BruceEmbry

Hi Everyone,
I have started the process to replace the TH200c traanmission with an new 4L60e(GM part number 12497318). This is the transmission used in the 97 Police package Tahoa. I have already purchased the transmission, forth-gen tail-housing, 700r4 aluminum drive shaft and torque arm.

I have a few questions concerning some of the other machnical aspects of the install.
1) I am still using the orginal flex-plate from the orginal 82 LG4. Will I have to get a different flex plate? I have an 350 small block with two piece rear main seal.
2) Spohn sells a transmission cross member for doing a 4l60e/LS1 swap into an third gen. LS14L60EXM. Will this cross-member work or will I have to have a custom one made?
3) Does anyone have the part number for the yoke that fits the transmission and drive shaft.
4) Does anyone have the part nuber for the torque arm bracket that fits the tailhousing? I was told that my current torque arm transmission bracket will not work.
5) What universals should I use for the drive shaft?

I understand the complete wiring requirements for the controllers. I am getting TCI controller. I also getting the Cable-X unit to drive the speedometer.
Thanks for your help!

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
I received the correct Tailshaft housing for my new transmision. I going to proceed to order rest of the machnical stuff, troque arm bracket and exhust hanger bracket for the tailhousing. I am ordering a new Yoke and universals for the drive shaft. After I get these parts. I will be ordering the cross member from Spohn. This list will complete all machnicals for the conversion for the transmissin install.

I have to get the shifter conversion kit, Cable-X and controller.
I also looking at options for the Slap Stick Shifter input.

Looks like the transmission going in during the holidays.

I still need the answers to the above questins.

BruceEmbry

Hi Everyone,

Since no-one didn't know the answers, I have spoken with the Part Manager At Performance Chavy, in Elizabeth City, NC. This is same Parts Manger that was the major help with my TPI conversion.

The new 4L60e 12497318 will fit this applicaiton. I have the complete list of all parts numbers that I need. As soon as I verify that I have the correct tailhousing for the transmission, I will be ordering rest of the parts and proceeding with the conversion.

BruceEmbry

Hi everyone,

I just found a sorce for the TCI 4L60e controller for much less money!

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...20&prmenbr=361

And does anyone really want to talk about something cool. Check This out

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...24&prmenbr=361

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

You shouldnt need to change the driveshaft, yokes, flexplate, nor the crossmember. If you are changing the tailshaft housing with the one from a f body 700R4 or 4L60E you just need the corresponding torque arm bracket.

BruceEmbry

All depends on which 4L60e that is being installed. I am using a new 4l60e heavy duty versoin that has the same case style as the 98-2002 Fbody.

I currently have a 200c in my 1982 Firebird. I now have the complete parts list. But got excited today when I found a lower price on the 4L60e controller. I also have the correct tailhousing for the 98-2002 F-body. I'm buying new slip yoke, universals.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Are you very sure the case is the same style as the LS1 F body ? Being that you said it was a replacement for a 97 tahoe and them not having a LSX based engine yet, for some reason it doesnt seem like the mount pad would have changed either.

BruceEmbry

Absolutly!
I have already seen and paid for the transmission. Its the two piece design similier to the LS1 4L60e. I asked the parts guy if the transmission will bolt up to the Gen 1 SB, his answer is YES!
This 4l60e transmission does not used the same part number as the LS1 4l60e. The transmissio includes a 2300 stall convertor.
The transmission is same length as the 700r4 but the mount pad is on the tailhousing. Go to www.tciauto.com for diminsions of the transmissin.

It looks like that GM in many cases has apply new technology to their trucks before they put them in their cars.
I have read storys that the 700r4s showed up in trucks back in 82 before they showed up in cars in 83.

BruceEmbry

Hi all,
I brought the 4L60e transmission home today. I just check the torque convertor and its 10.75 inch bolt pattern. It will bolt up to my current flex plate. Within the next month or so, I am planning on obtaining the rest of the machnical parts that is needed for the conversion.

