Good news. I'm gonna have all the money I need to start college. Therefore, the 1500 I have saved so far this summer goes toward my car. I have a few ideas:

How hard is it to replace a cam in a V6? I'm getting the headers and a new exhaust, got ram air, the engine is only 20,000 mi or so, and runs great. I want to know how hard a cam replacement would be, what I'd have to take apart to replace it, if I'd have to take out the engine, and if I'd have to replace any other parts. What kind of HP/Torque difference would this make?

-OR-

Would I notice more acceleration with a 3:73 posi rear? How much does a brand new one price, and how much usually for installation? I know top speed would decrease, but I really don't give a rip about that.

Give me any tips on stuff you think I should spend this money on. My ideas so far:
MSD 8.5 wires, maybe dist. rebuild (not too necessary tho, I think), cam, gears, Port and polish heads (got the dremel, could I do this myself?)

thanks guys

 

The cam could be installed with the engin in the car, however you'll have to remove the radiator/ aut trans cooler if you have one to be able to manuever the new cam into the car. If memory serves me correctly, you have to remove the timing chain cover and oil pan to get access to the cam..

as far as i know, you can't buy "NEW" 3.73 Posi Rears... Expect to pay around 200-400 dollars in the boneyard for one. You best bet is to find one on 83-85 Trans Ams...

:hail: Distributor Rebuild :hail:

 

this is gonna sound retarded, but where exactly does the cam go? between the heads above the crank right? Do i need to remove the heads?

 

If you are serious about installing a new cam ,I would strongly suggest getting a shop manual. There are so many things that can get tore up if you dont get the cam in time or if it is installed improperly.
Always use new lifters with a new cam .
You should also replace the timing chain and gears while you are in there.

 

this is gonna sound retarded, but where exactly does the cam go? between the heads above the crank right? Do i need to remove the heads?

NOT BEING MEAN!!!
BUT
Spend your time keeping car running strong.
AND Learning where a cam gets installed.

You have 20K on your engine & you want to rip it apart, but, you're not sure where the cam goes.
Who will install these headers & pipes for you?

A cam is a VERY GOOD UPGRADE it you have the knowledge and money to have the installation done correct.
AND that's what I really "not being mean" suggest to ya.

PS Chase the CUTE GIRLS YOU'LL MEET IN COLLEGE.
Pays off way better in the end.
Promise
The cute girls do not reside under the hood of your car, that still runs reliable and gets you back to studying and flirting, without a breakdown or a PARTY dollar spent.

Revenge on Ricers?
Steal their CUTE Girlfriends!
Especially the ones with the SHORT Skirts, LONG Legs, LONG Hair, CUTE Butts

 

On the contrary, you can buy brand new gears all day long from several different manufacturers. Most companies sell 3.73 ring & pinions gears for aprox $200 new. You just need to know what carrier you have (Series 2 or series 3). You can find out this info easily by just looking up your axle code a hayes manual or such. The axle code should be stamped on the front right axle tube just to the side of the differential.

If your axle is not a posi, you can purchase a 10 bolt 7.5 posi from many different companies as well for aprox. $300-$350 new.

Or- look for a used axle in a junkyard with any of the following codes:

6JQ - 1985 yr w/ 3.73 posi
6PN - same
6PQ - same

10032250 - 1985 yr w/ 3.70 posi Borg Warner
10032274 - same + 1986 also

8XF - 1986 yr w/ 3.70 posi
8XX - same

After 1986, the highest ratio offered stock is a 3.45 borg warner

Your only problem here is your brakes. The '85 & '86 calipers and rotors are inferior to your '89 rear brakes. I believe you have the 1LE brakes now?

The entire gear package new and installed will probably run you $500 if you already have posi.

 

As for the cam replacement, the reason I want to do that is because it would teach me some valuable lessons, and help me boost performance at the same time. I would have some help, so I wouldn't be just guessing at everything. I really want to get into the hardcore stuff and that would be a good place to start.

As for the rear end, I would have a pro install that. My brakes, I know they're drum brakes so I doubt thats the 1le. Would you reccommend going disc? HOw much does that cost. Thanks for all the info on the gears! I'm gonna check out a couple salvage yards next weekend.

