I just spent the last hour reading posts in the archives trying to decide what to put in my 700r4.I have read Both suck,both are great,and on and on,will someone that knows what they are talking about and self installed the kit please tell me wich is better.......

 

For what it's worth, my son installed the B&M kit himself and it was a very harsh shifting kit (my opinion) and I also felt that the harsh shifts were to make you feel like you got something for the money. Soon thereafter, he lost the 3/4 clutch pack, which I do not feel had anything to do with the B&M kit. When we rebuilt the trans, we installed the TransGo reprograming kit, the Jr kit, and a Corvette servo. I did not know what to expect, but I had a vision of what I thought a good shifting hi-perf auto trans should shift like. The Transgo kit met my vision. Under normal driving, shifts are not harsh. Getting on it, trans shifts quickly & positively, allowing the engine to pull through the gears. The transgo kit is much more involved than the B&M kit, requiring drilling the valve body & spacer plate, plugging some passages in the case body & spacer plate. It also has more springs to change in the valve body, along with some valves. If this is your first time doing a shift kit, don't get freaked out by the instructions, pay attention to detail, & you'll be OK. I'd recommend the TransGo kit. If you buy it from ProBuilt, you will get good product support with your questions, and you can even call TransGo who also has a good product support technical line.
I hope this helps you make an informed decission.
FJK

 

I have not seen any posts that said the Transgo sucks.

 

I installed the transgo reprogramming kit...the directions were fairly easy to follow, although a little vague sometimes, but it does say "for professional use only"
Vader suggested to me I highlight all the instructions that pertained to my tranny and the mods I wanted...this helped alot...one part that almost screwed me was the instructions did not tell me wich shifting plate gasket went where...I got lucky and had them right..V=valvebody....C=case.
I don't have the tranny in the car yet, but I hope to this weekend...one other thing, if the tranny is out of the car, do not remove the valve body with the tranny on its back, the check ***** like to fall in the case..ask me how I know...

 

I have the B&M kit installed in my trans when it was rebuilt several years ago. It shifted real hard at first & soften up after a year & about 1500 miles. I decided to go with a Transgo. When installing it found that the B&M kit replaced several springs with solid bushings. My feeling is the B&M kit just gives harder shifts & does nothing to help the trans live longer, whereas the Transgo attempts to fix some of the problems with the 700.

 

go transgo case closed..i had a B&M, it wasn't bad..but my 3-4 clutches died at 89K miles, shiftkit was installed at 30K. It also did nothing to correct the factory flaws of a 700r4.

 

The transgo kit is better and like mentioned fixes some flaws in the transmission. It is the only kit that comes out and says "will fix some problems." Its just not an easy thing for a beginer to install. The B&M kit is very east to install and is a rip off considering they tell you to "RV use" drill 3 holes remove the MTV upshift spring completely, replace the TV spring and put some spacers in the accumulator's. If you went "S/S" it tells you to replace the line bias valve with a blocker rod. Seems like a rip off for $35. the things you have to do at 8:30 friday night when you need a set of valve body gaskets.

 

How firm are the transgo shifts at wide open throttle? I have the B&M currently. The car is not running right now, but when it was it would shift hard enough to chirp the tires into second gear. I understand that this is probably not real good for it(but fun). I also noticed once that when I raced one of my friends, he got off the line first but I made that up on the first to second shift because my car jumped forward when it shifted. I have rode in cars that supposedly had shift kits, that still hesitated a little on the shift and I deffinately dont want that. Thanks for the help. I am just trying to do some research.

Ben

 

I just had the Transgo HD kit form PROBUILT installed, like FJK said, under normal driving the shifts are not harsh but firm but at race mode the shifts are quick and positive.

 

How is your second to third shift? Is it firm enough at full throttle that you can feel it pull you forward a bit or just shifts quick? One of my friends cars has a shift kit in it but I dont know what brand. When it shifts second to third the rpms kind of like go up a little for a split second before it shifts. Does anyone know what would cause that?

Ben

 

I dont have that issue with mine, shifts are quick and positive thru all gears and you can feel it pull forward the whole time w/ no hesitation

 

Ok, that sounds good. Now here is my next question. I am not trying to start any fights, but a while back on I believe camaroz28.com there was a guy that kept arguing with transfix leo but he eventually appologized. Well, he said that he didnt like the transgo kit based on certian facts and at least one or 2 people agreed with him. What I want to know is what these facts are that they think is wrong with the transgo kits. If anyone knows or if your read this Leo I would really like to know both sides of that argument. From what I have seen transfix leo knows what he is talking about but this guy also had several years experience with transmissions and I just would like to know whether his side of the argument was valid or not. I might try and find that thread and ask him also.

