I was wondering if it would be that hard to make your own sub box. I don't want to go spend 100 bucks on one. Is it really that difficult? Is there more involved then measuring out the dimensions, cutting the wood, and putting it together? Also, what kind of wood do you use and would you recommend using plexiglass to cover it? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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1984 Camaro Sport Coupe - Rebuilt 355 S/D TPI L98, Crane 2032 CompuCam, Crane adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD Blaster coil, custom burned PROM, stock TPI intake, Accel 24# injectors, gutted air box with K&N filters
F41 Suspension Package, 700R4 Tranny, TCI Breakaway torque converter, 3.27 Posi Rear
Hooker Shorty Headers, Catco High-Flow 3" Cat, Flowmaster 3" American Thunder Cat-Back

Best 1/4 Mile Run:
13.847 @ 95.91 MPH

1992 1LE B4C Police Camaro RS - 305 TPI 5-Speed

 

Unless you're a skilled box builder, they're not easy. After you measure, you've got to translate that into cuts on a flat piece of wood, which takes a certain sort of skill to get right. Usually even with that skill, you'll screw up a bunch of times (you'll be surprised how many pieces are 3/4" too big or small the first time), so you need to make sure you've got extra wood. It's real important to have precise cuts otherwise the panels won't fit together, which more or less makes the box junk. There's also a million other little tricks you learn along the way, so don't expect your first one to be any sort of masterpiece.

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The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

Ya.. im a novice at box building. Ive done a lot of boxes for trunks that are just a rectangle.. but for the firebird and camaro well... its hard as HELL!

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1972 Chevy Chevelle "Malibu"
Hooker Headers, Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, accel 8.8 wires,Edelbrock performer intake Edelbrock Carb, Torque Thrust "D" wheels
Click here for my Malibu information
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You guys know of any sites that tell how to do it? How much space should you have behind and around the sub? Thanks again.

 

The amount of space behind the sub depends on the sub! You should check with the manufacturer to see what airspace requirements your subs have.

Mark Lock used to have box plans on his website, but I haven't seen him or his website in quite some time.

------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/education/

I built my own box abou a year ago i think...........man time is a bitch. anyway, i used the info found on the mtx website as well as plans that i made from measuring the well in the back of my Z28. I had 4 years of woodshop in highschool (im 20) so it was relatively fresh in my mind and i used that knowledge to my advantage. i could have had better tools, like a table saw...everything would have been much more square, but i only had a circular saw and a jig saw. and its not a good idea to use a table saw unless you know how (theres a little more to it than running the wood over the blade) anyway the thing isnt perfect by any means but you migh not notice the flaws unless i point them out. and it sounds great, the subs pound in the box. i'm lookin forward to my next purchase so i can build my next box.

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85 Z28- 350, Comp 262, Edelbrock Performer intake, Edelbrock 600 cfm carb and Edelbrock cat back, Summit headers and vette servo
-JVC, Eclipse, Pioneer, MTX, Phoenix Gold, Planet Audio

 

Box building is a sinch if you take your time. It's true though, you need to take into consideration HOW the box is going to be put together. You need to take into account if pieces are going to be "caps" or inset, etc. Then you'll have to add or subtract 3/4" here and there. I find it easiest to use CAD or some sort. I use Cadkey 99 but Autocad is another great program. Then once you've made the box you can demension the pieces and modify a piece accordingly. Get all your pieces and make GOOD cuts, unless you like doing 10 passes on the table saw for a 3 sided piece!
Personally I took it to another level and just did fiberglass. It wasn't hard. Took time just to cure and learn the proper mixture of hardener etc but that comes with experience.

 

I built the box for my camaro (2 Phoenix Gold 12's)... It wasnt too difficult, it just took several hours and about 50 bucks....

I used 3/4" MDF, predrilled all of the holes, and put silicone in between all of the joints and edges, before screwing them down, to create an air tight space....

Just take your time, cut carefully, and dont wait until all the pieces are cut to test if they fit.

If you need help in the process, most of the guys on this board are very helpful. Just ask questions!

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http://kiztope.50megs.com
92 Pontiac Firebird Formula 5.7/A4
K&N, nothing else yet!

