TPIS MiniRam ... trying to set the record straight
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From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
TPIS MiniRam ... trying to set the record straight
I finally got around to typing up a quick explanation of why I think the MiniRam kicks ****...
First off, I want to indicate that I had the stock Large Tube Runner setup. I was running AS&M Large Tube Runners, a TPIS Big Mouth Intake, and Ported stock plenum with a 52mm TB. Eventually I switched to AS&M Semi-Siamesed Large Tube runners. Then, finally, I switched to the MiniRam. So - I've pretty much been through it all. I am seriously happy with the MiniRam.
Before I get 'on my high horse' let me talk a little bit about the LT1 guys. Have you ever heard an LT1 guy who has completed many modifications complain of not having enough torque (I’m not talking about 2.73 rear gear equipped auto LT1s either)? Well, I haven't ... and, let me tell you, I know MANY modded LT1 guys. These guys have CRAZY torque and pull low 60ft times (1.5x, 1.6x) easily. Have you ever been in a car that pulls 1.5x or 1.6x 60ft times? Let me tell you ... that is some INSANE torque. So, the 'rumor' about the MiniRam taking away A LOT of torque is exactly that ... a rumor. The real question is will you lose any lowend
torque when swapping from LTRs to the MiniRam and, if so, how much?
Well, yes, you will lose some lowend torque. I went from a 1.71 60ft time to a 1.77 60ft time. But, let me turn your head in a different direction here. Does the lowend torque that you will lose matter?
Well, look at my 60ft times. Truth be known .... heck no. I lost only 0.06 seconds in the first 60ft. Well, I gained 0.3 and 3mph in the quarter.
You reach a point where you have SOOO much bottom end torque that it is absolutely LUDICROUS. So, I swapped from the AS&M SS-LTR setup to the MiniRam (lost zero torque when swapping from standard LTRs to SS-LTRs). I no longer have LUDICROUS torque ... I have absolutely REDICULOUS torque. What's the difference in LUDICROUS torque as compared to absolutely REDICULOUS torque? Heh heh ... not much ... you can't plant either of those on the street so it doesn't matter. I have had both setups so this is coming from someone that knows what they are talking about.
As we all know, the key to a GREAT running car is balance. Balance is the key. It is what separates the good cars from the great cars. Well, just like the LTR intake setup demands that you utilize an exhaust and a driveline selection that complements it ... the use of the MiniRam also demands that you utilize a particular type of exhaust and driveline in order to achieve a balanced setup. I have preached this over and over again to sooooo many people but few 'get it'. Do you want a fast car? Well, you CANNOT concentrate on just torque. Torque will give up before the end of the quarter mile. Only raw horsepower will get you to the end of the quarter mile fast. Well, the next argument that I hear from LTR supporters is the whole 'street race' argument. I hear .... 'Tim, your car may be faster in the 1/4 mile but I bet you my LTR setup would beat your car on the street'. That is when I begin laughing. Can you hear me laugh? I am laughing because here is where my comment about reaching a point where you have too much torque comes into play. If I cannot plant all of my MiniRam torque with all of the traction mods that I have ... then, I am positive that an LTR guy cannot plant all the torque that they have. Dude - I am running BFG drag radials full-time on the street at no higher than 20psi, LCA relocation brackets (lowest setting), solid bushing LCAs, solid bushing panhard rod, welded SFCs, a solid aftermarket Torque Arm set to -4 degrees, and airbags
in the rear springs (5psi driver and 15psi passenger). Even with all of these traction mods I can spin the tires through all of first and all of second on the street ... just smokin' them up. Imagine if I had a regular street tires with stock suspension. Need I say that the MiniRam has plenty of torque?! Furthermore, once I am done spinning my tires my engine setup can PULL LIKE A *****. The races that I have had with TPI guys go like this ....
Green light. We both spin. I wave bye-bye ... and, I KEEP waving bye-bye.
OK, back to the idea of a balanced setup. There are 2 big keys to the MiniRam. The most important is gearing your car appropriately. Just throw in a Precision Industries Vigilante 2800 stall with AT LEAST 3.23's and now you have blistering torque. Plus, not only do you have the blistering torque but you also have upper RPM power. It is the best of both worlds. Those individuals who you talk to about not having bottom end torque with a MiniRam really don't know how to balance their car. THAT is the key - balancing your mods so that they work together and not separately. They should do more research because they are ill informed. The second key to the MiniRam is tuning. The stock TPI chip is trash for the MiniRam. A custom PROM is definitely needed if you want a balanced fuel curve. Basically, choosing a MiniRam means that you will have to plan the rest of your mods to support UPPER RPM power. That means a damn good set of heads ... like AFR190s. It also means a very good flowing exhaust. However, even with my low flowing SLP 1-5/8" headers, 2-1/4" Y-pipe, and flowmaster catback, I have run 12.2@112mph. Imagine what happens when I get my Hooker Long Tube headers installed with a Mufflex 3" Y and 4" catback. I'll be in the 11's while still running the stock bottom end of the motor. Now try that with a Large Tube Runner setup :-)
OK. We have now established that the MiniRam produces plenty of torque when combined with the correct balanced setup.
The next argument that I often hear is ....
"But, I don't want to run a high stall torque converter ... I heard that they are street unfriendly"
I laugh again. Can you hear me laughing? The key here is a quality converter. Don't expect to get a cheap **** converter and expect it to be street friendly. However, if you get a quality converter like a PI or a Yank then you will be rewarded with a higher stall converter that is extremely street friendly. Plus - our 700R4s have a torque converter clutch lockup. That means that the tranny will allow a full mechanical coupling of the tranny to the engine once a certain speed is reached. No slippage. I can honestly say that the PI Vig 2800 stall converter was one of the BEST mods that I have ever done. In fact, my car was MORE streetable with the 2800 stall Vig than with the stock converter. I am sooo impressed that I am taking advantage of Precision Industries FREE stall change and sending the converter back to PI to have them INCREASE the stall speed (looking for mind boggling 1.5x 60ft times). So, I laugh to those people who try to tell me that higher stalls are unstreetable. A 3200 and lower stall converter from a QUALITY torque converter company (NOT B&M, etc) will be extremely streetable. Just choose a quality converter. The manual guys need not even worry about this
The next argument that I often hear is ....
"But, my car is a daily driver and I am concerned about fuel mileage ... I don't want to run steep gears"
I laugh again. Ummmm, then don't go looking for performance if you are interested in gas mileage. Buy a Toyota Tercel, a Ford Echo, or a Chevy Cavalier. My car gets about 18 mpg with 3.73s. That's darn good in my opinion and I could probably get better gas mileage if I focused my PROM tuning around highway mileage. Furthermore, I could easily run 3.42's and get the same performance. Since 3.42's were provided from the factory with 5-speed thirdgens then I would assume that you would get similar gas mileage with the 3.42's installed. Given my performance level I will probably have to switch to 3.42’s soon anyhow.
The next argument that I often hear is ...
"But, the MiniRam is too much money"
I laugh again. Let's see here ....
QUALITY extruded LTRs (AS&M or TPIS) = $400
Edelbrock Base Manifold = $350
Plenum porting = $50
Total = $800
or
MiniRam = $900
Braided SS line and fittings to attach to fuel rail = $100
Total = $1000
Ummm ... you are arguing over $200? A throttle body costs more than that. A camshaft costs more than that. Whatever. If someone is arguing over $200 then they shouldn't even be having this discussion to begin with. I am definitely not rich (I wish I was but that is a different story) and I can see how rediculous a $200 price difference is when you are seeking serious performance. If you want to cut corners then feel free to do so. But, I want to go fast. Go ahead and price out a high
flowing *extruded* SuperRam setup and you'll see that you'll be paying a hell of a lot more and still not have the upper RPM performance that the MiniRam gives.
The next argument that I often hear is ...
"But, I like my long runner setup"
I laugh again. The long runner setup contains 4 pieces and 32 bolts (not including TB or connections). The MiniRam is one piece and 12 bolts. I have A LOT of experience working on the long runner setup. Let me tell you, the MiniRam is a breath of fresh air to work on. I can swap injectors in under 25 minutes. I can remove the entire intake in 30 minutes with absolute ease. Try that with a long runner setup Furthermore, with the MiniRam there is a much smaller chance of vacuum leaks and stripped threads.
The next argument that I often hear is ...
"But, I like the LOOKS of the long runner setup"
Cool. That is a great. I LOVE the looks of the TPI setup too.
The last argument I often hear is …
"I need to remain emissions compliant".
Well, if you live in state that looks under the hood then keep the long runner setup. But, if you live in a state that doesn’t look under the hood then don’t worry about not having EGR. You’ll still pass the IM240 treadmill test.
