86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

If those heads were run with a stock valvetrain, ie. nobody messed with them and screwed something up, then at 100k miles they will be in practically brand new condition. The set with 245k miles on them out of my stock 98 pickup had no detectable wear in the guides and insignificant wear on the seats. With new valve seals and a little cleanup of casting flash and valveguide bosses in the ports, they're now running happily in the Firebird.

skinny z

I've used box stock Vortecs in a mild performance application and would say they were well worth the asking price new. If you can get a set for 100 bucks and get away without a valve job then that's a good deal.
If you're going to go beyond that with your build with springs, screw-in studs, etc., the money may be better spent somewhere else.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Been a little busy lately but here's the complete assembled longblock. Still have a lot of fuel line and vacuum work to do before it's done. Also want to swap in my 3.73 posi rearend before I plant the motor/trans combo in it's new home.

I'll be held up on progress for a little bit since I have to do a bunch of rust repair and welding/painting on my old van to get it ready to go to smoky mountains in 2 weeks but hopefully I'll have a chance to at least get it sat in place.

Just wanted to update anyone wandering.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Sorry everyone I've been tied up the last month but finally got some more done on the install. Got fuel system done and vacuum lines ran, wiring done, rearend swapped out with a 3.73 posi and rear disk brakes, air shocks installed, etc...

Just got the beast fired up a few hours ago, only ran it for 30 sec or so since I don't have coolant yet but it's alive, sounds MEAN! I left it open headers for initial start up wow factor. One hell of a rush when a fresh motor fires up to life that I built on my own! (With lots of forum guidance of course)

Tuned performance...... could you tell me what base timing I need to set? Wasn't sure if your custom tune needed something specific. If not can someone tell me if 6 deg base sounds like a good place to start? I'm a little ignorant on timing.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

start with 6 with the est disconnected. It might like more timing but until I get some datalogs I wouldn't go over 8 advanced .

RS-Chevy-SS

I just went with 0 with the est unplugged on my Vortec crate

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Thanks!

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the input, I'll try the suggestion from TP to start with though since he set up my memcal.

I'll let you guys know how it works out.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

@RS-Chevy-SS. I would stick with zero for now, your engine is running fairly lean so for now I wouldn't add any more timing. The timing table can be changed in the tune but being conservative until your closer to stoic.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Just to be clear. Your telling RS-Chevy-SS to stay at zero and your telling me to still start at 6BTC?

Just making extra sure I read this right.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

your right Gary

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Got it fired up again..... barely.

Exaust smells smells richie rich, won't idle for long, it loads up quick, and I'm getting a code 42 AND 43. I had to jam a butterknife in the throttle linkage to idle it up enough to keep it running on it's own while I tweeked the timing to 6 degrees. Then as soon as I took out the butter knife it died again. It acts just it has an old style manual choke that's stuck closed.

Gonna have to research this a little to see where to start. I'm 99% sure the knock sensor I'm using was out of the 85 350 TPI block. There are 2 sensors close to each other on passenger side that take the same plug ( Knock sensor and CTS in the head) I'm 75% sure I didn't get those mixed up.

If anyone has any good ideas PLEASE let me know!




EDIT..... switched the plug to the CTS on the side of the head with the plug/wire pluged knock senser and no change. still sets code 42 and 43 after running about 3-4 seconds and running the same. Will start right up and idle after it sits a little bit but starts loading up quickly, snap the throttle a couple times and sounds sickly and dies as soon as I let off the gas. HMMMMMMM.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

The sensor in the passenger side head is the fan switch. It operates the secondary fan.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

You need an 89 350 knock sensor.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Alright I feel dumb, Your right, all I needed was the other knock sensor. I had no idea it was THAT much different. I did also have the plugs mixed up on top of that but now the CEL is off and on to figuring out how to datalog so Tuned performance can dial me in.

Thanks for the help.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

the 89 tpi ks is 100k, you need a 90-92 tpi 350 3.9k knock sensor.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

His car is an 89 MAF. 90-92 are Speed Density. You're saying they use the same knock sensor? I don't think so but I could be wrong.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Sorry if I wasn't clear....

I have an 89 Iroc originally a 5.0 TBI, I converted harness to a 90-92 speed density and 7730 ecm. I did go ahead and get a knock sensor for a 1990 when I went to the parts store. I was wandering why you said 89 but I went ahead and went with a 90 since I knew I was speed density, now I see why you thought that since my car is actually an 89 model..

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Even though I'm running rough and rich I put the wheels on and decided to take it up my long driveway and back to make sure the tranny was working ok ( I changed clutches, steels, and swapped in corvette servo)...... I made it 6 feet and nipped the old rear-end laying in front of the garage I thought I had drug out of the way enough and blew out a nice firestone firehawk front tire.

