HI92Z28

52mm
58mm

Car is pretty stock, might go with headers later on. I just want a simple bolt-on. How's the installation?

TBurke

Reply the 52 is the better choice for a stock or mild motor. A 58 is for bigger cube high RPM engines. You should smooth out the area behind the throttle body on the plenum and open it up to match the 52mm TB. It would take a whole lot of grinding to port match the plenum to 58mm throttle body.

88TPI406GTA

Don't waste your money. The stock one is fine into the 12's. Instead buy a set of good runners and port your plenum. If the mods match your sig, you will be happier spending the $$$ that way. Look at the AS&M Large Tube or save your $$$.

Guest

I wouldnt get a BBK TB if I were you. Look for posts by me and 58mm TB.
Their customer service doesnt exist, so if you need yours fixed (like I did) good luck!

88TPI406GTA

Actually, I would revise that and include also spending the money on headers/complete exhaust system, including Hi-Flo cat or test pipe. It would help more than the runners right now. The engine needs to breathe and the stock manifolds are the biggest restriction....right up there with the stock runners.

HI92Z28

So 52mm will be the better choice? I'm pretty set on the TB. Any HP increase? Thanks guys for the info.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

I will say what I have said before. You send me your TB and I will magically make it flow more than your engine needs. I will do this feat for an Arbys Market Fresh Sandwich. What more could you ask?

HI92Z28

Thanks for the offer. But I will be without a car .

Any improvements with a ported stock TB or the "BBK" 52mm?

SMURFN' Z28

iTrader: (2)

dude dont waste 300 bones on a TB, just get an air foil and an APFR, port the hell out of all your TPI stuff and start saving for headers.... a TB is just a waste of money unless you have some serious work done. even then, the TB is not the worst bottle neck in the TPI intake.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

i was trying to say that.

SMURFN' Z28

iTrader: (2)

i thought so but i felt it necessary to clarify that
it would be a shame for another person to waste money on something that will slow thier car down if it does anything in the 1st place. well thats my .02 cents, take or leave it.

82resto

If you're pushing 450 hp out of that nearly stock 350... go for a bigger TB. But, seeing as how that's not the case, spend your money on headers, and then runners and a new intake manifold, seeing as how those are the corks in a TPI system..


Jon

HI92Z28

Thanks for the GREAT info. But will it really slow my car down?

HI92Z28

I also like that cool sound it makes

388iroc

for the love of *** listen to these people, they know what theyre talking about. if you want to blow your money go ahead, if you actually want to go faster listen to them. i see whats going to happen (no offense intended) you're going to go ahead and get the throttle body anyway and then youre going to get into a race where you think youre going to win...YOU LOSE! oh ****! youre going to think to yourself, i should have gone with the other mods. go and look at the suggested mods for tpi in the tech articles. i know cause i used to be like you, the sound it makes?! my friends 4 cyl tacoma makes a cool sound with the intake but thats completely different. that and if you do all the porting and things then when you tell people youll sound like you know what youre doing and people will take you more seriously, plus you will have learned something. that was a little longer than expected but i hope you got the point. good luck. by the way i have a 383 with the stock tb (not for long) and i do just fine.

HI92Z28

Nobody answer me question. Will I lose performance by adding the TB.

MikeH

iTrader: (10)

Madmax...I thought **** like that only happened to me.

I think unless you already changed the runners and base the money would be better spent elsewhere.

HI92Z28

I "WILL" eventually go with the headers, ported runners and intake manifold ect..., but need something "FAST" bolt on for this weekend's race with a friend. The the "POINT" i'm trying to get is will this HURT MY PERFORMANCE!

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

It will do absolutely nothing for performance. For the same money buy runners and actually gain performance. That is what these kind people are trying to say.

HI92Z28

BBK and other manufactors "claims" increase performance (HP) with a bigger better flowing TB. So your saying there wrong? I have many friends with LS1 Vettes and Camaros, most of them did a TB swap and noticed a increase in HP.

