355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Doing a little port work on the SR. I need it to flow well enough to keep up with my 355 195afrs with a 224-230 .53*lift 112 cam. Do you guys think i should open it up more and take more of the runner walls out or what? Also need to do work on the base but have not got there yet. Whats the max CFM a ported accel base will flow without welding on it?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

That is a start. The biggest restriction is in the bend where it straightends out to go to the intake manifold. Then the intake manifold needs to be opened up.

TPI-Formula350-

are you using a stock of aftermarket base?

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Im runnin a non ported edelbrock base on my SLP setup now but i have 2 SRs that i will be workin on, both of them have accel bases. This one i have pics of is the one ill be stick in the for sale section. One of the two accel bases has been ported some already. Looks like a gret job but i think it can be opened up more so ill be using this one to open up as much as i can.....just not sure i want to do any welding on it yet. Would like to see how much i can get it to flow without welding.

How much of the center wall should/could i take out of the runners to pickup topend without killin the low end with my setup im lookin at building? The pics above are me honning my porting skills befor i go hog wild on the other SR i can

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Finished the other side tonight!

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Take the divider out and leave about 1/2in before the manifold. That will for sure get the rpms close to or above 6000.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

how much low end would i loose doing this?
How is the low end and mid range on your setup? Im thinkin about goin with your size cam and runnin your same setup on my project. Im waiting on dyno numbers and a vid of your car in auction lol

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

We did as Vincent suggested on a 400 block with a stealthram and it picked up torque with the shorter runners along with the better air flow. So you may not loose any torque at all. Do have a set of telescope or snap gauges and a dial caliper?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I think he meant Super Ram.
He's right! You may even gain torque and will gain HP.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

No i dont have these tools....why would i need them? I think i will take out more of the wall on my other SR.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...-ram-pics.html

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

With those tools you can accurately measure the cross sectional area of the port. Otherwise you are just guessing. Also they will help you in getting the cross sectional area of the ports the same for all cylinders.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Alright i took some close up pics with a camera. All i really did to the inside of the runners was use a 40grit flapper wheel and smoothed them out good. Then i took the wall out a bit and opened it up to swallow the golf ball. Also tapered the edge of the plenum to runner area. I will be goin back to bolt the runners to the plenum and make the plenum to runner match up so there is no "shoulders" at all! Also guess i should try and make the dividers less "knife" egded...i might have to take the divider back another 1/4" or so to get the rounded tho.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

What does the rest of the runner look like? From what I can tell you have not reached the pinch point of the runners.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

I have a 12" extention so i could get all the way down the runner from both sides.....it looks that same is in the pics all the way through the runners. Where is the pinch points on them? I can always do more work on the inside of the runners.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

The part of the runner that bolts up to the manifold opening should be 1.75 square inches. Looks like yours is only 1.68 square inches.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Haha alright ill have to open them up more! seems like there would not be much flat area left to seal up with the gaskets after being opened up that far.....

Burnout91

When you get it ported so that it looks like a Holley Stealth Ram, you'll be ready to make some power. Just kidding, looks nice, keep up the good work and don't listen to smart-***** like me, listen to VincentZ28 & 1989GTATransAm.

*I won't bring a lunch to the next dyno day, I'll be plenty full after eating my words*

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The pinch area is about where your golf ball stopped.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

would it be a bad idea if i ported enought to allow the golf ball to pass all the way through the runners?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"would it be a bad idea if i ported enought to allow the golf ball to pass all the way through the runners?"

That way you will have the same cross sectional area throughout the length of the post. Right now with that "pinch" point in place that will determine the flow of the runners. Opening it up will increase the cfm and match the cross sectional area of the rest of the runner.

Next you will need the intake manifold worked on.

doc

Thats exactly what I did to my SR, port until a golf ball will fall thru the runners.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Alright tonight i port matched the plenum to the runners and also dropped the center wall some...tried to get rid of the knife edge also! Now ill be goin back and workin on the "pinch" points and then ill have to work on the base!

