im not looking to start another dumb *** induction vs induction post so if you have a response like that save it

down the way there was a post saying fuel delivery was such that 360 hp was the limit to what TBI could do because the largest injectors flowed 90lbs/hr

Seeing as how those 90lb injectors are rated at 10 psi one wonders why their original 90lb flow rates be a limiting factor.

WHy not just increase the pressure? Ive thought about this and only two things come to mind

1) Increasing the pressure would make the injectors just way too large to tune low speed for. I dont know how correct this is but it would seem to me running a vacuum referenced regulator would solve this problem

2) increasing the pressure changes the actual time the injector dwells open or closed. I dont know how this could affect things all that adversely since youd just throw numbers in the chip that worked regardless of what they looked like.. does it make the performance erratic or something?

I know from personal experience that tbi injectors can handle quite high pressures. Ive run then at 50 psi (as high as my regulator would go) and the injectors didnt flake out as far as i could tell the thing ran normally

ive seen posts by people with injector test benches testing some pn's as high as 70 psi

granted not every pn can handle that much but surely say a 90 lb injector could handle at least 20 psi.. were the late model tbi setups not run at near 30 psi from the factory? (yes i know 90 lb injectors were early models but 80 lbers werent)

a 90 lb injector at 20 psi would support 500 hp
so why was the previous 360 hp limit stated.. does not compute

 

I would imagine that fuel is not the only problem.Horsepower also takes air and the 2b tb on the tbi is restrictive,I would think.

 

670 cfm should easily support in excess of 360 hp

 

Pablo,this isn't saying much but I'm with you on this one. I hope to exceed the perverbial 360 limit albeit not by much. Check my sig.

Steve

 

You'll run out or airflow way before you run out of fuel flow.
670cfm is way less at a carb comparable 1.5 in hg. Slap a 500cfm carb on your engine and get power out of it and i will be impressed.

 

How big is the tb one GM's new 502 Ramjet efi engine, and how much hp does it make? If I have read correctly it was a 48mm.tb and made 502hp. One other question, how do you measure cfm on a an LT1 type mono blade throttle body?

Steve

 

Thanks for starting up this new post Pablo. Grumpy, seriously, how is it that you came up with the 360hp limit? Like I said in my previous post (before having get locked), I think this must be a rwhp limit, not flywheel.
Yeah, that new ramjet 502 is making all that power through a standard L98 throttle body but look at the plenum and intake size. It's HUGE. There is a lot to be said about intake design and comprimises made with length, volume, shape, and for the most part bigger is better until the runners are so long that fuel has a hard time staying atomized . Probably a reason why some engines like and some don't like carb spacers, that's with a carb though . Just looking at the 2" blades are 50.8mm, I can see a problem if you are running a velocity stack and having the engine suck air past the injectors, but I don't see a huge problem if you had a good non-drop base air cleaner or just didn't use a spacer ring. Maybe there isn't a problem with TBI but instead the way the "experienced" use it! This might not make a big deal but NJSpeeder recorded improvements in 1/4 performance when not running any air cleaner, that was when he was running his 14.2's.

 

This is real easy.

Build a motor and using a carb set it up so you're running mid 12s (about what 400 HP will get you).
Then put a TBI on it and try to match the performance.

I did this with a 320 HP combination, and just so happen to have actually done it, rather then using assumptions and guesses.

You think you can?, well just do it.

Then since no one can be bothered to read the code, see what problems kept you from doing it.
If all it took was turning up the pressure for this stuff to work, then why did they ever bother with different sized injectors?.
The a bunch of really sharp guys doing the code and designing this stuff at GM, and believe it or not they just happen to know what they're doing.

If you flip back thru the final answers there in part is some of the problems you'll see.

 

I don't want to step on any toes here or start a discussion but I don't think airflow is the problem. As stated before, a 48 mm dual TB flows about 670 cfm which will support some HP,more than 360. Making power with a 500 cfm carb isn't hard either if you design the engine around it. Folks race with intake restrictions all the time, and make plenty of power but make changes to compensate for the deficiencies. Now I know I'm talking race cars here and they don't operate the same way road cars do but there are similarities. The thing is to make the power at the lowest possible RPM. Ever notice how NASCAR superspeedway engines don't rev to 9K. I know they can't go there with such a small air intake and such a large cubic diplacement, but say they were to drop the displacement to compensate for the lack of air to then gain the RPM. Well the smaller, higher reving engine would make even less power even with the RPM. Unfortunately, I don't have any direct experience with building such engines so that I could offer any advice, I'm just repeating things I've read and heard. Mind you, I absolutely loathe TBI, I'm a PFI fan, it's just that the "air not there" theory doesn't seem right as to why a tbi won't make power.