Not a good Maiden voyage. I had 2 nice front tires and 2 bald back tires, now I basicly need a whole set.

I'm pretty much broke down until I save up to get some 245/50/16's.

skinny z

Ouch! Like one of my hot rodding buddies says "It's always something."
I feel your pain. Bought new heads, needed a short block. Bought a short block, needed the rear end rebuilt. Rebuilt the rear end, need new tires.
For what it's worth I found Discount Tire Online had about the best deal going for a quality tires. BFGoodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2 for $139 a piece. At the other end of the scale there's the Kumho Ecsta AST for $84.
Good luck.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Skinny, I really like those BF Goodrich. Think I'll get those whenever I start racking up some OT at work. Gotta focus on the tune for now and buy one of those 60 dollar ALEDL cables so I can try to datalog and get sent to Tunedperformance. I put a spare on it and took for a spin, it's really sick and feels about like a V6 on power, sputtering and having to feather throttle to keep it running with huge "fall on it's face" deadspots (I need to throw 5 gallons of fresh gas in her to make sure it's not just running out of gas since gauge reads really low, fuel pressure seems steady at 40-42psi ) . On the up side the tranny seems to be working good.

Hoping to find a cheap used aldl cable or a loaner from somebody, looked into building one and looks tricky soldering in resistors and stuff.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Hi all, I've been away and off the forum for a long time (REALLY BUSY). I've had my Iroc sitting for 6 months now and don't know what else to do at this point. I got a laptop, a Moates ALDL cable, and never could get tunerpro to work for me to datalog so I could send to Tunedperformance for re-tune. The dang thing is DONE other than tuning and I'm extremely frustrated. Thinking of cutting my losses and towing it somewhere to get it tuned (depending on cost). Could anyone tell me what you think is the best way to resolve this? Tunedperformance said I need to datalog it so he can dial it in. I've tried everything and can't do it ( I'm not very smart on computers).....

There's someplace in Cincinnati called LT1.com or something. You fill out an order form sheet and send them entire ecm/memcal and they program it for you and send it back but they also mention something about data logging so I might get in the same situation and dead in the water.

Figured I'd vent to you guys and maybe get a new direction or some sort of hope. PLEASE HELP! My poor Iroc has been sitting dormant collecting dust and it's about winter time.

Any advice or constructive criticism would be appreciated.

Thanks

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

TP got ahold of me and we're REAL close to getting this thing done! I have a friend who says he can datalog for me this weekend too.

skinny z

Good to see back again.
Keep us posted on your tuning and how the whole package performs in general.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Trying to get this thing done once and for all. Gathering everything possible to get this done.

New headers ( to eliminate leaks )
Actron OBD1 scanner
Air/fuel ratio meter ( suggested by TP)
New battery
Getting laptop repaired

Getting ready to send all specs to a new tuner to get a tune.

Sadly Tunedperformance can't tune anymore for personal reasons so I hate to bother him any more about this, he's helped me tons already.

I'll keep you guys posted. Sorry to dissapear for so long, all the help i've been given by you guys the LEAST I can do is wrap this thread up with final results!

skinny z

Hmm. Just about the same time as I'm getting my new top end together.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

I added a new set of headers, and an adjustable FPR to get my injector pressure up to 48 PSI. I Feel like a complete dumbass cause I finally uncovered a huge problem, probably the reason none of the tunes worked and I fouled plugs every 20-30 minutes before........ I had no idea Vortec heads took a much longer plug than an older TPI/TBI head. Just by dumb luck I decided to head to autozone to buy a fresh set, I brought a sample in and they weren't even close, vortec plugs are 1/2-3/4" longer than the older ones. The whole time I've been running rich and fouling plugs because of the dang sparkplugs.


Anyways, she's alive! What a beast! Snappy crisp throttle response. I haven't driven yet but it revvs like its hungry!


Just having a little trouble trying to set base timing. Brown wire by the blower motor unplugged. I think I have the timing tape put on right but it's way off the mark when it's running/starting great. As soon as I get the timing light on it and clock it towards the 6 deg mark it dies and hard cranks like the timings wayyyyy to advanced. I get it to about the zero mark and it dies every time.


Other than that just have to modify my Y pipe to fit new headers, replace plastic speedometer gears, and figure out how to datalog with datamaster ( can't figure out how to get ecm to talk to my laptop). Since this thread is so old and long I started a new thread in the DFI and ECM section.


More to come! I'm almost there!

skinny z

Good to hear it's alive.
Now, if you had a carb and conventional distributor....I'm not a contributor to the EFI section. There are way too many guys here that have boatloads of experience in that regard.
You'll have to start another thread once it's on the road and you're beating the snot out of it!