So, in conclusion, if you like the looks or live in a state that looks under then hood then keep the long runner setup. If you want performance then go for the MiniRam OR go for something like the new GM RamJet. I am definitely not a TPIS advocate. Actually, to be honest, I would rather not deal with them. But, who else makes and intake similar to the MiniRam? The new GM RamJet I believe comes DARN close so you might want to start there,
BTW, just for reference, I ran 12.5s@108mph with the long runner setup. Swapping to the MiniRam, installing bigger injectors, and using front skinnies with no swaybar got me 12.2s@112mph ... and, my setup is out of balance right now with this dinky exhaust and weak camshaft.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
First off, I want to indicate that I had the stock Large Tube Runner setup. I was running AS&M Large Tube Runners, a TPIS Big Mouth Intake, and Ported stock plenum with a 52mm TB. Eventually I switched to AS&M Semi-Siamesed Large Tube runners. Then, finally, I switched to the MiniRam. So - I've pretty much been through it all. I am seriously happy with the MiniRam.
Before I get 'on my high horse' let me talk a little bit about the LT1 guys. Have you ever heard an LT1 guy who has completed many modifications complain of not having enough torque (I’m not talking about 2.73 rear gear equipped auto LT1s either)? Well, I haven't ... and, let me tell you, I know MANY modded LT1 guys. These guys have CRAZY torque and pull low 60ft times (1.5x, 1.6x) easily. Have you ever been in a car that pulls 1.5x or 1.6x 60ft times? Let me tell you ... that is some INSANE torque. So, the 'rumor' about the MiniRam taking away A LOT of torque is exactly that ... a rumor. The real question is will you lose any lowend
torque when swapping from LTRs to the MiniRam and, if so, how much?
Well, yes, you will lose some lowend torque. I went from a 1.71 60ft time to a 1.77 60ft time. But, let me turn your head in a different direction here. Does the lowend torque that you will lose matter?
Well, look at my 60ft times. Truth be known .... heck no. I lost only 0.06 seconds in the first 60ft. Well, I gained 0.3 and 3mph in the quarter.
You reach a point where you have SOOO much bottom end torque that it is absolutely LUDICROUS. So, I swapped from the AS&M SS-LTR setup to the MiniRam (lost zero torque when swapping from standard LTRs to SS-LTRs). I no longer have LUDICROUS torque ... I have absolutely REDICULOUS torque. What's the difference in LUDICROUS torque as compared to absolutely REDICULOUS torque? Heh heh ... not much ... you can't plant either of those on the street so it doesn't matter. I have had both setups so this is coming from someone that knows what they are talking about.
As we all know, the key to a GREAT running car is balance. Balance is the key. It is what separates the good cars from the great cars. Well, just like the LTR intake setup demands that you utilize an exhaust and a driveline selection that complements it ... the use of the MiniRam also demands that you utilize a particular type of exhaust and driveline in order to achieve a balanced setup. I have preached this over and over again to sooooo many people but few 'get it'. Do you want a fast car? Well, you CANNOT concentrate on just torque. Torque will give up before the end of the quarter mile. Only raw horsepower will get you to the end of the quarter mile fast. Well, the next argument that I hear from LTR supporters is the whole 'street race' argument. I hear .... 'Tim, your car may be faster in the 1/4 mile but I bet you my LTR setup would beat your car on the street'. That is when I begin laughing. Can you hear me laugh? I am laughing because here is where my comment about reaching a point where you have too much torque comes into play. If I cannot plant all of my MiniRam torque with all of the traction mods that I have ... then, I am positive that an LTR guy cannot plant all the torque that they have. Dude - I am running BFG drag radials full-time on the street at no higher than 20psi, LCA relocation brackets (lowest setting), solid bushing LCAs, solid bushing panhard rod, welded SFCs, a solid aftermarket Torque Arm set to -4 degrees, and airbags
in the rear springs (5psi driver and 15psi passenger). Even with all of these traction mods I can spin the tires through all of first and all of second on the street ... just smokin' them up. Imagine if I had a regular street tires with stock suspension. Need I say that the MiniRam has plenty of torque?! Furthermore, once I am done spinning my tires my engine setup can PULL LIKE A *****. The races that I have had with TPI guys go like this ....
Green light. We both spin. I wave bye-bye ... and, I KEEP waving bye-bye.
OK, back to the idea of a balanced setup. There are 2 big keys to the MiniRam. The most important is gearing your car appropriately. Just throw in a Precision Industries Vigilante 2800 stall with AT LEAST 3.23's and now you have blistering torque. Plus, not only do you have the blistering torque but you also have upper RPM power. It is the best of both worlds. Those individuals who you talk to about not having bottom end torque with a MiniRam really don't know how to balance their car. THAT is the key - balancing your mods so that they work together and not separately. They should do more research because they are ill informed. The second key to the MiniRam is tuning. The stock TPI chip is trash for the MiniRam. A custom PROM is definitely needed if you want a balanced fuel curve. Basically, choosing a MiniRam means that you will have to plan the rest of your mods to support UPPER RPM power. That means a damn good set of heads ... like AFR190s. It also means a very good flowing exhaust. However, even with my low flowing SLP 1-5/8" headers, 2-1/4" Y-pipe, and flowmaster catback, I have run 12.2@112mph. Imagine what happens when I get my Hooker Long Tube headers installed with a Mufflex 3" Y and 4" catback. I'll be in the 11's while still running the stock bottom end of the motor. Now try that with a Large Tube Runner setup :-)
OK. We have now established that the MiniRam produces plenty of torque when combined with the correct balanced setup.
The next argument that I often hear is ....
"But, I don't want to run a high stall torque converter ... I heard that they are street unfriendly"
I laugh again. Can you hear me laughing? The key here is a quality converter. Don't expect to get a cheap **** converter and expect it to be street friendly. However, if you get a quality converter like a PI or a Yank then you will be rewarded with a higher stall converter that is extremely street friendly. Plus - our 700R4s have a torque converter clutch lockup. That means that the tranny will allow a full mechanical coupling of the tranny to the engine once a certain speed is reached. No slippage. I can honestly say that the PI Vig 2800 stall converter was one of the BEST mods that I have ever done. In fact, my car was MORE streetable with the 2800 stall Vig than with the stock converter. I am sooo impressed that I am taking advantage of Precision Industries FREE stall change and sending the converter back to PI to have them INCREASE the stall speed (looking for mind boggling 1.5x 60ft times). So, I laugh to those people who try to tell me that higher stalls are unstreetable. A 3200 and lower stall converter from a QUALITY torque converter company (NOT B&M, etc) will be extremely streetable. Just choose a quality converter. The manual guys need not even worry about this
The next argument that I often hear is ....
"But, my car is a daily driver and I am concerned about fuel mileage ... I don't want to run steep gears"
I laugh again. Ummmm, then don't go looking for performance if you are interested in gas mileage. Buy a Toyota Tercel, a Ford Echo, or a Chevy Cavalier. My car gets about 18 mpg with 3.73s. That's darn good in my opinion and I could probably get better gas mileage if I focused my PROM tuning around highway mileage. Furthermore, I could easily run 3.42's and get the same performance. Since 3.42's were provided from the factory with 5-speed thirdgens then I would assume that you would get similar gas mileage with the 3.42's installed. Given my performance level I will probably have to switch to 3.42’s soon anyhow.
The next argument that I often hear is ...
"But, the MiniRam is too much money"
I laugh again. Let's see here ....
QUALITY extruded LTRs (AS&M or TPIS) = $400
Edelbrock Base Manifold = $350
Plenum porting = $50
Total = $800
or
MiniRam = $900
Braided SS line and fittings to attach to fuel rail = $100
Total = $1000
Ummm ... you are arguing over $200? A throttle body costs more than that. A camshaft costs more than that. Whatever. If someone is arguing over $200 then they shouldn't even be having this discussion to begin with. I am definitely not rich (I wish I was but that is a different story) and I can see how rediculous a $200 price difference is when you are seeking serious performance. If you want to cut corners then feel free to do so. But, I want to go fast. Go ahead and price out a high
flowing *extruded* SuperRam setup and you'll see that you'll be paying a hell of a lot more and still not have the upper RPM performance that the MiniRam gives.
The next argument that I often hear is ...
"But, I like my long runner setup"
I laugh again. The long runner setup contains 4 pieces and 32 bolts (not including TB or connections). The MiniRam is one piece and 12 bolts. I have A LOT of experience working on the long runner setup. Let me tell you, the MiniRam is a breath of fresh air to work on. I can swap injectors in under 25 minutes. I can remove the entire intake in 30 minutes with absolute ease. Try that with a long runner setup
Furthermore, with the MiniRam there is a much smaller chance of vacuum leaks and stripped threads.The next argument that I often hear is ...
"But, I like the LOOKS of the long runner setup"
Cool. That is a great. I LOVE the looks of the TPI setup too.
The last argument I often hear is …
"I need to remain emissions compliant".
Well, if you live in state that looks under the hood then keep the long runner setup. But, if you live in a state that doesn’t look under the hood then don’t worry about not having EGR. You’ll still pass the IM240 treadmill test.
