Kennerz

Luvofjah, I'm beginning to think that you may not have a 12:1 box if it doesn't feel as good as a 120K mile IROC. Also your running 60 series tires which are not as responsive as a 45 series or less. Not sure on the mickey Thompson's either. Really need a Z rated or better tire for these things to handle. Just keep working through it, eventually you'll get it sorted out. Unfortunately everything has to be right to get a decent feel out of these cars. Even loose wheel bearings can cause a loss of feeling, bad end links, worn idler arm, bad ball joints, no wonder bar, the list goes on, but all that basic stuff needs to be in good condition or it just won't feel right.

My car is tight, has my rebuilt factory Iroc box(like 15 yrs ago), and everything is adjusted & still no where near the feel of a newer electronic power steering assist car. Just plain takes a lot of work to dial them in.

What you need to try to do is figure out exactly what isn't up to par and not throw parts at it chasing a feeling. You will get there just don't give up on the car, it's a thirdgen, you are dealing with a combination of engineering triumphs and failures from the eighties. (There are more bad designs than good IMHO) But when a thirdgen is tuned/set up right - they feel really, really good. I think I speak for many people when I say we want you to succeed & appreciate you being the guinea pig.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

This guinea pig shiat is getting expensive !
Front wheel bearings, 400 miles on them...
The Iroc had 245 50 16's...
Feels great at 40+mph, it's just when slower & idle, not as smooth to turn as compared to 40+ mph, etc... I understand why of course... just hoping for more for the price I paid for the box...

I did email Founders and ask if the specs I were seeking should be a problem with stock height / size tire, awaiting to hear from them...

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Ugh, I missed the 60 series tires comment.

60 series tires will make ANY car feel like a boat on the ocean.

My Focus ST uses 235/40/18 series tires. My winter tires are 205/60/16s.

The difference in turn in on the exact same suspension is night and day. Actually more like surface of the sun vs black hole.

If you've never driven a focus ST they turn in like a jack rabbit on speed. Just a few degree's on the steering wheel results in a lane change. It requires extremely tiny corrections. Its practically teleportation.

When I put the winter tires on the car it feels like the car is rotating on a lazy susan. I turn the wheel and the car yaws in the direction I want, but the actual change in direction is slow as the sidewalls roll over like a walrus at seaworld.

The winter tires are like riding on a surface of Jello where the summers are the rails of a roller coaster track.

To be honest, I don't even like 50 series anymore. I prefer to be on 30-40 series rubber for the turn in.

My TransAm is on 275/40/17 Nitto NT05s, and I'd prefer to step down to 30 series on a 19" rim. I don't really care about ride quality on that car.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

So I guess the lesson, if you have 15" wheels and stock size tires and need a new box, go with something cheaper...

I did hear many good (not too many bad) things about PSC, it does have a 1 year warranty and they will rebuild it, re-valve it for cheap...

Spoke to Founders and they said the specs I wanted would not be a problem, so ordered those... wow, and for the price, the factory Moog ones I just bought were about $150 for the pair ?!?!? The Founders one's are $189 shipped...

Rafael

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Well, if you are eventually going to move to a larger diameter and wider rim combo then it may not be money wasted. But yes, most of the turn in response and steering feel will be lost with soft sidewall tires. But even back to back on the same tire/rim, you'd probably still feel a difference with the better box.

Kennerz

Loveofjah - didn't know you had a K.I.T.T. replica that's insane! Never seen a steering wheel like that. Cool car. That steering wheel probably feels a lil strange too. You are finding out - these cars are money pits... If you say the box feels better above 40mph - that is where they are supposedly superior, much more high speed road feel and feedback + increased control.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The more you push the car, the more you will like the more expensive 670.

You'll get more feed back from the tires as the slip angle increases. Using a heavier steering valve also improves feedback because less is lost due to assistance.

But these are all things that you need to consider for yourself. My car was intended as a Street Legal HDPE / Race Car. I made lots of concessions to street manners with my suspension and engine build choices.

You may not want to make those same concessions. I'm fine with feeling every pebble on the road, and having it make jarring noises in the interior. Most are not, I will admit that.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

any updates?

I was going to recommend switching front tires with your buddies iroc and see how the car drove with a better wheel/tire combo

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

It would be of no interest to me, the replica I'm building uses stock 15" wheels, there are no bigger ones... I got the Founders strut mounts, will install them soon, I expect a tad of improvement when I can get the settings I want, but not the "night and day" some people have stated...

Rafael

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You'll get some of it back, but remember the last link to the road is the tires. Weak flabby sidewalls are just going to hide alot of feedback. Sure, with the right tire all of the grip will be there, but the feedback will be vague.

I experience it every year when I switch over from the 235/40/18's to the 205/60/16s for my snow tires. It always takes me a few hundred miles to get used to the rolly polly sidewalls. Small inputs are lost, and emergency lane changes can be a scary thing because of all the extra time it takes for the tire to roll over.

If you are intent on staying with the 15" rims all of the direct feedback will be lost in those sidewalls.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I'm a bit sad that my 93 Honda accord with 15" wheels and not as wide tires as my Firebird feels better Updates after Founders Strut Mounts...

Rafael

NWFreerider

I'm following this thread. Pretty interesting info. I have to agree that tire size is making the car feel the way it does. Good luck with the new strut mounts. Next on my list are Detroit Speed struts mounts which are fully adjustable.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Your accord has rack and pinion steering, and narrow tires don't wander as much in the ruts of the road.

but if your alignment isn't in spec, then it won't drive right.

Is the box feeling better, or does it have that dead spot in the center still?

