searched for this, did not work well.

ok so here is the low down.

all of the sudden last night my car had a problem, i turn it on, it idles rough, i give it gas, it dies. if i verry slowly increase pressure on the peddle i can get it to get to about 2.5k. then it dies. if i let it idle and never give it gas it will die after about 5 minutes. i removed and cleaned my MAF. no help. fuel pump sounds a little rough but is working. has been unusually cold lately if that helps. what else...... i think thats it. please help me, i need to be able to drive to work tomorow.

 

a) (you know this was coming) What codes if any?
b) Will it still do the same w/the MAF unplugged?

 

1. no no codes
2. i can rev it all the way to 5k if i go slow, but if i slam the gas it dies straight away


thank you for helping me

 

Two Words.
Fuel Pump.
Find another ride & get it swapped out.
To be sure, go get a fuel presure gauge (borrow one if possible).
Symptoms sound just like mine did as it died, then died.
LUCKILY it died in my driveway.
Unluckily, as I was moving out that week!
I had to have it towed away to complete my move from that place.
I only need replace my heater core & get two tires & a battery to get to Phoenix now to have Street Legal Headers mocked up on my car. Damn chilly winds here in LA, today. Don't give up on those headers!
Pay someone else to do it for ya, it's a suck as$ job.

 

pay someone else to get headers or to put on the new fuel pump?

 

pay to have fp replaced. Also, might as well have tps checked, never hurts

 

i bet that will cost, i would eally like to do it myself, how difficult is it. i did replace my own springs before and managed to re-do the fuel injector gaskets on my charokee qall by myself, i have also done brake jobs before, do you think i have enough experience to pull off this job?

 

Well, replacing the fuel pump is a rather simple proposition, really.. jack the back of the car up, mark and disconnect the fuel line running towards the fuel filter and put the line in a certified gas container.. use your fuel pump test circuit (pin F on ALDL) to force pump to run and drain tank into container (this may take a while, especially if it's toast, however, dropping the tank full of gas just sucks)

Unbolt lower shock mounting bolts, jack car up a few inches past where the shock maximum travel would have been, unbolt fuel tank, wiggle it around carefully till the filler neck is out (no, it won't require a pry bar like the mechanic that did mine was convinced it did.. you'll just break your filler neck like he did mine)

Mark and disconnect remaining lines to fuel tank. remove tank from under vehicle. Using a brass punch tool, disengage the camlock holding the fuel sending unit into the tank. Remove sending unit. Replace pump, strainer, and gasket. Reinstall sending unit, reinstall lines.. reinstall tank.. reinstall shocks.. reinstall....... uhh.. yesh. Installation is reverse of removal.

 

Yeah, that one, the suck as$ job.
Serious I had someone help me on a lift & it was PITA.
I offered someone to do the job & they turned down my request.
It's managible by yourself but really Messy & dirty.
I'm thankful I stuck in the AC Delco stuff & pray I never do that gas tank pump swap out again.
To really be sure on this project, get your fuel pressure tested. The answer you see is instant & a secure answer (if the pressure is below 45, you need to do it. My fuel presure read, when pump was dead, at 10 PSI.
Very simple to accurately test.
See that fitting on back of engine looks like tire air fitting cap, on fuel rail?
That's where ya insert the gauge. Turn key & watch the results. In seconds.
Shop around for a mechanic or garage to do the work.

 

Everone is going on about the Fuel Pump, But I havn't seen one person mention the Ignition Coil. This is the exact same thing that happened to me when my coil went belly up. If you give it gas, the TPS says to put more fuel in, so it does, and the coil can't fire it, but if you go slow then the coil can kind of charge up as it revs and it'll work, but you have to go REALLY slow. Both are worth a shot, but I say coil.

 

thanks to everyone for the replys, now i remember why this is the board i still visit. ok, so... a couple more questions:

1.are there different kinds of fuel pressure sensors and how much are they. what kind do i need.

2.how much is a new ignition coil, is it an easy install.