So, in conclusion, if you like the looks or live in a state that looks under then hood then keep the long runner setup. If you want performance then go for the MiniRam OR go for something like the new GM RamJet. I am definitely not a TPIS advocate. Actually, to be honest, I would rather not deal with them. But, who else makes and intake similar to the MiniRam? The new GM RamJet I believe comes DARN close so you might want to start there,
BTW, just for reference, I ran 12.5s@108mph with the long runner setup. Swapping to the MiniRam, installing bigger injectors, and using front skinnies with no swaybar got me 12.2s@112mph ... and, my setup is out of balance right now with this dinky exhaust and weak camshaft.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: NY
Good read Traxion! Not that I have the mini-ram, but a friend of mines has a '94 Impala SS. He recently bought a new set of tires(275/40-17). So after he got them he wanted me 2 drive his car around the parking lot so he could see how they looked when rolling being that the stock size is 255/50s. Then he wanted me 2 drive by him fast so he could hear his flowmaster exhaust, no complaints from me, so I did it. Then he wanted me 2 do it again. Now I know how it feels 2 have a car hooked up and wanting 2 be able 2 see it rolling and not be able 2 since ur always the 1 driving it. So knowing that I decided 2 give him a show. I reved the engine a bit, nailed the gas and effortlessly laid a set of 40' BFG tracks. I didn't expect the car 2 take off like that. The LT1 is no joke, I can only imagine it in a F-Body. Torque loss is no problem, the HP takes over so quickly. My only gripe is that the mini-ram looks so puny in the engine bay of a 3rdGen, but I guess u can't have everything.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 968
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette, LA
Car: 1972 Corvette
I think it looks cool too.
http://firehawk.cmcmfg.com/~east/ste...d/DSC00002.JPG
Follow the link to see Zebra's MiniRam
I edited this so the picture was not so big per users request. Chuck
------------------
'91 Z28 Blue/Silver ZZ4/ZF6
335.9 RWHP 374.9 RWTQ
[This message has been edited by Chuck Everly (edited November 13, 2000).]
http://firehawk.cmcmfg.com/~east/ste...d/DSC00002.JPG
Follow the link to see Zebra's MiniRam
I edited this so the picture was not so big per users request. Chuck
------------------
'91 Z28 Blue/Silver ZZ4/ZF6
335.9 RWHP 374.9 RWTQ
[This message has been edited by Chuck Everly (edited November 13, 2000).]
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
From: Pineville, NC US
Car: An '87 Italian Retard Out Cruisin'
Engine: LS1 install in progress
Transmission: 4L60e
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt
This is just the post I wanted to hear! I have wanted the miniram but with everyone saying I would loose all my low end power I kept thinkin about the sr. Now I am sold on the miniram except for one thing. I do have emissions and underhood inspection. THis may sound pointless but If I got the miniram would It be worth swapping intakes just for the test if I wanted it bad enough?
------------------
1987 Iroc 350
GTS headlight/tail light covers
Camaro SS Wheels w/Sumitomo HTR ZII 275 rear, 255's in front
K&N filters
Adjustable Borla cat back
Large tube runners
ported plenum
Holley afpr
SLP 1 3/4" headders (not installed yet)
FUTURE GOAL:
To go really F'in fast!!!
Some pics of it at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...949&Auth=false
------------------
1987 Iroc 350
GTS headlight/tail light covers
Camaro SS Wheels w/Sumitomo HTR ZII 275 rear, 255's in front
K&N filters
Adjustable Borla cat back
Large tube runners
ported plenum
Holley afpr
SLP 1 3/4" headders (not installed yet)
FUTURE GOAL:
To go really F'in fast!!!
Some pics of it at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...949&Auth=false
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
From: My Garage - Chicago
Funny you should bring up this topic. On Friday I was discussing Accel-DFI with a local shop and the Mini-Ram came up. I may have an opportunity to purchase a used Mini-Ram for my new LO5/ZZ4 engine. The used Mini-Ram would come off of a 10 second supercharged Firebird. I currently have a Holley Projection TBI intake & 670cfm-TBI unit on top of this engine (which has never been fired).
I happen to have a TPIS catalog and insider hints book, so I spent a couple hours this weekend looking over all of the details. I've come to this conclusion and I'd like your opinions:
A completely stock TPI makes more low end power than a standard carb & intake setup. The carb takes over at around 3500rpm and up. I would assume that a TBI setup would act very similar to the carb setup, right?
This got me thinking about TPI as a replacement for my TBI. As I read on, I saw the TPIS large tube runners, Big Mouth base, ported plenum and 52mm TB make more power than even the Mini-Ram under 5000rpm. Only at 5000rpm and up did the Mini-Ram make more power than anything else in the test. SLP and Accel parts were also part of the test and did not fare so well compared to TPIS parts.
Given the simple fact that the Big Mouth base with large tube runners and ported plenum makes the most power exactly where I need it, I want to confirm that the Mini-Ram is "too much" for my setup. I have a stock 700R4 with a 2500 stall and 3.42 posi rear. I don't anticipate ever going past 5500rpm, so is the Big Mouth and it's compatible parts the setup for me? It looks like the Mini-Ram is made more for 5 or 6-speed cars with very high revving engines and low gears.
Am I correct? Is the other setup better for the average street car running low 13's-high 12's? Here is my sig:
------------------
'92 RS, ZZ4 10:1 350, Edelbrock 6085 heads, Crane 208/214 467/482 cam, GM/LT4 1.6 true roller rockers, Holley Projection TBI intake, Holley 670 TBI, SLP/Jet-Hot 1-5/8" headers, Catco 3" cat, Flowmaster 3" catback, Hughes 2500 stall converter, stock 700R4, Auburn Pro posi w/3.42, 17x9" SS rims w/BFG tires, Medium Quasar Blue w/white SS stripes, 48,000 miles....
I happen to have a TPIS catalog and insider hints book, so I spent a couple hours this weekend looking over all of the details. I've come to this conclusion and I'd like your opinions:
A completely stock TPI makes more low end power than a standard carb & intake setup. The carb takes over at around 3500rpm and up. I would assume that a TBI setup would act very similar to the carb setup, right?
This got me thinking about TPI as a replacement for my TBI. As I read on, I saw the TPIS large tube runners, Big Mouth base, ported plenum and 52mm TB make more power than even the Mini-Ram under 5000rpm. Only at 5000rpm and up did the Mini-Ram make more power than anything else in the test. SLP and Accel parts were also part of the test and did not fare so well compared to TPIS parts.
Given the simple fact that the Big Mouth base with large tube runners and ported plenum makes the most power exactly where I need it, I want to confirm that the Mini-Ram is "too much" for my setup. I have a stock 700R4 with a 2500 stall and 3.42 posi rear. I don't anticipate ever going past 5500rpm, so is the Big Mouth and it's compatible parts the setup for me? It looks like the Mini-Ram is made more for 5 or 6-speed cars with very high revving engines and low gears.
Am I correct? Is the other setup better for the average street car running low 13's-high 12's? Here is my sig:
------------------
'92 RS, ZZ4 10:1 350, Edelbrock 6085 heads, Crane 208/214 467/482 cam, GM/LT4 1.6 true roller rockers, Holley Projection TBI intake, Holley 670 TBI, SLP/Jet-Hot 1-5/8" headers, Catco 3" cat, Flowmaster 3" catback, Hughes 2500 stall converter, stock 700R4, Auburn Pro posi w/3.42, 17x9" SS rims w/BFG tires, Medium Quasar Blue w/white SS stripes, 48,000 miles....
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Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: Lynn Haven/Panama City, FL, USA
Car: 88 Monte SS
Engine: Super-rammed L-98 383
Transmission: T-56 6-Speed
Axle/Gears: 8.5" G-BODY G-80 3.73
ELOQUENTLY said Tim, this makes good common sense. I have driven many LT-1's and they NEVER had a LACK OF TORQUE issue. My setup works, but lacks synergy. Like you said, "IT IS OUT OF BALANCE," and the MR would definitely be a VAST improvement for my T-56. Like I said, VERY good analysis with validated testimonials.
------------------
88 Monte SS 355 TPI/LT-4 HOT CAM/AFR Hydra-rev/ T-56 6-Speed
------------------
88 Monte SS 355 TPI/LT-4 HOT CAM/AFR Hydra-rev/ T-56 6-Speed
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Scott,
Reread the original post. The MiniRam is NOT too much for any setup as long as the entire setup is balanced. You cannot bolt the MiniRam onto an engine with a very small cam (such as the one in your signature), or onto an engine with Edelbrock headers (puke), or onto an engine running stock type heads and expect it to work. It won't. There are 3 main questions that you have to ask yourself ....
1) Do I want to keep the looks of the TPI?
2) Am I willing to swap intakes everytime I need to go to emissions?
3) Why the heck do I want to stay under 5500rpms? (FYI - I am still running the stock bottom end of the motor)
The MiniRam is NOT just suited for manual cars. That is a rumor. Period. Just swap in a quality higher stall torque converter and the MiniRam works perfectly with the auto equipped F-Bodies. If you are worried about running a higher stall torque converter then reread the orginal post.