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

thats awsome bruce .Cant wait to hear about your progress
good luck

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
I have made progress on my transmission install. Since the last write up, I have puchased the TCI TCU and new Electronic Curise Control I have completed the modifications of the wiring harnesses for both the TCU and Curise Control unit. I plan on this week in ordering the CableX unit, Shifter Conversion Kit, and transmission colling lines. I have already mearsured and the TCI TCU will be mounted too the ECM using some L brackets. I am thinking of putting the CableX unit inside of the console.

Friday after Thankgiving I am going to start the installation of all of the electronics and convert the shifter over for the Overdrive. Duing the electroincs install, I going to pull up the carpet and put in new padding. The day after Christmas the transmission is going in!

BruceEmbry

In referance to the same case style, was ment that the case is simalier to the LS1 style. The bolt pattern is for the GEN1 SBC
So there are actruely three drifferent versions of the 4L60e. They are,
1) 1 Piece case aka 700r4,
2) 2 Piece case for Gen1, Gen1 SBCs. "97 Tahoe Votec V8".
3) 2 Piece case for LS1.

I have number 2. and the tail housing from the LS1 style Fbody fits. The 700r4 Alu drive and torque arm also fits. I have to get the LS1 transmission style cross member from Spohn.

kboehringer

EDIT

BruceEmbry

Hi,
Nice to here from you!
I'm installing a 4L60e. The transmission was used in the 97 Police Package Tahoe. With tail-housing it is the exact same length as the 700r4 but the transmission cross member mount is in a different location. I have purchased a shifter conversion kit from Shiftworks. The shifter conversion kit includes a new detent bracket, and the shifter arm etc that is required for the transmission. There is a transmission cross-member for this application available from Spohn.

Am using the Aluminum drive shaft, and torque arm from the third gen. I'm using a tail-housing from a 2000 forth gen F-body so that I can bolt up the torque arm and exhaust hanger. I am ordering the brackets for the torque arm and exhaust hanger from Performance Chevy in Elizabeth City. I'm installing new slip yoke, universals etc.

This weekend I have been working to clean up the wiring to the alarm system. I just need to shorten the wires a little.

My plans are to get all wiring, shifter conversion, installation of the TCI TCU controller, Cable X unit, and new cruise control in before Christmas. The day after Christmas the 4L60e will go in. I'm having a local Ammco shop install the transmission and check everything out.

Sincerely

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
Made soom progress this weekend.
Finished clean up of Alarm System wiring.
Old machnical curise control is now GONE. Mounted new cruise control and mounted pushbuttons on dash for bump down and up functions. I still have to install the curise control wiring harness.

Its a slow process, but I want it right!

The day after thanksgiving, I plan on completing the curise control wiring, and start the install of the TCU wiring harness.

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.

Today update is sort of a milestone.
1) The TCI TCU now mounted too the ECM.
2) I installed the interface to the ECM to feed Tech, TPS, Ignition, and TCC signals into the Transmission harness.
3) The transmission harness was installed into the car and I had to extend it 20 inches.
4) The Curise control is now fully installed.

Next on the list.
I plan on cleaning up the wiring to my car stereo, installing the new detent bracket on the shifter, and installing the CableX unit into the console.

BruceEmbry

FYI, Attached document contains drawing deteiling electroic inteface.

BruceEmbry

Hi Everyone,
It is Dec 03 and the complete electroic wiring is all done. I completed the re-wiring of the stereo system today. I moved the sub-woofer crossover to the area of the console just under the power windows switches. I installed the Cable X unit underneath the stereo head unit (radio/cassette). Yes guys I still have a cassett player in my car. I use a Mini-Disc player as a digital source. Please note I was planning on installing the CableX unit under the power window switchs, but the darn speedometer cable was not long enough.

So the day the transmission is install. I will have to perform four tasks.
1) Install the shifter.
2) Drop the hush panal on driver side and connect the CableX unit's cable to the Speedometer.
3) Drop the hush panal on the passenger side and plug in the 6 pin harness between the ECM and TCU
4) Install the fuse under the hood that supplies power to the TCU.


But I do have a show stopper. The Shiftworks shifter conversion kit will not work.