388iroc

you said it...ls1...with a supercharger and fuel system you can get almost 600 horse out of those things, you have a tpi, very restrictive intake. get k&n and flowmasters or runners, or...like I SAID BEFORE get the tb and loose but dont come crying back asking what to do next, **** if money is no object by some nos slap it on and call it a day. please dont tell me youre racing one of your friends with an ls1 cause you might as well save your gas.
p.s. runners you could install in a day and same with exhaust, or just tell the guy you need to do something first, or dont except a race unless your ready.

HI92Z28

Damm fool? Why you calling me a fool for? My friends LS1 Vette is all stock with the exception on the BBK TB. I have a friend with a Holley TB on his 89 IROC and he had better track times with the Holley TB, all stock motor, stock exaust manifolds and a Flowmaster cat-back exaust.

And I did not "say" with a supercharger and fuel system. READ. CHECK OUT MY SIG. What do you mean loose? You mean lose? SO WHAT IF I LOSE! I DON"T CARE IF I LOSE.

TBurke

If you don't care about losing, put the 300 on the line for the race and fork it over to the other guy when you loose.

Or do something useful like buy a set of intake runners. You don't have to be a great mechanic to install these. This was one of my first mods with very little mechanical experience. It was no problem to install.

Speaking from experience this was a bad mistake I put oversize runners on a stock 305 with the factory exhaust. The car fell on its face. Once I did the exhaust the car hauled ***.

You have an exhaust already go with the runners and skip the throttle body.

Myself like many of the other guys trying to give you some advice have done this before and know what works and what doesn't.

mean 5.7

I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU WILL LOSE ANY POWER BUT IT WILL BE A MINIMAL GAIN
GO AHEAD AND GET IT IF YOU ARE SERIOUSE ABOUT YOUR OTHER MODS IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT ORDER YOU BY THEM IN ONCE THEY ARE ALL ON YOU WILL DEFINATELY NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE
AND LOVE IT
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECT HOPE YOU SEE RESULTS LIKE MINE
OH YEAH MY FIRST RUN EVER WAS A 15.4 NOW I'M AT 14.1AND BY THE WAY MY FIRST MOD WAS THE THROTTLE BODY AND IT IS A BBK 52mm THROTTLE BODY

88TPI406GTA

Sigh...the "Search" function must AGAIN be broken, right?

I will summarize...the stock TPI throttle body is dual 48mm. This is the same TB that is on the Ramjet 502...do you still think it is a restriction on your engine? Also, doesn't the LS1 use a MONO blade TB? Just like the Rustangs? Maybe there IS a difference between a single 70mm blade and twin 48mm blades in flow...the twin blades flow more...

Yes, you will lose some torque because like everything else, the TB is part of a system and unless you plan to run lower than mid 12's, ie a lot more HP than you have now, the stock TB will be fine.

Even if money isn't an object, don't buy things that you don't need. Upgrade the intake if you "need" a bolt-on item now. then soon, upgrade the whole exhaust system. Your car will love you for it.

TBurke

Mean 5.7: When are you going to get into some inatake mods?

14.1 isn't bad but you could hit 13's for a few hunderd bucks.

Adam62083

Screw all of you guys. I got a 52 mm Thorttlebody for 150 bucks and it made a gain.

A 52 mm on a stock TPI setup will yeild a gain. Not a huge one, but you will get hp from it. I suggest you get headers first like I did though.

88TPI406GTA

Yeah, I guess that it must have made a gain...otherwise you wouldn't have spent money on it, right? Or how about this one...it HAS to work because the rest of the TPI intake AFTER the TB couldn't be MORE restrictive than the stock TB, right?

The rationalization train keeps right on chugging along

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

This quote is getting beaten to death.
Yeah, its used on the 502, but honestly, how much more power wouldthe 502 make with a larger throttle body? Alot more. That 48mm TB is choking that 502, no doubt about it.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

88ws6,

Please do not make statements with no factual basis. That is not good practice on this board.

88TPI406GTA

88 WS6...the point is that it makes over 500 HP with one and over 550 ft/lb of torque. Is the same TB a restriction on a mildly modded L98?