 

AMAZING!

GROWN CHILDREN!

like a star trek episode!

 

I understand where Grumpy is comming from. I believe that GM has the some of the best engineers in the market as well. I also believe that when Grumpy says there is room for improvement over a stock efi setup because GM has to cover a wide spectrem of climate and altitudes and attitudes, as well as warranties that even the simpliest systems are not tuned for max perfomance only adequate or average performance for longivity. I really wonder what GM could do with a tbi setup if they really wanted to. If the stock fuel pressure on the 90lb injectors will support 360hp then it seems to me that a small increase in pressure could support more with the proper tune ie.. chip, without to much additional stress on the injectors. But as you all know or suspect I'm still a novice at this so what do I know. I'll still try to run my setup with the 454tb and 90lb injectors untill I find that I'm way off and am losing to much power or mileage or blow the engine up trying to get it figured out.

Steve

 

If your at least real good with tuning you can get 2HP/# of fuel consumed. So just at a glance 2x90 is 180#/hr, and at 2 HP per pound that would be JUST 360. But we have some serious problems. That's at 100% duty cycle.
If you hunt around you'll see where 85% is an acceped Hi Limit. Lets even say we fudge and make it 90%. Now what's the problem with that?, all that DC stuff is for a TPI injector. Remember the differences in injector firing strategies?. The TBIs fire 2x as often. You have to maintain alot less then even 90% DC to try and have any accuracy with the fuel control. Think more like 80%. All of a sudden now your 20% short on fuel for even making 360 (and the original posting that started this was asking for 400 HP).

Next up you don't want to risk hanging a large TBI injecctor open. Unlike the stock siz'd ones, with a 90 that's like having 4 TPI injectors fail at once. And when can / does that happen?. When you try to run too much duty cycle and TOO SHORT of Duty Cycle. The pintle needs to open and close cleanly.

OK, just say we have a magic wand, and get WOT to act half decent. We still need to be able to drive the car. Ahh, idle. Any one care to guess what happens on a TBI when the PW for idle gets too short?. The code forces the strategy from synch to asynch. So there goes just cranking the F/P up to get WOT fueling.

Now, since we need more fuel pump, we just might also get to the stage of overwhelming the Fuel Pressure regulator. if nothing else with those two large injectors firing at the same time at the high duty cycles you'll also possibly have a fuel pressure drop within the TB, and / or erratic metering from them since one will be overlapping the other. You simply don't have the reserve volume of fuel that a TPI has, to supply and dampen the fuel pressure at the injector.

And properly, er perfectly, tuned you can get 1.3 HP per CFM of air, consumed.

Then is the matter of how the injectors are sealed within the TB itself. The higher you go the more often they will leak.

I'll rest now, and let ya'll look for the other related material.

 

Okay, I've got one more thing to add...vacuum AFPR. What's so wrong with using one to only add more pressure to the system under higher engine load or WOT? Then you could run your low fuel pressure at idle and higher fuel pressure under more load. I can definatly see where you're coming from with the injectors hanging up, just out of curiousity, how frequently does that happen? I've never seen any problems with TBI injectors having trouble closing but I could see how some injectors that have 200K+miles might get worn out and just not have enough strength to close. Are the injectors rebuildable because I've never heard of anybody doing it before?
If you use a single plane intake (good idea with TBI in most cases), why would a low PW have any effect on idle quality? Could you direct me or tell me what key words I should use to search for to do some more reading up on this.

 

ahhhh that is MUCH better
the comments about pressure drop within the tbi unit are very interesting...
I take it this would just make very erratic fuel metering and not neccesarily rich or lean except for particular cyls running one way or the other just depending on the timing of all these events but if one was to measure the exhaust gas it could seem right on right? but just be down on power

it seems to me this is the main problem here because an vacuum referenced fpr would seem to me to be a solution to the sync vs async problem although at lower rpm high kpa areas i suppose it could get closer to async as the pressure would increas but the fuel demand wouldnt increase so much (im probably talking out of my ***)