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Looking at your pics, mine is ported pretty much exactly the same way. I got lucky and bought mine from a member on here a few years back who had already done all the hard work of porting it! If it's any consolation, I haven't noticed much, if any loss of low-end due to the port job. I've run it all the way up to 6K so far, and it felt like it still had a bit more left. I'm running a pretty similar setup to yours. 89 MAF system, 355 w/AFR 190's, 10.2 CR, 24 lb. SVO injectors, 52mm TB, 1.5 Comp Pro-Mags, and a Comp Extreme Energy Hyd. Roller(218/224, .495/.503, 112 LSA). I was surprised at how mellow the cam sounded when I fired it up the first time. It has a tiny bit of lope to it when the motor's cold, but it sounds really tame once the motor warms up. I almost went with the next biggest Comp XE (224/230, .503/.510, 112 LSA), and still wonder if I should've. But then again, it's a street car, and I wanted a really strong midrange, and considering it pulls all the way to 6K without tapering off, I probably did OK I guess! As I stated in the other SR post here, I accidentally fried the PCMforless chip I had burned for it, and I'm limping around with a Hypercrap chip at the moment, so I know there's a ton more power in the motor that I haven't seen yet. I'm still breaking the motor in, so even going to 6K makes me kinda nervous right now. I've also still got the stock exhaust manifolds on there for the break in. I got a brand new set of coated Hooker 2055's for it, but I didn't want to hurt the finish on the coating until the motor has been run for a bit. I'm really looking forward to seeing what she'll do once the chip and the exhaust are set up properly!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

I started workin on opening up the runners to swallow a golf ball all the way.....man i can tell this is goin to take some time! I spent almost 2 hours just to finish ONE runner! The ball will roll freely from one end to the other now! I also started to open up the base to swallow a ball. Not sure if you can tell from the pics but the base has already been ported and when i look at the stock accel vs this ported accel there is a good diff! How much more should i port it if any on the head side? It looks like it has been opened up almost to the injector o-ring groove so im not sure i need to go any more what do you guys think? I just took a flapper wheel to the base to smooth the one runner up and open it up to take the ball.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Nice got any vids of her runnin? For now im goin to inatll this intake on my motor with stock heads and a small 212-218 cam intell i buy the AFRs and do the head/cam swap! Im excited just to see the diff vs this ported SR and the ported SLP im runnin now.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The golf ball is showing you where the pinch points are in the runners. I bet most people do not open this area up like they should and therefore are not getting the flow they should.

Regarding the intake manifold without the proper tools to measure the ports you don't know where you are at. You need to buy a dial caliper and some telescoping gages.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

other then using these tools on this one project i wont use them much at all i dont think....does it have to be some $$$ tool or would somethin like this work fine?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Centr...item3a4f30a361
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Centr...item27b031a562

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Those are exactly what you need. You will need at least 2.04-2.15 sq area opening at the end of the runner to the head.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

As Vincent said yes. Those will do the job for what you are doing.

Long Beach Z-28

iTrader: (1)

Great thread so far, can't wait for some updates!!

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Wow, sorry I didn't reply back sooner! Didn't get an email notification like I usually do for some reason. I finally got the chip straightened out and the headers installed this past week. I'll have to do a quick vid with my digital cam and post it up for you guys. Car has great power, and it sounds amazingly tame at idle. Even with the headers, no cat, and the 3" catback, it's not overly aggressive sounding. Once you put your foot into it though, it gets pretty loud and really comes to life! Still trying to get the 1K break-in finished on the new motor, so I haven't gone completely ***** to the wall on the throttle yet! I'll tell ya one thing though, now that I finally got the TV cable geometry correct and the cable adjusted properly, when you mash the gas down and get the trans to kick down 2 gears at once, like it's supposed to do, it totally hauls! I kicked it down to pass a slow moving morning commuter yesterday and about gave them a coronary when I went screaming past!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

My project has been goin very slow the past few weeks...The weather has been sh*tty and i dont want to port inside and have to clean all the dust after. I want to get this finished up so i can install it! Still thinkin about how i want to fix the install problems like studing some of the holes....still not sure what im goin to do!