So I need to locate a 700r4 shifter from a Camaro. The Camaro shifter should allow me to used my Ponitac shifter ****. So if any of you guys has a 700r4 shifter for sale please drop me a PM. I will be calling Hawks on Monday to see if they have the shifter.

kboehringer

EDIT

BruceEmbry

Hay!
I just responded to your PM. I have a ideal they may work and solve all of my problems. If I can find a detent bracket that will fit my shifter. Then I can drill the rivits out of the bracket and replace it with the detent bracket from a from a 700r4 shifter. I look forward to your response.

Bruce

kboehringer

EDIT

BruceEmbry

Thanks Kurt,
I have already found a shifter on Ebay and paid for it. If it doesn't work, then it will be only $28. I have taken a look at the picture of the shifter and I think I might be able to merry the detent bracket from it to my shifter. If I think it will work, I will then take some pictures for posting.

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
The attach picture is the shifter I just purchased. I plan on removing the detent bracket and merrying it to my current shifter.
Hopefully this will work.

BruceEmbry

YES VIRGINIA THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS!

Today is a good day.
I have just cross the final hurdle to my 4l60e install.
THE SHIFTER PROBLEM IS SOLVED!
You all have already seen the picture from the 90 Camaro 700r4 shifter. Attached is a picture of the detent bracket after removal from the Camaro Shifter.

BruceEmbry

HI ALL,

And here is my 1982 Firebird shifter with the detent bracket align up. I still have to drill some holes. Slot out the detent bracket. After sloting out the detent bracket, the 700r4 detent bracket will be riverted to the shifter. The attached picture shows my orginal 1982 shifter with the 700r4 detent bracket tape to it for checking the aligment.

BruceEmbry

Hi again,
So, I get to keep my orginal shifter, lock cable, and shifter cable. I don't have to rip my dash or pull up my carpet.

YES VIRGINA THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
I have removed the rivits that held the white piece of plastic on the 700r4 detent bracket. The bracket is now clamped to the shifter for drilling of the two holes. I have to get a drill bit that can cut though the harden steel of the shifter detent bracket. Attached is picture of the shifter with the 700r4 detent bracket clamped to it.

kboehringer

EDIT

BruceEmbry

>EDIT: I hope this works out perfectly for you but I think I >remember a problem on the bottom end (tranny end) of the '82 >cable also. The throw of the TH700 lever as different and >we '90's cable mounted closer to the trans' lever. than the '82 >cable did. Maybe I just didn't take enough time to figure it all >out BEFORE I started rippin' the '82 stuff out of the car.


Hi Kurt,
In the beginning of this project I did some reserch. I read on many drifferent web-site that the PARK and LOW gear selections are in the same spot on the two transmissions ( 200c <> 4L60e.)

The problem I believe that you saw had to do with the actrual PARK position on the shifter and not the throw. The PARK position is not the same on the two shifters, but the throw is. As you noted the distance from the bracket to the cable attachment on the two shifters are not the same. I believe that the park position on the shifter and the position of the cable bracket in referance to the cable attachment determines the length of the cable. Given this, the length of the cable for the 90 shifter would be longer then the length of the cable for the 82 shifter.

Before I cut the detent bracket off of the 90 shifter, I made some measurements on the two shifters. I measured the throw. And I measure from the center of the rotation of the shifter to the Low postion. They were both the same. I'm 100% sure that I should not have any more problems with the shifter.

kboehringer

EDIT

BruceEmbry

>Sorry to vent..... just got an e-mail from an e-bay vendor telling >me that the sills he has off of a '91 will fit Derek's '82 perfectly >and "I" don't know what "I'm" talking about!!! UGH!!!

Nice vent Kurt,
I can agree 100% with you. There are many driffarant things about the 82/83s when they are compared to the later models. Some of the technology can be updated, other can't without major surgry(spelling). Please look for some of the other postings on this website for pictures of my engine compartment. It not easy to do these upgrades, but they are do-able.

Maybe the 82/83s should be called the third-gens and the rest of them should be forth-gens.

The 82/83 third-gens are fast disappearing from the landscape. These kids are ripping them up, and bone-heads are converting them to KITT cars. When I decided to do my engine upgrade back in 98, I decided at that time never to change the color, body, or interior. While my 82 is no longer a real 82 anymore, from the outside it looks to be a real 82.