3. what is a "brass punch tool" and how much does that cost (if comon sense serves me, it is a punch tool made of brass, not a brass-punch tool, but you never know. 'brass does not create sparks')

one other thing, my car has always had a moments hesitation after i slamed the gas before she took off,

4. was this an early warning sign that i missed?

if not that means my fuel pump just sucks and should probably be upgradde dinstead of replaced, witch brings us to question

5. are there aftermarket performance fuel pumps, if so how much and are they worth it?

again thankyou to everyone for your help, i had to drive my old charookie to work today, by the time i got there steam was coming out from under the hood couse she was overheating, but heres the weird part, the emp guage said it was fine, so when i get home (after filling up the water) she is staeming gain so i pop the hood and the steam is comming out of the heater core, witch must have a small leak, and out of the reservoir, witch is boiling (in a jeep the reservoir is part of the pressurized system. i don't know what to do with that thing. so far before i sell it it needs

a. brake job front and rear
b. heater core replaced
c. signal bulbs and lights
d. possibly thermostat
f. new power stearing pump
g. thats it, but hell,thats alot of stuff for a car i am going to get 2k or less for.

 

thats it, but hell,thats alot of stuff for a car i am going to get 2k or less for.

Sell jeep as is or sell it back to yourself after all the labor/parts ya do.
BORROW a fuel pressure gauge. They cost abotu $30-ish.
Pefromance stuff in fuel tank for our V6?
NOPE just pay for every part called for IF ya need that job done (only can tell by the pressure gauge)
Coil?
Sure, it's easy to replace, lots of bending over fender, tho. I chose to save effort & remount mine elsewhere. I am now paying for that coil relocation saved effort as I do my heater core on my Firebird, The heater hoses in engine bay area are covered by th eplacment of coil, I simply remove several screws & access ok to those hoses in engine bay again.
Get your old parts checked before ya start tearing apart stuff. All these parts do wear out & will cause symptoms like ya saying. I've had coil go bad & also fuel pump, too.

 

ok so i bought a fuel pressure guage. the (moreexplinatives then i want to type) chiltons book said theat for a mpfi car it has a fuel rail so i purchased the fuel rail equiped pressure guage. so i look at the useless chiltons book and it shows me this picture of the fuel "rail" that is so zoomed in i can't tell where it is, to complicate things further the one they show is an 84 not an 86 and has a totally different looking setup, so i guess, besides to kick mr. chilton in the *****, what i need is a picture or detailed explination of what i am soposed to plug in and where. any help would be much apriciated.

 

I don't have a picture, but here goes nothing.

Look at the back of your intake. In between the upper and middle portion of the intake you will see what looks like a air valve for a bike or car. Screw the presure tester onto this. Some fuel may leak out when doind, but it's such a small amount that it is nothing to wory about.

That is the best explination tha tI can think of. hope it helps! Good luck!!!

 

"your intake" covers bout threee square feet, thankyou for trying to help but is there anyway you can get more specific, near air box, plenum, in between the two metal spidery looking things(top one has a '2.8mpfi' logo?

 

here is a pic of my fuel guage

 

and the page with the "detailed picture"

 

The valve is on the fuel rail, the aluminum part that connects to the fuel injectors. It is under those spider looking things like you said, near the back. It will have a metal cap on it that you simply unscrew. It is going to be a PITA to get to it, and screw the guage onto.

GL.

 

if you want specific here you are. Look at the back of the upper plennum where the mainfold vacuum comes out. Directly under there you are going to see a small metal cap that looks like a tire stem. it should have a silver metal cap on it. it is right under the back of the plennum. can't get much more specific than that unless you want measurements from major landmarks within the engine bay. Also, the picture in the book that you showed looks like a TPI motor(V8), you won't have to take anything off to get to the valve, just move the vacuum lines on the rear of the plennum to the side so that you can screw the pressure guage on.

 

The tire valve looking item by firewall, driver side. On motor, intake area.
Unscrew valve cover, insert the tool, turn on car & read gauge.
I did it without removing a thing, just pushing stuff aside.
Serious, that chiltons pic on right of those two ya showed, pressure fitting looks exactly like that.
Follow your fuel rail by flash light, you will see it! Honest.
Hope ya get an answer that works for ya.
PS ya only need read one time, not multiple ignition start ups to build up pressure.

