-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Hey all, Before I start, I want to thank everyone in advance for their input on past experience and knowledge. Okay, now we can begin.

SBC 350 4 bolt main, every journal has been machined and dialed in.
Bore .030 over
Zero deck (I believe, I did machining years ago, know its been decked and will be checking today/tomorrow)
Stock 400 crank I ground, radius and polished and all that good stuff.
5.7 Pink rods w/ arp's, mag, shot peen, etc.
Pistons I believe are speed pro hypers, (Kit from Northern auto, will confirm cc'c when I tare into motor)
ATI super damper
Scat flex plate
All arp hardware.

Heads Dart pro 1, 11421111p, 200cc, 72cc
Howards springs 98216, setting installed at 1.65+/- to obtain proper pressures. looking for 150/300 or so.

Comp Cam Pro roller rockers 1.5, (may go 1.6)
Comp Cam roller lifters, retro
Comp Cam push rods

Powell cam


RPM Air gap

750 dp holly mech sec, vac adv.

Transmission 700R4 non-lock, with slight build. Going to be upgrading, plans, shell, input, and more. Sonnax products.

Converter Currently its a stock, non lock. Thats all I know about it. Came with tran when I had local shop build it. I know valve body and proper adjustments have been made for non-lock. Tran guy has been building for 40 years. Nothing too high performance tho.

Rear end, stocker, new auburn carrier, new bearings/seals, Richmond gears 373. Been sandblasted and painted. (Prob this winter going strange or someone. It needs to be addressed.)

Body has been stripped and painted, no filler was used for dents, only to get panels smooth, silkens paint, epoxy primer.

Tpis struts
Eibach pro kit
Polly everything except motor mounts
BMR weld in SFC
BMR LCA
Org wheels


My questions,
1. Torque converter? Ive read a lot of reviews and precision is what I hear. What stall?

2. Head gaskets. I'm more interested in help with figuring out my static and dynamic ratio. The thickness will all depend on what my deck height is. What size hole in gasket?

3. What static compression cal do you use? I used 3 different ones and they all come up different. I know its just an estimate until I know more. I used, .010 deck, pistons I found from Northern are either +4 or +14, either H859CP30 or H860CP30, (will find out for sure soon) went with .031 gasket, but the bore size hole is in question, any recommendations? 3.75 stroke. .030 pistons. 72cc ports.

4. Who are you guys going through for interior parts, carpet, headliner and poss seat covers? I have all new GM t top gaskets and rubbers.

5. Thoughts on cam?

6. I'm setting up these valve springs, and there spring rate is 265. 1.7 @110. When I do the math, they must figure the spring is 2.125 tall. When I measure them, the shortest is 2.187 and the tallest is 2.231. The difference is .044. Thats almost 12# of difference. What measurement should I use to get my pressures? I know I should use a spring psi checker but I dont have one. Is it better to set them up stiffer?? How much does a spring relax after its been run?

7. Thoughts for 700r4 internals?

Any advice, input, positive or negative, on anything I listed, I want to hear it please.

Unfortunately my older computer died and I lost all my pics. I will upload some as soon as I take more. I plan to pull engine tonight or tomorrow and start to disassemble and measure stuff so I can swap cam and springs and more goodies. Body is going back to shop to get a couple small dents fixed (acquired in storage ) and to have bumpers, fenders and hood installed. I am bringing engine to dyno to see what it produces. I plan to have this done in a few months. I will keep everyone updated.

Again, Thank You for your advice, tips and opinions. Greatly appreciated.


Dan

MSgt Luttrell

1. Torque converter? Ive read a lot of reviews and precision is what I hear. What stall?

I'm running a 430 HP 383 and a 700r4 from TCI, I went with a Hughes 2500 stall and have had no problems what so ever out of it.

2. Head gaskets. I'm more interested in help with figuring out my static and dynamic ratio. The thickness will all depend on what my deck height is. What size hole in gasket?