I think, I made it better then it was and can enjoy it more then ever. Any yes she still turns heads like she did when she was new!!!

BruceEmbry

Hi Kurt,
Just for you, I just took a picture of my engine compartment. The cable laying on top of the BMR STB is the hookup for the 4L60e transmission. I made a custom bracket to mount the MSD box in front of the HVAC assembly. The battery was orginal on the other side. I still have the orginal V-belt setup, but I went with dual electric fans.

Sincerely,
Bruce

BruceEmbry

Hi all,
Shifter conversion was successful.
Here the picture of the completed converted shifter.

PS Anyone know where I can get a Mint Condition Console Shifter Trim plate please let me know!
Thanks

BruceEmbry

HI all,
I just installed the shifter back into the car. The shifter is working OK with the 200c transmission. Tommarow I plan on powering up the Transmission controller and checking for the presense of TPS voltage and tech signals using the monitoring software on the laptop. I also going to check that I have an tech input on the cruise control. If all goes well, then I will be making an appointment with AAMCO to have the transmission installed.

kboehringer

Bruce,
ANOTHER MINOR DIFFERENCE THAT MAY MEAN NOTHING ON THE FIREBIRD.

The CAMARO shifter plates on the later models are a little different. The newer models have a moving "Pointer/Shift Indicator" and the "Slide" has horizontal "Grooves". Also... The early models (ours '82) had a little wierd plastic "Conduit" of sorts that was able to reflect a small amount of light into the ash tray. The later models did not have that stupid little feature. Also.... The newer Plastic Ashtrays do not work properly with the OLDER shifter plate assy. because the older "Slider" will hit the ash tray and knock it out in Park. Finding one of the Newer style plates that is not Faded or Broken is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

It looks like the corner(s) of yours is broken off? Derek and I have a spare but it's definately NOT anything like perfect.....We replaced it because we found a little better one. I don't pay as much attention to the Firebirds and don't recall if the FireBird used the same shifter cover plate? Our spare looks like yours and it's 100% free if you want it. We're always looking for a better one.... they seem to be hard to find. Why do guys always tighten the living daylights out of those torx screws??????

Sincerely,
Kurt

BruceEmbry

Hi Kurt,
The 82 Firebird Console Shifter Plate (CSP) is completely drifferent from the Camaro. The Firebir CSP has a seperate light for the ashtray. The Camaro CSP will not fit the Firebird console.

This is not the orginal shifter plate. My orginal CSP was busted up in the accident back in 2002. If you do have a Firebird CSP, I will take it off of your hands for the cost of shipping. Please send me PM.
Thanks

Ricktpi

Got one from my 87 Z-28. Not pristine, but in good shape none the less.

BruceEmbry

87 or any Camaro shifter plate will not fit the 82/83/84 Firebird consoles.

BruceEmbry

Update Dec 23, 2005

Hello to All,
Today I powered up the TCI TCU controller. At first it would not connect to the computer. After some investagation I discovered that the sockets that I used for the relays were bad.

I replaced the relay sockets with stab on terminals.
And now the TCI TCU controller talks with the computer. I also have both tech and TPS signals coming from the ECM.

I also picked up the last part needed for the install.

The New 4L60e transmission will go in on Tuesday. The AAMCO shop is closed on Monday for Christmas.


I wish you all a Merry Christmas.

BruceEmbry

Hi All,
Tuesday Dec 27
Well I have two show stoppers to report, but these are temporary.

1) The 4L60e requires differant fittings for the cooling lines. The fittings are push in, not screw in.

2) I need a different dipstick. The 200c dipstick will not fit the 4L60e. The dipstick for the 4L60e is the same part as the 700r4. I have performed searches on this website and there is no information about the dip-stick. This website here http://chevythunder82.tripod.com/TrannySwap.htm doesn't mention anything about the dipstick.

The correct parts have been order overnight. The AAMCO shop check the rest of the parts and everything else looks OK!

Apparently no one else here has tried this type of conversion or we would have seen these things before. But there has been many 200c to 700r4 conversions done, but no mention of the dipstick.

So when this all gets complete, I going to post the parts that are needed for 4L60e install.