92 Rs 3.1/T-5
Beautiful car, several mods, but now I am turning attention to the 'bird!

AIM : Theonekiztope
ICQ: 8787542

"Maybe one day life will take a turn. When it does Lean into it!" Leon Calrinsky (98)

 

well, i built my box for my camaro, it holds 2 12s. Im upgrading to fiberglass soon as i get done with my fiberglass kickpanels *you guys gotta see these *

tell me if the link works
http://www.camaroz28.com/readersrides/index.html

 

I built mine for about $30 in materials. If you have the tools available and are proficient with wood-working, it's not that hard. Hardest part is calculating internal area. Try to use right angles to make it easier. I made mine exactly the angles to fit in the hatch well and it was definately a challenge. Biggest tip- seal, seal, seal! I used wood glue and drive screws to put it together, then wood caulk, silicone sealant, and wood filler to seal the thing; as well as foam-rubber stripping around the speaker holes and terminal caps.

Good Luck!

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89' Firebird Formula
Black/grey cloth
305 TPI/5 speed/3.45 rear
dual cats/PW,PL/T-tops
K&N, SLP TB booster,
SLP exhaust, Jet chip

 

hey
if i were to build a box with a sigle 12 in it would i need cone(s)?
thanks
bub

 

ok another question.
what are the most important things to remember when making a box for a single 12 inch subwoofer to fit in the rear well?
thanks
bub

 

Man, I hate building a box and finding out that I missed it by 3/4 of an inch.

Brian

 

Jim, Im still here ... the old pics are still on the site. URL in sig... the pics will jsut give your an idea of the dimensions.

 

damn man, you went all out there didnt ya. it doesnt hurt to do this much work but its not really necessary. just remember this saying....

GLUE, SCREW, CAULK.

you dont really need glue, screw, caulk, sealant, filler. plus it doesnt sound as cool anyways.

jacob

 

no...never though of building a box.

camaro305>the link didnt work for me, where is it taking me?

 

I was reading a book one day on custom auto stereo system instalation and I was suprised at what they had to say about 3rd generation Camaro's and Firebirds natural stereo boxes. I have had some serious tunes in my car in the last 13 years. At one time I had 6 amps, 2 passive cross overs, 2 passive EQ's, 16 speakers with the remote boxes included and an obseen amount of watts. This is no B.S...
It was a hastle to keep up and it killed the batteries in about an hour or soo when I was stopped... so about 6 yrs ago or so I tore it all out.. Got this book out and ....

It said to cut out a piece of 3/4 inch heavy duty particle board, the kind that weighs a ton and has a lotta glue in it... It gave me the exact size ( It's still in my bird if you want know the size ) It goes over the top of the well in the back... Cut holes that will fit two 12's ... I put some grey carpet that matched my interior and assembled it. I even mounted my amps, CD changer and my crossover network on a board underneith the speakers and it's better than anything I have ever had. It was cheap..

I know my 82 Camaro had a hatch panel in the back which would have to be removed. My Firebird doesn't

 

I would indeed like those measurements if you you only be so kind as to post them

 

Here yea go.....

 

Thanks alot I have seen ALOT of guys ask the same question as the originator of this post, but no one has given a straight answer.

 

Plates.

Please don't waste your time with a plate. No matter what you do, it's going to suck. Your SPL is severely limited, and the sound quality is pretty similar to a monkey banging on a drum.

I read that "book" that 90Formula-X-F read. I built a plate. I should have realized that a $10 Radio Shack book wouldn't exactly be filled with accurate technical information, but what can I say? I was 18 and didn't know anything yet. The plate was the biggest waste of time I've ever done in car audio. I drove around for a year with the plate because I didn't have the time/facilities to build a box. When I finally upgraded to a box, the difference was tremendous. This was with the same amp and subs... the ONLY difference was that I upgraded from a plate to a box. Absolutely astounding difference. Without a doubt it was the biggest single improvement I ever made to a system.

