TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Good paragraph, there. Overcoming scrub radius with camber (static & dynamic). Outside that context, there are 'more things the drop spindles do,' but within the context, yes.
Also, I've seen John (87350IROC) post up clamping force data showing 4pot are practically equivalent to 6pot, and of course, cheaper. But this is another area where 6pot gives more even clamping force across the pad.
Using more of lightweight components vs throwing more mass at it - one should not have to argue this, but the peddlers are all competing for our dollars. I'm NOT putting John in this category (more should listen to him); actually, I get irritated for him when people discount his advice. For a street app, four will do nicely.

RECAP:
Like many here, my application is street first, then some HPDE's. For street, the two main contenders are 245 or 275 - or the 8" vs 9.5".

Question: Besides Dean, anyone here own and use a pyro at the track? What have you learned?

SlickTrackGod

4pots prettry much always have more clamping force then an equvilant sized 6pot because of the use of two larger piston diameter have more sq in area then 3 smaller ones. the advantage of the three as you stated is the smoothness and equal pressure in puts behind the pad as it presses the pad to the rotor face.

You need to get a proportionate balance or ratio of piston volume betwent he fronts and rears...AND have the proper matercylinder bore to feed those sizes. Going to larger bores on all 4 corners usually requires a larger MC bore for a better pedal feel. The setup I did was not that much of an increase whereas my stock MC worked well.
Now ont he truck is a different story. I went to a hydroboost and fitting it with C6 Zo6 calipers which increae my volume quite a bit. the hydroboost can force much more pressure but I went to a large 1 3/8" bore MC from a 1 3/16" stock because trucks pedals are notorious for LOTS of pedal throw. I am tall and do not fit so I needed to lower the static point of the pedal and decrease the throw...as well as increase the volume for that decreased throw. THis massive increase in volume raise the pedal effort quite dramatically so the hydroboost was a mustdo.

Every professional race team on the face of the Earth use pryos or infared data acquition. It is the best way out there to get the actual core heat of the tire footprint across it's width on each wheel. The key here is temps drop QUICKLY after the car comes off the track. You need to scramble to it (crew members) to ge tthe temps ASAP

Dreambird. What you are showing is exactly the same priciple as my SRB. You throw the angle of the strut over in order to stand the spindle up and you massively increase your SAI which is bad.

TEDS (Brian)- the main advantage of drop sindles of course is the raise roll centers and overall raise roll couple by not having to drop the rear as well to match the front 9which goes into the sdirt upon lowering via conventional shorter spring route.

Side note: I have to run. Heading to our seires orientation meeting at the track today for the upcoming race season.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Yup it all depends on the caliper. I small squarish caliper like stock will get its biggest piston area with a single piston. A normal modern caliper (LS1, C5/C6, FSL) will get its biggest piston area with two pistons. Some of the modern very long calipers (CTS-V - II, ZR1) will get maximum piston area with tree pistons, it just depends on the caliper.

And as I always point out, brake pedal feel is very personal. I always try to find out what people are looking for when they say they want a better pedal. Personally, I like a short, firm brake pedal. Others like longer pedal travel. This is the whole reason why I created my chart of brake options.

I got "into the business" because I see so much misinformation on the brake forum. People mindlessly recommending different brake without knowing the requirements. I am not high volume or low cost, and I don't desire to be. Advice and information are always free, .

Anyway, sorry to get off topic. Let me know if you need any weight data, I have a whole bunch of stock and aftermarket parts laying around.

Dreambird

But if I where to run say a 17x9'' wide wheel instead of the 16x8's I have now this would work with your Strut Relocation Bracket correct ? along with a extended lower control arm 1/2'' , power steering rack mounted on top of spindle steering arm + ackerman mod , 1'' ext ball joints and relocating the sway bar , I would also drop the Eibach's and go with some Ground Control weight jacks. These are the wheels I was thinking of using 17x9 10mm offset

http://www.wheelstudio.com/view-whee...ll/vehicle-all

SlickTrackGod

I think you need to make sure you realize that this is one of my "secret" designs I was "GOING TO TRY TO ENGINNER NEXT". Do not take these ideas as facts, I never did this. BUT just like my Wilwood build, it was the next in line and was going to be attempted while I had the 2.8motor out of the car and putting in the built 3.5l I was already building. I had plans to buy the Now ex a differnt car and take this down to take it to the next level- that never happened becasue of personal issues and the car is no longer.

Dreambird

Ok no problem , your incite is appreciated for sure. I am constantly doing research reading , getting peoples opinions and collecting data to figure out what the next steps are for the ride. Some may be used and some not , its always nice to have information to evaluate and compare with others ideas and compile your own opinions and decisions to move forward. I really wish there was a video series I could buy to better understand the engineering behind suspensions , I have plenty of alone time while I am away working to watch and learn.

SlickTrackGod

You're in SC fro christ sakes (LOL) go to your local shortrack and ask around if any team need help and oofer to pay your own way into the pits becasue you'd like to watch and learn. Teams are always looking for free help . Extra bodies come in handy for quick runs to the parts stores etc during a full day of practice, qualifying and then race night. It truely is the best way to learn being there and seeing race setups being done first hand almost hourly. It's the paying jobs that are hard to come by. Sponsor money is generally not handed out to an entire crew, on with the bigboys you see on TV. Teams wanting to win and move up will hire crew chiefs to run things and try and bring in quality help, but the experiences people generally want the free ride at the very least, and if possible also a little take home money for their knowledge and ability. Free help comes and goes all the time so realize there are teams that will aloow you to help, just don;t expect the free ride anytime in that first year until you can at least prove some wothiness and value for the second year that they can't do well if they loose you. Not alot of money in racing, but youw ill certasinly learn if humble and watch, then ask afterwards when pit stress cools. The key is staying out of the way unless asked, and ask questions afterwatrds, not during.

You in like NASCAR central. I just a west coast redheaded stepchild of NASCAR out here... It seriously is the best way to learn I can suggest- better then any book.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I'm waiting to see both of these

rb85TA

I think I'm more confused AFTER reading this post. ..than I was before!
MY HEAD HURTS MAA, LOL!
I know this is an old thread, but trying to decipher what I need to be doing for a street /AX sometimes daily driver, after all of the "engineering experts " using terms & abbreviations I don't know. .. I think I'll just take ALL of the parts I bought & my car , to a chassis shop. ... let them figure it out & what they don't use... I'll sell.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Confusion is the first step in learning.
You could get more grip if you rotated your car 90* clockwise, haha.

There's three basic things for our cars:
1. Raise front RC (extended ball joints), and slightly lower rear RC (Jegster axle side only).
2. Lower center of gravity (lowering springs - don't go crazy you need suspension movement).
3. Wider tire footprint (or optimal footprint depending on set-up).

Get the best Dampahs and Rubbahs you can find!
The rest is fine tuning: better bolt-ons, bushings, SFC, Spring and sway bar rates, etc.

There's no shame in turning it over to someone who knows what they're doing.
Good Luck!

rb85TA

OH SNAP!!! you said turn it clockwise. ... thought you said to turn it over, NOW HOW DO I GET THE ROOF TO POP OUT?
LOL!!!!!
Thanks, I've bought a bunch of parts, currently trying to find a set of drop spindles ( that won't break the bank ), I have to run a 19" front rim & tire package to clear my brake upgrade, so a drop spindle is almost a must....... wish me luck!
& THANKS, for the reply

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Bump, just for the read.