 

he was talking about the ENTIRE rear end







i bought a 94 Z28 rear for $200.............so figure that
its posi/disc/3.23's

$175 for a Richmond 3.73 ring and pinion

$200 for ring and pinion installation

and you should be able to install the rear yourself............

its not rocket science

so figure $600

get the cam also

you'll have to remove most of your front engine accessories to install it. etc.

i'm not 100% sure if you need to remove the radiator on a V6 car, i know you have to on a V8 car though.........MITE have enough room

cam is $170, figure about another $100 in gaskets, etc.............
so $300 if you do it yourself

and if you plunge that far might as well get your heads rebuilt/ported/1.6 rollers

and port your intake

without the porting i dont see how ANY of this will be worth the bother

 

thanks for the info...Im gonna see how much of this I can pull off before the end of august.

The cam replacement seems like a lot of other stuff will need replacement too, so I will probably wait til I can do all of that stuff at once

So the rear is coming first. Some one on here said 3.73's dont make much difference and to go to 4.10s....is that true? Would it be a wise decision for a daily driver?

 

3.73's are even pretty bad for a daily driver


since i'm smart and i dont race my V6, i mite swap rears with my Z28

2.73/posi........great gas mileage/economy


i'm 100% dead serious i might do it

 

I'm assuming since you have an '89 that you have a 3.1 motor with 3.23 gears. If this is true then going to 3.73 would be a very good thing considering you retain the factory height tires(25.7" aprox.) The motor will rev quicker and you'll have noticable torque gains when it comes to putting the power to the pavement. You'll lose aprox 10mph on top end. (actually about 15mph at the same rpm but the torque will allow you to pull alittle higher revs in top gear).

The 2.8 motor would not be wise to do this with beacause of its weak crank area. It is not advised to rev them above 4000rpm's to often, only occationally. The 3.1 & 3.4 motors are stronger.

Also, you'll have to change your VSS gears to match the 3.73 (speedo gear in trans shaft- easy to replace) they run aprox $26. If you have a rev limiter built in the car computer, you may want to run 4.11VSS speedo gears so your speedo will read slightly lower than what you are actually doing. This will fool the computer and able you to run a slightly higher mph.

 

1985?-1989 F-Bodies had 2.8's w/3.42 open/drum rears.
1990-92 3.1 Auto- 3.23, Manual 3.42, both open/drum

Is that true about not revving it past 4000? I do that all the time, its where the car finally kicks in.... 4500 a lot of the time..... but I always change my oil early.

 

Oops, sorry I missed that 3.1 thing by one year.

I have a 2.8 and have long learned if you are hard on them, they are hard on you. You'll end up with about a half an inch endplay on the crank in no time.
After a good 8000 mile breakin, I always run full synthetic oil in my cars. You can not break in an engine properly running synthetic from the get go. Todays engines are not like the days of old. The rings are so hard nowadays it sometimes takes a good 8,000 to break them in, then you can switch to synthetic oil. I presently drive a '89 chev 1/2ton truck with 400,000 miles on the original crank bearings. I have never had the bottom end apart and have owned it since it was new. I contribute this to full synthetic oil. I am Hard on this truck daily and its amazingly still ticking strong. Everyone that knows me thought it would have blown up yrs ago. Its entirely modified except for the bottom end of the motor but never gets a degree above 185* running temp either.

Oh yea, and yes it has a Currie Enterprises 9"rearend with 3.70's and a Detroit Locker/ and sporttruck rear disc assembly.

 

Hmmm....I rev my 2.8 to 5500 alot.
I'm not concerned about losing a few mph off the tops speed.

I just want to make things a lot easier while passing/merging, getting on to the interstate, cutting off ricers, etc.

My tire sizes are 215/70/15s if that changes things. I don't know exactly what stock size it. The guy I bought it from had little crazy low rider tires. But I think mine have a little extra sidewall.

 

You can run any engine to any RPM until it breaks.
What about the 2.8?
IF your support system is in good shape you can run to about 5,000 and have an effective engine.
IF your engine is weak (old valve springs, old electronics old uncleaned fuel system worn fuel pump, clogged inefficent exhaust, worn timing chain), you are wasting your time trying for RPMs past 4,000.
These engines, especially the 2.8 are the weak ones. They run outta steam early.
Your 2.8/3.1 cam kicks in about 2800-3200 RPM to 4,000.
The 3.4 is a flat linear torque climb to a solid 5,000RPM. Because of the better springs in the heads and the better cam profile plus larger bore & stroke. I don't waste RPMs after close to 5,000 until I get better exhaust system installed.