I can see what you are saying about overwhelming the regulator. I run an external regulator and its plumbed in on the pressure side and i plugged the return at the throttle body.. have i shot myself in the foot? Ive run an fp gauge off of one of the ports on the regulator and saw no flutter at wot indicative of of fuel pressure drops or would that just be limited to inside the pod and if not mabye all the line between the gauge dampened the possiblility of measuring those effects like a capacitor.. is this why the regulator is so close to the injectors? to immediately respond to those pressure fluctuations?

could just increasing the volume of fuel the injectors have to feed from in the pod do the trick? like a fuel log in the pod? maybe drill and tap a hold into the top of the pod and screw in a little fitting attached to a small reservior or something
how about just machining the internal passages so they are much larger?


i did quite a bit of reading looking for stuff and the things that come up that are items of concern you mentioned the only thing new is the internal pressure fluctuations in the tb

just some brainstorming here

 

Pablo,

I can attest to Grumpy's points, not that he needs anyone to vouch for his experience. My Xfire has been producing about 315-320hp using the stock Xfire injector set. I could see one of the issues that was holding back more hp from being produced at WOT once I put the car on a dyno with a WB O2. AFR climbed at about 4000rpm from 12.7 up to 14:1. Injectors were going static. Certainly you could bump up FP to increase volume, but if the injectors are static, you lose any ability to meter the fuel. That's one of the reasons for going to larger injectors therefore allowing lower duty cycles. Grumpy told me, in this forum, I couldn't just go to larger injectors without modifying the plumbing to run TB's in parallel. In a stock Xfire, the pressure drop between TB's is about .5psi corresponding to requiring injectors that are 4lbs/hr apart. The larger 66lb injector is in the rear or furthestmost TB from the fuel delivery line.
No larger injectors exist to recreate the stock "stagger". If you're faced with the need for using larger injectors in a Xfire setup, you'll need to plumb the TB's in parallel. I came to that conclusion after having tried to tune a split set of 80/90lb injectors. With careful selection and fine tuning, it could pass as acceptable if you didn't know better or didn't have a scantool. But it wasn't good enough. So now I am using twin 80lb injectors with parallel plumbed TB's.

 

Dominic, have you redynoed your setup with the 80lb injectors? What kind of increase did you see?

Steve

 

As for the vacuum referenced regulator, check the archives at DIY-EFI, where I discussed that in the cross fire I did years ago.

 

Ya sure beats having to actually do anything.
Brain storming normally infers a giving and taking of info., trouble is things are turning into bull sessions, or opinions not based in reality.

 

I steal candy from babies too.

 

A few things...stop trying to hard to get a rise out of people with comments like that and topics will stay open longer!
I'll check out the archives in a little bit but heck, this isn't reality so **** it, it's worthless right ?
Anywho, is there anything out there that is a regulator based on engine speed instead of vacuum? For example, low rpm low pressure, high rpm, high pressure. Would this pretty much cure all the problems and fears you guys have of the TBI injectors and higher fuel pressure? Sorry if this is just brainstorming but I thought it was a good idea and maybe somebody knows of such a device already so I wouldn't waste my time thinking about it.

 

Steve,

No, I have not had an opportunity to dyno the motor yet with the re-plumbed TB's and the 80lb injectors. Been busy tuning the Fuel Map first. Still at the PE= 75% TPS level. But it was coming along nicely. Unfortunately, I ran into a slight problem this weekend when it seemed like my IAC motors crapped out on me. I pulled them out of the TB's and grounded the diagnostic terminal to see if they were pulsing properly. The darn things shot out like rockets and the spring and pintle flew all over the place. Don't know why, it had never done that before. The ECM appears to be working since the IAC's are reacting to the change in throttle position. However, the motor now feels like its missing on 1 cylinder and one of the pintles is not as withdrawn as the other.
Once I replace them, I am hoping we'll be back to normal. The SOTP sense I get is that the top end is much improved. Where it felt like it was going flat at 4000rpm(which it was), it now feels like its blowing right through that rpm range on up over 5000rpm.
I hope to have dyno results in the next 30days and I will post if you'd like.

