hectre13

iTrader: (4)

Hey All,

first of all, this is still in the planning process, but will be getting underway very soon. there are a couple things that should be noted here before we get into it..

I have made a deal with a local engine shop that if I made them a website that they would do all the machining work for me for free, and can get me most parts for the rebuild at cost. I'm trying to stay on a moderately tight budget, and buy parts as needed really. I can buy things in chunks, but don't want to go all crazy just because the machine work is free.

So here is what I would like out of my build, and please tell me if I am just dreaming, or its actually attainable.

- mostly a weekend cruiser, but occasional drag strip visits
- would like the car to be around 500 or so horsepower
- would like the engine to be durable, because I plan on keeping it for awhile
- would like to build it knowing that it will be bolted up to a T-56
- would like to run a FiTech EFI carb replacement setup on it
- will most likely be running on a late 90's 2 bolt main roller vortec block



Below is kind of what I was thinking build wise.. so far..

Engine:
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350 SBC engine with 2 bolt mains (new vortec roller block)

Valvetrain:
===============================
Option 1: Comp Complete Kit (K08-432-8) - $715.97
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- Cam: Xtreme Energy 282HR (08-432-8) $282.97
- Lifters: High Energy Hydraulic Roller Lifters (850-16) $223.97
- Timing Set: Hi-Tech Roller Race Timing Set (3136) $71.97
- Springs: Double Springs (986-16) $86.97
- Retainers: Valve Spring Retainers (740-16) $54.97
- Valve Locks: Super Valve Locks (611-16) $22.97
- Push Rods: High Energy Pushrods (7808-16) $36.97
- Valve Seals: Valve Seals (503-16) $22.97

Option 2: Buying parts individually
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- Cam: Xtreme Energy 282HR (08-432-8) $282.97
- Lifters: LS7 Lifters (12499225) - $90
- Timing Set: Summit Racing True Roller Timing Sets (SUM-G6601-9) - $39.97
- Springs: Comp Double Springs (986-16) $86.97
- Retainers:
- Valve Locks:
- Push Rods:
- Valve Seals:


Rocker Arms:
----------------
- depends on what heads are being used


Heads:
===============================
- Stock Vortec rebuilt and modified for higher lift (will these even work or be a decent fit?)
- Assault Racing 200cc 64cc Heads (Bare) $500 for the pair
- Speedmaster 205cc 64cc Heads (Bare) $500 or less shipped for the pair


Rotating Assembly:
===============================
- EngineKits.com 350 to 383 1pc RMS kit - $545 ( $893.95 Total )
-- Dish Top Forged Pistions - $199.95
-- Forged I beam rods - $149.99




any input is appreciated, valve train stuff is what blows my mind the most on what to do.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Cam is good. I would do opt 2 with ls7 lifters and do the 987 springs at minimum, preferably beehives or small diameter double spring

Heads the assaults i'm not sure about but i think they may be same as pro header. If so its a decent casting. Buy bare and have shop do the valves/guides/etc. properly machined and setup, they will do good

I can see a realistic 450-475 hp on something like that

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

what would be holding me back from that additional 25-50hp? the heads? cam?

so the springs i listed above were 986's, the 987 is minimal in cost difference so that wouldn't be a problem.

im assuming for the power level I am shooting for that the vortec heads are out of the question?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Stockish vortecs will do 450 in a big cam.

Heads are key here. Better port will do it but also may want more cam to go with it

One size up could get you closer. 288hr

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't be shooting for 500 hp with that cheap aftermarket cast crank. The rpm's needed to hit that number will kill it.
I'd have a lot more confidence in a 350 CID 500 hp motor with the factory crank.

HINKSON AUTO

From what I have seen over the years building performance engines I would not attempt to build a 500 horse 383 with a 2 bolt main, Thats spending good money on bad.

At least the GM 400 blocks that were 2 bolt mains that caps were wide to support the side loading because of the extra stroke.

Have the machine shop put splayed caps on !!!

Do yourself a favor and stay away from those cheap Chinese heads The Dart SHP heads 180 runner not much lift for roller cam !!!!

Cam I use alot of the Bullet cams with the .573 lift family with a 1.5 rocker

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

I've heard nothing but good things about them? what makes their cranks so bad in comparison to a 100k mile stock 350 crank?

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

The machine shop will be putting splayed caps, the reason for going with the 2 bolt main block is the fact that it is already setup for a roller cam instead of having to do a retrofit kit that will cost big bucks.

from reading around on this site, sounds like a lot of people were having good experience with those budget heads, especially when a machine shop can clean up some of the casting imperfections and such, what is so wrong with them?

HINKSON AUTO

Do a google search on those heads. Ask if those heads are heat treated like a Dart, AFR or Brodix head ??

If your looking at 500 horse a GOOOOOOD forged crank would be in order !!

Seeing your using a OEM block a sonic should be done before and work is done'

A Torque plate hone is a must for good ring seal plus zero deck for proper quench.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

That's what I was trying to say above.. I have been reading on them and have heard a lot of good things about them for the price. I'm not 100% sold on them yet.. but they seem to be a viable option.



also instead of the enginekits.com stroker kits.. what are peoples thoughts on the skip white scat kits?

http://www.skipwhiteperformance.com/...roduct=T&Sub=B

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Scat is good budget stuff

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Well....I don't know who you're listening to. But a $545 crank is a CHEEP cast job and isn't gonna cut it for making 500 hp. Hey, you asked for input; you can ignore any or all of it.


True, but 500 hp doesn't play well with budget cast cranks

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

There is 500 horsepower at the rear wheels and there is 500 horsepower at the flywheel. The title sounds like you want 500 horsepower at the flywheel but the first line in this quote sounds like you want 500 at the wheels. Which is it?