I don't think Felpro has much to choose from as far as bore size, just the standard pre-flattened steel ring head gasket at the .040 thickness and a bore of 4.166. Some other manufacturers may indeed have more of a selection for bore size and thickness, you'll have to do some research on that.

3. What static compression cal do you use? I used 3 different ones and they all come up different. I know its just an estimate until I know more. I used, .010 deck, pistons I found from Northern are either +4 or +14, either H859CP30 or H860CP30, (will find out for sure soon) went with .031 gasket, but the bore size hole is in question, any recommendations? 3.75 stroke. .030 pistons. 72cc ports.

Again, you'll have to do some research on the bore size of the gasket you go with, but here is an excellent article from Super Chevy on figuring compression ratio. http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/467...ression-guide/

4. Who are you guys going through for interior parts, carpet, headliner and poss seat covers? I have all new GM t top gaskets and rubbers.

Stock interiors is a good source of third gen parts.
http://www.stockinteriors.com/items...._Camaro_Carpet

5. Thoughts on cam?

You can better make a decision on the camshaft after you are certain of what the compression ratio will be, then the torque range of the camshaft will determine what stall you will need.

6. I'm setting up these valve springs, and there spring rate is 265. 1.7 @110. When I do the math, they must figure the spring is 2.125 tall. When I measure them, the shortest is 2.187 and the tallest is 2.231. The difference is .044. Thats almost 12# of difference. What measurement should I use to get my pressures? I know I should use a spring psi checker but I dont have one. Is it better to set them up stiffer?? How much does a spring relax after its been run?

The spring manufacturer should be able to rate those springs for you, this isn't as exact as checking with a psi checker, but it'll be in the ball park.

Any advice, input, positive or negative, on anything I listed, I want to hear it please.

It sounds like you've spent some money on this project already, just take your time and double check everything as you go. Most importantly, make sure that you match all the performance parts for the same torque range, the engine's compression, camshaft, heads, intake, stall and gears must work well together or all you will do is turn fuel into noise. Be sure to update us on the progress and remember, pics or it never happened.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

MSgt Luttrell, Thanks for your reply. Ive been doing so much reading that I find things sometimes contradict one another. Thats why I am giving a shout out to you all to see what you think. Thanks for the links, I will read those too. I forgot to mention, My cam guy made that cam specifically for my set up so I know it should be fine. But still, I am up to hear any input of the matter. (Pics or it never happened) LOL! love it. Trust me, its for real. My pocket book feels it every pay day. I didnt make it to the shop today, so pics tomorrow evening.

Stay tuned.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Well, today went well. Wasnt able to get to my shop till 3, but I got it out. Easy. Hardest part was them darn headers.


Got it to shop. Very dirty. Makes me want to cry. The place I keep it in storage is off a dirt road. It will never be this dirty again.




Unloading from trailer. You can see the dent it acquired being in storage. Of course no one knows anything... Hope the body guy can fix it easily. Rather not spend more in time and labor than another used door would cost. I would really like to keep the original door. Car has only 84k on it. Very clean. No rust anywhere.

Starting to pull engine. I think I'm going to find a A.C delete for more room. If anyone has one to sell, PM me please.




Definatly going to put a different pitcock on the radiator. A style where a guy can slip a hose over so radiator fluid doesnt run down the core support and drip out of every hole. Jacked under tire to tip car to prevent fluid running. Really dont like spilling anything on the ground.




Got most the parts off to ease removal. Headers are a pain. 1/8 of a turn from top side, 1/8 a turn from the bottom side. Defiantly going to look for a bolt with a smaller shoulder on them or turn the shoulder down in my lathe. I ordered some arp's and I ope they fit. Also in the market for some new headers. Mine are fine, just a very tight fit and I had to customize the collector to get it to aim back. Want a style that fits better and is readily available to replace if they go bad.




I dont know how you guys do it, but up here in MN, this is how we pull our engines. Makes it breeze. Tran and all. You can stand the engine straight up if needed.




She's out and separated from tran. Mounting on engine stand, pulling block drains to empty radiator fluid. In the market for converter bolts. I cant find them anywhere. At least for a 700r4.. Preferably ARP.




