erictheviking

Hi,
Found another awesome set-up from our friends at BBS designs.It seems amongst all the talk they are one of the only ones offering real hardware.Wouldn't mind it myself but... BBS designs

BBSDesigns

Hi erictheviking,
So what do you think about it? My personal opinion, this one is the best yet. I most probably now discontinue the serpentine belt kit, because with this TT kit there's is no reason for me to keep fabricating the serpentine belt.

Dewey316

It looks good.

Are you selling just the headers for twins? Just something i would like to see, but the headers, minus the turbo flange, so that you can flange them for whatever turbos you descide to run.

Kit looks good though. do you have any more pics of it, possibly with downpipe routing included.

BBSDesigns

Hi Dewey316,
Yes I offer the headers alone, check on http://www.bbsdesigns.net
But you have to remeber this; This kit was designed to fit both serpentine belt and V belt 1982-1992 SBC F-Body cars with A/C and everything. If you get the headers and install them with different turbos other than the ones shown, it will not work without some modifications to the A/C dryer unit, and probably have clearance problems with the valve covers. The turbos used in this kit have been modified. The wastegate actuators/arms have been re-located and or modified to fit inside the car without further modifications to anything else. Notice the passengers turbo and the wastegate actuator in the picture, it has been re-located inwards. If you get a standard TO3 turbo, it will have the actuator on the other side, where all the A/C components/hoses are. Also if you are planning on running TO4's without internal wastegate or TO3/TO4 hybrids with internal wastegate with this turbo headers, again the compressor housings on this turbos won't clear the valve covers. If you want just the headers, I offer them, but remeber that they should be mate with this same turbos or simmilar in dimension and they have to have their wastegates modified/re-located, if is going to be used on a stock 3rd gen SBC F-Body without modifications or deleting of parts.

Dewey316

well, i have no AC, but i was thinking of T03/T04 hybrids ( i guess you read my mind).

I jsut looked at your sight, how do those headers differ from the 'Race' headers, as in turbo location.

BBSDesigns

The race style twin turbo headers are designed for using TO4 flanged turbos with tangential housings, on-center housings wont do, but who wants on-center housings? The turbos are located more to the front at the end of the valve covers, not in the middle like the street & strip. The street & strip TT kit have their turbos located at the middle so they will clear the power accessories, but in the race since they are for racing applications, who the _ell wants A/C? Also the race style turbo headers have provision for external wastegates.

Dewey316

Gotcha, i looked closer at the pictures, it make sense.

i assume the race version is designed to work for v-belt setups, with the alternator mounted down low on the pass. side?

BBSDesigns

You are right, the race version is designed around a V belt setup, I'm pretty sure that it can be mounted on a serpentine setup also with some modifications, but I think that if someone is considering to go this far is better to look for a V belt on a junkyard and pay for it like you would pay for rotten meat; cheap, near free!

fb305svs

Not to beat a dead horse, but what would expected HP ratings on the turbos you include? and could we get different sizes within the constraints of the sizes availiabel for those hosuings?

i'm looking to build a 383 for boost, and would like to keep all my accesories (serpentine setup) so i have a feeling i would be needing some larger turbo's...

Steve

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

So BBS will you still be offering the single kit for a/c equipped vbelt cars ? From what i've seen it looked like you were only dropping the serp single setup.

BBSDesigns

Hi fb305svs and Z28*****,
These turbos are capable of up to 300hp each and to supply enough flow for a 355ci, a bigger ci than that is just running the turbos out of breath.
Yes I will still make the V belt kit and the turboheader of the serpentine belt setup, but just the header.

Here is the picture of the kit been talked about for those joining late.

ps: I have tried several times to change what I thought was a mistake of mine when typing, but now I realize that I cannot type the word; r_cer. Pardon my lack of knowledge, but why dosent this word appear when typed?

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

There is a filter on it, too many people referring to peoples mods or cars with the term, was used a little too loosely next thing you know anything not stock just about was labeled uncle bens, good to hear there will still be a single kit

B4Ctom1

the single kit came out first

Steven89Iroc

As I said in that other thread, I'm very excited to see this.

More pictures please
I would like pics of all the components separately if you can do that.