 

thanks guys that realy helps, i think oi can find it now, well, tomorow anyway. it's 3:40 in the morning right now.

 

When ya locate that fitting, upon gauge connection, some gas will spurt out.
No biggie, have a rag available.
Hope you get the answers ya seeks to solve your mystery!
PS ya can now rent out that guage to others to make back initial costs!

 

I have the same gauge. It's pretty nice. You can also use it to depresurize the fuel lines with the clear rubber line. Just hook it up put the clear hose in a bottle and press the black button. Very handy when it comes time to replace your fuel filter.

 

Just a quick one for ya -

When you hook up the gauge, first put the car in RUN, do NOT start it up.

You should have at least 40psi from the pump, without the car running.

 

thanks doward, the stupid useless haynes book actually said that :shock: (not being sarcastic, well not towards you, see prior posts bashing book.)



one thing i don't know, when i put the foot to the floor and i am tacking it up like a civic driver, will the fuel pressure drop?

honda drivers got

 

so, my ful pump is putting out 12 PSI. so i think that just might be the problem.

Cost so far 29.99

i took a good picture to help others but i have forgotten the password to my angelfire page that i use to host picturs on so you guys are out of luck.

wait i'll just attach it, it is usefull in case somone does a search for this and needs more help.

 

ok, so i called the dealership for parts, in addition to a fuel pump they said i should get a fuel dampner as well? its some kind of noise reduction thingie. for 20$ i am thinking i will just re-use the old one, but i dont want to get the pump on there just to discover that i need a new dampner, opinions?

i made a POLL!!! on this subject in the general engine forum. check it out and give feedback there

 

DON'T REUSE THE OLD PULSATOR!!!

No!! Seriously, no! Don't re-use it. Two options- Buy new, or dont' use one at all. Here's the skinny.

The pulsator's connection to the fuel pump outlet and the feed tube's inlet is just by o-rings. After time, these o-rings act like any other o-ring- they shrink and crack and leak- and that causes a drop in fuel pressure.

So don't use a pulsator. I re-used mine when I first dropped the tank, then I found out about this problem.

When I dropped the tank a second time (dead pump... hm... pulsator?), I didn't use any pulsator. I used the short piece of high-pressure hose that comes with the fuel pump, and two clamps. Tighten the clamps down like hell- but don't crack the fuel pump outlet- and you're set for life. No o-rings to crack and leak. I didn't notice the pump being any louder without the pulsator, either. And I have to wonder if my first replacement pump died because it was being overworked by a leaking pulsator.

I used special "fuel injection clamps". They were $5 for a four-pack instead of $2, but they seem to provide a 360 degree seal, as opposed to a normal hose clamp.

It's also a great idea to replace the old hoses by the tank with new ones. Unfortunately the pressure hose is a special order item that probably won't be delievered in time for your swap. But the other hoses can be replaced since they're all low pressure. You can even use just regular fuel hose (instead of expensive fuel pressure hose) since they're not under pressure.

 

NOW YA GOT A SOLID ANSWER!
I rebuild my fuel system using all AC Delco GM parts.
I got every item called for.
It was about 4 items had to buy plus good help from a good friend for allowing me to use his above ground lift for this fuel pump swap mission.
You got the PITA mission except for one detail!
DO IT RIGHT SO THIS MISSION MAY NEVER BE REPEATED!
In my instance I did not replace fuel hoses. Being a CA car, my hoses in great shape.

Aren't ya glad this fuel pump failure did not happen as you were driving to Phoenix for having your car be a mock up mold for the headers?
PS Other plus outta this?
Your car will perform like it once did, with lots more power! Promise!