Engine bay shot. Going to pressure wash bay and everything I can to have it as clean as possible for body guys. Although they will prob get it dusty. Going to replace brake fluid and try to clean up some of the wires. I wish when I did the engine swap years ago, that I didnt cut them. Eventually the original motor is going back and the car will get put back how it rolled off the floor. This winter I may look for a nice roller. or next...




Junk yard dog AJ in the back making sure I'm not loafing. Engine on stand and is now in my shop. Tomorrow I am tearing it apart to get ready for the new parts and to cc everything. I am also going to pull the caps and mains to check them out and plasti gauge them to make sure they are still in spec. They should be as engine only has 4000k on it max sense I did the machining in school.




Last pic of the day before I covered her up. The truck used is my dads, 1945 Ward LaFrance, M1A1. Its a wrecker for pulling tanks and other big things out of the mud in WWII.


Hope this is good enough proof... lol

MSgt Luttrell

Nice project! I love the engine hoist, I could use that rig around here for all sorts of things.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Some goodies. More on the way.





Starting to really really think about a new sort block... SHP, Callies crank and rods and Some good pistons.. Only thing is, my set up is external balance, The new stuff will be internal. ATI can change damper to internal for me for 100 bucks. IDK.. Where do you draw the line... Im thinking this new set up will have 425-450HP at the flexplate, not spinning any faster than 6000rpm. (I wont spin it that fast) I guess time will tell if the stock crank and rods will handle. I think the dyno guy will have a good feel and express his concerns.

Dan

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

LOL. Truck came from Belgium and was restored by my Dad and his friend. Thats what he does, collects and restores WWII trucks. (More collects) He rips on me all the time for my taste in vehicles.

MSgt Luttrell

Back in the day all I did was build hot rod cars, then I got away from that and built 4x4 trucks and Jeeps for about twenty years; I have a nice Jeep YJ and a lifted Tacoma that I'll probably never get rid of. I retired from the military a few years ago and the wife out of the blue told me that I needed to build another street car for us, so I kept my eyes out for a nice project car and came across a 1986 IROC in decent shape.

I decided to build it like I would have if I'd had it back in the 1980s, so that meant no LS swap, but an old school 383 SBC. I got to pricing parts and machine work for a 383 and found that these days I can buy a good engine with a warranty for less than I can build it, not to mention, the nearist good machine shop is 60 miles from here. So I did some research and decided to go with a 430 Horse, 452 Ft Lbs of torque, Roller Engine 383 from Blueprint Engines. I swapped it in last month with a 2500 stall and TCI 700R4 transmission, its running great with tons of power over the stock 305. My next job is to swap out the 3:23 open diff gears for a set of Posi 3:73s. There simply is no traction to be had below 40 MPH right now.

As far as your build, if the bottom end checks all good, I'd spend the extra money on something else that maybe you'd been wanting to add to the mix, like a nice fuel injection kit or something along those lines.

Here's a pic of my IROC as she sits now..........

skinny z

This is the best DCR/SCR calculator that I've found. The article is also very enlightening (to those not already familiar with the principles). The calculator is downloadable at the end of the article.
As for a head gasket, I've had excellent results with the Victor Reinz/ Clevite 5746. It's .026" x 4.100". Suitable for iron to iron or aluminum to iron applications.
The rest you can consider after you've determined exactly what you already have. For what its worth, an OEM crank and rods are capable of 6000 rpm in the 400 hp range without trouble provided the rods are refitted with better bolts (as in ARP). Certainly for drag racing and the street but perhaps not so much for extended high RPM as in road racing.


http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the reply's. Having trouble finding the piston specs. H600P. Some stuff comes up but There is no real good info about them other than power forge. Also, I am .010 in the hole. So once I figure out what these pistons are, cc wise, I can start to figure this out. I'm debating on CCing the heads and pistons just to make sure. However that will still only be a rough estimate. The "dead zone" from the top compression ring to top of piston is a example of one place that rarely gets measured. I dont know how particular I need to be tho.