I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but these ones are off the top of my head.
In your ad you say "Will require to connect the down pipes to the vehicle exsisting exhaust pipes after installation is done." Does this mean that they don't directly bolt up? Does it include a Y pipe or do the downpipes dump out by themselves? What size are the downpipes, 2.5"?

You say that the stock stuff can handle 6 psi, I take this to mean that the wastegates have 6 psi springs, am I right?

I have no issues with the fact that it doesn't include any compressor/inlet pipes, as I would be adding an intercooler and BOV anyway, so no questions there.

Also, if you have any pertinent additional information to share, please do so. Thanks alot,
Steven

89JYturbo

I'm looking closely at that passenger side turbo and WG. I know you said you had to modify the WG actuators, and I was just wondering exactly how that was done. It appears as though that metal loop going up over the turbine housing transmits the torque to the opposite side of the turbo to actuate the stock flapper valve. Is this corrrect? Looks very creative.

Its great that you made a TT system that fits all factory accessories- that is a real accomplishment! I would like to see it in your test car.

92rs85berlintta

iTrader: (1)

what about hood clearance and temps? will this be to close to the hood that it would discolor the paint from heat in the future?

fb305svs

BBS - would more capable turbos be availiable if i were to order from you espcailly since i would be lookin to push more than that...

BBSDesigns

Hi Steven89Iroc,
As soon I get more pictures I will post them, no problem. The downpipes dont have any flange at all, the conection between the vehicles exhaust pipes and the downpipes must be "slip-on" style. For that is necessary to go to a muffler shop so that they can modify the current exhaust pipes in the car so that the downpipes slip into them. Also there is no need for a "Y" pipe, by modifing the one that the cars has like I explained above is sufficient. Down pipes are mandrel bent steel 2.25" dia with laser cut 1/4" thk. 3-bolt attaching flanges for turbos. The turbos have internal wastegates which can be adjusted for more or less boost.

Hi 89JYturbo,
Yes you are right! The stainless steel 1/8" x 3/4" wide flat bar transfers the torque to the other side where there is more space. The wastegate valve is cut and the flat bar is welded to it with enough clearance for movement, but no play. At the other end I fabricated a pivot point that attaches to the turbo's bolts and the wastegate diagphram is modified and re-located along with the pin necessary for moving the whole thing. The flat bar pivots close to the turbo, so that it dosent interfere with anything.

Hi 92rs85berlintta,
As with anything that generates heat and is close to painted surfaces or parts that need heat protection, is recomended that some kind of heat shield is used.

and Hi fb305svs,
Bigger turbos are a problem, what it can be done is upgrades to the ones shown. I have got mate small turbo compressor housings with bigger compressor wheels in several occations. By giving the turbo to a turbo shop, they are able to bore the compressor housing and modify the turbo to mate a specific wheel. This process should always be done by some shop that knows what they are doing. They will then balance the turbo and voila! more flow.

Steven89Iroc

Thanks for trying to get more pictures up here. I forgot to ask for the obvious ones, the ones with the kit installed in a thirdgen. That would be great as well.
What I am referring to as a Y pipe is a piece that joins the two downpipes together to mate to the single exhaust that runs to the back of the car. I have a single cat setup, the "Y" has to be somewhere before that, that's all I mean, I'm not going to do a dual exhaust. I guess I'll have to see pictures to see exactly what you mean.
Internal wastegates (just the same as externals in this respect) have a set boost level that they will run without any form of boost control hooked up, do to the spring pressure inside of them. I was just wondering exactly what this set level is.
Thanks.

Steven

Steven89Iroc

Oh wait, I just reread that. You're saying that you still use the stock Y-pipe, you just cut it and slip the DP's into it before the Y? Is this right? If that's the case then I'd make my own Y-pipe anyway because that tiny stock crush bent POS doesn't even belong on a performance car to begin with.

Oh, and another question. I know you can't play with turbo sizing with this kit, but I'd like to know what the specs are on them anyway, such as turbine and compressor AR, turbine and compressor wheel trim, and compressor inlet/oulet sizes. Could you let me know? Thanks.
Steven

BBSDesigns

Hi Steven89Iroc,
The TBO3 turbochargers specs; Compressor side is A/R.42 with 60 Trim wheels, Turbine side is A/R .48 with Stage I wheels.