 

so, since i bought the pulsation dampener, and not the high pressure hose, should i just install the NEW pulsation dampener instead of waiting for a hose?

also, since i have not yet dropped the tank and can't look, how many feet of fuel tubing will i need to replace all the others, do i just buy the lenght and then cut it myself or is this stuff like metal or somthing. where i wouuld need to buy the official GM pontiac 86 firebird v6 fuel hoses?

thanks all for the help:hail:

 

You can start planning for this project by raising the car about 12 - 14" off ground at rear and start/lower the exhaust from the frame, then lower the rear axle (at shocks/panhard rear bar, disconnect there), then access the steel fuel tank cover.
Check your hoses before ya buy.

How else to decide about specific fuel line hoses is to go to any GM dealer & ask for the fuel system at gas tank illustrated print out along with the part list (& numbers).
Once gas tank is down & out you can always go back for more parts before ya reverse installation.

OH!
DON'T FORGET TO REMOVE THE GAS CAP before ya yank tank from gas door area! You'll be surprised how much that tip will help ya!
Installation tip.
Once ya got the gas tank fuel neck relocated properly in the gas tank door area, the rest of tank falls back into place, easier!

IF ya plan on keeping this car for LONG TIME, do this job once & right.

 

so i had about a seven paragraph story about a learning experiance i wasd going to force upon all of you about why do it oce do nit right is my moto, but i pushed "post Preview" and somthng went wrong. so **** it i am not going to type all that again.

 

IF all goes well (& it should) you'll have less trouble doing the pump swap mission!

 

ok few questions:

1.the fuel neck. i need to remove my fuel neck shroud. it wont come out couse the door is in the way, can't get the door out of the way couse the fill neck is in the way, can't get the fill neck out till the shroud is out, the shroud..........

2.the directions say to "disconect the exhaust at the catalitic converter" mie is wealded, will this couse a problem.

3. when attempting to bridge the pump to pump out the fuel my upshift light came on, this never comes on when i am driving, why not?

all for now, thanks

 

Fuel neck.
Again, make sure the cap is off.
IF cap off, pull down on tank, twist & rip/yank it out of fuel neck area. It'll come loose & tank become removed.
IF ya wanna, ya can replace that seal, once the tank is outta car. I left mine, with larger access hole, no big deal. Yes, I get some more road dirt in there, but it settles in the bottom away from cap area.
Exhaust, I recall on mine that I loosened it (at rear) and pushed, pipe dropped down, just far enough, to get axle lower & tank out.

Kinda like the heater core swap I'm doing on my 1985 Firebird. I removed all screws to the dash frame support, loosened dash frame support from car birdcage frame, then pushed & went to work to remove the core cover assembly. I never removed the dash frame assembly from car, just far enough.

Rip out tank, worry not about the neck area surround & enjoy getting to work.

I do not know about your "?" in #3.

 

got the tank out. took some work, bent my fuel sending line on the fuel sender unit, hope it's ok. that unit costs 500$.

had to disconect the two ars tht go streight back and connect to the axel to drop the axel ALL THE WAY down to get the fuel tank out, as for the exhuast and loosening bolts IT"S WEALDED ON AT THE CAT! some jerk figured "its quicker, and way easy" too bad or me. also ccidentally cut my fuel sending rubber hose (the one that goes from the pipe i bent to the fuel filter. that cost me fourty dollars to have net day aired. damn. lets see what else did i break today....... nope think thats it. damn.....

 

I have an ad in the classifieds for a fuel pump, sending unit, and a new tank for $300 if you break anything

Good luck with it though, and make sure to check everything while you are in there!

 

i almost broke the $500.00 dollar sending unit. the thing with all the hard lines that holds the fuel pump, guage and stuff, MAN would that have sucked. as it is though i just bent the fuel tube (fuel feed line) it does not look bad, i don't think it will hinder fuel flow much. i hope, else i might take you up on that tank, thers no way i will find one in a junk yard in portland, there are like ten f-bodys in my local u pull it that have NOTHIN' on 'em. the next ones are up in washington, there are like three up there, one was pretty complete back in july, i actually pulled good hood shocks off of it CHA-Ching. anyways thanks for letting me know about the tank and such.