Ill be lookin for them vids Pat Hall

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Hell yeah, I couldn't agree with you more regarding the damn weather! Looks like we're in pretty close proximity of each other, and I tell ya, around here it's been nothing but high winds, rain, snow, you name it! I thought it was ridiculous the other day when it's the 1st of May and it's friggin snowing! Lol. The one mod you should absolutely, hands down do to your SR is slotting the ends of the inner bolts at the top of the runners so that you can draw them up into the plenum using a precision, flat-blade screwdriver. It saves a TON of time getting them tightened! Once you get them drawn up into the threaded holes of the plenum it just takes a couple of quick turns with a box-end, 1/4" wrench to fully tighten them up. I didn't slot the bolts on the driver's side and it took about an hour to get the 2 inner runner bolts tight because you can only turn the wrench about a 1/4 turn each time. After slotting the passenger side bolts, I had both inner ones done in about 10 minutes flat! I put the bolts in my bench vise and used a dremel with the tiny cutoff wheel to slot them. Like you, I considered trying to rig up some kind of studs, but simply slotting those upper bolts worked out great. I didn't go crazy with the RTV like a lot of guys either. I just used high-tack on the upper and lower runner gaskets, only on the runner sides of the gasket so that they'd stay in place. Didn't use any kind of sealant on the lid gasket. I initially tightened the lid bolts in a criss-cross pattern, then went around in a circle pattern 3 more times snugging them up. Everything sealed up great. Make damn sure the very bottom runner bolts actually tighten up all the way without them bottoming out in the holes. That's been the cause of a lot of leaky SR setups. Might have to use lots of RTV on a well-worn SR, but mine was practically brand new. The guy I bought it from purchased it new and only ran it for maybe 6 months or so. Anyways, yeah I'll try to get those vids soon!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

yea i might just do the slotted trick and call it good. But i like to tinker and make things simple so studs might be what i do lol. This SR seems to have some miles on it but everythin seems to be true and no stippped holes that i have found yet. I have yet to figure out where allll the bolts go when tryin put it all together on the table. The guy befor used a good amount of RTV on everythin so a good amount of the holes are gummed up and there a pain to get most all the bolts threaded. I need to have it fully cleaned and try to get all the gunk out of them holes but not sure how to go about it yet....might take it to a car wash and take the pressure washer to it Im thinkin about gettin a new bolt kit for it also. Tryin to find the right tap and die set seems to be tough also lol im gettin different answers from people on what size the bolts are.
The other SR i have for sale is in MUCH better shape and i dont want to sale it but i want to run the ported one vs stock and there is just WAY to much time in porting one of these suckers. ill be using this ported one and not goin to mess with the other SR i have.

RS Chris

A tap set will help clean up your threads. Also, have you considered using allen head bolts on the bottom of the plenum?

Nevermind, I reread your post and saw that you were already looking for tap set.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, after looking at the pics of the other SR you have for sale, I wouldn't molest that one if I were you. It looks to be in awesome condition! If you can figure out for sure what the thread sizes are, you ought to look into a set of thread-cleaning taps. Using regular taps to clean out the holes can actually weaken the threads since they're sharp enough that they remove a little metal each time. I never worry about that too much when working with steel threads, but aluminum is a different story. On the whole, most Accel products are chintzy to begin with, so Lord only knows what grade of aluminum they used for our SR's. But yeah, what I'd recommend is using actual thread cleaning taps. I lubricate the cleaning tap with thread cutting oil, then after the threads are chased I spray brake parts cleaner in the hole and blow it out with a rubber-tipped air nozzle. I used the same method to clean out the intake and exhaust mounting holes on my AFR's, and the bolts screwed in way easy afterwards and tightened up nicely. I got a set of the cleaning taps for a real reasonable price through Jegs, and they had them available in both metric and SAE. Think I paid like 10 bucks for a set of coarse, SAE ones. I have to mention to you once again, make sure to do a mock assembly on your workbench of the whole SR, including gaskets, and make sure those bottom runner bolts are short enough to tighten up completely. Oh yeah, that also reminds me, when you do the final assembly of the SR on your motor, don't tighten any of the bolts up all the way until you have all of them started in their holes. If you do end up attempting to use studs I'd love to see how it works out for you since I seriously contemplated that too. I chickened out though since I only have ONE SR to mess with! There is one member on here who tapped the upper runner holes and then screwed regular, hex-head bolts down from inside the plenum. You'd just have to make sure to use either loctite or a good set of lock washers if you went that route. It'd be awful if a loose bolt got sucked down into one of the cylinders!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

looks like it might flow close to a stock stealth ram! but aint gona touch my ported HSR. keep up the good work!