The good thing is that the shop has not removed the old transmission yet. So I was able to drive the car home and store it back in my garage.

The install is delayed for two days. We will try again Thursday morning.

SSC

Rob the fittings from your 200c and you should be good to go. Nice idea up there BTW about replacing the lock selector plate. I was just too lazy and made the newer shifter fit but thats an idea for the future.

BruceEmbry

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the input. But I think the installer would whether not mess with 4L60e's cooling lines fittings. They would very abamant about having the proper fittings for the cooling lines.

Thanks for the comments about the shifter. Replacing the detent bracket was a no-brainer. I wanted to avoid tearing out the dashboard to replace the lock cable, avoid messing with the orginal wiring in the car, etc..

BruceEmbry

HI All,
Update Dec 29, 2005 2:51 PM
Its been a long day. But here it goes. The car is up on the rack and not completed and will not be completed today because of one small problem. The dealer that promised to deliver the transmission cooling lines yesterday failed to delivery on time. The cooling lines came in yesterday morining but got misplaced. They were finaly deliveried this afternoon at 1:00 PM

The AMMCO shop had promised to have two other cars done today, so I will have to wait till tommarrow to get my car back.

The good news is, the new 4L60e transmission was test fitted this morning and has all of the proper clearances and everything elese matched up. It had to remove so that the cooling lines can be properly install.

So tomarrow I hope this phase of the project will be completed. Then I can start tuning the operation of the transmission with my laptop.

BruceEmbry

Dec 30, 2005
Hello everyone,
The 4L60e transmission install is complete and successful. The Shifter is working perfectly.
Got two items to complete; hookup Speedometer to Cable X
and set up the cruise control.

See you later I'm going to do the speedometer right now!

BruceEmbry

Final update for the day,
Speedometer is now connected to Cable X and it works. Calibration looks good, but I do have a bounce. I going to wait and see if the thing will settle down a bit.


A wire has brocken off of the set switch for the cruise control. I going to have to get another switch tomarrow.

It starting to look like the project will soon be closed. Ya-Ha!

BruceEmbry

Hello all,

Happy New Year!

Everything is now working! This is it guys, this project is done!
Today, after replacing a button and a fuse, the curise control started to work. I have been trying different switch settings on the curise control and have found the best settings.

The bounce in the speedometer has almost completly gone away. The speedometer is now steady at all speeds above 10 MPH and is very accurate.

My Old 82 Firebird no longer acts old. When the AAMOCO shop pulled out the old transmission, they found a bunch of things that were wore out. The old transmission mount and universals were toast.

Before the upgrade the car was vary load and rough feeling when going down the road. Today driving at 80 MPH the car was very smooth and quiet. The only thing that could be heard was the noise of the tires(very little) and the wind going over the top of the car.

As for performance, I can say the inprovements are outstanding. The 350TPI is a perfect match for this transmission. It is really cool to go down Cary parkway at 45MPH tuning only ~1100 RPMs. The other big performance inprovements are how the engine will make power up to and beyound 5000 RPM.

The stall of the torque convertor is right on the money. When going from First to Second at WOT, RPMs only drop to about ~2700 and the power surge will push you back into your seat.

The next thing for me to do is to turn the shift points, WOT, and other functions of the transmission.

I may do a brake upgrade sometime in the future. But for now I can enjoy my new 82 Firebird.

Happy New Year to all!

BruceEmbry

Hi all,
Subject says it all!

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

Thats fantastic bruce.So wheres your old th200C and what kind of condition is it in

BruceEmbry

The old 200c ended up with some problems that I was unaware of. The output shaft developed a wobble due to the worn univerisals. The wobble wasn't vary bad, but the fluid was burn't. So it was only a matter of time before the old 200c would have given up! I have been smalling something burning for the past 6 months or so!. And it turn out to be the old 200c. The funny part about this, is that if I han't replaced the transmission, I would be getting a free rebuild by AAMCO.

But the best part, I have already seen a inprovement in MPG from the car. And with the higher gearing of the 4L60e, the car is a lot faster. So the fun factor has gone up!

Yesterday, I took on and beat a new Hemi ( not truck).

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

Can you still get it rebuit for free at aamco