Which is why I say the 3.4 pulls like a Freight Train. Strong and for long.

I had my Blazer 2.8 for 145,000 (my ownership) of 211,500 miles until it died. I know the weaknesses very well.
V-8's well maintained, can run almost forever.
You did great!
Change oil every 3K or longer with sythetics?
I run regular oil (3K+ mi. changes) & am pleased.
IF I had NEW vehicle, I would change oil changing habits, tho.
Almost wouldn't know what to do to a new vehicle anymore.
Bummer.

 

Weak Crank Area??? :sillylol: Oh really? That's a new one! Funny how I've taken (and still do) my 1986 2.8l, with +236,000 miles, over 4000 RPM many many MANY times. Just like your '89 truck, I'm also using the original main bearings. I would love to hear your reason on why my motor is still fine.

What exactly did GM do to strengthen the crank for the 3.1 and 3.4, but not for the 2.8? I'm very curious to know; otherwise, I'm calling "BS"!

There was a "small journal" crank from 82-84, which had one large journal (#3, I believe), and the rest were small. GM redesigned the 2.8 crankshaft in '85, and from that year on, all crank journals were the same size as the 82-84's 3rd journal; aka, the "large journal" crank. And in '87, with the addition of the new counterweight (for DIS-equipped Gen II 2.8's), the crankshaft became internally balanced. You might have some foundation in calling an 82-84 crank (and if we talk about all 2.8's, 80-84) weak, but to blanket all 2.8 crankshafts with a "weak crank area" statement is false.

I also haven't heard anything about a 3.4 or 3.1 crank being stronger than a 2.8 crank. And why have I taken my poor old, tired motor past 4000 RPM, and it's still alive? I must have a gotten a rare forged crankshaft, eh? What's even stranger (to you) is that I've never run synthetics through the motor.

Please don't throw out this kind of false crap. Thanks!

 

Tom,
This one is not false crap.
Back when 60* V-6 was introduced, MANY of these 2.8 things self-destructed.
WHY?
Drivers, back then, drove the $hit outta them, thinking of the good ole V-8 days.
Rev'd them til they flew apart.
Why rev'd so much & so high?
That was the only way to get these damn things to MOVE, THERE WAS NO V-8 TORQUE with these 2.8 to new 1980-1985 2.8 V-6 owners.
IF THE TRANSMISSION HELD UP!!
Remember, these new car purchasers came outta Ford LTD's & BIG Trucks, Caddy's.
All cars that DRANK GAS STATIONS EMPTY.
America was in a recession (1979-1982 or so) & it was bleak.
Gas rationing was coming, again, for third time since world war 2.
America didn't like these 2.8 V-6 road kills.
Drove 'em til they exploded, and that was real quickly.
Think 1980-84 Citations, Phoenix, Skylarks, Omega.
See any of them on the road lately?
Remember Fiero?
Yeah the early V-6s have the bad & deserved rap of weak crank problems.
Yes, design upgrade in the 1985 S-10 Block (like I had to give up, bummer, bye!) to end of 1989 model year.
3.1 & 3.4 is a much stronger all around engine block, on the bottom end.
Heads/top intake, exhaust between 2.8-3.1 are the same.
The 3.4 engine package is the best of the 60* V-6 design.
Tom, after a while of on the road longevity (later on 80's to early 90's), the 1980-87 2.8 V-6 engines were almost as bad a granade!
The current on the road 60* V-6 cars (back then) exploded like this Model T Ford I saw trying to make it over the Pasadena hill.
All the sudden, POOF BLACK OIL SMOKE CLOUD
It's dead Jim.

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


:hail: :lala: because some of you must be inhaling way too much exhasut gas

 

I have to agree with Tomp on this one , The early 2.8 cranks were crap . But they greatly improved them , there is nothing wrong with the later 2.8 cranks they are pretty durable.
Any engine will blow if you run the **** out of them.