The MiniRam does NOT just make more power from 5000rpms on up. It depends on the camshaft that you choose and the other performance equipment that you run with the two setups. Take each setup and make it balanced and you will see that the MiniRam will make more power starting around 4500. For us MiniRam guys that is p-e-r-f-e-c-t. I shift at 6500rpms. The RPMS then drop to around 4400. That means that my entire powerband has more power. The only 'problem' that people then mention is getting through 1st gear. Whatever ... that's where the torque converter shines
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Reread the original post. The MiniRam is NOT too much for any setup as long as the entire setup is balanced. You cannot bolt the MiniRam onto an engine with a very small cam (such as the one in your signature), or onto an engine with Edelbrock headers (puke), or onto an engine running stock type heads and expect it to work. It won't. There are 3 main questions that you have to ask yourself ....
1) Do I want to keep the looks of the TPI?
2) Am I willing to swap intakes everytime I need to go to emissions?
3) Why the heck do I want to stay under 5500rpms? (FYI - I am still running the stock bottom end of the motor)
The MiniRam is NOT just suited for manual cars. That is a rumor. Period. Just swap in a quality higher stall torque converter and the MiniRam works perfectly with the auto equipped F-Bodies. If you are worried about running a higher stall torque converter then reread the orginal post.
The MiniRam does NOT just make more power from 5000rpms on up. It depends on the camshaft that you choose and the other performance equipment that you run with the two setups. Take each setup and make it balanced and you will see that the MiniRam will make more power starting around 4500. For us MiniRam guys that is p-e-r-f-e-c-t. I shift at 6500rpms. The RPMS then drop to around 4400. That means that my entire powerband has more power. The only 'problem' that people then mention is getting through 1st gear. Whatever ... that's where the torque converter shines
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Darnit ZBRA ...
Your bigarse picture made the post too big from left to right. Now everyone has to scroll from left to right in order to read the article
That is tedious on big posts like this one
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Your bigarse picture made the post too big from left to right. Now everyone has to scroll from left to right in order to read the article
That is tedious on big posts like this one Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA/ Clemson, SC
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Transmission: T56
Damn, Traxion. You shift at 6500 w/ the stock bottom end?? Are you just trying to blow it up? I'd be afraid to take it much past 5500.
------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, Centerforce Dual Friction clutch, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Holley Annihilator ignition box and wires, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, no cats, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited February 12, 2001).]
------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, Centerforce Dual Friction clutch, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Holley Annihilator ignition box and wires, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, no cats, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited February 12, 2001).]
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Steve,
It all depends on the parts that you have chosen to build up your engine. When I was still running the stock heads, stock cam, and stock springs ... it was scary going to 5500RPMs. I never took the engine over 5500rpms for the same reasons that you mention. Basically, the car felt like it didn't want to go any higher. After swapping heads and cam the engine wants to rev higher. Its hard to explain. But, basically, the engine feels entirely different. And, this has nothing to do with the MiniRam. I did heads/cam when I still had the long runner setup.
Redline is mostly dependent on the valvetrain. The stock TPI springs don't keep enough pressure against and therefore, not only does the stock intake give out at 5000rpms ... the stock valvetrain gives out at 5000rpms too. Furthermore, the stock cam falls flat on its face at 5000rpms. It would take forever to rev a stock engine to 6500rpms and it would sound like crap and be scary. With a different valvetrain, higher rate springs, a cam that works in the upper RPMs, and good heads ... the car takes itself to 6500rpms. When I mat the throttle the next thing I know is that the car is at 6500rpms. Sounds great too. Doesn't sound anything like the stock TPI.
There really is no comparison. I wouldn't take the stock valvetrain, heads, and intake past 5500rpms. This is where other 'rumors' begin. Of course you don't want to take the stock setup past 5500rpms. The valvesprings are crap, the heads don't flow up in those RPMs, the camshaft sucks at those RPMs, and the TPI doesn't flow at those RPMs. Take that setup and balance it for higher RPM power and the thing will scream.
The TPI bottom end can take 6500rpms. Look at what I am doing. The only thing that i would recommend would be a fluidampr so that the crankshaft vibrations can be dampened at higher than 5500rpms.
Its not really a big deal ... its just all the rumors that make it a big deal. The LT1 guys go to 6500rpms all the time.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
It all depends on the parts that you have chosen to build up your engine. When I was still running the stock heads, stock cam, and stock springs ... it was scary going to 5500RPMs. I never took the engine over 5500rpms for the same reasons that you mention. Basically, the car felt like it didn't want to go any higher. After swapping heads and cam the engine wants to rev higher. Its hard to explain. But, basically, the engine feels entirely different. And, this has nothing to do with the MiniRam. I did heads/cam when I still had the long runner setup.
Redline is mostly dependent on the valvetrain. The stock TPI springs don't keep enough pressure against and therefore, not only does the stock intake give out at 5000rpms ... the stock valvetrain gives out at 5000rpms too. Furthermore, the stock cam falls flat on its face at 5000rpms. It would take forever to rev a stock engine to 6500rpms and it would sound like crap and be scary. With a different valvetrain, higher rate springs, a cam that works in the upper RPMs, and good heads ... the car takes itself to 6500rpms. When I mat the throttle the next thing I know is that the car is at 6500rpms. Sounds great too. Doesn't sound anything like the stock TPI.
There really is no comparison. I wouldn't take the stock valvetrain, heads, and intake past 5500rpms. This is where other 'rumors' begin. Of course you don't want to take the stock setup past 5500rpms. The valvesprings are crap, the heads don't flow up in those RPMs, the camshaft sucks at those RPMs, and the TPI doesn't flow at those RPMs. Take that setup and balance it for higher RPM power and the thing will scream.
The TPI bottom end can take 6500rpms. Look at what I am doing. The only thing that i would recommend would be a fluidampr so that the crankshaft vibrations can be dampened at higher than 5500rpms.
Its not really a big deal ... its just all the rumors that make it a big deal. The LT1 guys go to 6500rpms all the time.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: State College, PA
Car: '89 Formula
Engine: 383 Megasquirt
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 7.625
Damn ZBRA, Trax is right. You need to make those pictures smaller. Just size them down to about 400 x 400 pixels or so in your image editor. They'll come off a lot more effective and won't make us all scroll to the right.
Thanks,
------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.4sec@101mph
My Page
Thanks,
------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.4sec@101mph
My Page
Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
From: St. Charles, IL USA
Let me know if you are still interested, Scott. I'm sure I won't have any trouble selling my little ol' Mini-Ram!
------------------
1989 Formula, 383", DFI, Mini-Ram, S-Trim Vortech, blah, blah...
Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 mph
TURBO 406 PROJECT STARTED!!!
Other expensive hobby: assault weapons/shooting sports
Employed at:
Hahn Racecraft
Accel EMIC/DFI Tuning
Turbosystems & Custom EFI
Member of Midwest F-Body Association
http://www.mfba.org
------------------
1989 Formula, 383", DFI, Mini-Ram, S-Trim Vortech, blah, blah...
Best ET: 10.796 @ 125.8 mph
TURBO 406 PROJECT STARTED!!!
Other expensive hobby: assault weapons/shooting sports
Employed at:
Hahn Racecraft
Accel EMIC/DFI Tuning
Turbosystems & Custom EFI
Member of Midwest F-Body Association
http://www.mfba.org
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: DALTON CITY IL USA
Tim.......would you care to share with me the specs on your next cam? I recently purchased a MR and hooker long tubes...and will be buying either the AFR 195s or Canfield 195s in the next week or so..My bottom end is box stock too. BTW.....will 58 cc heads and a cam in the mid 5s lift and 226°-230° cause any piston-valve clearance problems for me? ... John
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
Car: 2000 Trans Am
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
Hey blue bottle junky. I had my AFR's flowed, and the flow drops off over .500 lift. It was actually back DOWN by .550.
My opinion is a cam in the .500-.520ish range for lift is all you will need for the AFR's. The min iram like lots of duration though so anything over 220 is doing good. Favor the exhaust too because the AFR's like a larger exhaust profile.
These are my experiences
------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech stuffed EFI 406 in progress
-=ICON Motorsports=-
My opinion is a cam in the .500-.520ish range for lift is all you will need for the AFR's. The min iram like lots of duration though so anything over 220 is doing good. Favor the exhaust too because the AFR's like a larger exhaust profile.
These are my experiences
------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech stuffed EFI 406 in progress
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Member
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: Daytona beach, FL
What I don't understand is why a MR could not increase performance on a stock L98. After all the disign is close to an LT1 and the L98 cam/LT1 cam are very very close to have the same duration.
If my friend's 95 TA can do 14 flat with no headers, 3.42's and a K$N filter and a best of 13.7 on DOT's then I would say L98 could see the same results out of a MR...don't you think?
Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means
------------------
If my friend's 95 TA can do 14 flat with no headers, 3.42's and a K$N filter and a best of 13.7 on DOT's then I would say L98 could see the same results out of a MR...don't you think?
Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means
------------------
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Ferndale, WA USA
Great thread! I would like to draw on some of the experiences here. I have an 89 IROC with a ZZ3, ported heads, SLP 1 5/8 tri-Y's, 52mm throttle body, 3.08's, yada, yada, yada. I just installed a mini-ram with "hot" cam and 1.6:1 stainles roller rockers. My original configuration had WAY more power. TPIS says the cam is too big for the set-up, everyone else I talk to says it should run great.
Does the HOT cam go or stay?