Yes, you are right about the "Y" pipe. You leave the stock exhaust pipes(or use the opportunity to make at muffler shop a better flowable "Y" pipe) and ask the muffler shop to cut the stock flanges from each exhaust pipe that use to connect to the manifolds on each side. The idea is to ask the muffler shop to make a pipe extension from the stock exhaust pipe on each side that use to connect to the stock manifolds, that will slip onto the new downpipes. I will include a picture of how it could be done.

The wastegates springs have a given pressure value and come pre-set from the manufacturer, but if you thread-in the arm actuator you will increase the seat pressure in the valve, setting the wastegate to open at higher boost and if you un-thread the actuator, well, you will then decrease the boost level at which it will open.

Pictures of the kit being installed on a car you will have to wait until I install one, because I didnt took any pictures of the complete kit installed in the cars I work it out. The only bad pictures I have are some that include the just one side header while being fabricated, just some pipes welded in the flange that I took for personal reference for fabricating purposes. I worked on two different cars for this kit and never got to take the picture of the complete installed in one of the cars. I used my personal V belt car for this and the other is from a friend of mine, a serpentine belt car.

Steven89Iroc

Wow, there wasn't even enough room to use a .63 A/R turbine huh? It is tight in there. Those turbos should spool almost instantly I'd think (especially to only 6-7 psi), with 2.85 liters feeding each one.

Thanks for clarifying about the Y pipe, making a new one wouldn't be too hard.

I didn't realize the wastegate actuators were adjustable, that explains it.

I guess for now all I'm waiting for is more pictures. Thanks for all the info.

Steven

91rslt1

iTrader: (1)

Wow I am really interested in this kit. I was thinking about doing a turbo (or maybe an ATI procharger) and I think this is my best option so far. It is designed to fit a 3rd gen with a SBC, perfect. BBSD this would not be a problem right, since I have a 91 w/ a 95 LT1? So can the turbos be modified to support the needs of a 383 or even a 396? I want to bulid a forged 383/396 with about 12-15 psi, could this kit be modified to keep up? I will also be doing a front mount intercooler, do you sell one that is a good fit?
Great product, keep up the good work.

BBSDesigns

Hi 91rslt1,
I am currently working on looking to modify TO3's with larger wheels for larger displacement engines(bigger than 355ci), but this is no guarantee that this will ever happen, that I will offer them. I dont think that the LT1 is a problem, as a matter of fact there is more clearance between the intke and turbos, due to the fact that the are no runners.
My opinion is; I offer single turbo either for the V belt with A/C or serpentine belt with A/C, and street/strip twin turbo for both V belt with A/C and serpentine belt with A/C and race twin turbo for those that dont mind removing the A/C components and making some modifications. I think that all the bases are covered regarding turbo kits for the 3rd gen f-body family, with the exception of the V6's which I will develop a twin turbo kit as soon I have a chance.
I will now move onto the 4th gen f-body, is not that I no longer have interest in the 3rd gens(I love my GTA and <FONT color=red size=4>NO</FONT> 4th gen is going to change that!), but there is no other turbo kit to make for this generation(3rd) that is sellable. I am currently working on a 4th gen 5spd Camaro with the 3.4 liter mill, and this baby is going to be "the little engine that could" with a twin turbo kit that is going to even the fight with the bigger V8 brother.

ps: If the bigger modified TO3's is a <FONT color=green>GO</FONT>, I will let you know.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You may want to look at what you'd have for air intake clearance on the passenger side turbo with the twin kit, not to mention the small exhaust side of the twin kits turbos, with a vette front accessory setup his Single kit should fit just fine, and you'd have a good bit more turbos that would support what you'd like.

Gambit69

I just recently seen this setup and I think it looks awesome. I have an 89 Firebird Formula 350 and was thinking of getting a supercharger to put on it but I think it might be interesting to have a turbo on the car instead. Just kind of curious as to what would be better for the daily driver. the single turbo setup or a twin turbo setup. Just wondering what everyone thinks.

camaroracer1992

i have an edelbrock pro flo EFI unit i want one of these turbo setups!!!!! what adaptability would be needed? etc.?