 

Yah, I had my tank, fuel pump, sending unit, and all my lines replaced a few months ago... it went like this:

Tank: $380
Sendning unit: $470
Pump: $140
Lines: $230
Labor: Some rediculous amout

Then I found a 91 parts car that had all that stuff new (hence the classified ad)

 

i actually pulled good hood shocks off of it CHA-Ching.

To solve that problem on my 85 Firebird.......
At a swap meet, I bought a hood prop rod set up for $1.
I installed it on the Firebird & never worried again!
NOW ON REAR GLASS........ For that I buy the shocks (actually I got a spare set for free & one worked one didn't but.........I'll worry about the back hatch another day).
Best thoughts on the fuel pump mission.
Atleast ya have the pressure gauge to test your effort/results.

 

well, drove the car home at 2:30 am. it runs great. ok so the total cost was as follows

Fuel pressure test gauge 39.99
Fuel Filter 11.99
fuel hose for siphoning (unusable) 7.92
replacement fuel hose for tank 3.96
4 hose clamps 1.69
new strainer (from a blazer) 10.35
new hardline w/rush delivery 40.06
fuel pulsation dampiner (pulsator) 10.63
Fuel pump 58.61
shipping on pump/pulsator from
gmparts direct.com 19.67

TOTAL COST OF PROJECT (not including my time, pizza, or gas) 204.57

 

Congrats on the fuel pump swap. I went the easy way and paid 280$ for it to be done in a shop.

They spent like 6 hours on it but only charged me the book rate of 4 I think.

They didn't like me much for asking them to do it LOL.

 

X, did you get a new pressure hose? Or is that what you meant by the hard line? And if you got a new pressure hose- what's the part #? I should order myself one or three! Actually if you can give all the gm parts numbers for the gm-specific stuff, that'd be cool too!

 

Have you used gauge on car since teh new pump?
Curious about what your new pressure registers, beside "Car is now operational!".

 

i purchased the Hard line/soft line combo that goes from the sending unit hose on the tank, to the fuel filter, i will get part # later (left alot of recipts at other house) going back today to change the oil andget them. in fact i think i'll do that now....

 

i am sorry, i could not find the invoices, my dads G/F cleans up constantly and i think she tossed em'. she does not know i keep all of my car part recipts. not her fault, i guess i should not have left them out. anyway, so no part number on that, but any GM dealership will be able to tell you.

in other news, i replaced my headlights with ultrawhite ultrabrite ones. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! i can see again. also i have a turn signal question, but thats a topic for another thread, who knows maybe a search will prove fruitfull. ok it did not, i will edit in a link to my new thread about my turn signal trouble


EDIT:
here is a link to tony's turn signal trouble in the electrics forum:
Tony's turn signal trouble

 

I gave ya my solution to your turn signal problem.

 

thanks man, oh and by the way, tested the fuel pressure

when i turn the key to on and it primes it goes to like 15PSI
once it starts it hovers around 38-41 psi and once i turn it off about 43 PSI remain in the system.

**** YEA!!!!! nice to know me bening the hard line (fuel delivery line ) did not f up my fuel flow

once i solve my godamned ttop leak and my dam trunk leak all should be well

.........stupid ttops, man i wish i had a hard top, but i love them so much in the summer.........

BAH!!!

 

I had my trunk leak solved.
When had windshield replaced, I mentioned that exact problem.
They took a bead of the windshield holding stuff & ran it into he back window between metal & the window.
NO MORE LEAK!
I'll bet that's your solution, too.
T-Top from one with a 1974 Corvette T-top, both NEW (I ordered one for my Dad when younger) & also have a 74 now.
Two ways to cure the leaks.
NEW rubber gasket seal and also possibly (after new gasket) a build up of some rubber gasket stuff (like used on my back window) to help seal better.
And I'll bet Subframe connectors to keep body from flexing would also assist, too.
My Corvette solution?
New rubber T Top trim will be my solution.
But I don't drive Corvette in rain & I keep car covered during the rain storms (in plastic & a car cover).

 

yeh i pullet the plastic piece off the inside of the hatch so i cas see if thats where itis leaking. unfortunatly since i did that i have not driven in the rain.