 

No , it doesn't sound retarded . We all have to learn somehow .


Alot of times cams aren't in the same place as ours' are , you have also and you can have more than one , but not in our cars .

DOHC - double overhead cam which means 2 cams above each head .

SOHC - single " " 1 cam above each head .

 

Tom P, Kiss my *** you arogant pr*ck. This is factual info that any GM mechanic than has worked on these engines over the years will tell you. Hel!, they even nickname 'em 2.crap. Pull your timing cover and grab ahold of your crank and tug it back and forth and you'll see for yourself. Your engine hours are numbered my friend and there won't be any rebuild after that long.

I also did not say weak crank, I said weak crank area meaning the entire assembly- journals and all was bad engineering and they fixed it better in the 3.1 & 3.4

This info came to me 1st hand from Mike English. Who is Mike English, Only the most respected GM parts man around. Some of you may reconize the name for Hot Rod Mag. Mike writes articles for them when ever something pertains to over the counter GM parts for hotrod applications. Mike is and has been a personal friend of my fathers and myself for 15+ yrs.

I listed this info only as a friendly warning to anyone hotroding a 2.8 and this guy attacks me verbaly. This is factual free advise passed from very creditable sources, take it with a grain of salt if you wish. Just know that if you are hard on it, there is no rebuild and you are looking for a new motor.

 

You better do some more reading .
The 1985and later 2.8 ,3.1 and 3.4 had the exact same size rod and main journals, so wheres the improvement in the 3.1 and3.4.
The ONLY differance is bore and stroke and the top end.
There is NO NEED IN GETTING NASTY IN A GOOD DEBATE !

Lets face the facts the Only engines that are truly built heavy enough for serious mods and ripping and raring are the 90* engines.
Our 60* are good engines when they are taken care of and not dogged to death.

 

No thanks, I'm straight.

Haha, I'm arrogant? Then prove me wrong! Tell me exactly what is stronger in a 3.1 & 3.4 compared to a 2.8! If all you can do is spout opinion without fact, then you're just as arrogant. I gave you facts, where are yours? I'm still waiting.

No, in fact, I don't CARE about the 3.4. Tell me what is so much stronger with the 3.1! At least they are the same block. The 3.4 is a completely different block. So, between a 2.8 and 3.1, what is stronger on the 3.1? Tell me! Or, can't you? C'mon, give me a real answer, fellow *****!

Chances are, your mechanic friends are seeing 2.8's that have been abused in the maintenance aspect- no oil changes, neutral drops or clutch dumps, redlining, misfiring, out-of-time (and therefore, detonation), beat-up motors. Because hell, how many 237,000 mile 2.8's have your mechanic friends seen? How many? I'll bet none. If your info is so accurate, then how the hell is my engine still running?

Oh- and if you paid attention on these boards, I'm planning on rebuilding a lower mileage 87-up junkyard motor for my Firebird. I don't plan on rebuilding this one.

 

Tom is it a true rarity that some of these original 2.8's last as many miles as some of us, do, stretch out of them.

From reading every performance hot rod type mag, I recited the truth about the early 2.8's.
AND your statement of previous owner abuse, certainly did contribute to the 2.8's early death & destruction.
BUT that is truth for the MAJORITY of the 2.8's released.
What is exactly stronger, where....
I just accept that it's a better design from same sized parts.
To me it's amoot point.
When these final on the road today 2.8 engines die, throw them away.
Pull the heads & intakes, but get a fresh rebuilt bottom end with tighter clearances & better parts selected, so the engine need not return for any warranty work.

 

True; in fact, I can't wait to check my cam lobe lift on this engine, after I swap motors. I bet my cam is worn down to nothing! And like you said, any engine can blow; a foreign car repair shop might say that all american-made motors are weak.

 

Thanks Teal, that was what I meant. I don't know how many of us can afford to buy the new GEARS, new POSI, and new DISC CONVERSIONS KIT to put on the rear end we already have.

 

this guy is a fu(king joker

i'm calling him out............i'll bet this dude is like a 15 year old who doesnt even own a vette OR a f-body


somebody HAS DEFINETLY been sucking on their exhaust pipe


TomP, dont listen to this idiot, YOUR GREAT!


oh yeah, i'm a GM mechanic, and i've never heard such a thing

SUCK OFF, SUCKA!