Thanks

Ben

 

The Trans-Go Performance Shift kit when installed correctly will solve the problems that are inherent with the 700R4. The problem is that some people install the Shift kit when the transmission is already going away or having problems and expecting that the Shift kit will save it. Other problems occur when the Shift kit is installed "incorrectly". I have a few transmission cores come in with the Shift kit in them, and upon close examination most were installed incorrect. The B&M does not address the inherent problems with the 700R4. B&M does not work with the accumulators, for nice part throttle shifts while still giving firm WOT shifts. Even Trans-Go with their 700R4 Performance Shift kit does not address the part throttle accumulation problem, thats why I add the Trans-Go Junior Shift kit to the Performance Shift kit, that way you get best of both worlds, nice part throttle shifts & firm WOT shifts. I have been building performance units going on 26 years and have seen well over a hundred units that had either B&M, Art Carr, TCI, Jet, etc., and the damage that these kits did, (broken parts) caused by huge feed holes on 2nd gear blocked 2nd gear accumulators, etc., and the inferior parts & quality of workmanship when it came to their units. There are very few people that can build the 700R4 "correctly". If the guy building the unit tells you how fast he is at building units, RUN! If he does not ask you all the particulars about how you drive, (drag racing, street/strip, road racing, etc.) the size of the cam at .050 lift, etc., make a 180 degree turn & go. If he has one on the shelf and says it will work in your car and has not asked you the above questions, leave. I think you get the picture. I am sure that transfixleo thinks the same way.

 

I will stand behind Pro-Built on what he advises. I've spoken with him on the phone several times. Mines a 85 700R4, 50,000 well cared for actual miles. My IROC is basically stock, except for usual free / low cost mods everyone seems to do. I was looking for crisrer / tighter shifts, and felt my tranny had no real problems. I did'nt go with a Trans-Go kit however. Based on my needs and his advice, he recomended I first try the Corvette Servo kit he sells, with all needed seals included. This is reasonably priced, and well worth it. His words were something like..."this may be all you need..." He said that if I wanted more firmness, that he'd set me up with a Trans-Go kit based on my Tranny needs, year of Tranny, engine mods, etc. I have to say that I could'nt be happier with the Servo kit...it did EXACTLY what I wanted, and EXACTLY what he said it would. He was also very patient on the phone prior to my install of servo since I had never done one before, and had a few questions. He also advised me on fluid level and TV cable concerns I had. He did not try to sell me more than I really needed / wanted. This would be easy to do over the phone to people you've never met. I have advised him to my 3rd gen friends for the same things. They dig how my 700R4 shifts. He's up front and honest!

 

I also bought the servo from him and have talked to him on the phone. He is a good guy, but I am exploring all of my options right now.

Ben

 

The TV cable probably slipped out of adjustment; that'll even result in a softer shift on a stock trans! We should all be checking those every month or so.

I put the B&M kit in myself; but back then, I didn't know about how much better the Transgo kit was. When I rebuild this trans, I'll put a TransGo kit in.

 

After reading posts throughout this board, I wouldn't go any other way than TransGo.

 

I had the Transgo kit in mine before it died. Part throttle shifts were fairly nice, not much harder than stock, but at WOT, yeah baby! It would ocassionaly chirp 3rd! Like they said above, it won't cure a problem you already have. Mine was a front pump going out, oh well. I'm putting the ultimate shift kit in now! T-56 all the way!

 

I would love to have a 6 speed also but right now that just isnt cost effecient to me. But in the future that is what I would rather end up with than this auto.

Ben

 

there is no headache, and there is no issue. B&M does not make a shift kit, only TransGo does. The B&M kit is a hack job and does things the wrong way. I LOVE my TransGo, it makes driving almost as fun as a manual. The shifts are lightning fast and firm at any throttle position. This is how they should have made them from the factory.

 

Shift kit or whatever you want to call it. If I just said I had a B&M how would you know what I was talking about. I dont care if transgos is the only one actually named a shift kit. Also, do you know how to drive a manual? An auto just doest compare as far as enjoyment goes.

anthony

 

i agree with @ZZKKER. couldnt have said it better.