 

Ed,

I think it has more to do with the fact that some of us are tweakers, not that we don't realize other induction systems have more potential. Using your analogy, Porsche should have given up on their "boxer" engine years ago. I don't think any motor making 350 hp is anything to sneeze at. It sure makes for a nice daily driver and a fun sleeper car too. And my 300+ hp Xfire with Z51 still costs 20% of what a new LS-1 does, car included. My tinkering is good therapy and sometimes the journey, not the destination, is really the point. Most of this forum is a result of that kind of thinking.
As for duplicating the work, the Cross-Fire Forum has documented most or all of the modifications to get to this point. So its available to others. It was pioneers like Grumpy that got the whole thing started. If you've looked at a stock Xfire, you'll realize how compromised it was from the factory. I consider all I am doing is "updating" the motor to more modern spec as a means of realizing its true potential. Maybe its not a high winding motor, but boy can it develop torque. Almost 400lb-ft at 3800rpm.

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JPrevost

Anywho, is there anything out there that is a regulator based on engine speed instead of vacuum? For example, low rpm low pressure, high rpm, high pressure. Would this pretty much cure all the problems and fears you guys have of the TBI injectors and higher fuel pressure? Sorry if this is just brainstorming but I thought it was a good idea and maybe somebody knows of such a device already so I wouldn't waste my time thinking about it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why don't you just run a stock pump/ pressure... then hook a window switch up to a high psi inline pump. At 5000 rpms it could kick it and give you the higher pressure you desire...

 

Ed,

I don't know about you, but I haven't seen many 16YO kids driving $45,000 LS-1's. As for an audience, there's tons of TBI engined out there. If anyone is interested they can contact me directly or visit the Cross-Fire Forum.

 

Power is like beauty,its within the eye of the beholder.Now my eye can see when some punk @ss b1tch beats me.Just like ed said busting your *** on a combo getting it feeling real strong.Then getting smoked by a honda,datona or some kid in pops stock Z28.I like to look at a vette/viper/nsx/porshe owner in the face then tear them a new a**hole.That is a rush imo.The truth seem to be in the middle as far a tbi.360 might be the max limit but tell some guy he can't jump in and out of a raging river.You will find many fools that will try it but only the determined one will survive.But after a struggle the river gave the man will he jump back in.Just think of the time and energy you put into things and measure the end result.Will it be worth it in the end when your finished?The time,money and energy you could have spent f*cking your girl or been free to do whatever.There is a point that makes it not worth it.But I am not rich and can't afford a new WS6.The time and energy I have put in my formula,I would say is worth it.But I did'nt try to reinvent the wheel.I just got lucky having tpi on my car that has responded very,very well to all my mods.So for about 4 grand I have a car that can beat a ws6.So I did'nt have to work my *** of for $500 a month payments and still not own it.

 

To date, I don't recall a thread being closed on anything I've said.

Yes, it already been done, and had it's own problems.

 

Granted, I'm not 16... but I spent half that on my 2002 z28! A used one would have been in the $18K range. And if you don't think there are parents rich enough to buy thier kid a $25K car for graduation... then you don't live where I do.

As for there being a "ton of TBI engines out there"... well, there are a ton of lemmings too, and they just jump off a cliff and die! Just because there is a whole lot of something, doesn't make it particularly good.

 

I only pay $312/month for my LS1.

 

including insurance?

 

Oh Wow! a bunch of people replied with opinions no one asked for! I feel so much smarter now for having read them too.

 

 

If you can't see an answer then put those glasses on.lock no. 2

 

All jokes aside check the diy-efi archives.The main problem seems to be fuel distribution,not air/fuel flow.

 

You've started plenty of heated arguements with your "opinions" take it or leave it. It just so happens that what you say only seemed to be the spark. You can't just go around telling people to stop reading and do more doing and THEN tell them to stop asking and just read the achieves, it's just funny how you don't think you're ever part of the problem.... .
Ed, let me remind you that I have STILL spent less money on my car then you have and who's got a 350 with more potential than your current 305...if you want to reply to this comment, e-mail me.
I don't think time should be confused with money, this is a hobby, if time was so important we'd all be working and paying those monthly payments for an LS1 superstar!!!
Oh yeah, I don't think building an injector driver board is something you could call "expensive" considering there is already a circuit and I believe I've found a source for the actual IC needed. Parts are going to cost me a whole $10.00 after shipping .
As for the reason to keep pushing TBI...it's a hobby thing, why don't you junk your thirdgen and get a honda to run faster than a new camaro? How about telling me why you spend money on bolt ons when like you just said, save the money for twin turbo's. I think you're missing the point of this "diy prom" board. It's to change things in the bin to make your car run better. If you think that's a waste of time then what is the point of this board if it isn't made for exchanging idea's and info.
If you haven't figured it out, you tune your 305 TPI setup to run fast, it's to prove to yourself that you can do a bunch with what you've already got. You've got limitations with a 305 just like I've got some with TBI. I push, you push, the only difference is that I'm still faster than you (in as friendly a voice as possible).
Obviously I'm just wasting my breath talking to so many trouble makers at once but maybe, just maybe, some of this will influence some of you.