BTW, there is a reason why the quote receives so much attention...deductive reasoning

HI92Z28

Thanks mean 5.7 and Adam62083 thats all I wanted to hear IS GAINS!!!!!!!!! Not losing or wining. You guys are the "BEST" in helping a friend and a fellow 3rd gen member in need of advice.

88TPI406GTA

Why let a simple thing like logic get in the way of a preconceived idea? If you were going to put it on anyway, why ask?

The point is that you still aren't thinking in terms of a system and the fact that a N/A engine is different than a forced induction system (of which I see that you own two of).

I personally AM trying to help you here. Just because a mod is easy, doesn't mean it is necessary.

The better question here is how much power will you make with your final combo? N/A or forced induction?

Also, why not bolt on some suspension mods to take advantage of the power when you get it?

These are all questions that remain unanswered and should be thought of in terms of a systematic answer to the question.

Adam62083

No it made a gain because I saw a drop in my 1/4 et. Now get off your high horse and be realistic.

The gain may not have been outstanding, and to you not worth the money. But the fact remains that I got a gain out of it. And HI92Z28 might as well.

Just because that ramjet motor has a 48mm on it doesnt mean that a 52 mm wouldnt help it. Christ. settle down.

Also, Gofasterbird.

"88ws6,

Please do not make statements with no factual basis. That is not good practice on this board."

Instead of posting this nonsense, why don't you just go ahead and prove him wrong?

88TPI406GTA

I would love to hear your specifics on the 1/4 run. Did you run with the 48mm TB and then immediately change it and run again? Was kind of gain did you see? Was the TB the ONLY thing you changed between 1/4 mile runs?

Once again only facts and logic will help resolve things here.

BTW, as for the "high horse", I only slip off once in a while and this doesn't appear to be one of those times Just because I ask for actual proof doesn't mean I am being unreasonable...after all, you have the facts, right? Can't wait to see them.

Adam62083

I cant give you a timeslip to timeslip comparison on the run because my transmission is dying. I made the runs after a tuneup and playing with the timing a little. I went from a 14.49 best time, adding headers and a tuneup, having problems with the car and only pulling 14.6-14.7's. I fixed some electrical and vacuum problems and put the TB on and ran a 14.03 @ 97.5mph. The transmission is slipping about 200-300 rpm on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts, so I know I *should* be well into the 13's. However I am not going to rebiuld the tranny as I am doing a 6 speed swap in mid july.

Look, apparently you are very stubborn and obviously wont listen to my reasoning. However I will put my money that he drops at least .1 off his ET, with headers, probably more. I agree that the runners are the real restriction. My throttlebody was a deal that I didnt want to pass up though.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

Must I hold your hand and do a search for you?? Many people have flowed the 48s. Must I calculate the flow from an assumed pressure drop and laminar flow? I have also calculated flow needs on this board many times. I have also seen Car Craft article where their car slowed down after the installation of a 58mm. This was with testing down 1 hr apart. I have seen car run 110 mph in the .25 with this TB. I do doubt you did actually see a gain from your TB. I believe the gain to be something else. Might be different atmospheric conditions, TPS adjustment, etc. I think the original topic starter was clear on what he/she wanted to hear before the question was asked. I am also looking for the best for the person. This mod is unworthy at this stage in the game.

HI92Z28

Ok going back to my original post/topic. 52mm or the 58mm.

So i'm my case 52mm with be best suited for me, cause I don't want to bore out the plemun. The 52mm will be adequate and yet "will" increase performance. It will help in later my future mods as you guys stated.

And next my question. Hows the installation? Simple 1/2 hour job? Just bolt-on?

Lets put this post to a rest.................

88TPI406GTA

Thank you for finally providing some facts with which to back up your emotional argument. However, gaining a tenth could be the result of differing weather conditions or better driving.

The only way to know is to do back to back runs. You can argue with the scientific process all you want...it exists for a reason.

Adam62083

No my problem wasnt with your knowledge base, it was with your rude remark that was hypocritical- You told someone they were wrong and to not say something without factual basis- and you did that very thing.