MSgt Luttrell,, Sweet ride. Im a NA guy. Maybe down the road I will go injection. I dont know much about it really.

Body guy came by today, he wants engine and tran back in car before he does anything. I totally get it. So that is a small set back in time. I did find a local tran guy who was highly recommended. I will call and see about an estimate. Honestly I think I can handle the rebuild. I just want to update some hard parts.

Engine is all torn down, crank, flexplate and damper are going to get balanced. I have a small amount of pitting in #8 at mid stroke, Going to see if I can ball hone it and clean it up. First I'm going to measure and see where I'm at, Tight, loose... to see if I have any wiggle room and go from their. If It wont clean up I may just run it anyways. Compression tests were in the 180's on all 8 corners.

Spark plugs, I dont know wth happened, they are way way too short. Like not even close to being in the chamber. I dont know how it ran, and ran strong at that. I remember asking part guy to cross the older plugs, but I needed shorties to clear my headers. Oh the thing we do when we are young. Other than that, everything looks great. Crank spins freely and smooth when rods are off, all bearing surfaces look great. (getting new) I will load some more pics when I get home from neighbors party. Hope everyone has a great 4th.


MSgt, Thanks for your service.

skinny z

If you intend to cc the pistons (and haven't torn the engine down yet) the crevice volume, as well as the volume of the deck height will be included, if you cc with piston installed at TDC. For what it's worth, the crevice volume isn't likely to add up to more than 1 CC so it's not a detail that you need to sweat. I wouldn't think so at any rate. I would definitely cc the heads and also determine one or another the volume of the valve reliefs.
Being .010" below deck would probably exclude the .026" gasket I mentioned. That would put your piston within .036" of the cylinder head and that's cutting it pretty close. I've done it but that's with a fresh block and a tight fitting hypereutectic piston. Not much piston rock there.
That your compression tests were all in the 180s is a good sign. That would put you close to 10:1 depending on your altitude, the barometric pressure and temperature of the day and how you actually did the test.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Some pics. Pistons are like new. Everything looks great. Except for #8 as mentioned above. Another thing..... No arps in rods.. I swear I did it... Anyways, so what to do. Obviously need them, Pistons are press pin. Just have them done and run what I got or get some scat pro comp. Well then I need to balance all over, and yada yada. Thoughts and advice much app.

Thanks.

skinny z

Those pistons look like the Speed Pros that I had. Four valve reliefs, 7 cc according to the catalogue.
When I got back into hot rodding (after a 20 year hiatus) the first engine I built was a never run before late 70's four bolt (010) that had been in storage for over 20 years. With fresh hypereutectic pistons and upgraded rod bolts, the stock crank and rods endured tens of thousands of miles and countless red-line shifts at 6000-6500 rpm. I finally killed the rod bearings by hauling a trailer cross country (with the Camaro) and engine temps were 230 plus, 10 hours a day for 4 days. It wasn't until the following spring that I could hear a faint knock. That's a testimony to the durability of the OEM parts with careful assembly and regular maintenance. I would be comfortable doing it again for the same application. My latest build is a forged deal (still a hypereutectic piston though) only because I'm interested in some open road events or a standing mile. That's a little tougher on parts.
That's something you'll have to decide moving forward.
If I were to start from scratch, and leaving a crate engine out of the equation, I'd go for a complete reciprocating assembly. Something tough likes Lunati's Sledgehammer deal.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

I am having a hard time finding info on them.. On the flip side, I just pulled the trigger on a Scat 9000 crank, Molnar rods, and a few other goodies. Hope to get parts this week so on Tuesday I can bring to my machinist. He talked me out of the stock crank. For 239.00 no tax and free shipping from Comp Products, just next door in WS... What the heck. He has seen too many 400 stock cranks break at the #1 journal. That would most likely destroy my short block and leave me with a intake and heads, carb... burb. Now all I need (want) is a shp. maybe this or next winter. Ive always wanted to build a LM7. I have a sweet old 71 ford f100 camper delux that was my grandpas I want to do next. But thats for a different site.