 

Proof for the ****** clones.

 

See, I'm the same 15 yr old punk sitting in the Vette above. Kiss my *** again. Good luck with your pocket books when your frikin motors blow apart.

Tom, the GM tech manual you somehow got your hands on and quote from with all of the great info you give will not state this kind of info. Its not something GM will print and release. Stock holders would be really happy if that was a standard practice.

As for the 2.8, Mike says its something to do with engine noise/ vibrations/harmonics that the 3.1 doesn't suffer from because of the larger displacement or something. I'm not the expert, he is.
I never claimed to be an expert and my quote stated info from another very, very creditable source whose expertise I regard alot higher than any GM STUDENT mechanic that has to wrench on things like chevy chevettes, Oh What Fun.

 

you act just like a little kid too......................

hmmmmm this is the internet.......you could have gotten that pic from anywhere.........................


thats some real proof

thats like when some guy thinks he talking to a hot girl, but its really some big-*** inmate named Bubba:sillylol:





:sillylol: AfikinGoodTime:sillylol:

 

The nerve of calling Tom arrogant . Last time I recalled , it wasn't tom of walked up in here and made a post questioning our advice and stating your gambling with peoples money . The day I see arrogance from Tom , is the day blue marshins will be invading us and stealing all the f-bodys !

 

[edit] Oh, nevermind. I was really hoping for better proof than "proof2.bmp". I still say your mechanic friend was talking about poorly maintained 2.8's. Plus, if the harmonics are better in a 3.1, couldn't you have a 2.8 and 3.1 with the same "crank area", and the 2.8 has worse harmonics, and fails? So it would seem to say that the crank area isn't different, but the harmonics are. I don't think many of the people in here with 2.8's (including my +200,000 mile motor) have blown their v6's up due to weak crank areas, but most people in here have maintained their 2.8's.

 

right on, wayne!

 

I wanted to address this yesterday when I first read it but ran out of time.

Stuart, the guy that made this post asked about the gears and can he get the assembly new. Now you said no. I POLITELY replied that you could buy new gears and posi for your old rearend or gave him the other option of finding an entire used one in a junkyard. You and this teal( whats teal bytheway, thought only **** used that word, around here we would say green) jump my *** and say he was talking about an entire new stock rearend of that nature. Then you two try some kind of tagteam bs that I'm the idiot and not everybody has money for a new posi and gears?

Tell me this, what is more expensive? new posi & gears/ or an entire new rearend from GM like you originally say he was asking for?

Do the two of you stop to think about what you are writing or are you just here to defend your little click of friends. You guys completely contradicted yourselves with these statements.

TomP, even though we aren't getting along here, I must say you do have my respect as to the info you give to others. Where it comes from doesn't matter, just as long as it help others and I think it does. Just don't jump my *** like that. You have a right to disagree with what I say, but please be respectful. I'm not a young punk kid throwing out fly by night info. If something I've been told is from a creditable source I will share it and like I said, take it with a grain of salt, but just know my intentions are good and open for a civil debate.

I've been around race cars and teams since I was in diapers and one think I can share is that as much as I know about chev V8's, these little computer controlelled 60* V6's are an entirely new adventure for me. I thought it would be fun to build one because of its lightweight for cornering ability and am in here collecting as much info as well as elsewhere on the durability of them. I was mainly brought here on word of the headers.
Thank you, Dean

My only guess on the 2.8/3.1 thing is the heavier topend maybe dampens the bottom end more at higher rpms on the 3.1. I don't know foresure, go figure, all I know is he distinctly told me not to rev the 2.8 above 4000 to often, only occationally because the crank area cannot hold up to the stress. I don't argue with a gentleman of his stature & credentials. He knows well that I have a later version of the 2.8('87), He told me this when he got it for me a few years back. He tried to get me to put a 3.4 in it but I didn't want to mess with it at that time because I could not find headers for it. I figured I just leave it stock and buy her another car in a year or two. Its only the wifes car and I had other things on my plate. Two or three months later they came out with the HT3.4 with 194LBS torque and I've been icthing ever since to do something with this car.

 

Your spitting out words, but not giving us proof!