88TPI406GTA

HI92Z28, if you have to get one, don't get the 58mm one...as it will definitely hinder performance/throttle response with your engine. I will stick to my original statement...it isn't necessary and won't be for a while, if ever...but good luck with your 52mm...

and to GoFaster...you can't educate everyone...I applaud your efforts though After all, the world MUST have been flat at some point, otherwise people wouldn't have believed that to be so.

Have a good day all....

HI92Z28

Thanks!

RMK

I'm not geting into a debate with you over whether or not you will benefit from it or not. I was going to upgrade to a 52 before I read another post a couple of weeks ago and decided to leave it until later. If you have to have one, get the 52mm. Installation should be a breeze and take no time at all.

Rob

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

OK... Im not trying to start a war here, but I DID STATE FACT. If you think that a stock 48mm TB isnt choking a 502, then not only are you crazy, here are some DD2000 numbers to prove that it IS.

Now, Im not sayin that a 48mm is too much a restriction on a 350, if at all. But it IS a restriction on a 502. Yes, a 58mm will be too much for a fairly stock engine, hell, you can barely port the stock plenum enough to accept it.

GoFasterFirebird: That comment was a little uncalled for, and I think I've been around these boards long enough to know what is appropriate and what is not.


BBC 502, 9.6:1 cr, Tunnel Ram Manifold, Large Tube Headers, 527/544 Roller Cam.

Now, these HP numbers arent exact to the RamJet 502, but are close enough for comparison. The HP numbers I got were lower, and the torque was slightly higher. On an acual 502, I would thing the acual gains would be slightly greater, given I had the right numbers:

w/600 cfm TB: Max HP - 459 @4500
Max Torque - 588 @3500

w/1100 cfm TB: Max HP - 478 @5000
Max Torque - 601 @3500

So there are some numbers. A gain of 19 HP and 500 more RPM, and a gain of 13 Pounds of torque. Not bad if you ask me.

I also did this with a stock L98, got a gain 4 HP and 3 Pounds of torque, which isnt much, but it did, however, move the powerband up considerably.

Just something to think about.

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

The 48mm TB flows 750 CFM. Sometimes a bit less, or a bit more. So I have heard. DD numbers are only estimations on their best day. Plug 750 in I would be curious to know. If you don't believe me do a search, I have read this numerous times. Did anyone search when I prompted. Looks like a "no"

Bort62

Okay I have been Watching this thread for a while....

Weather or not a 48mm tB is optimal for the particular 502 crate in question is Sort of irrelavent, Untill someone involved is actually talking about replacing the TB on Said engine.

The information from this infamous quote that matters is that the 48mm TB flows sufficent air To support 500 horsepower.

That being established, Unless you plan on exceeding this level, you Don't really have a need for anything fancier, and Infact it may hurt you.

You don't see People Running a 4" mufflex exhuast on a stock Lg4 car, Why ? Cause its Way overkill. Too Big. Waste of money.

A 58mm TB, and to a lesser extent the 52mm, Are both overkill On the majority of our engines.

Especially the clown who posted this in the first place.

But thats okay, He can spend his 300$ and still run 15's. Its perfectly lucid to me that he has no desire to attain anything greater than a 15 second car with 2000$ in bolt ons. Ill spend the 300$ someplace else and take my chances with the Stock TB.

Of course, the stock TB dosent come with any Stickers

GofasterFirebird

iTrader: (3)

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...7&highlight=TB


https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...9&highlight=TB

Here is some stuff....

Poppa Chubby

I LOVE THAT!! LOL


I put a pretty 52mm BBk on my car and it's pretty close to stock.

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

True, but 500 HP on a 502. Its about engine effency. A 502 pushing 500 HP is roughly a mid-grade big block. It takes alot more to get a 350 to push 500.

Go ask someone like Guido if he would put a 48mm TB on his car, and see what he says...

And is there really any reason to call the guy a clown? He was asking a simple question, he shouldnt be flamed for it.

HI92Z28

Clown, a fool? Whats with the problem with some of you. This a a public message board, i'll asking for advice not to be called names.