Grumpy, where, who, when, I've never heard of an engine speed fuel pressure regulator. Or how about some little snip of code to move a motor/valve like the IAC. I understand the IAC has it's own stepper motor driver but those are so easy and CHEAP it wouldn't be a problem, just need to find some sort of worm gear or high torque gearing to compress some sort spring in a regulator. Please don't reply to this post if all you are doing is being non-tech! Thanks,

 

Just because someone (Grumpy in this case) states an opinion based on a lot of experience that you don't agree with, does not mean he is instigating an arguement and leaving. It is easy to state a fact (or closest thing to it), think nothing more of it, and leave a post... only to realize that some newbe decided to practice HS debate class and defend a moronic counter-arguement until he got banned.

If you see this whole modding a TBI thing as a hobby... fine, more power to ya! My dog likes to chase his tail, I don't stop him from doing that either. But, if I ever wanted to see him catch it, I'd hold it for him until he is able to bite it. Same thing with the TBI... if you ever want to play with the fast cars, you'll have to change your plan of attack (i.e.- get another induction system which doesn't have all the inhierent flaws of TBI).

The amount of money I sank into my 84z28... payments on a LS1 are cheap!

 

OK guys, lets stick to the original post. No one here is better than anyone else and no matter how fast or how cheap your ride is it doesn't solve the problem at hand. Here is the problem: a two barrel TBI can't power more than 360 HP in the stock state. As we have figured out, it isn't because of airflow but because of fuel control. Someone with experience has already chimed in and said it won't work with the stock code or stock fuel delivery. This means you have to add injectors and change the code or run two TBI units like a XFire. Do I have it right? The Grumpster has already told you it won't work and no one else seems to have answers so you are on your own. It's time to start doing and stop talking. I installed a Mustang rack and pinion into my 78 Regal with no one elses instructions, when everyone told me it wouldn't work and that it was a waste of time. Well it may have been to them but it handles better and weighs a lot less up front now. The car is a pice of junk and spends more time broken (mainly because the 500 HP engines I keep building keep breaking, but that's neither here nor there) than driving but it's what I like. My wife has a 95 Z28 and next year we plan to get a used LS1 Vette, but I ain't giving up on my hobby just because the other cars are better and prettier. I've put about $25K (a very accurate figure BTW so you can start laughing now) into it for about a total of ten years now and I still have a way to go. There are going to be things I plan on doing that no one will be able to help me with but that won't stop me. This is why I tell you about my car since it is completely off topic. You are at the point where you are staring the problem in the face, now overcome it. And if no one is going to contribute to the solution, please don't try and deter those that are working towards one.

 

i read this post yesterday, it was a good one, now i read it today.

Its a big giant **** measuring competition. How about everybody whip it out and throw em on the table.

You know, i bet i know everything, or at least more than you etc... and ive done everything so i know everytyhing, and ive read everything etc.......... Retarded.

Grumpy, dont mean to pull you out here, but, You know some stuff, a lot of stuff, i have never doubted you before... BUT for some reason, you used to have a positive outlook on things, anything can be done, and why not have fun trying... now all of your comments towards tbi and other people seem to be condeming and so on. Please, I ask you to use your knowledge to help brainstorm, build on ideas, and nurture things, instead of stomping them out and weilding the all mighty I know everything sword.

as for the dude who has the little tpi runner in his avitar, you are cool. no really. honestly, what the hell do you care about tbi, you are obviously against it in every way, without the option to change your mind. so why are you even posting on this thread.

If this was on the tbi board, i would have deleted about half of the posts because they are not helpful towards the technical topic. Nobody wants to post something and be told go away you are stupid it will never work. Most of the posts, people didnt even think, they just started spouting off.

I spend a few hours analyzing the tbi system with pablo. I sent him plenty of pics.

if you care to see em.

http://members.***.net/snflupigus/tbi/inj.jpg
http://members.***.net/snflupigus/tbi/inj2.jpg
http://members.***.net/snflupigus/tbi/inj3.jpg
http://members.***.net/snflupigus/tbi/inj4.jpg
http://members.***.net/snflupigus/tbi/inj5.jpg
http://members.***.net/snflupigus/tbi/inj6.jpg

I hope i get flamed. you can all kiss my ****, i hope this post gets closed because im so pissed off that so many people are so damn pesamistic, and that the moderator of this board hasnt deleted the retarded posts in this good thread.