WHERE IS THE PROOF THAT YOU CAN BUY A WHOLE NEW REAR END ASSEMBLY???? Show us and we'll leave you allone. But, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't one available.

Why are you accussing me in this WAR of yours??? I keep myselfout o these when I can. Me and Teal are "tagteam partners" ???, thats a good one.... I didn't "jump" on you like you said. They did. I simply said one could get a used rear end with all these options for a LOT less from a boneyard.

 

Stuart, Stuart, Stuart. If my proof was not enough for you then I tell you what, in your sig area you list Guldstrand parts. When you finally get money to purchase these parts, make a call to Dick Guldstrand personally at his shop and tell him One of the Ekas boys with the '68 Vette (we all have Vettes) suggested you call him for advice on your Camaro swaybars. Dick nows me and the car very well, I was a driver in his GRA race team for about 5 yrs and have known Mr.Guldstrand all of my life. Matter of fact he and my father go back at least 40 yrs.

Now what better proof can you get than that.

About the New rear end from GM, You can't buy that like you said. What part of this conversation did I lose you? Teally Baby suggested to me earlier in the post that C89Dude was looking for the entire rearend, then you satate "who can afford that when I merely suggested just the gears and maybe posi. Maybe you should jump eachothers asses for once, but then again I would get bored with noone to converse with.

 

I talked to Mike about this and here's your answer almighty Tom. The 2.8 was redesigned1985 with the larger crank journals as found on the 3.1 & 3.4, However the crank was stroked for the 3.1 and carried over to the 3.4 which ended up having better balancing/harmonics allowing higher revs more often. The 2.8 has a 76mm stroke where as the 3.1 & 3.4 have a 84mm stroke.

My comment to him was that with V8s it is the opposite. a 327 will rev higher and easier than a 350 because of the smaller stroke. His reply was "yes, but with the V6/60's no. Its just a matter of design and balance and it takes years of R & D to figure these things out."

 

As far as the gears:
I could get a whole new rear with drum brakes (same as what I got now) buts its a 3.73 posi. I can get it for $150, good shape. Worth it?
I also can get a 3.42 posi, same price, but 3.42's are what I have now. Only difference is the posi. The posi itself wouldnt make much difference would it?

I think I'm gonna get the 3.73s.

 

no thanx, i dont take after your queer ways

 

for a relatively weak car that has no real traction problems, not having posi is no big deal

 

Of those choices I would go with the one you are thinking of-3.73 posi/ drum for $150 sounds like a good deal. Most disc rearends are about $500-$600.

Posi will help you corner better!

 

Funny how I already mentioned the 85-up cranks! And there's still no basis for calling the 2.8 lower end "weak". The 3.4 might be stronger because of these harmonics, but that doesn't mean the 2.8/3.1 has a weak lower end. "weaker", maybe, but not "weak".

 

I dont even accept the harmonics part. Somebody's all wet on that one.

 

(again)

i bought my posi/disc/3.23 rear for $200

and yes everything works

and yes it included brakes and rotors

there are better deals out there


hell, if anybody wants this come get it:

i have a 2.73/pois/drum rear

COME GET IT FOR FREE

I DONT WANT IT!!!

(who ever said i dont do anything nice for you guys)

 

i even talked with GM mechanics at work (some with 35 years experience) and they said they never heard of such a thing

 

No kidding! Hm.

 

be careful Tom, he might accuse us of "tag-teaming"

 

apparently i think u can get a complete rear end new

http://www.rearman.com/rears.htm

camaro89dude,
why not just get a posi takeoff unit ..ull then have a 3.42 posi..??
why the 3.73 ? the 3.73s are gonna kill u if u do highway miles a lot

 

Read what was on the top of that page buddy:
Those are "REBUILT" not "NEW"

As far as the Posi Take Offs Go, our rear end has 28 spline and the take-offs have a 30 spline. However the 91-92 axles have the 30 spline, so you could use those axles...

 

Nope, no tag teaming here!

Oh and there is a brand new 12 bolt available; I forget the company. It's basically one of their 12 bolt axles with a special bracket to take our torque arm. Shoot, what's the damn name... they're a popular axle maker. AGH! Oh well, it'll come to me. The axle's also about $3000.