 

Sounds like this topic is changing to....Standard Vs auto.....Standard= Driver related problems.....hmmmm smell that clutch...driver adjustment required.
At least running an auto you can blame the drivetrain for your problems...

 

No, I run an auto right now and enjoy it with the shift kit but I just have more fun driving a manual. Also that added ability with the six speed of being able to run 4.10s and run good rpms on the highway.

Ben

 

I learned to drive on a manual. I love them and prefer them, over autos, but I'm happy knowing that I will never miss a shift with my built auto.

 

I'm running a pro-built 700r4 in my car, so naturally it has all of the transgo stuff in it. If you were able ot test-drive it, you would see that transgo really is the ONLY choice.

the transgo stuff is what you want!

as for the auto vs. manual debate. there are times when i regret not going with a t56, but that has nothing to do with the transgo kit. all my previous cars have been sticks, so it's hard giving up that level of control over the car.

if you enjoy driving a stick, and have thought at times that you wished the car were a stick, then it's something you may want to consider.

 

I agree totaly that the transgo kit is probably 100 times better for the tranny but do doubt it would be any funner than the b&m. I also have firm positive shifts at full throttle that can chirp the tires, but would really like a manual. But I so far havnt had problems with my tranny.

Ben

 

I have heard that the B&M has constantly agressive, bang shifts; especially 1-2.. even at light throttle.

That's not my idea of fun.

There is an 88 IROC in my family (5.7 auto posi) that has a shift kit in it (and it's definately not a trans-go). in normal driving, it will break the rear tires loose on the 1-2 shift if you are turning a corner at the same time. Were' talking light throttle here, not heavy on the gas. It's really NOT fun when it's raining, or there happens to be a friendly officer sitting at that corner who wants to talk to you about why you "peeled out around that corner". The constant hard shifting is not fun to me.

 

Would the transgo shift kit improve 1/4 mile times at all. I plan on getting one along with a corvette servo.

 

yes definitley, the less time thats spent shifting the more time power is being applied to the ground.

 

ben stop editing my post i must change my password

 

Umm My '85 700R4 did this from the day it was new, its the way they were built, with the steep 1st gear.

~M~

 

I guess its up to me to say something for B&M.
I had my trans rebuilt with the B&M super trans kit a few months ago and it performs wonderfully. I don't experiance the 1-2 "bang" shifts at light throttle everyone is complaining about, it shifts smoothly but firmly (you know when it hits 2nd). At WOT it shifts with authority, no hard bangs, just very firm. The car does "launch" foreward when it hits second and third gears but not so hard that the tires break traction (you really have to work at it to break traction hitting second), and this is with a VERY healthy 350 in front of it.
Now, the super trans kit isn't considered a "shift kit", its more like a total rebuild kit, so I can't attest to the B&M shift kits.
I can say that the owner of the trans shop where I took it said that that kit had them replacing parts they never touch on a normal rebuild. And yes they do know what they are doing, they build race transmissions for the most part.

So, in short, not EVERYONE hates B&M. They were around long before the others, and will likely be around for a long time to come.

And I see everyone mention the "inherent problems" with the 700R4, but none of you actually say what these "problems" are. I have had a 700R4 in my car since '85 and have never experienced any "problems" with it. You sure you don't mean the 200R4?

~M~

 

morley,
i'm not talking about the steep first gear.

i'm talking about driving the car the way grandma would, at a 4 way stop/intersection. from a complete and total stop, with about 5% throttle (doing maybe 15mph on the other side of the intersection), it will chirp the tires going into second gear in the middle of the intersection.

if yours did that stock, then something was wrong with it!!!

as for inherent problems with the 700r4, let's see. sticking TV valve, 3-4 clutches burning up, no cooling flow except when the TCC is applied, breaking sunshells, rear planet lube problems, slow 3rd release on 3-2 downshift causing 3rd to still be applied when it has already downshifted to second (heat buildup and damage to friction material), 3-4 clutch springs are too weak and apply the clutches at high rpms in 1st & 2nd, and i'm sure transfixleo and probuilt can name more. i almost tend to think the 700r4 is an inherent problem with every F-body equipped with one!

the 700r4 in my z28 (a 1991 with the "improved" trans, no less) had to be replaced at only 85k miles after being driven easy it's entire life, and from what I hear that's pretty close to par for the course. Let's see, it woudln't shift 1-2 at WOT, the 2-3 WOT would slip, and sometimes it woudln't even hold the gear AFTER it shifted! talk about lame. Ordered up a probuilt with the transgo stuff (quote the pocketbook, "ouch") and no more problems. between transgo and the stuff Dana & Leo do to their trannies, they mop up this mess GM created.