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Dead spots are gone...
And it did feel better after alignment, so I'm hoping a bit more with new strut mounts and alignment...

Feels good about 35 or so... not as smooth at lower speeds / rpms...

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

If the dead spots are gone, then I am very interested

What is not smooth below 35 mph? Is there not enough power assist requiring more effort on the driver?

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Yes, sometimes...
"What is not smooth below 35 mph? Is there not enough power assist requiring more effort on the driver?"

The pump is a couple years old, but probably less than 300 miles on it...

Oh & Turn One called this week (2 months later, instead of 2 weeks) if you want one of theirs....

Rafael

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

Can you elaborate on what is not smooth below 35mph?

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Not as easy to turn at lower speeds, so it feels a bit rougher...
Easier to turn at higher speeds... Feels smoother...

Doesn't seem to do it all the time...

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

So the steering effort is higher at lower speeds correct?

does it almost make the steering feel numb?

1slowbird

I'm new to this forum but not to f body's (second one) and cars in general. I am in the process of rebuilding a GTA that's been sitting for about 20 years. I was looking up steering boxes online and came across a 2.5-2.7 turn box from advance auto for somewhere around $120. I haven't researched the boxes as of yet but it sounded like a pretty quick one to me. part number is 27-6550 of anyone wants to check it out....

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

All GTAs should have the quick ratio box. It's 2.25 turns lock to lock. Or 12.7:1 if you want the other ratio.

Myorangecamaro

My 12:1 670 just arrived from CJR today! I went with the 2.20 valving. Just waiting now on the rag joint then I can slap it all together with the hydroboost! A whole new animal!

Fab1981

I need to know which is the factory steering box for an 88 iroc z28.., all that's listed is touring and non touring when I look it up to order.., nothing about ratios, and noting on revolutions from lock to lock ..Anyone have info on this..

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Depends on who is listing the boxes.

I would guess that "Touring" is the quick ratio box, and "Non-Touring" is the standard box.

But half the time this info is screwed up anyways.

Fab1981

Thanks but that doesn't help me much.. Anyone know the correct steering box for an 88iroc z28.. Is it the touring or non touring?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

It varies. Some IROCs got the Quick Ratio, some didn't.

All GTA's got the quick ratio box, but I'm not sure if all TransAm and Formula's did. Those might have been dependent on the WS6 Level 3 suspension.

The information is buried on these boards, you should start reading all of the steering related threads.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I called TurnOne to see if they could fix my Lee 670 box.. They said to ship it to them and if it's just an adjustment it'll cost only 50$, but if it needs to be rebuilt (which I doubt after only a couple thousand miles) it'll cost like 300$. I'll do this over winter.. Fingers crossed it's just that internal adjustment.

Fab1981

How do I know which one I have?? And is the touring the quick ratio? Or the non touring?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The questions you are asking can't be answered. These boxes were never referred to by those terms.

We can only tell you that the quick ratio boxes had a ratio of 12.7:1, and a Lock to Lock of 2.25 turns.

I'm sure there is information in the part#'s but with steering boxes its practically a black art because there isn't enough documented information. Touring is typically used for "sporty" cars, but that isn't a guarantee. We can't answer that. You'd need to grill the distributor about that specific part and get the specs from them. Most reman boxes are crap anyways, I don't think many people have been very happy with parts store items.

That said, this thread should be kept to discussing the 670 series boxes, and not the 800 or 700 series boxes. Search this forum, and post a new thread if you can't find the answer. But with all of the information buried on these forums you are bound to find something here.

Kennerz

The good boxes have a certain stamping/serial type number on them - that's how I figured out I had the quick ratio box, I don't remember the info though.. SOrry for the side track. This is an interesting thread for sure..

ProtoMaster22

Maybe This Question Has Been Answered, But I Keep Going To Junk Yards And Pulling Out Boxes With The FE2 Code, And They Are All Worn Out On In Inside When I Take Them Apart, And Have Decided To Just Buy A New One I Have A Worn Out XH Box On The Car Now, I Went To The Auto Store And Bought A Box But From What I Have Read They Seem To Be Junk As Well And I Count 3 Turns Lock To Lock. Im Looking At Buying The Borgeson New Delphi 600 Series 800209 From Summit Because, The $55 For All The Worn Out Boxes I Keep Buying I Could Have Already Had A New Box. My Question Is, Is There A Difference Between A 600 And A 670 Box?

Thanks For Your Help In Advance!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Not All 6oo Series Boxes Are The Same.

aND wHY dO yOU kEEP cAPTIOLIZING eACH wORD.

ProtoMaster22

Well Is The 600 I'm Looking At On summit The Qquivalent To My XH Box? And Sorry I Have A Habit Of Capping Every First Letter.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Its impossible to know.

The 670 series that I and others have purchased were customized to our specifications. For example, my box uses the standard 12.7:1 ratio for a factory 2.25 turns lock to lock, but uses a different valve in to provide less power assistance.

Another user here chose the 10:1 option for even quicker response (wish I had done that too. Which probably would have resulted in a lock to lock of about 1.8 turns. Very close to what my Focus ST, and I adore the steering speed and response on that car.

Almost everyone here using a 670 box had it custom built.

ProtoMaster22

But From What I Read The Guy Doesn't Do It Anymore Correct? And Per The Part Number It Does Claim To Be A 12.7:1 Here's The Link.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/br...t/model/camaro

mwfrels

FYI I talked with Turn One yesterday about getting one of their gears. The supply of cases from the manufacturer has resumed. Hey can provide new steering units again.

M