 

LOL... Lets see.. Cost me all of about 15.00 to make and fits, seals and is as solid as could be. I've had more boxes than you could ever imagine. From Nakamichi to Fosgate and more in speakers. Fosgate, Concord, Nakamichi and Coustic in amps. If this is done correctly it converts the rear of your car into it's own box. Mine hits hard and has never moved in the back and is not fastened down. Use the 4 factory locations for speakers with a small 4 channel amp and then a good quality couple hundred watt amp and you'll be happy.. Just gotta do it right

 

what gauge of wire do you run with that?

 

What I would do If I wanted a cheap small box is first You know get the #s of how much space you need. Build a small square or rectangle box out of wood. THen get some fiberglass resin. Mix up some resin and pour it into the box. Let the layer of glass dry on the bottom. Then repeat the same shat for the other sides. You will need to tape down something to keep the resin in the box while the box is laying sidewayz. Be creative..One more thing if the wood is not cut right then This might leak through the seems and drip through the botton so coat the edges first to make it air tight then put the big layer to cover the bottom then sides.

 

I don't want this to sound like an arguement because everybody has their own opinions, but I've owned and built more than my share of boxes. Like I said above, I also had a plate. Unfortunately, a plate does not "convert" the back of the car to a box no matter how badly you want it to. Without completely isolating the rear well from the rest of the interior, you might as well hang the subs back there with coat hangers. The plate just stops the air from moving directly around the sub. It does nothing to stop it from traveling around the plastic panels and right back into the interior. The result is virtually no pressure differential between the front and rear sides of the sub. Without controlling sub excursion, you get gross amounts of distortion and substantially diminished sound quality. This is why free air subs are a necessity when doing this type of install. They are designed for setups where there will be no air pressure to control the motion of the cone, and use a stiff spider & surround to compensate.

BUT... that's only 1/2 of the problem. The other half is that the sound waves are still getting into the cabin. Because you're dealing with flimsy plastic panels, unless you reinforce them and make all of the joints 100% air tight (which would probably cost more than a box), you're still unable to isolate the front and rear sound waves. This produces cancellation, which results in greatly diminished output and sound quality.

I think that EVERYBODY that has a box in their car should make a plate. It costs very little, and it's a great learning experience. Install it, and make your own decision. You'll be amazed at just how inferior it really is to a good box.

 

I do stand corrected.. At one point I had a single 15" Pioneer Comp speaker as a center channel in a box that took up almost the whole center of my car with the rear seat folded down. I also ran two 10 inch pro punch's in a box beind that as mid-ranges. That was just three speakers of how many that I was runnning at that time. I am 43 years old now and grown up but at one time in my life I was involved with some pretty scary individuals. People who traded there goods for anything and everything. I was their mechanic and they had sheds upon sheds of car stereo equipment.. Stuff for days... I would get wired and spend 2 days wiring up as many watts and speakers as I could get in my car. Boxes of any and all demensions. You talk about a plate like it's some kind of cover or something. The one I built seals the whole back side of my car, No hang over at all.

Bunghole, You wanted the demensions .... You live in the same town I do. I'm restoring my car and have the stereo and cd changer out of it, just the speakers are in it. you wanna try it your welcome to.. The speakers are old now but the will still hit.. Message me

 

Dude. Don't waste your time trying to tell Jim that a plate can work well because he's obviously done it wrong and since he did, it sounded like crap. Now he's convinced that all plates must sound like crap.

I'm attaching a pic of mine. Right now I have a Pioneer 4 ohm 12", but before that I had a 12" 8 ohm MTX Thunder 3000, with a Punch 100 pushing it and I hit 135.5 dB. Not bad for a crappy plate huh?

And no Jim, I'm not the guy that fiberglassed his in, or bolted it in, or whatever you keep trying to accuse me of.

I will post again shortly and attach a simple drawing of what I did. You can look at it for yourself and then pass your judgement. And if you don't recall, I've invited you to the shop where I was in the SPL contest and achieved that 135.5 dB.

I will however give you this, the plate pictured above, might sound like crap, but that's not at all how I did mine.

AJ

 

Sorry I don't have the dimensions. It was about 2 yrs ago when I did this and my memory isn't as long as my..... well, you know.