 

Well, in 17 years I have never encountered a single one of the problems you mentioned. I had my trans rebuilt at 150k+ miles (hard miles in the heat of the south) and the shop that did the rebuild said that the internals looked good as new still.
I did regular filter/oil changes on it (every 30k miles or so) and it never gave a single problem except the TCC hunting, which was caused by the bad PROM from the factory. I've had problems from all the other transmissions in my other cars, but never my 700R4.

~M~

 

Well, in a way, you may have encountered some of these problems, but they haven't caused a trans failure for you yet. Why did you have it rebuild at 150k i'm curious?

The factory 700r4 hydraulic circuits don't circulate tranny fluid through the trans cooler unless the TCC is locked. Not a problem unless you do a lot of driving that keeps the TCC unlocked, or the TCC solenoid fails..which seems to happen a bit too often for such a simple electromechanical device.

The slow 3rd release on 3-2 downshift is also included free of charge in a (edit: STOCK) 700r4. If you don't do a lot of 3-2 downshifts, then you would never run into this problem.

The (edit: STOCK) 3-4 springs applying at high RPM is a given if you venture far into 5000rpm territory. Again, if you don't do this, then you woudln't have run into the problem.

Anyways, count yourself as one of the lucky ones to have have had a good experience! I sure wish my 700r4 would have held up longer that 85k.

 

I think my old 83 tranny had ALL those problems...put it behind this 327....110mph 6500rpm= neutral...
Great debate fellas Ive learned alot.....My 89 Grand-AM lost its tranny at 25,000 Sticky tv Valve, just about shelled the motor when it faild to shift.
To Each his own....I'm just glad we live in a country where we have a choice.

 

I also have an 85 trans, and it lasted me 130,000 miles with no problems and that is with the last 20,000 or so having a 2.77 rear end when it had the speedo gears for a 3.08. I had the super transkit installed in mine also. I believe that came with the shift kit in it though. I would describe my transmission afterwards as being similar to the way morely describes. The funny thing is my tranny didnt need a rebuild yet. I just figured it had quite a few miles on it and I could get it done for the cost of the kit so I would go ahead and do it. Oh, well. Like I said I am not saying that the B&M is better than transgo because I dont think it is from talking to people, I am just saying I havnt had any problems with mine.

Ben

 

I agree with Morley. It would be nice to know about the 700r4 inherent problems, and not at least, more in detail how they are fixed by TransGo.

My shiftkit for the most of it only replaced shiftvalve springs. And no modification to the cooler feed.

Very interesting what 91L98Z28 mention about cooling only being effective in lockup.
Strange, but I cant recall any reference to this in all the previous threads about transmission cooling.
But looking at the hydraulic chart in the ATSG manual, it seems like it is correct.
Why did GM do that? I would have thought that cooing is especially in need when you're not in lockup..??

 

About the cooling only taking place during lockup, was that fixed in the 88-92 transmissions or not? I had never heard that before, but I had heard that these trannys had a problem with getting hot and that they done something to make it better on the newer ones. Also, I would also appreciate it if someone could expand on these problems some. I know that the tv valve gets stuck and understand some of the problem that causes that but that is about the only one I hear really discussed. Also, I have a friend that has 2 irocs. One 87 and one 89. The 87 was wrecked at around 110,000 or 210,000 not really sure which, but the motor had been replaced and the tranny was still stock and functioned. His 89 has around 140,000 miles on it and the only thing done to his transmission has been a shift kit but he doesnt know what brand and his is fine. Between the two of us that is 3 transmissions that have lived well over 100,000 miles without problems. This includes both early and late style trannies.

Ben

 

I had the trans rebuilt because it had 150k+ miles on it and because I was putting a "built" 350 in front of it.

Again, never a problem in my trans.

Yes, I have been known to down shift my trans manually and it never hesitated or delayed when going from 3rd to 2nd.

Well, I never ventured to 5k + RPM for extended periods of time, the 305 TPI didn't make any power up there.

Any time anyhting mechanical lasts as long as my engine/trans did I consider myself lucky, those things just wern't meant to last by design.