BBSDesigns

Hi Gambit69,
The twin turbo spools faster and is also much faster to install.

Hi Camaroracer1992,
To adapt the turbo system to the Pro Flo EFI unit is a matter of pressurizing the throttle body with a carburetor bonnet or pressure plenum and adjusting the fuel mixture/timming to the turbo needs.

yamahaguy91

camaro_1983_383

I think that you should throw together a 3rd gen BIG BLOCK kit. that would fit my 85 IROC 427 very nicely!!

Steven89Iroc

BBSDesigns, you have a PM.

BBSDesigns

Hi Steven89Iroc,
Answering to your questions; I talked to the Garrett people, but basically they are offering me a larger size turbo, TO4. This dosent help. I am talking to friend of mine which owns a turbocharger shop which is certified by Turbonetics, Garrett, etc...to make the turbos for me using the same TO3 like on the street & strip kit turbos, but with larger wheels: stage III and compressor wheel of 2.180 inducer and 2.750 mayor diameters for larger (355+) displacement engines applications. He is still making some research and I beleive that by tomorrow I'll your answers.

Steven89Iroc

Great, thanks.
By chance, have you tried fitting a .63 a/r turbine on yet to see if it would at all clear?

BBSDesigns

Hi Steven89Iroc,

Good news! The turbocharger up-grade is possible. The bigger turbo option will include larger stage III turbine wheels with up to .63 A/R turbine housing and TO4's 57 trim compressor wheel with 2.230 inducer and 2.950 major diameters. The upgrade will climb the flow rate of the turbos up to 49 lbs/min each, thats 15 lbs/min of more flow than the standard turbo that come in the kit. This upgrade on the turbos will be capable of flowing an engine up to 427ci on twin application.
I'll put more details on the website.

Steven89Iroc

Awesome! That is great news! We'll take this back to PM now.

Fred91GTA

Hey, this kit looks awesome... the best yet... does this mean that every piece of emissions equipment is included? Including the AIR pipes? Where would the AIR pipes be located? On the downpipes? Here in NYC, as long as we have all emission equipment in place, it's all a go, so if this kit's got everything, you have a guaranteed sale...

Steven89Iroc

If you want to pass emmisions, you might not want to get a pre-fabbed turbo kit. There aren't any that will.

novass

iTrader: (1)

here in western new york 95 and older there is no emissions testing. You just must have the factory emissions equipment to pass, it does not need to function.

What I had been contiplating with the turbo kit is to tap into the header tube and weld in a pipe and a check valve, like on the 4th gens or even my 93 s10. Instead of having the individual lines above each port there is one large pipe at the end of the manifold where the air is pumped in.

This way I would still have the air pump for emissions. I'm not sure what I am going to do yet.

B4Ctom1

you will need one of these:

Air Cap

and unless the edelbrock system has a provision for boost referrence (I don't believe it does)

you will also need one of these:

FMU's

and regardless of what anyone else here tells you, you can't run one of those FMU's safely without a good inline pump, regardless of what in tank pump you have because there is no in tank that can get the job done better than:

Vortech T-rex in-line or some other good inline


note: if you already have an inline and an intank the t-rex may not be needed.

Also if you are willing to change your idle air control motor, injectors, wiring harness, and ECM to a 749 style and get a laptop with a serial port, buy some software to scan and burn chips as well as the chip burning equipment and buy or build scan cables and prom adapters. Then you can skip the extra pump and FMU idea.

Fred91GTA

Yeah, I know... but basically what novass said... I need the emisisons equipment in place, but they don't need to work... I tune my own chips and will be switching over to the $58 or $60 code (if it's done in time) to run boost with a factory computer. That way I won't have an FMU dumping ungodly amounts of fuel into my motor and making it run a lot richer than it should be at boost.

Yeah, tuning for boost and passing emissions... easier said than done... I know...

But hell, if some people can make a SCed V8 pass emissions, I sure as hell can do it with turbo kit that lets me keep my smog stuff (for visual purposes only)

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

I understand that these headers are made "using only the strongest materials", but is that material mild steel or stainless?

BIG_MODS

iTrader: (9)

I understand that these headers are made "using only the strongest materials", but is that material mild steel or stainless?

erictheviking

Christ,it's Foghorn leghorn!