Is the model year on this car wrong or did they make a non-IROC convertable Z with 91-92 GFX in 90?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6161

I think its mislabeled but I wana make sure im not missing something.

 

I'd say the year is wrong.

 

its vin says 1990

"Here are the results for your query on: 1G1FP2383LL104108
Made in: United States
Manufacturer: General Motors
Make: Chevrolet
Carline Code: F-Body
Carline Series: Camaro (all models)
Body Type: 2 door coupe (hatchback)
Restraint System: Manual belts (driver inflatable)
Engine Code: 350 ci V8 B2L/L98 (1987-1992)
3 is the CHECK DIGIT
Model Year: 1990
Assembly Plant: Van Nuys
Production Sequence: 104108"

unless he has a bogus vin or something
id say he just modded the exterior of the the car to look like a 91-92 z car

although wait a minute, it also says hes got a 350 under the hood according to vin, but he has it listed as a 305, so he would have had to have blown the 350 and replaced with a 305 or chose to downgrade, if so he can send me his 350

anyways in retrospect i think hes trying to pull a fast one on somebody, as opposed to it just bieng listed wrong, whoever has the 5.5 grand better check the vin on the car and ask a lot of questions befor handing it over to the guy



edit: just reread my post, its vin also says it is a HATCHBACK

 

so the plot thickens. This auction has to be a scam. The amount of work this guy would have to do to the car to turn it from a hatch 90 IROC to a teal convertable 91-92 clone would be insane.

Three more questions, was teal an availbe color in 90 on an IROC, what year did they start putting airbags in, and what year did they go to the new style dash and yellow dash badge? Note the dah badge says Z28, not IROC-Z.

 

Something is really fishy there. Its definately a 91 color...

That, and virtually no convertibles came with 350's. Most will say none, but BillSpeed on here has an 89 convertible with a 350 so who knows.

That to me doesn't look like an IROC at all. Not wheels, not color, not gfx, not hood, nothing. If it were an IROC-Z, it would say Z28 with IROC-Z under it on the dash and the side and rear emblems would say IROC-Z (I know, I have a 1990).

I really suspect that the VIN shown is not he vin of the displayed vehicle.

BUYER BEWARE!

 

this is what the seller sent me...

"if you look on f bodys. com the dash gauges and driver side airbag were changed in 90 thats all correct the only thin added were scoops the ground effects are factory look at the other 90 on ebay the red coupe a bidder made me aware that my car is a factory 350 i didnt know i only drove the car 2000 miles in 2 years i bought it to put away the car is very valuable being a 350 he obtained this info from the vin# thanks rob"

This is fishy....

 

ask him why his vin decodes to a coupe instead of a vert, that should clear up his selective knowledge of f-cars and what his vin says his car is, once again

 

You know, its really irritating that people are either that sneaky, or that stupid... Why? Because it makes honest people look bad... How? Here's how:

I am selling a TRUE RPO/VIN verified 1990 IROC-Z hardtop and everyone who looks at it seems to wonder if its a true IROC-Z.

Its like people are genuinely skeptical anymore because of how many RS models are identified and sold as IROCs or Z28 models.

I actually bought the 1990 IROC from the owner who told me (and had the for sale sign saying) it was a 350 5.7 V8.

I knew better than to believe that, being that the VIN, badging, stickers, underhood sticker and RPO information all matched it being a 305 TPI car........ I didn't say anything because I was already getting the car for what I considered a great deal.

Its just irritating that people try to pass a car off as rare or collectible, when in reality, its a fake or something else.

ARGH. Someone needs to tell this guy to post the correct ViN with a picture and tell him he's selling a 1991 Z28 convertible.

 

I wonder if maybe the car is using a 1990 IROC VIN# on a 1991 Z28 convertible...... maybe its a total fraud and the current owner/seller doesn't even know it.

The other thing that floors me is the VIN says 350, but we all know there were no 350 verts... or at least not factory.... and that vin claims it to be factory.

 

This just irritates me so bad I messaged the seller:

"I'm sure you've gotten a couple emails on this, but there is something that doesn't add up on this auction. Maybe you're aware of it, or maybe you're not.

That car is one of two things: Either a 1991 Z28 or a 1990 IROC-Z.

In any year IROC/Z28 from 87-92, you could not get a factory 350 and a convertible. Didn't happen, period. If the VIN you provided is on that car, its a fake VIN or off of another IROC-Z.

The body of that car is total 91-92 Z28. The hood blisters, the ground effects, wheels, everything including the badging and interior show it to be a 91-92 Z28, not an IROC.

The simple truth is the VIN# does not match that car. The VIN shows it first off to be a 1990 coupe, not convertible, a 350, which we know didn't come in a convertible from the factory (and therefore shouldn't be on the VIN).