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

everybody wants to port the super ram?
on my lingenfelter 383 my camaro was in the 11.s with just a port match to the heads, with a right at 11.1 cr. and not going over 6000rpm.

im looking at maby porting it now but thats with a 427 sbc
and maby 6500 rpm

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Actually I probably woulda ran mine untouched, but the previous owner already did some port work on it before selling it to me, so I just went with it. He really didn't go hog wild on the porting though, all he did was siamese the top of the runners about an inch and a half down, removed the divider between each 2 ports in the base of the plenum, and cleaned up/squared off the exits of the the ports where they meet the head. I'm using the Fel-Pro 1256 gasket and AFR 190 heads on a 9.8:1 355 with the Comp Cams XE-502 hyd. roller. It roasts the tires off idle and pulls hard all the way to 6K. So I'm guessing the little bit of porting that was done hasn't really affected the bottom end much, if any at all.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Well i just finished the SR install tonight and will be taking it for a spin tomorrow after work i think! I just swaped out the ported SLP runners and plenum for the hogged out SR parts....still runnin the cleaned up port matched edelbrock base so well see how much i gain. Once i get around to doin the head/cam swap then ill do the accel welded/ported base! Im hopin it shifts my power band up some!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

ever get any vids of the car? Hows she running after the break in? I finished my SR install and i can tell the Kick down cable for the 700r4 is goin to be a pain....i see how the corvette guys run theres under the plunem next to the runners. I had mine set off out of the way so now im stuck. I DONT want to take the plenum off just to lay the TV cable under there....not sure what to do yet. I hope ill be able to fish the cable under the pleum and up to the TB but dout there is enough room for that,,,,

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Car's running fantastic now! I'll get around to a vid one of these days. My computer's kinda jacked at the moment. I can't even email pics or vids right now. I'm cursed with Windows Vista! There's a program that tries to automatically install itself every time I try to email pics or vids, and it just locks up my pc. As for your TV cable, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're probably gonna have to remove the plenum again, unless there's a way to get it to function properly while being routed on the outside of the runners. I laid mine down inside the runners before I bolted down the plenum. When I was having all the trouble getting the geometry correct, I thought about replacing the original TV cable with a brand new one I had sitting on the workbench. That idea ended pretty quick when I attempted to try and remove the original one! There definitely wasn't enough room between the fuel rail and the underside of the plenum to pull the cable back out. The transmission end of it MIGHT fit through there, didn't try that, just tried to pull the throttle end of it rearwards, and that simply won't slip through with everything bolted together. I eventually got everything working correctly with the original cable, thankfully, but I know if I ever have to replace the cable down the road, I'll be taking the plenum off again! If you do manage to get a functioning TV setup with the cable routed outside of the runners, I'd love to see some pics! It'd be nice to know if I have to replace mine later on, that I could just dyke the old one in two pieces, remove it, and route a new one outside the runners!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

...I feel like crying right now after reading about pulling the plenum just to install the TV cable. There has to be a different way i have been kickin around the idea of maybe making a new bracket maybe. or maybe i can take a die grinder to the smaller hole on top to fit the TV cable?
PS what part of Utah are you in?

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

This gives me hope. In this pic of the vet you can see the TV cable is not under the plenum. I saved the pic and then opened it in another program so i could zoom in. Cant see forsure how they did it BUT its not under the runners i know that much haha I HAVE to figure this out!

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

they go over the top, and under it

forgive the 8 years of dust from sitting..notice in the Photo of how and what a super ram is hooked up



and i have to ask..why are there guys cutting on a super ram? you installing it on a 454 small block and turning 7500rpm?
i bet the headers are only 1 3/4"..hehe its all in fun..have fun..right

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

mine uses the big square on the bottom of the bracket....not the small one like yours shows. I wonder where i could find one like yours today after work i started cutting up some metal to weld up and build a spacer about 1.25-1.5" think to push the bracket out some so i can run the TV cable on the outside of my runners. I hope the TV and throttle cable will still work with this idea. They might be on a little angle to hook to the TB but it wont to be bad i dont think. Ill try to finish it tomorrow and see how it works.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

yours is the same. look at the photo close

Goes over the top

cruse over the top (whats a hotrod without cruise?)

and Kick down Under

i always aply a sticky note to the top so i remember to place the kick down under the top half...lol

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, I know this isn't any help to you at this point, but I made DAMN sure to have the TV cable laying in there before I bolted the plenum down. Lol. Like I said though, if you actually figure out a good way to make it work outside the runners I'd love to see it! It's always good to know there's another way to skin a cat!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Sucks becase i read tons of tips and install idea for the SR befor i started on the swap and not once did i read about the kick down cable goin uncer the plenum....it never crossed my mind. Its bitting me in the ace now tho ill keep ya posted on what i end up doin! If i do take the plenum off ill be taking the time to stud it i think. Tryin to get the inner bolts started and tight was NO fun at all!