Oh yea... if you want testimonies that it sounds good, ask 4mula88 and LFN AT U. They've both heard it.

AJ

 

I will testify for AJ, I was at England Dan's when he hit 135.5 dB.

IF you know how to adjust the gains on your amp you can make a plate like mine sound good but not great.

 

AJ, I'm not accusing you of anything.

If you want to think that I can't cut a plate to fit the well, feel free. I know what I had, and I know it was crap. My design sat flush with the upper part of the floor, basically just like the one that 90Formula-x-f posted. I had no air at all leaking around the plate. It all came through the plastic panel gaps. I could put a paper over the hatch mechanism and watch it dance up and down. Same with the vents in the spare tire cover, and all around the storage door on the driver's side.

I have not tried one like yours that sits lower. Nor have I tried porting it. I suspect that porting it might be the way to go for somebody that really is hell-bent on screwing around with plates. If you experiment with port sizes just a little bit smaller than what the sub calls for, the combination of the port and the rest of the leaky air might wind up giving decent results. The other 99% of the time, it's crap. I'm glad that yours is in the 1% that worked... I'm still not endorsing something that's as consistantly bad as a plate. Even a dogs *** gets sunshine once in a while. If Kicker or Rockford sold subs that only worked 1% of the time, I wouldn't reccomend their stuff either.

Your amp gain has absolutely nothing to do with making a plate sound good. All the gain does is allow you to match the pre-amp stage of the amplifier to the incoming signal voltage to ensure a maximum signal to noise ratio.

In a system where you only have 1 amp, you do have to use the gain as the "volume control" for the sub. But it still has nothing to do with the plate.

 

very nice

-fly

 

Plates suck. End of Story.

Sure they sound OKAY, or GOOD, or hit PRETTY HARD, but put the same **** thats on your plate in a box, and watch it do BETTER.

Plates SUCK.

 

I have and it doesn't.

AJ

 

Lets just put this pic right here. Hey if you try his and it doesnt work dont blame me cause I didnt take the mesuarements. I would just Measure my own Trunk and cut one board at a time based on the mesuarements that I get from the previous board.

 

CAMAROX84

If you havent built a box yet start with something simple. A camaro box can be a biznitch to make. I am not ueing a plate but have 2 diamon audio 12's in a custom box and they slam pretty well. And how do i find out what db's i hit....id love to get it mesures just for the heack of it.

but anyways unless your a pro start with somethign more simple than a camaro box.

Thease plates you guys speak of seem interesting. Ive honestly never seen that before....but im curious....if you have 2 subs on a plate wont there be to much of a ridiculous amount of airspace...im just curious cause ive never seen that done before...also if its non ported wont the subs distor eachother?

 

Others have, and it does. You tried, and it didnt work, so you say its not better. Many people have tried plates, they dont work, and they say its not better.

Its the same thing, so what makes it true when you say it and not when everyone else does? Open youre mind to the possibilty that your stuff in a box didnt sound better because maybe the setup was off.

I mean, Audio Theory Specialists and Professional Installers alike have been saying Plates are worse for the longest time, but how could all of their knowledge and experimentation compare to the one person who proved them all wrong with one goddamn install?

 

The amp rack is almost finished, all I need to do is for the amp is install the fans and make a plexi glass cover. The rectangular hole is for my cd player. The sub box needs lots of sanding so that I can spray the it same color red as the exterior. Like I said it's a start.

 

Man that rack rockz!!!!

 

I want to make a plate 4 my car, but I don't really understand how you made it can you explain more in depth to me or draw out a more detailed drawing please


also how do I make ports like yours, is it just pvc tubing with some sort of fancy cap that I havenever seen or do I have to buy ports...


also how thick is the particle board that you have?


and last where can i buy carpeting for my plate?

 

I never said that mine proves anything. And I do know how to calculate box dimensions. If you click on my profile, you'll see that I'm a sheet metal worker. All I do all day long is calculate what size duct work needs to be used to make a furnace work properly. Then I cut it out of raw, flat metal, bend it into the dimensions that I've calculated, form a piece of duct work out of what I've bent (whether it's straight, a transition, offset, elbow, or a plenum), install it, then a guy with a flow meter comes along and measures the airflow to make sure it meets the minumum requirements for the area it's flowing into. A wood box for a speaker is a frickin' cake walk for me. But why should I build one if I don't have to?

