

looks kinda photoshopped to me.....

 

how so, looks legit to me.

 

just look at the bottom of the car, the lines and pavement look altered.

 

Feel free to check out the website of the track/course where these pics were taken. You make your own determination if these pics are edited, but considering they are not trying to sell anything, I dont see any reason for them to edit the pics. I am 100% sure they are un-edited.

http://www.targa.org.au

 

in the right conditions (autoX), ive seen cars like neons and geos lift rear wheels...

no reason that car with slicks couldnt do it.

 

dont know if this was brought up, but braking also involves tires. If you have bald tires with 6 piston calipers and cross drilled rotors, you probably wont stop as soon as if you had 4 pistons with hi-po stickey tires. Just a thought. I plan on getting the Baer kit when the money comes.

 

Mr- Dude - you said:

Do you have ABS on your thirdgen? What year did the setup come out of if you do?

And actually, have you seen Fatal88's car? He has ABS.

 

well, he also has the whole front clip off a ls1 fbody...