PLEASE MOVE THIS TO THE TBI BOARD WHERE PEOPLE WILL RESPOND WITH AN OPEN MIND.

 

There snuffy, i did my part and deleted all my non-tech posts for you. I had a revelation. I don't need to talk trash to get my point across. JP and olbap will do a fine job of proving my point by continuing to run way slower than they should. If either of them have guts they'd do a quick carb to TBI comparison on day at the track as well.

Thus, i bring the debate back to results. And all i see around here is pud whacking and ideas. Better get to work boys. I'd hate to show up in jersey this summer JP with some more tuning and an intake and have to show you 305 taillights

 

ooh I bet you get all the girls

 

If I understand Grumpy correctly, that simply put TBI runs out of fuel. Its not a matter of cranking up the pressure if the max amount of fuel is already reached. But anyways, I still havent read from the TBI guys about TBI being the best, just what they happen to have and have decided to tweak the best they can.. and if 360 HP is it limited by injectors and DC then 360 HP is it. Sometimes people want to be different, which always will have its detractors. Oh well flame on..

 

Injectors go static as Dominic stated.Dominic also stated that grumpy told him him things he found through exp to be true.Everything has it's limits and about 350 hp is what you're going to get with tbi.From how grumpy acts it seems like he had a hard time getting tbi to compare to carb on a 320hp engine(xfire?).Pablo,your original post and questions have been answered.So why are you so bitter?

 

Not that anyone cares, but I put a holley carb on this weekend in place of TBI. Granted i only set the fuel level and its pretty much out of the box. IT RUNS LIKE CRAP. It is the most gutless peice of crap. Before I could spin through two gears. Not now. Normal driving is fine. Idles ok although it tries to idle down to 400RPMs sometimes which sucks. Out of the box i know it won't be perfect, but so far i am NOT impressed.

PS TBI is AIR FLOW limited not fuel flow.

 

I have to laugh.

 

Let's see do you know how to set up the carb?Did you use a vac advance dist?Do you know how to set it up?Your probally too young to know how to do those things.So just throwing a carb on and declaring it suck,shows your lack of experience.It appears that you knows sh*t about carbs.Go take your choked off engine and race a chevy citation.

 

Saturn/Snuf,

That's really the point. Am I a complete idiot? Do I think that a Xfire is the ultimate induction system? Absolutely not. I just like to get the most from what I already have. I play with the hand that's dealt me. I bought the Xfire and am an original owner. Do I think GM screwed me? Yes. Especially when I look at the manifold and see ports that a 2/3 the size of the head port. So I look to make it right. That's all. "To go beyond where no TBI has gone before" to paraphrase a popular sci-fi show. And I guarantee you a 20 year old 13sec car is bound to surprise more than a few people. I surprised a Mustang Cobra the other day. Last year I surprised an 92 LT1 that was modded at Route 66. He and I had the same 1/8 times and mph. Top end is where I got dusted. He ran a 106mph to my 102. Know I know why and I have done something about it.

 

Well,Pablo I did see the holley commader tbi unit w/ 900cfm tb feeds from 350 to 500 hp.So tbi does'nt have a 360hp limit.But I belive grumpy was refering to GM's design of tbi though.Grumpy is on point,350hp w/gm style tbi .If you change to the holley ecu and tb you can run 500hp if you want.Or try to adapt what holley did to your tbi setup.Then and only then you'be able to smoke my 12 second @ss.All jokes aside does that help,my diy-efi friend?

 

I could swear i posted something about saving any dumb *** induction vs induction posts in my first post.

Hmph.. guess that was a figment of my imagination

 

Girls will be girls...
Yo, get on AIM, I've got something VERY interesting to tell you. Let's just say that my fuel pressure has been at 12psi since I ran the car over winter break....I'll talk to you more on AIM.

 

pablo I have given you legit responses.Just ignore the carb comments and read my post on the 900cfm tb.Holley rates their 650cfm tb at 150-300hp.Have you seen the 350-500hp holley tbi setup?

 

I think (know) that we (Pablo and myself at least) have seen that holley tbi setup. It's old but great AND expensive. The expensive part is why I don't want to use it.