Does the HOT cam go or stay?
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Mirage...
Read the original post again. The key to the performance of an engine equipped with the MiniRam is BALANCE. Bolting a MR onto an engine that is out of balance with it will lead to trouble and crappy performance. So, long story short, don't bolt a MR onto a stock L98. Comparing the L98 to the LT1 is ludicrous. The LT1 has significantly better heads capable of much more airflow at higher rpms, better valvesprings to handle the higher rpms, and a slightly better camshaft. That engine wants to rev. The L98 doesn't.
Keith...
What is your trap speed in the 1/4?
What torque converter are you running?
3.08 gears!?
What type of 'ported heads'?
What tuning (what PROM)?
The "HOT" cam isn't too big. TPIS doesn't know what the heck they are talking about. They are just trying to sell you on one of their cams. This cam works great. In fact, it is probably the SMALLEST cam that I would recommend with the MR. The reason that your car isn't performing doesn't have anything to do with your cam or your intake. However, it probably has everything to do with the other equipment that you are running.
I hate to say this, but your engine appears to be a prime example of where the rumors surrounding the performance of the MR get started. I would recommend at LEAST 3.23 gears with at LEAST a 2800 stall converter. Anything less will leave you wanting more torque. Personally, I would go with 3.73's and a 2800 or 3000 stall converter. I am running 3.73s with a 2800 and this combo is as tame as can be on the street. I would recommend a good set of heads with the proper springs. Ported stock heads or ZZ heads won't cut it (unless LPE ports those ZZ heads). You will also need the correct PROM tuning to get the fuel curve on the money. Again ... balance Grasshopper ... balance.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Read the original post again. The key to the performance of an engine equipped with the MiniRam is BALANCE. Bolting a MR onto an engine that is out of balance with it will lead to trouble and crappy performance. So, long story short, don't bolt a MR onto a stock L98. Comparing the L98 to the LT1 is ludicrous. The LT1 has significantly better heads capable of much more airflow at higher rpms, better valvesprings to handle the higher rpms, and a slightly better camshaft. That engine wants to rev. The L98 doesn't.
Keith...
What is your trap speed in the 1/4?
What torque converter are you running?
3.08 gears!?
What type of 'ported heads'?
What tuning (what PROM)?
The "HOT" cam isn't too big. TPIS doesn't know what the heck they are talking about. They are just trying to sell you on one of their cams. This cam works great. In fact, it is probably the SMALLEST cam that I would recommend with the MR. The reason that your car isn't performing doesn't have anything to do with your cam or your intake. However, it probably has everything to do with the other equipment that you are running.
I hate to say this, but your engine appears to be a prime example of where the rumors surrounding the performance of the MR get started. I would recommend at LEAST 3.23 gears with at LEAST a 2800 stall converter. Anything less will leave you wanting more torque. Personally, I would go with 3.73's and a 2800 or 3000 stall converter. I am running 3.73s with a 2800 and this combo is as tame as can be on the street. I would recommend a good set of heads with the proper springs. Ported stock heads or ZZ heads won't cut it (unless LPE ports those ZZ heads
). You will also need the correct PROM tuning to get the fuel curve on the money. Again ... balance Grasshopper ... balance.Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA/ Clemson, SC
Car: 1991 Camaro Z28
Transmission: T56
What's with TPIS's claim of 311 hp (at the crank) at 5250 rpm on a stock 1985 corvette motor? I know they probably burned a custom chip and used dyno headers but still, that is LT1 power just from bolting on the Miniram and some prom tuning.
Stock TPI
242.3 hp @ 4250rpm
216.2 hp @ 5250rpm
351.0 ft/lbs @ 3000
339.6 ft/lbs @ 3500
Miniram
274.8 hp @ 4250 rpm
311.5 hp @ 5250 rpm
331.6 ft/lbs @ 3000
344.6 ft/lbs @ 3500
You can see that some low end torque is lost but it more than makes up for it in the higher rpm range. I can see where this test might be biased b/c it was performed by TPIS but I don't think they would come out and blatantly lie about this. The test seems pretty believable. Someone prove me wrong.
------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, Centerforce Dual Friction clutch, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Holley Annihilator ignition box and wires, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, no cats, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited February 12, 2001).]
Stock TPI
242.3 hp @ 4250rpm
216.2 hp @ 5250rpm
351.0 ft/lbs @ 3000
339.6 ft/lbs @ 3500
Miniram
274.8 hp @ 4250 rpm
311.5 hp @ 5250 rpm
331.6 ft/lbs @ 3000
344.6 ft/lbs @ 3500
You can see that some low end torque is lost but it more than makes up for it in the higher rpm range. I can see where this test might be biased b/c it was performed by TPIS but I don't think they would come out and blatantly lie about this. The test seems pretty believable. Someone prove me wrong.
------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, Centerforce Dual Friction clutch, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Holley Annihilator ignition box and wires, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, no cats, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Steve91Z28 L98 (edited February 12, 2001).]
Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: State College, PA
Car: '89 Formula
Engine: 383 Megasquirt
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 7.625
No problem Zbra, thanks for taking care of it man.
Later,
------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.4sec@101mph
My Page
Later,
------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.4sec@101mph
My Page
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Ferndale, WA USA
The heads were ported by Dennis Baccus when he worked with Sallee Chevrolet, the torque converter is a PI stock +1000, trap speed ???, (if I had to guess I would have to say 85-90, my best g-tech 1/4 with the ZZ-3 was 12.98 @ 108 mph), 3.08 gears in a KTRE 12 bolt, and Jim Formato burned the chip for the ZZ-3 but I haven't had it upgraded since the cam change. (the prom forum made me all happy and stuff so I got crazy and ordered all the programing stuff) I just ordered a new prom from FasterChips to use as a base and intend to fine tune it by using my Diacom +.
My adrenal fix comes from triple digit stuff so anything lower than 3.08's makes my eyes water.
When I adjusted the valves I used a zero lash +1 full turn so I have readjusted them to 1/2 - 3/4 turn to see if that helps. (have always used solid lifters in the past so the hydraulic thing caught me off balance)
Thanks, you guys have a great well thought out and managed site. Makes me feel like a kid again.
KA
My adrenal fix comes from triple digit stuff so anything lower than 3.08's makes my eyes water.
When I adjusted the valves I used a zero lash +1 full turn so I have readjusted them to 1/2 - 3/4 turn to see if that helps. (have always used solid lifters in the past so the hydraulic thing caught me off balance)
Thanks, you guys have a great well thought out and managed site. Makes me feel like a kid again.
KA
Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
From: helldon, fl
Car: 87 trans am GTA
Engine: tesla permanent magnet
Transmission: 93 T-56
Axle/Gears: moser 12bolt w/ 3.73
i know i shouldnt even be posting since i dont even have a MR, but i even noticed difference after i bolted on my SR with the way the motor revved, and traxion's right torque only gets you so far, all i could b4 was spin and then run out of breath, even if spin now the motor seems to catch up.
------------------
87GTA super-ramed 355, A4 ran high 12's with old school setup and radials, hoping for low 12's or better
/91 TA daily driver LB9 A4 2.73,
------------------
87GTA super-ramed 355, A4 ran high 12's with old school setup and radials, hoping for low 12's or better
/91 TA daily driver LB9 A4 2.73, 
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
From: Ormond Beach
Traxion, maybe you can give me a little help here. I am about to purchase an 89 GTA with a 350 TPI, stock to the bone. I'll have around 3 grand to sink into it. The motor has been freshly rebuilt, as has the tranny. I would like you to write me up a recipe for sucess. I would love to go with a mimi ram set up, but don't think i'll have enough money to make all the necesarry mods. Building an engine is like baking a cake, you need the right mixture of ingrediants. What would be the best way to work torwards completing an aluminum head (AFR for example), mini ram, good cam set up? I'm concerned that if i pick up heads and a mini ram, as well as a cam, i won't have enough money for a custom burned chip and proper exaust. In that case, what do i do first. Everyone elses opinions are welcome as well. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
From: helldon, fl
Car: 87 trans am GTA
Engine: tesla permanent magnet
Transmission: 93 T-56
Axle/Gears: moser 12bolt w/ 3.73
SAVE,SAVE,SAVE...if i were you i would spend some figuring exactly how much it'll cost, and looking to sell off your OEM stuff, then see how far off you are. you could always go to like a vette site or another f-body site and check their classifieds, you never know
------------------
87GTA super-ramed 355, A4 ran high 12's with old school setup and radials, hoping for low 12's or better /91 TA daily driver LB9 A4 2.73,
------------------
87GTA super-ramed 355, A4 ran high 12's with old school setup and radials, hoping for low 12's or better
/91 TA daily driver LB9 A4 2.73, 
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 900
Likes: 1
From: Haslett, MI
Car: 1984 Trans Am WS6
Engine: Minirammed 385, 396 RWHP
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Moser 12-bolt
Thanks for the article! I feel better now about that miniram I have sitting in the basement, next to the 3.75 inch crank.
... I'm using the AFR 195's as well with the competition porting option, and the TPIS ZZ409 roller retrofit cam in a line-bored 350 4-bolt block, 2500 RPM stall converter, and 3.73's...