I will keep you all updated. If anyone is interested.......

Dan

skinny z

I just had a look at those cam specs. 293 advertised and 232 @ .050"? That seems awfully lazy in terms of ramp speed. How old is that grind? I din't see if it was a roller or not.
By comparison my Comp XR288HR is 288 adv. and 236 @ .050". Those numbers on that Powell cam (if I'm reading them correctly) are going to make for diminished vacuum and possibly driveability issues. Just thinking out loud here but you may want to check around. Have you worked out your compression ratio? My thinking is that a cam that size would like to see 11:1 at a minimum. At least that's where I would target my SCR.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Yes hyd roller. Have no clue on age of grind. I know he just ground it for me. I told him my complete engine set up, what I was after, and this is what he made. I KNOW he knows his stuff. I would not question him one second and I know he would not just send me a cam to sell me a cam. You can go to his fb page, Powell Cams, and see some vids that he posted. A mustang that runs 5.20 @ 142. Banging wheelies the whole way down.

I really appreichate the question tho as I am week in that area. I understand how it works, but mainly from reading and I learn best from turning wrenches. I do know I told him I have a ZZ409 cam from tpis and sent him the specs and he said it was small. I actually was shocked. I thought it was a nice cam...

Pics to come, Crank and boxes of goodies showed up today! Rods should be here by Sat.

skinny z

First off I meant no disrespect to you or your cam guy. I'm also sure he's on top on what ever he's doing and with your intentions expressed to him, he did what he knows will work.
That said, I ran some numbers through the SCR/DCR calculator.
Based on these values:
Bore/stroke; 4.03" x 3.75"
Rod; 5.7"
Head cc; 72
Piston valve relief; 5 cc (based off my Speed Pro H345NCP pistons)
Head gasket; .040" x 4.10"
Piston deck; 0"
Static compression ratio; 10.15:1
Dynamic compression ratio; 7.64:1

That places your DCR near the bottom of the range for a street engine on pump gas.
Now, many folks dismiss the value of the DCR with respect to how the engine will perform. To some degree they're right. There are many variables that will ultimately determine the engine's output and efficiency. Ignition timing being right at the top along with the fuel trim. But consider that given the opportunity, if the compression ratio is optimized and allows for a full and proper timing curve within the confines of the fuel octane used (so as to avoid detonation) then the engine will perform that much better. Let it be said though that ignition timing is far more important than compression.
Our experience has been that a DCR at or slightly more than 8:1 gives great results, driveability and fuel efficiency as well. Would I go to the trouble to try and get that last half a point? I'm in exactly that situation. I'm SCR limited due to my cylinder heads and deck height and the cam I've selected (and installed) this time around is just a little on the large side. I expect decreased low rpm output and probably depressed fuel economy because of this. I'm also at 2500' above sea level and often race at a DA of 5000'. That just makes it worse. Without the right converter, I'll have assembled the typical "too big a cam" hot rod that only builds power at the top end and will probably have a reduced 60' time when compared to the previous small cam engine. Your 383's longer stroke will offset that reduced torque (that I'll see with my 350) and depending on your converter selection, may not represent an real issues.
Anyway, just throwing a little tech at you. I'd be interested to hear what your cam guy has to say. This isn't a challenge or anything like that. Just some math and past experiences I'm relating. I really enjoy having the chance to hear what the pros have to say. I've discussed my situation with the guy who ported my cylinder heads and the general consensus is yes, I'll be giving up something down low. It's the thought that it'll more than make up for it at the top end. If I was strictly a drag racer, I'd throw a ton of rear gear at it, get the right converter and go racing. In reality, I'm more street (or at least was) and have enjoyed driving across the country more than a couple of times in the Camaro.
Looking forward to your progress.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

More parts showed up today! Getting closer. Bringing crank, rods, pistons, damper and flex plate to my machinist on Tuesday. Hope to have it dynoed in a couple weeks.

I will keep you all updated. Any guesses on numbers?