For that VIN to be correct for that car, the car would have had to start life as a 1990 350 V8 IROC-Z hardtop or t-top. Just trying to be helpful."

That's all eBay would let me send at once. Hopefully I get a response.

 

Yeah Dante that pretty much sums it up. I'm curious as hell to see what this bozo has to say. Either he's trying to pull a scam, or the last owner scammed him. Either way it's a big problem.

 

yeah the car dosent look half bad, it could even be mint, pictures arent a good, indication, he needs to get it corrected, cause it is a good looking car, and a vert, that alone makes it worth a few dollars, "rare" or not, i dont know which to hope, if he is scamming or he got scammed, cause if he got scammed, hes not a jerk, but still means he robably paid a jacked price on it, however if hes the scammer, no remorse, he needs some fraud busted on him, his ebay feedback only has 2 neg comments

 

One other thing that points to a 91- 92 car is that there are rear lights in the back side panels(barely visible in one of the interior shots). I believe this wasn't an option until 1992 or at least late in the 91 convertible production year. SO the car pictured is a 91-92 car.

 

You mean this?:



If so, didn't all factory 3rdgen verts have that? Either way, most everything as far as interior was the same from 90-92, so it may not be a 100% clear indication.

Worst case scenario on this car is it is a factory 305TPI 1991 or 1992 Z28. Its obviously a Z28... maybe its newer than the owner/seller thinks. At worst, it just has a smaller engine. I'd think the owner would want to get it straight.

 

87-90 Convertibles did not have any rear interior illumination, only the lights in the rear view mirror, as I said earlier ASC started putting in the lights I believe towards the end of the 91 model year. As far as I know all 92 have them and quite possibly all 91's as well. Its the 91 model year that I'm not sure of, but I know they were not available in 1990 (as I have one of these). Also the91-92 rear panels are more opulant than in previous years, my car has the top of the line interior for 1990 and the rear panels are quite plain compared to the ones on that car.

 

Hmm...... I didn't think the 90-92 verts were ASC conversions. I thought they were GM factory? Maybe designed by ASC, but I didn't think they actually were made by ASC after the cars were built.

 

All thirdgen converts left Van nuys (or Norwood)as T top cars and were converted at ASC's plant in The City of Industry CA(or Livonia Mi until '87). The fourth gen converts were built on the GM line, but definately all 87-92 factory authorized convertibles were converted by ASC.

 

Are you 100000% sure???? I knew in the late 80's all of those cars were converted by ASC............... but not in the 90's. Otherwise the RPO codes would show CC1 on all convertibles.

 

I'm sure, do a search if you are stiil in doubt, or pose the question on the convertible board.

 

this is what I wrote the guy today...

"Rob,
I am a member of www.thirdgen.org, probably the best site on the net for info on 82-92 F-bodies. After reviewing the info in your add, we suspect your auction is not what it apprears. First of all, you are correct that the new style dash was first intoroduced in 90 so you are safe there.

Now for the areas of concern, The ground effects on your car are from a 91-92 model, they were NEVER put on a 90 car. The same is true of the hood. The wheels on the car are also 91-92 wheels. If the car is a 90 Z28, then it must also be an IROC-Z. Your dash badge is one from a 91-92 Z28 leading me to believe that the car is not an IROC as they said IROC-Z on them. The color of your car, teal, was not offered in 90. There are no IROC exterior badges, they all say Z28 which is incorrect for a 90. There are no IROC-Z door decals. Finally, the car's VIN comes back as it being a 350ci car. It is generally accepted that there were never any convertable 350 cars ever made. Some people argue this point, but reliable factory documentation has never been presented to prove the existance of a 350 convertable. When we ran your VIN, your car came back as a hatchback.

"Here are the results for your query on: 1G1FP2383LL104108
Made in: United States
Manufacturer: General Motors
Make: Chevrolet
Carline Code: F-Body
Carline Series: Camaro (all models)
Body Type: 2 door coupe (hatchback)
Restraint System: Manual belts (driver inflatable)
Engine Code: 350 ci V8 B2L/L98 (1987-1992)
3 is the CHECK DIGIT
Model Year: 1990
Assembly Plant: Van Nuys
Production Sequence: 104108"

So what is the real deal with this car? Did you convert it to look like a 91-92 Z or is it not a 90 or what? "


This is the response he gave me:

"because car was built by asc as a dealer option there are many websites that state there are 350 cars thanks rob"

This dudes email is All 4 My LadyBug@aol.com


This guy isnt answering the questions I asked. Kinda looks like hes skirting the issue.

 

..now that statement brings up an interesting point. Regardless of whether or not it's the case with this car, isn't that possible? Generally speaking I mean?