That ought to be good for a low-12 second ride, shouldn't it?
------------------
Daniel Burk
http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.
... I'm using the AFR 195's as well with the competition porting option, and the TPIS ZZ409 roller retrofit cam in a line-bored 350 4-bolt block, 2500 RPM stall converter, and 3.73's...
That ought to be good for a low-12 second ride, shouldn't it?
------------------
Daniel Burk
http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: Ferndale, WA USA
Traxion, thanks for the encouragement about the HOT cam. I have worked the bugs out of it and I have to say I agree with your impression of the MR. I was used to the crazy low end torque of the TPI and it took some getting used to even though that was the main reason for the upgrades. The engine spools so effortlessly it is misleading how much power it is making and between 4500 and 5500, it just keeps pulling harder. Nice change!!
I am interested in your impression of the AFR 190 heads. I understand about balance and my ported ZZ-3 heads are probably over the edge. I have been looking at the AFR's for some time but have never known anyone that had first hand experience with them.
I am interested in your impression of the AFR 190 heads. I understand about balance and my ported ZZ-3 heads are probably over the edge. I have been looking at the AFR's for some time but have never known anyone that had first hand experience with them.
Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: MA, USA
You want looks...
How about horsepower? SLP T-Ram has 46 more horsepower than the Super Ram (so the ad claims)!
The T-Ram came with a 58mm TB, which I will try before swapping out for the 52mm. I've heard that the difference between the 52mm and 58mm isn't that noticible... I'll let you know!
------------------
92 Z28 - 5.7 - Black/Grey Leather
Macewen White Faced Guages
SLP T-RAM, 24lb/h Injectors
Accell 52mm Throttle Body
SLP 1 3/4" Headers and Cat Back Sys.
My T-Rammed L98
How about horsepower? SLP T-Ram has 46 more horsepower than the Super Ram (so the ad claims)!
The T-Ram came with a 58mm TB, which I will try before swapping out for the 52mm. I've heard that the difference between the 52mm and 58mm isn't that noticible... I'll let you know!
------------------
92 Z28 - 5.7 - Black/Grey Leather
Macewen White Faced Guages
SLP T-RAM, 24lb/h Injectors
Accell 52mm Throttle Body
SLP 1 3/4" Headers and Cat Back Sys.
My T-Rammed L98
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Car: 83 Z28
Engine: 406
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9" with 4.10s
GREAT POST!!!
I learning more everyday.
Trax, you really have done your homework.
Thanks for sharing w/ us!
Question for the future.
Is there any FI setup that will pull to 8,000 or should I just stay w/ a carb?
------------------
Michael Graeber
My Garage
1)83 Z-28 T-Top: Full cage, 9" w/ lad.bars, Midwest Engine Tech 406sbc,Strip Dominator, Demon Carb, Phase VI Chevy Bowtie heads, .630" Crower roller set-up, 1 3/4 coated Hookers 3" true dual exhaust th400, fuel cell & still not running
2)89 Formula WS-6 305 TPI Auto For the road: minor motor, more suspension stuff. MODS
I learning more everyday.
Trax, you really have done your homework.
Thanks for sharing w/ us!
Question for the future.
Is there any FI setup that will pull to 8,000 or should I just stay w/ a carb?
------------------
Michael Graeber
My Garage
1)83 Z-28 T-Top: Full cage, 9" w/ lad.bars, Midwest Engine Tech 406sbc,Strip Dominator, Demon Carb, Phase VI Chevy Bowtie heads, .630" Crower roller set-up, 1 3/4 coated Hookers 3" true dual exhaust th400, fuel cell & still not running
2)89 Formula WS-6 305 TPI Auto For the road: minor motor, more suspension stuff. MODS
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Wanted to make an important ammendment to this article.
You do not need the F-Body Fuel Rail kit in order to install the MiniRam on an F-Body. However, you at least need the standard fuel rail kit. This will bump the price up as compared to what I initially stated. Sorry for the confusion.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
You do not need the F-Body Fuel Rail kit in order to install the MiniRam on an F-Body. However, you at least need the standard fuel rail kit. This will bump the price up as compared to what I initially stated. Sorry for the confusion.
Tim
------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's after installing Hooker LT Headers and reducing weight.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
From: macomb Il
KEITHA.. I HAVE 3.23 GEARS IN MY 1990 IROC..AND I HAVE HAD MY CAR UP TO 145 MPH EASILY.. AND IT IS BASICLY STOCK.. NEVER EVEN TAKEN THE INTAKE OFF.. I AM CONSIDERING A MR BUT GEARS DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. AND THE 3.42 GEARS ARE THE BEST.. YOU CAN STILL GET INTO THE TRIPLE DIGITS. AND HAVE BAD A*S LAUNCHES.. JUST DO IT MAN GO WITH THE GEARS.. YOU WILL THANK US LATER.. OH AND BY THE WAY HOW FAST HAVE YOU HAD YOUR CAR.. THANKS.. AND STAY IN CONTROL AT HIGH SPEEDS.
HAVE FUN AND DONT EVER USE FORDS..
HAVE FUN AND DONT EVER USE FORDS..
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, KS
"You do not need the F-Body Fuel Rail kit in order to install the MiniRam on an F-Body. However, you at least need the standard fuel rail kit. This will bump the price up as compared to what I initially stated. Sorry for the confusion."
What all is needed.. could you make a little list with aproximate price?
What all is needed.. could you make a little list with aproximate price?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 503
Likes: 0
From: Mount Airy, MD
Car: 79 Camaro RS
Engine: 355, carb, alum heads, XE262
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
kream, good question. When you buy the MR kit it is a must to buy TPIS's fuel rail kit, correct?? Also what other parts would be involved with the swap???
TIA
j.wolfe
TRAX: Thanks for pointing me here, I did not notice this in my initial search. A lot of questions have been answered. Thanks again.
------------------
j.wolfe
________
91 GTA
ET: 15.3@89.2mph in OD taking it easy on 190,000 mile engine!
TIA
j.wolfe
TRAX: Thanks for pointing me here, I did not notice this in my initial search. A lot of questions have been answered. Thanks again.
------------------
j.wolfe
________
91 GTA
ET: 15.3@89.2mph in OD taking it easy on 190,000 mile engine!
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA, US of A
Car: 94 Z28
Engine: LT1 w/ headers, catback, CAI, tune
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.23s
Why would the LT4 HOT cam run poorly in a Miniram equiped car?
I mean think about it for a minute, the HOT cam was designed for a LT4 and makes great power in it. And the LT4 is using what intake? Basically a MiniRam...
------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
I mean think about it for a minute, the HOT cam was designed for a LT4 and makes great power in it. And the LT4 is using what intake? Basically a MiniRam...
------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Ray,
Who said the LT4 HOT cam would run poorly in a MiniRam equipped car?
Tim
------------------
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Who said the LT4 HOT cam would run poorly in a MiniRam equipped car?
Tim
------------------
- Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
- Research and Experiment before asking questions.
- This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA, US of A
Car: 94 Z28
Engine: LT1 w/ headers, catback, CAI, tune
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.23s
I believe someone posted above that TPIS said the HOT cam was too big, and too switch it out. That implies to me that they're saying it would run poorly, which makes no sense to me as the HOT cam was designed to increase performance in an engine w/ darn near the exact same manifold... I'm with you (I think it was you that said this), they were merely trying to sell their own cam.
------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited February 09, 2001).]
------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray
[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited February 09, 2001).]
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Ray,
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about now. Thanks for being specific ...
TPIS says:
What bunch of bullcrap. Again - more propoganda to get you to buy THEIR parts. Although I really like the MiniRam ... I hate the propaganda. The LT4 HOT cam is not too big for a 350. Yes, you will need a torque converter with that cam to keep your lowerend. I would have understood their response if they just would have said ....
'That cam is too big for the stock torque converter and the stock gear. Use a quality 2800rpm torque converter and you will see your setup come to life.' THAT is the appropriate answer. GM designed the LT4 HOT cam for the LT4 engine (350 with the 'bigger port' LT4 heads). I trust GM much much more than I trust TPIS. Again - I love the MiniRam but I hate their marketing strategy!
One of the biggest rumors that has been on our boards for awhile is how big to go with regards to the camshaft (roller motor) on a stock motor. The LT4 HOT cam with 218º of intake duration is MILD. Some of the more serious guys use 224º duration cams. I am going CRAZY and just finished installing a 230º Intake duration camshaft (Xtreme intake lobe ... secret exhaust lobe and secret LSA)
We'll see if I can put these rumors aside.
Tim
------------------
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about now. Thanks for being specific ...