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Skinny, Sorry man, I didnt mean for it to sound like offence was taken, cause none was. Darn computers out of context. I truly appreciate the questions and comments. You were dead right. I asked him and he said to get as high as I could but being I'm running it on pump gas, no higher than........ yep, 11:1 lol. you are a knowledgeable fella. Again, I really appreciate the help and info. Thank you!!

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

I will defiantly keep you in the loop. Thanks for running those numbers. FYI, My deck is .010. So I can get a .031 gasket? Thinner? Also, I could use your help on stall. I'm thinking 2800? Thats just based off what I've read. Tuesday I'm going to meet my machinist and plan to pick his brain on a bunch of topics.

I have this crazy thought of maybe boring it .010 more, due to #8 minor pitting, and getting new pistons... idk, where does a guy draw the line in the sand..

skinny z

Chassis dyno or engine dyno? I'll cheat regardless and run your numbers through DynoSim. That'll have to wait until I get back from work though (middle of July).
What do you have for headers? Chassis exhaust? Muffler(s)?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No to those springs

You need alot more open pressure than that for that combo
Double spring around 150 seat 375-400 open at valve lift

You will have float issues with those springs

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

engine dyno for sure. Hope to get the best tune possible!!! Please do run it through the Sim. We can compare results!! I am thinking about getting dyno dons headers. I will make my own y pipe, 3" back up and over rear to a muffler. I have a flow master cherry bomb, but thats too raspy for me. I want something deeper and meaner.. Any suggestions there would be great. Thanks!

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Orr89RocZ, thanks for the reply,

My cam guy said, 150/300. I am shimming them to achieve 1.65 installed height. At that I will get 140/ 290 and he said it will be fine. If I cant get them to at least that weight, I have another set I'm going to get. I've heard great things about these springs... What spring would you suggest? Appreciate the help!!

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

This is the other spring. I called Comp Products, and this is a spring and kit that they offer for their dart pro 1 heads, that they can put together for me, What I like about these, is I wont have a stack of shims under my spring, and these have locators under them. I think I can use my same valves.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/m...earchprods.asp

skinny z

I see your 1.65" installed height target and the idea of retainer to guide interference and coil bind come to mind. It might be a better idea to go for a spring with the pressures you're after and install at a more conventional 1.8".

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I found those springs to be 110 lbs at 1.70" height. 1.65" is only gonna get 14 lbs more pressure at 280 rate. Open is 250 at 1.200" and with your cam it will end up near 275-280 lbs open. That is a hyd flat tappet spring. I would not use them for that cam. Its gonna want to turn 6200+ rpm and that takes around 350 lbs open. 140-150 seat.

I like pac springs. Howards may have something but i am not familiar with them. Even a comp cam beehive would be worlds better

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I know... I'm going to see what these look like when I start to check them and fit them. I may make my own perches or cups on my lathe to avoid problems. However, if there is retainer to seal or coil bind, I'm going to find a dif set @1.8. Coil bind is .950, so I shouldnt have a issue there.... I will find out tomorrow!

Stay tuned.

skinny z

I imagine for the dyno session you'll be using the "house" headers and collector extensions that the shop uses for their testing. The output you'll see with those will be quite different from what you'll get with what you end up installing in the chassis. It would be really interesting to have the headers you intend to install (in the car) used for your tuning session. Unfortunately, with the short style headers (like Dyno Dons), you won't have room to add the y-pipe with the engine of the dyno stand (or not likely too).

Yes. We've been running Comps 26918 Conical "beehive" springs in a number of engines. The XR288HR I'll be running this season was previously installed in another 350 which regularly saw 6500 and often 7000 rpm with zero issues due to valve train instability. We're using the tool steel retainers for even more weight reduction to go along with the already small\lightweight retainers that are part of the beehive package. There are also harmonic benefits to the conical spring which helps push the upper rpm limit even higher. This being accomplished with less spring pressure as well.

What's your choice of lifter?

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

It says Performance hyd roller too. Its what Larry recommended when I told him what I was after.