Besides........ let me quote you again.
All I did was reponded to what you told me to do, and gave you the results. I never said that boxes suck. I never said that plates are better. I'm just posting what I've done, experienced, and the results that came from it.

Who needs to open their mind?

AJ

 

I'll PM you. OK?

AJ

 

Thanks for the compliment redbird_400!

 

I'm sorry dsaint1347.

I was going to post that I like yours. I got side tracked.

Obviously you made that top portion out of fiberglass? Looks like a lot of work. I don't know how to form fiberglass. I work with it everyday in the form of duct liner, but it's just insulation. :sillylol:

I looks like it's coming along well. Looks like it'll kick butt when your done. Are you going to light up the amp rack at all?

That's just way more work that I want to put into something like that. I focus my attention to engine stuff. It's what I enjoy more. Plus I don't know if I'd have the creativity. Another reason I stick to engines.

Looks good though. Post pics when it's done.

AJ

 

alrighty, still haven't recived it yet though

 

Ahhhh, so youres DOESNT prove anything.

Well, we both agree on that. Anyways, im sorry you couldnt get the box you tried to sound better. Since you are pretty confident that the box was built perfectly, I'd give it another go. What the heck, if you cant get it to sound better and louder, gimme a hollar. I can try to help you tune that sucker to get better sound of it (i mean, theres only so many things that can go wrong tuning, we should get it sounding better than that plate in no time )

Bending sheet metal's fun, isnt it? We get to do that stuff all day in Architecture Studio. Complex curves are the most fun. You can make an entire scale model of an apartment off a vertical plane without adding material if youre creative, supports and all! That was our final last year....

 

I'll tell you what... I'll give you the same invite as I gave Jim a while ago (to which he never responded). The next time you are in Chicago, Indianapolis, Champaign, or anywhere near me, let me know. I will drive there, pick you up, drive you to the stereo shop where I had mine tested, and you can see for yourself. That'll give you about 1+ hour to listen to my system.

Then, if you think you can do any better by building a box "better" than I did, and be louder at the same time, then have at it. I'll buy all the materials you need. I'll even buy you dinner and put you up for the night.

And I'll tell you again. The box I built was perfect. Pioneer recommends 1.5 cu.ft. and that's what the internal dimensions where. And IT wasn't ported. I just did that to my plate to experiment. Actually I don't like it as well with the ports. The bass seems to sustain too long now. And too muddy.

And just an FYI, I've built more boxes than years I've lived. You're not going to do any better than I did. How's this? You and I both build boxes and I bet you $500 dollars that yours isn't any better or have a higher SPL. Granted we both use the same type of material, as well as the same thickness. How's that sound?

Better yet. If you think you can build a box PERIOD that will have a higher SPL than my plate, then the same $500 bet, OK?

AJ

 

Why would i build you another box? You said yours is perfect, and im willing to believe you, since you have so much experinece in metal and wood work. Thats why im suggesting that it must be something in the tuning of your system that was affecting your performance with the sealed box. Hence why i said we could play with the TUNING. Im quite sure your box was great, no argument there.

An hour should be plenty of time, and if im ever out that way, id be glad to meet up and play with it, although being a full time student, i dont travel much. But tell you what, you ever head out to Buffalo or Syracuse with it, ill be glad to meet you as well. Sounds like fun

I dont know why a pissing contest over box building is necessary, you must have mis-read, i never said i could build a better box.

 

dsaint1347

That set up looks awsome. I just finished a similar one on my car. MY ampr rack is virtually i dentical to what you have but i where you have those 4 holes mine is totall open. How did you secure it down? I have mine connected to my box. i was afraid to drill the rack down since my fuel pump is right there, unless im mistaken about how close it is.

 

fuel tank - about 3/4" or so.

- Andy

 

Your right Ninja, on some parts its even closer. What I did was use a flat metal bracket and drill one part to the amp rack and then remove the side plastic panels and drill it on the side brackets. Hope that helps.