TPIS says:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Q: I have a 95 LT1, it has LT4 heads and intake,LT4 fuel injectors,1.6 roller rockers,52mm throttle body,1 3/4'' SLP headers,GM Performance Parts Hot Cam,ACCEL 300+ Ignition and K&N fuel injection performance kit. Idles good, but when I hit the throttle it is slow to respond, and when it does, it isn't very impressive. Do I need a re-programmed computer? A larger fuel pump or an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
A: The Cam is to big for a 350 motor. I get this question all the time with the LT4 Hot Cam. If you look at the duration @ .050 it's just plain to big for a 350. It would be fine in a 383 or bigger motor with a lot of compression, and a deep gear. Also the intake port volume of the heads is to big. In order to use these pieces you would need to stroke the motor and raise the c/r, or add a supercharger. When you go with big cams and 1.6 rocker ratio, and add big heads you will lose all your bottom end power and most of your mid-range power. What happens is the velocity of the air slows down that's why you go slower. The whole set up is still on the big side for a 383 ci motor.
TPiS
</font>
Q: I have a 95 LT1, it has LT4 heads and intake,LT4 fuel injectors,1.6 roller rockers,52mm throttle body,1 3/4'' SLP headers,GM Performance Parts Hot Cam,ACCEL 300+ Ignition and K&N fuel injection performance kit. Idles good, but when I hit the throttle it is slow to respond, and when it does, it isn't very impressive. Do I need a re-programmed computer? A larger fuel pump or an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
A: The Cam is to big for a 350 motor. I get this question all the time with the LT4 Hot Cam. If you look at the duration @ .050 it's just plain to big for a 350. It would be fine in a 383 or bigger motor with a lot of compression, and a deep gear. Also the intake port volume of the heads is to big. In order to use these pieces you would need to stroke the motor and raise the c/r, or add a supercharger. When you go with big cams and 1.6 rocker ratio, and add big heads you will lose all your bottom end power and most of your mid-range power. What happens is the velocity of the air slows down that's why you go slower. The whole set up is still on the big side for a 383 ci motor.
TPiS
</font>
'That cam is too big for the stock torque converter and the stock gear. Use a quality 2800rpm torque converter and you will see your setup come to life.' THAT is the appropriate answer. GM designed the LT4 HOT cam for the LT4 engine (350 with the 'bigger port' LT4 heads). I trust GM much much more than I trust TPIS. Again - I love the MiniRam but I hate their marketing strategy!
One of the biggest rumors that has been on our boards for awhile is how big to go with regards to the camshaft (roller motor) on a stock motor. The LT4 HOT cam with 218º of intake duration is MILD. Some of the more serious guys use 224º duration cams. I am going CRAZY and just finished installing a 230º Intake duration camshaft (Xtreme intake lobe ... secret exhaust lobe and secret LSA)
We'll see if I can put these rumors aside.
Tim
------------------
- Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
- Research and Experiment before asking questions.
- This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
Car: 2000 Trans Am
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
I run a 230/236 camshaft 114LSA in my 406 with a mini ram, AFR190 heads
.510/.520 lift w/ 1.5 rockers
------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
.510/.520 lift w/ 1.5 rockers
------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 10,950
Likes: 26
From: Orange, SoCal
Car: 1990 Pontiac Trans Am
Engine: 355 TPI siamesed runners
Transmission: Tremec T56
Axle/Gears: 12-Bolt 3.73
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TRAXION:
One of the biggest rumors that has been on our boards for awhile is how big to go with regards to the camshaft (roller motor) on a stock motor. The LT4 HOT cam with 218º of intake duration is MILD. Some of the more serious guys use 224º duration cams. I am going CRAZY and just finished installing a 230º Intake duration camshaft (Xtreme intake lobe ... secret exhaust lobe and secret LSA)
We'll see if I can put these rumors aside.
Tim
</font>
One of the biggest rumors that has been on our boards for awhile is how big to go with regards to the camshaft (roller motor) on a stock motor. The LT4 HOT cam with 218º of intake duration is MILD. Some of the more serious guys use 224º duration cams. I am going CRAZY and just finished installing a 230º Intake duration camshaft (Xtreme intake lobe ... secret exhaust lobe and secret LSA)
We'll see if I can put these rumors aside.
Tim
</font>
I'm using the LT4 HOT cam in my new engine, but I also have TPIS base/runners, ported ZZ4 heads, and SLP 1 3/4" headers. I would not recommend this cam to anyone with a stock intake, stock heads, and/or stock exhaust manifolds.
TGO Supporter
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 10,907
Likes: 4
From: The Bone Yard
Car: Death Mobile
Engine: 666 c.i.
I think the context of Tim's comment is in regards to ANY 350 and he's quoting TPIS' "propaganda". I would tend to agree that on a "bone stock" that the LT4 Hot Cam is a bit big and you should have additional intake and head mods to take full advantage of the cams potential.
But I also recall a few members on this board installing an LT4 Hot Cam in a "bone stock" L98 and getting a definite performance increase.
But I also recall a few members on this board installing an LT4 Hot Cam in a "bone stock" L98 and getting a definite performance increase.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 4
From: Maryland
Car: 2005 Subaru STI
Engine: 153ci of Turbo Power!
Transmission: 6-Speed
Kev,
We're on different wavelengths I agree with what you said. Let me make my point much clearer since I now realize that what I said doesn't sound like what I meant to say .....
IMHO - the HOT cam is definitely too big for a stock motor with stock heads. However, this cam is not too big for a stock motor with good flowing aftermarket heads and an upgraded TPI intake. By stock motor I was actually thinking of me ... which means a stock bottom end. The HOT cam DEMANDS a high flowing set of heads and a high flowing intake. Each intake design has its own particular camshaft selection criteria. The LTR setup should use cams 218º and UNDER (IMHO). When discussing BIG cams I was referring to how big one can actually go while still retaining the stock 350 bottom end of the motor. I completely understand why you said what you said and I'm glad you called me on it. I'd hate for it to get around that I said that a 218 cam (HOT cam) will work in a totally stock motor. NO FREAKIN' WAY! That cam is WAY too big for a stock motor. However, add some high flowing heads, an upgraded intake and an upgraded exhaust and the sky is the limit. With a fully upgraded stock shortblock you can go pretty high on the duration so long as you choose your parts WISELY. For example, you wouldn't run a 220+ intake duration cam in a Large Tube runner setup. That would be stupid. However, a 220 duration cam in a SuperRam setup would rock. You wouldn't run a 226 duration cam in a SuperRam setup. However, that cam in a MiniRam setup would rock. See? You can use a big cam so long as your setup is balanced. The bigger the cam that you use the shorter the intake runners must be and the more important gearing becomes. The 'rumors' that I was talking about were that you can't use a big cam in a TPI car. Well, you can! Its just that you have to change a lot of other chit before it will work well.
See?
Tim
------------------
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
We're on different wavelengths
I agree with what you said. Let me make my point much clearer since I now realize that what I said doesn't sound like what I meant to say .....IMHO - the HOT cam is definitely too big for a stock motor with stock heads. However, this cam is not too big for a stock motor with good flowing aftermarket heads and an upgraded TPI intake. By stock motor I was actually thinking of me ... which means a stock bottom end. The HOT cam DEMANDS a high flowing set of heads and a high flowing intake. Each intake design has its own particular camshaft selection criteria. The LTR setup should use cams 218º and UNDER (IMHO). When discussing BIG cams I was referring to how big one can actually go while still retaining the stock 350 bottom end of the motor. I completely understand why you said what you said and I'm glad you called me on it. I'd hate for it to get around that I said that a 218 cam (HOT cam) will work in a totally stock motor. NO FREAKIN' WAY! That cam is WAY too big for a stock motor. However, add some high flowing heads, an upgraded intake and an upgraded exhaust and the sky is the limit. With a fully upgraded stock shortblock you can go pretty high on the duration so long as you choose your parts WISELY. For example, you wouldn't run a 220+ intake duration cam in a Large Tube runner setup. That would be stupid. However, a 220 duration cam in a SuperRam setup would rock. You wouldn't run a 226 duration cam in a SuperRam setup. However, that cam in a MiniRam setup would rock. See? You can use a big cam so long as your setup is balanced. The bigger the cam that you use the shorter the intake runners must be and the more important gearing becomes. The 'rumors' that I was talking about were that you can't use a big cam in a TPI car. Well, you can! Its just that you have to change a lot of other chit before it will work well.
See?
Tim
------------------
- Program your own PROMs!. Read my article to get started!
- Research and Experiment before asking questions.
- This is not a chip store. Go to the classifieds if you want someone to sell you a chip or give you a BIN.
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org
Dam this thread is still alive? I am having comp grind me a custom cam 240/248@.050 .543/.565 lift w/ 114 lsa. After I recieve it and put it in, im going to get it tuned and then off to the local dyno. It will be a while but Ill post some numbers. Ive been gutting my harness and ecm in prep for my speed pro. Its gonna take a while to get used to tuning that sucka.
------------------
87z 383,afr 190's, crane hyd roller(224/230-.509/.528,112 sep),Ported and polished mini ram, 30lb inj, 3.42 gears, strange 12 bolt, tremec 5spd, , 1,3/4" slp headers.
------------------
87z 383,afr 190's, crane hyd roller(224/230-.509/.528,112 sep),Ported and polished mini ram, 30lb inj, 3.42 gears, strange 12 bolt, tremec 5spd, , 1,3/4" slp headers.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis, IN
Car: 2000 Trans Am
Engine: LS1
Transmission: T56
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 87Z-ya:
240/248@.050 .543/.565 lift w/ 114 lsa.