I am going to look into it deeper tomorrow when I get them apart and can measure everything instead of going off a tech sheet from dart. I am getting the feeling you and Skinny are right. Honestly, my cam guy said they wont work neither until I told him I can get close to what he wants... I dont want to screw around. I want this right regardless of cost.

I value your input and appreciate the help.

Thanks

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

What are your guys thoughts on beehive springs?

I prefer a dual set up in case one breaks...

It looks like I can go up to 1.8 install with my valves.


Dan

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

I'm running comp cams rollers, retros. 853-16

skinny z

The Comp 26918 have proven to be a reliable spring to 6500 rpm (and beyond). Many applications to .575" lift, cams as large as yours, zero problems.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Do you recommend locators with these? They are .060 thick, I measured my height w/o any shims and came up with 1.835. So right off the bat, that makes my installed height 1.772. Thats an extra 10# installed height giving me 135 closed, open is 338 @ 1.227. leaves me with .127 clearance for coil bind which is great. That 1.835 was just one pocket so if all others are close, I think I'm going to get them.

Tomorrow I am disassembling both heads completely to get every measurement. There are a few other beehive springs that are great open pressures, but closed are 115-130. Cam guy wants 150.. However I did find a spring that is exactly the #s he suggested, 98447, I came up with 145@ 1.750 and 300@1.205. .180 coil bind clearance, and Cups/retainers are readily available.

Thoughts? Thanks fellas.

skinny z

Yes. Definitely use the locators. Use these Crane .050" + offset locks.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...95-1/overview/

Then shim to zero in your 1.80" installed height.
This is just one option. As I said, my experience lies with the Comp 26918. Beyond that, I'm researching as much as you are. But I know those springs do the job for me and others.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

This is what I was doing last night till 2am. Part numbers are up top, some are figured for different installed heights for higher pressures, and spring rate is under that. to right is cost. Some springs are the same/similar just different treatments. Apologize for the mess. But if your cam or anyone's valve lift is close to .545, this is a good starting point. <br/>

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Beehives can use less seat and open pressure because of their design. Conical so they have different vibration characteristics. The 135/330's beehives will be fine. I would do that.
I would not use the current howard singles. I been down that road it will not work right.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the help Orr89RocZ. I definatly DO NOT want to have to tear into my heads because I didn't take advice and do it right. I'm calling Comp products tomorrow and finding out how to return those 98216's. It says on receipt there may be a restocking fee but oh well. Teach me to order stuff w/o knowing everything first.

So now the research begins with/on the 26918's. I found that lots of people dont like comp. PAC makes a similar spring, pac-1218, that will get me, 130# @ 1.8 and 303# @ 1.255 or 146# @ 1.75 and 320# @ 1.203.

The comp 26918 set up, with retainers, locators, keepers, runs about 300. I will shop around for the best price, however I dont want the old versions.

The PAC-1218 set up, with retainers, locators, keepers, runs about 360. Again I will shop around for the best price.

I prefer getting them through comp products because they are right next door in WS and every time I call them, they are very professional and knowledgeable. The 98216's were totally my fault. Now mind you, the prices above should be 130 less because I hopefully will get a full refund on the 98216's.

Thoughts and opinions on the 2 springs above is greatly appreciated. Orr, I know you like pac... I read may reviews of the comps breaking, however that was the old series.

Also, This isnt a race car... But now with the new crank, rods, I can safely spin much higher that 6000. Scat says, the 9000 series is good for 7200 rpm and 600 hp. I will have an excellent balance job, and great tune, so I shouldnt have any worries... I hope.. Heck anything can happen eh?

Thanks guys!

skinny z

26918 springs.
Crane .050" offset locks.
Locators for the spring inside diameter. (I have a P/N somewhere).
Shims to get 1.80".

skinny z

I've never experienced the issues with the Comp springs that others have. I'm not even sure of when those issues first cropped up. What I can say is that my first set went tens of thousands of miles and then I sold them. That purchaser put them through a spring checker and I witnessed as they were all still in spec. And those springs hard a hard life albeit with lifts only in .575" range. My current set is still fresh and I they set up on my yet to be installed heads.
As for PAC, I've heard nothing but good things about them although other than an LS application, I have no direct experience.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Here are some more pics. I'm documenting everything. Hope its okay to load this many pics.