~M~

 

with regards to the 3-2 downshift problem, all the 700r4's have it. it's inherent in the design. Maybe it bites you, maybe it doesn't. but it's there. Basically what happens, is it goes into 2nd just fine, but 3rd is still partially applied for a very short period of time. this basically just burns on the clutches.

try driving a fully prepped transgo trans sometime. I've driven a slipping stock 700r4, a non-transgo 700r4, and the transgo/pro-built 700r4 in my 91z. The 3-2 on my transgo is SO much nicer than the others, it's not even funny. With the transgo, it's like the tranny reads your mind...it knows you want to go and go RIGHT NOW, and the 3-2 is very quick and positive, without feeling like it's going to break parts. the non-transgo is outright lazy by comparison...it takes longer to initate the 3-2 shift, and longer to finish it. I should add that I have probuilt's street/strip package, which has some additional mods done to the 3-2 and 2-3 shifts to make the tranny last longer...the exact details i'm not sure, ask dana or leo.

anyhow, that's my experience. maybe trannys are like the luck of the draw...some people get lucky, some don't. I know some people have really abused on their 700r4's (If I remember correctly, traxion is in the 12's on a stock 700r4??) and gotten away free, while others break without even being abused.

 

morley, with all do respect, just because your trannies been fine, doesnt mean the other half million 700r4's out there have been.

Ive experieced some of those problems in a firebird i used to own, and currently have a sticky tcc solenoid in my vette, otherwise it shifts perfect with 150k miles on it. I also think i've been lucky. I know a number of people who blow a 700 every 50k miles

 

The same can be said of all the other transmissions made too. I've known people that would trash out TH350's in 10-20k miles, some of them have even managed to waste TH400's and a few who even managed to destroy the M22"Rock Crusher". The transmission is the most used and abused part of the driveline and they fail regularly when abused and they have their lemons, like any other part of a car.
And with all due respect, just because your trans or someone elses has been a lemon does not mean that all of them are. I know of several people with 700's that have performed flawlwssly for well over 100k miles and are still going strong. Like anything, if you abuse it, expect trouble.
Like most every automatic transmission out there, the 700R4 was not made with racing in mind, they are a "street" automatic transmission and are meant to be driven as such , ie; not manually up and down shifted, not driven as if every red light or stop sign were a 1/4 mile race. But like anything else, you can and do get lemons that don't work right from the get go, I've had more than my share of them in other respects. In a perfect world everything would work right the first time, every time. But we know that ain't gonna happen, don't we?

~M~

 

I dont remember who it was, but not to long ago, there was a thread in which someone asked why gm couldnt have just made a good transmission(referring to the 700). And the tranny experts said that it wasnt really the 700, it just seems that way since thats what we deal with on the boards all of the time. Someone else said that he had problems with his tranny in a ford van and he was told that if you own a ford that you should get to know a good tranny guy. I think that though there may be problems everything has its own problems. I dont think that every 700 will just randomly decide to have problems. Some will some wont just like anything else, but the more they are abused the more problems there will be.

Ben

 

exactly..some will some wont. Ive had a number of turbo 350's they all worked fine, people i know blow them up.

I think the point was there are flaws in the 700, and the transgo adresses them while the b&m doesnt

 

You know what I think of the B&M Kit?
It ruined my tranny.. either that of the "Tuned Port Torque" But I'd either go trans-go or buy a TCI Street Fighter or "Raptor" tranny. My tranny lasted all of 1 day w/ the B&M kit before it started to slip.. then I installed some bigger Servo's and it helped to prolong the inevitable.. a smoked 3-4 clutch pack.
B&M is.. THE DEVIL! lol

 

Ok, I still agree that b&m doesnt fix all of the problems that transgo does, but if your tranny started to slip within one day, your tranny already had problems or someone really f*ed something up when doing your tranny.

 

I'd just like to restate the fact that the TransGo kit is friggin awesome and I love it to death

To back up what 92L98Z28 said... the 3-2 downshift on a tranny rebuilt to TransGo specs is absolute lightning. Why oh why don't they build them this way from the factory? Does anyone really like a sloppy tranny that slips into each gear the way the factory units do?

 

wow, good thread here!!!!!
I going with trans go in the 83 700 then, details on the tansgo jr kit ? whats it all have in it and can it be installed without yanking out tranny like in the case of the regular tans go kit ?

want ot know more about this cooler and TCC deal, is it real difficult job for a mechanically inclined person to replace the TCC solenoid if it is bad ?
are there any life extending mods that can be done in trannt installed in vehicle that arent part of the trans-go kits ?


thanks, and keep it coming, this is great stuff, for real!