 

It is definitly possible that this car has a 350 in it, that doesnt surprise me. What I dont believe is that there is ONE 90 IROC convertable running around with a full 91-92 Z exterior and interior in a non-1990 paint color with an obviously very rare 350/convertable combo. All those things dont generally happen in one car without the owner saying "ya, it was a 90 IROC that I did a full conversion on to look like a 91-92 Z" or something. Everyone here knows that there wasnt one 90 IROC let out of the factory with all that 91-92 stuff on it and sold to the public. You might as well slap a 5-speed/350 combo into the car to totally complete its unicorn status. This guy is lying or he captured the unicorn and we all should bid on this car cause its the one thing we have all doubted for so long but still hoped for, a car that doesnt exist according to anything we have ever seen and that everyone will deny exists unless you prove it.

 

I know no 91-92 350 cars has Tees/CC1. What about 90 Irocs?

If they were NOT available, and it was in fact a dealer optioned 350 car with a vert, it would explain the lack of CC1 RPO.
----------

There are still plenty of reasons to call shenanigans, I'm just curious about the dealer vert issue. Whether or not they exist, it's certainly not ridiculous to think it happened. The fabled 86 L98 cars, the L98/T5 cars, they all have good reasons for not existing, but dealer optioned 350 verts? Why not. The tooling was there, and I'm sure there was at least SOME interest.

Why not?

....as I sit here typing, I figured out why. It's easier to swap a 350 into a vert, than to put a vert into a 350 car.

 

Unicorn?

You know, fabled creature...long horn.

 

"Im gona pistolwhip the next guy who says shenanigans. HEY FARVA!!!"

 

My 91 RS vert has the lights in the rear panels.

another note but Its really hard to see. It looks to be a 91. The Gauge Needles are Yellow not orange like in 92

 

I got an interestingly similar reply from the seller:

"you can order car through asc it has asc decal on door still that is the vin ,somone added on effects, car is a real convertible all camaors were built by asc the only way you can get a 350 is order from dealer thanks rob "

*** Wether this guy was taken when he bought it or if he's just an outright fake is irrelevant at this point. He obviously doesn't want the truth or doesn't want to accept the fact that other people KNOW the truth about that car. ***

 

About the websites or 350 cars? We all know there are both. .... and there are probably a lot that confirms it... Although as we all know, TGO is basically the only source for 3rdgen info that after some research, I accept.

 

A couple things:

I agree the car is not what the guy says/thinks it is.

It's a late model '91 car.

3 reasons

1. As said, it has the lights in the sail panels. These started late in the '91 model year (my early prod. '91 does NOT have them)

2. The color of the gauges represents a '91 car

3. On the center console, the tonneau (sp?) switch is NOT there, meaning it is on the cover itself, which def. didn't change until late '91. No '90 car had the switch there, and that would take an aweful lot of work to move the switch.

Case closed.

 

A few questions. What is the talk about the gauges? My 90 IROC has the yellow needles...

As for the tonneau cover switch, got a pic of it? Never seen it before.

<--- man I've posted a lot on this topic. It just floors me when we see such blatently(sp?) misrepresented stuff like this on eBay. Ebay is a haven for ignorance.

 

'90 - '91 the gauges are yellow, like yours. For '92 they were darker, more of an orangish color.


I don't have a pic of the switch on a later '91/'92 car. Here's a pic of an early '91 like mine. The switch in the middle is for the black plastic tonneau thing.




A later production '91 or a '92 car would have the switch here:



The car in question has no middle switch on the center console, meaning it is on the cover itself. a '90 car did not have a switch on the cover.

 

Interesting on the switch in the middle.

my 91RS has the switch in the middle and the lights in the rear.

 

Auction ended last night with reserve being met, Has been re-listed twice since then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Follow The Link's for Re-Listing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Anyone else hear anything else on this auction?

 

Another thought; This could be a stolen car with the Vin plate from a legit car which is why the vin doesn't match the options. That kinda **** happens alot around here.

 

It looks like the second relisting was removed.. so I guess ebay is on to him.. but he will probably just sell it somewhere else.

My guess is that the car was totalled and has a rebuilt title. He probably saw an Iroc and got the vin off of it which is why the vin represents an incorrect year. That and the kinda shady pics makes you think hes trying to pull a fast one. Not the greatest pic but the air intake and radiator cover look mighty clean compared to the engine. look at how bright and shiny the stickers are compared with say the overflow bottle or brake fluid canister.. he also said it had been painted


I almost drove to florida to buy a 91 Z with 12K miles on it. I was leaving the next morning and somehow found out that it had been flipped and completely totalled in 92 and been sitting in a barn ever since. Then this guy and his buddy decided to fix it up and sell it as a mint low mileage car.. he even told me it had the original paint

 

Teal wasn't available on the 91Z... it was on 92 though.


I wouldn't buy it, but I wouldn't harass the guy about it either. Buyer beware.