If you want 500 at the wheels skip the 383 and get a 350 with a procharger or turbo OR buy an aftermarket block 400+ cubic inches.

500 horsepower at the flywheel is achievable with a modest budget. You could use one of the skip White kits and I believe you would be fine. Skat's nodular cranks have a decent reputation but 500 is what Scat and most magazines and engine guys say the limit is. We aren't talking nascar where the engine is continuously operating at that power, this will be a car that sees that power level for a fraction of a second maybe a few times a year. Don't over rev it, probably keep it under 6500, no big clutch dumps etc., happy engine.

I think you would be hard pressed to make 500 with Vortecs or an off brand aluminum head. AFR is the best choice. Trick Flow and a few others would work.

The cam you listed should work with good heads and at least 10:1 compression. The cam in my 383 is slightly larger with a 110 LSA and still just sounds like it has a healthy engine, not easily discernible as an aftermarket cam. Idles at 800-900 rpm. Excellent street manners without any loss of power brakes like I was afraid of. If I have to change cams I'll go down further to a 108 LSA. I strongly recommend a 100% custom ground cam from one of the big names in cams. That way you will never play the "Maybe I should try a different/bigger cam" game that we all play after we build the engine.

I'm not sold on those carb replacement efi setups. I haven't seen any good reviews on them, if they were the way to go that's what everybody would switch to. Grab a professional products efi manifold, and an accel throttle body or a fab'd intake elbow for an LS1 throttle body.

Add all of that up and you can see why so many people go the turbo 5.3 route.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Eh i think hp ratings are overrated. So many variables. 500 hp at 5500 rpm vs 7500 is 2 different things

545 is closer price to a forged crank. Cast is 200-350

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

That was my point. He's not gonna get 500 hp anywhere close to 5500 rpm. It will be more like 6500. And I've seen too many; I'll put money on finding any aftermarket cast crank cracked after repeatedly buzzing it up that rpm. I'll win more than I will lose The only cast crank I'd do that with is a factory crank.


But you are correct in that it's not hp, but rather rpm that fails them. He'd stand a better chance with limiting it to 5500 rpm and adding a 100 shot to make his power goal.


If his crank is indeed forged, he can disregard all I said.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

I am the guy who reads as much info on stuff before he buys them, I research for hours on specific parts before ever considering purchasing something. I have read MANY reviews on enginekits.com and probably 90% of them are positive reviews, but.. those are mostly milder 300-400hp builds, which is why i asked for opinions on stuff before choosing to buy.. I'm just trying to get some fact on this stuff vs people just writing things off because its not a popular brand.

I'm not ignoring anyone, I asked for input because I appreciate it. I don't want to waste money on junk parts, but I also don't want to pay name brand prices just because some people have blinders on and are brand loyal.

I was originally looking for a complete forged setup, but the 900ish price point for a cast crank with other forged components is appealing, especially when most opinion on cast crank is that it would be ok up to 500 or so hp anyways.. but it has crossed my mind wether or not that 500hp was basically pushing crank to its limits or if that was more of a "safe" zone.

I was thinking more about 500fwhp.

Yea the vortecs were just an idea because the engine will already have them bolted to it (assuming they aren't cracked). As for the off brand heads, from the research that I was doing on them.. it seems that they are VERY close, almost identical to the dart pro 1 aluminum heads, the main difference being that the darts are cnc'd finished bowls where as the off brand ones are "as cast" and the valve jobs are a 3 angle vs a 5 angle.. with that in mind.. they seem like a heck of a deal for about $500 bare..

I agree that the vortecs just wont work for what I want.. even fully modified they are only good for about .525 lift, and need a bit of work to get them to flow well enough to achieve higher hp numbers.

as for the carb replacement efi setup, they have been growing in popularity lately, thats why you are seeing companies like holley and msd making those units now, the fitech system is pretty awesome for $995, like i said above.. I am obsessed about research before purchasing, this is the current plan.. its either a system like this or I will stick to a carb setup.

I actually was originally going to do a 5.3 build, but ended up going this route because the machine ship was going to do all my machine work for free, so it made sense to build up something that was a bit cheaper to build.. the 5.3 junkyard motors are nice to just drop in.





on a side note.. I'm going to start looking back into a fully forged setup.. $900ish is appealing, but if the forged crank is that big of a deal.. I may have to swallow the extra cost and pay the extra $400-$500 for peace of mind

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Sounds like apart from a forged crank you had your mind made up already. Good luck.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Just to be clear, I wasn't bashing enginekits.com I have no idea what they sell. I just know that you don't buy a new quality forged rotating assembly for anywhere near $900..
I'm glad you're rethinking that. You'll likely save yourself another engine build.
I could see using a cheap cast crank in a truck motor. Not for what you want to do.

cardo0

Check out Ohio Crankshaft, $545 for a 4340 forged crank. They have rotating assemblies in both cast and forged to.

If u driving w/T56 then u gonna bang years and forged would be better.

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

I appreciate the input, thanks! yea the $900 price point was for a cast crank, which I was assuming would be ok for up to 500hp, but it sounds like most peoples opinion on it is that 500hp would be that max limit that a cast crank can handle.. and this is a build I would like to last.

I'll take a look! thanks! looks like they have a fully forged setup for around $1400, which doesn't seem like too bad of a price for a whole forged stroker kit.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Carl at cnc above can set you up with a good balanced rotator for around that maybe abit more, depending what parts. Typically 500$ for some forged pistons, 300-400 for decent rods that will work for your goals, and 550-600 crank.

Do a 6 inch rod, its easier to balance typically