Can I get some help identifying these valves? Intake, came assembled with dart heads.




Measurement Dart had set up with heads and shims. 1.675




Measurement with out any shims. 1.835




Bottom O.D of guide.




Top O.D of guide.




These just a std seal? Came with heads.




Retainer to seal clearance.




Pass head chambers.




Drivers side chambers.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Skinny, Thanks for the replies,

The part numbers I found are as follows,

Comp Cam springs : 26918-16 $180.00
Comp Cam retainers: 774-16 $53.97
Comp Cam locators: 4705-16 $40.00
Crane machined valve locks: 99095-1 $33.00

Total: $306.97

I'm pretty sure all these numbers jive. If any errors, please let me know.

I'm headed to shop now to disassemble heads, bag and mark everything, and get my installed heights with no shims, and write it on head next to every pocket. Lots of prep work to do.

Again, Thanks for all the help guys!

Dan

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Pac used to make the springs for comp. when comp switched they started breaking. This was a while ago. Comp switched again and i dont think there has been a problem since.
Your cam with those heads will go to 6500 shifts so you want control. Pac or comp will work

skinny z

I'm counting on that with my build too. I'm sure the valve train will be up to it. It's a question of whether the heads will be.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Orr, I'm ordering them tonight here in a few min. Yes, I def dont want valve float.




Is this common for a new head to be all over the place? Every spring had 2- .063 shims and 1- .030 shim under them. I will NEVER buy assembled heads again.

The seats look great, Im still going to lap them, and the guides passed the wiggle test. Nice and tight. Well not tight but you know what I mean.

Would you recommend new valve seals? these look great and only have 1500-2000 miles max.

Thanks again fellas.

Dan

skinny z

I had some variance with my freshly machined heads. Not sure I had the 25+ thou difference that you have but what counts is getting the installed height close.
New seals are cheap insurance. Besides, you'll have to have the seals removed to install the spring locators and shims. The seals fit over them. That is if you're going for the Beehive springs.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Yep. ordering tomorrow, want to make sure comp products will take the 98216's back. 130 bucks! Yeah, they are all apart, seals, everything. I think I'm just going to order std locks, and set the locator in (.060 thick) and put the spring in. My machinist doesnt like any + locks. He says they give up too much support under the keeper groove. And I believe him. Besides, with the numbers above, It will be within an average of .020 tho or 7#s

skinny z

With the spring beng installed closer to 1.76", you may want to revisit the coil bind situation. I think though that you'll have room to spare.
Next stop, dialing in your cam and then valvetrain geometry.

MSgt Luttrell

The engine looks to be in pretty good shape, should be able to get her back on the road pretty easily.

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Doing all the math right now for open heights. I'm in the 1.220 give er take open height. They claim 1.100 coil bind, so I should be good. I'm pretty sure my push rods should work, But, yes, def going to check that out. There is a great video on you tube explaining how. I'm running 1.5 rockers for now, Actually they are 1.52, shoot, lets see... .0072672 larger on intake and
.007304 larger on exhaust. I'm still good. I may go to 1.6 down the road. I think this winter, or next, shp is in view. Done lots of reading and they claim 600 hp from a stock block all day but I dont want to push it even with a good balance and tune. (just did math, 1,6 rockers leaves me with .090 clearance for coil bind) Cutting it close.

I have a degree wheel, so I'm going to check that, Can only go + or - what 4 deg on a std timing gear? That is where I need to study up on more too.

I ordered springs, ret, loc's today. Glad the guys at comp products just dont place the oredr with the part numbers I gave them. The retainer number was for 8mm valves and 10* locks. He crossed the number and found what I need for 11/32 valves. My locks should work. I got new seals too.

Will keep everyone updated.

Dan