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Got er out on the road for a few hell runs. Very pleased with first run. This thing will haul! Needs some tweeking still but it's very close. Even with the 10" EDGE stall converter I can spin tires on rough country road well into 2nd gear then it hooks in hard and buries speedo quick.
Thought it caught on fire at first stop sign but it was just new headers and header wrap breaking in.
It died on me several times when coming to a stop, and after an absolute screaming wide open run ( hit 7000 rpm on accident!) it died and wouldn't start for a couple minutes. Just barely cranked like the timing was way advanced.
I got a code 44 and don't think I ever got into closed loop, I still have to figure out datamaster so I can datalog and send file to a couple guys, check my TPS voltage ( scan tool said 0.55 volts), and install A/F ratio meter.


I'll post up final results as soon as I can.
I

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

I finally got a datalog! I tried attaching file but I don't know if it worked. Final tune is in sight as soon as tuner gets back with me!

skinny z

Waiting....
I'm now in the process of tuning my carb and timing curve myself. Good old fashioned manual stuff!

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

MrWillys has has really went above and beyond helping me out. I unfortunately had to switch tuners from Brian originally. Brian has been great to me and I hope his health is ok since I facebook messaged him a few days ago and never heard back. I d on't want to pester him if he's not doing well at the moment.
As far as my datalog results I'm way lean and had to upgrade from 22lb bosch 3's to 24lb, also getting a speed sensor adapter to patch into my ecm at Scott recommendation. REALLY getting close now. Already received a new tune from Scott and I have the injectors and speed sensor on the way.

skinny z

Good to hear that the tune is starting to work out. I'm looking forward to your data logging results.
Where did you end up for pushrod length? Seems to me we went pretty deep into this trying to figure things out. I've just had another go round with my fresh heads. I feel like I can do this stuff in my sleep now.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Looks like I ended up at 7.400 on length. New tune and injectors just came in the mail, I'll be spending some quality time with my Iroc again this weekend!

skinny z

I'll be doing the same with mine when I get back to town. Freshly ported heads. Bigger cam. Quicker than ever but still lots of tuning ahead.
Good luck.

bk2life

nice to see the end in site for ya!

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm SOOOOOOOOO close, it's running and driving, hauls *** and hooks hard when I pour the coal to it, datalogs are good and tune would be complete other than 1 issue that won't go away........... It won't idle for crap! It dies every time I come to a stop or even let my foot off the gas. Tuner told me to try bumping up tps voltage to .60 from .55, no difference, I had to max out voltage at 1.08 to get it to idle but after a few minutes it started climbing in rpm's all the way up to 1500. If I put in gear it surges for 10 seconds or so and ends up dying. I tried tps voltage at 1.00 and it won't idle even in neutral.
Tuner has been very patient and helpful. He'll keep working with me until it's done, just giving an update.
I datalogged the 1.08 volt tps idle session and sent it to him for review. We'll see what he thinks.
Almost have this baby done!

skinny z

That's the best part always.
Staying tuned (no pun intended).

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Bump up fuel pressure

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

I sent datalog to tuner, he thinks it's a fault other than tune. I bumped up FP from 50psi to 60 psi, got a little better but still has idle issue. I put in an old tune from Brian Shoiak and it idled and stayed running if I put in gear, somethings wrong with that memcal though cause it always has a CEL and cooling fan runs constantly if ignition on. I know that tune is set up for 22lb injectors so I took it back out since I'm running 24lb injectors.
So, what to do? I know nothing about tuning but tuner told me datalog looked perfect.
From the start heres what I've done during this whole new tune chapter.....


Bought a tune online from a reputable tuner who specializes in TPI


Figured out how to datalog and results showed lean with 22lb injectors and died during stops but would idle.


Tuner had me upgrade to 24lb injectors and install speed sensor adapter since my 89 TBI harness was converted to a 90-92 speed density TPI harness and lacked speed sensor input. Tuner also sent me a second tune.


Datalogged new tune and still showed lean. Bumped up fuel pressure from 52lb to 60 lb and still lean.


After some head scratching installed new 3 wire heated O2 and Tah dah! Started getting good O2 sensor readings finally.


Fresh datalog results were good and tuner said we're good. No more tuning needed. But it still won't idle. Tuner sent me new TPS sensor and no changes.


Any ideas guys?

skinny z

Have you tried asking over in the EFI forum?
After 190 posts here, there isn't bound to be a lot of new traffic.
I'm sure somebody here has an answer. Post your data logs.

gbettner

iTrader: (2)

Good point, I'll get a fresh thread started up with detailed info today or tomorrow.