</font>
240/248@.050 .543/.565 lift w/ 114 lsa.
</font>
geez what are you using solid roller or something?
------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Fort Myers,FL
Tim once again great post .
Guys you can check my site out at http://www.geocities.com/bowtie8
I have the 85 vette. There are links for hte dynographs
I swapped over from the SR to the MR with no ther changes. I also had my car dyno with the SR andf then the MR. you will see the dyno torque loss but you could not feel it.
I ran the same times at first but with my own tuning I surpased the the 383 SR setup.
I have a few movies at http://bowtye8.tzo.com/hovmovies/racin
This sever seems togo down often. sorry
I will also back up about the vigilante. Take no substitues.
Dennis
------------------
85 vette,383,miniram,ZF6,4.10's..best ET 11.66@1187.00 60' 1.62
w/100HP nirous 11.05@127
http://geocities.com/bowtie8
.Guys you can check my site out at http://www.geocities.com/bowtie8
I have the 85 vette. There are links for hte dynographs
I swapped over from the SR to the MR with no ther changes. I also had my car dyno with the SR andf then the MR. you will see the dyno torque loss but you could not feel it.
I ran the same times at first but with my own tuning I surpased the the 383 SR setup.
I have a few movies at http://bowtye8.tzo.com/hovmovies/racin
This sever seems togo down often. sorry
I will also back up about the vigilante. Take no substitues.
Dennis
------------------
85 vette,383,miniram,ZF6,4.10's..best ET 11.66@1187.00 60' 1.62
w/100HP nirous 11.05@127
http://geocities.com/bowtie8
Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
From: Amarillo TX usa
the miniram is a good intake for the upper rpm range. but those of us who have relativly stock engines rely on our torque and superior traction to get infront of the lt1 and ls1 guys. Some of us are lucky enough to have the horse power to stay there . in my opinion the lt1 is not that strong and the runners are too short. while the lt1 or miniram style manifold is better for upper rpm operation i belive there needs to be an lt1 style intake with runners about 3 inches longer. The ideal manifold would be some where between the super ram and the miniram. But this manifold is not avalible. On a stock engine the miniram would suck. on a highly moded engine the stock setup would suck just as bad. Most people don't got from stock to 11's all at one time. The miniram is a chunk of change to shell out all at once. The runners and lower are much more manigable. I am going to get a miniram but only after i get a blower and some other cool stuff.
------------------
90 iroc l98
last season best corected 13.62 @102
mods
full exhaust, AFPR, pulley, jet stage 1 chip, billet servo, 52mm throttle body and a few other little things.
. in my opinion the lt1 is not that strong and the runners are too short. while the lt1 or miniram style manifold is better for upper rpm operation i belive there needs to be an lt1 style intake with runners about 3 inches longer. The ideal manifold would be some where between the super ram and the miniram. But this manifold is not avalible. On a stock engine the miniram would suck. on a highly moded engine the stock setup would suck just as bad. Most people don't got from stock to 11's all at one time. The miniram is a chunk of change to shell out all at once. The runners and lower are much more manigable. I am going to get a miniram but only after i get a blower and some other cool stuff. ------------------
90 iroc l98
last season best corected 13.62 @102
mods
full exhaust, AFPR, pulley, jet stage 1 chip, billet servo, 52mm throttle body and a few other little things.
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Car: 1987 Pontiac Fiero
Engine: 3800 Series 2 Turbo
Transmission: 4T60-E
Axle/Gears: 3.33
What kind of money you got wrapped up in this thing to do 12s?
------------------
1987 Trans Am GTA WS6
-5.7L SuperRam
-TFS Twisted Wedge Heads
-LT4 HOTCAM
-LT1 PM Rods
-380 HP @ 5000 (net)
-442 TQ @ 4100 (net)
-4L60-E Transmission
-LS1 Aluminum Driveshaft
-4.10 SRD
1988 Pontiac Grand Am
-3800 SFI V6
-125-C Trans
-Stock 2.5L converter (stalls at about 3000)
-Stock emissions equipment
Domestic Terrors Car Club Online
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1987 Trans Am GTA WS6
-5.7L SuperRam
-TFS Twisted Wedge Heads
-LT4 HOTCAM
-LT1 PM Rods
-380 HP @ 5000 (net)
-442 TQ @ 4100 (net)
-4L60-E Transmission
-LS1 Aluminum Driveshaft
-4.10 SRD
1988 Pontiac Grand Am
-3800 SFI V6
-125-C Trans
-Stock 2.5L converter (stalls at about 3000)
-Stock emissions equipment
Domestic Terrors Car Club Online
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Car: 1987 Pontiac Fiero
Engine: 3800 Series 2 Turbo
Transmission: 4T60-E
Axle/Gears: 3.33
I am going to set your record straight. First of all, let me say that I used to have a miniram. Second of all, let me say that there is a lot of controversy over what is a street (or daily driver) car. In my opinion, a street car is one that can be driven for 50,000 miles without the need for an engine or tranny rebuild. I think that spinning a stock L98 bottom end to 6500 on a regular basis is a bad idea. These motors were only designed to go to 5500 MAX. I would like to get back to you after about 20,000 miles or a year and see if you needed a rebuild yet.
As for the intake...
It is very good one if you have a stick or an engine that likes to rev high. It is very bad for a car with an automatic and a stall lower than 2800. You must remember, many of us cannot afford both the miniram and the 2800 lock-up converter at the same time (i have priced similar converters at over $500 and the complete miniram with fuel rails for over $1200). I would like to know where you get your great discounts so i can shop there. Another thing is that high revs are not only bad for the engine, but bad for an automatic transmission also, so a stock one would not last long. I would like to know how much you have wrapped up in your entire drivetrain. Another thing, your web site says you are running a 218/224 cam. I am curious, I was running a 218/228 cam and could only muster a 13.6 in the 1/4.
I tried a slightly smaller cam on advice from TPIS -- the car got slower.
I tried a 52mm throttle body -- the car got slower.
I tried 4.10 gears -- and, you guessed it, the car got slower.
I had a similar setup as you, but with a 2300 stall, 3.73s, Twisted Wedge heads (which flow similar to the AFR 190s and much cheaper) and had bad luck in a car that weighed nearly the same as yours. I wonder what I was doing wrong. I agree, the miniram made great power--starting at about 5000rpm. Every article I have picked up since then states that the miniram is best suited for engines that are 383 cubes and up. I am sorry, but I have to remain a sceptic on the timeslip until I get some more info. PS: My car is much faster with a SuperRam.
------------------
1987 Trans Am GTA WS6
-5.7L SuperRam
-TFS Twisted Wedge Heads
-LT4 HOTCAM
-LT1 PM Rods
-380 HP @ 5000 (net)
-442 TQ @ 4100 (net)
-4L60-E Transmission
-LS1 Aluminum Driveshaft
-4.10 SRD
1988 Pontiac Grand Am
-3800 SFI V6
-125-C Trans
-Stock 2.5L converter (stalls at about 3000)
-Stock emissions equipment
Domestic Terrors Car Club Online
[This message has been edited by MadMax350 (edited February 12, 2001).]
As for the intake...
It is very good one if you have a stick or an engine that likes to rev high. It is very bad for a car with an automatic and a stall lower than 2800. You must remember, many of us cannot afford both the miniram and the 2800 lock-up converter at the same time (i have priced similar converters at over $500 and the complete miniram with fuel rails for over $1200). I would like to know where you get your great discounts so i can shop there. Another thing is that high revs are not only bad for the engine, but bad for an automatic transmission also, so a stock one would not last long. I would like to know how much you have wrapped up in your entire drivetrain. Another thing, your web site says you are running a 218/224 cam. I am curious, I was running a 218/228 cam and could only muster a 13.6 in the 1/4.
I tried a slightly smaller cam on advice from TPIS -- the car got slower.
I tried a 52mm throttle body -- the car got slower.
I tried 4.10 gears -- and, you guessed it, the car got slower.
I had a similar setup as you, but with a 2300 stall, 3.73s, Twisted Wedge heads (which flow similar to the AFR 190s and much cheaper) and had bad luck in a car that weighed nearly the same as yours. I wonder what I was doing wrong. I agree, the miniram made great power--starting at about 5000rpm. Every article I have picked up since then states that the miniram is best suited for engines that are 383 cubes and up. I am sorry, but I have to remain a sceptic on the timeslip until I get some more info. PS: My car is much faster with a SuperRam.
------------------
1987 Trans Am GTA WS6
-5.7L SuperRam
-TFS Twisted Wedge Heads
-LT4 HOTCAM
-LT1 PM Rods
-380 HP @ 5000 (net)
-442 TQ @ 4100 (net)
-4L60-E Transmission
-LS1 Aluminum Driveshaft
-4.10 SRD
1988 Pontiac Grand Am
-3800 SFI V6
-125-C Trans
-Stock 2.5L converter (stalls at about 3000)
-Stock emissions equipment
Domestic Terrors Car Club Online
[This message has been edited by MadMax350 (edited February 12, 2001).]