dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

I just want to say that these run great if you get an LS pattern SBC cam made... I did one and it came out awesome!

I just finished up freshening up the 350 TPI in my '88 GTA and am getting ready to do another stroker LT1 based TPI engine. I'm having problems doing the 427 TPI because I can't find the crank I need anymore...nobody makes 4" 1pc rear main sbc cranks anymore, not even Eagle. I was hoping to run one of those in a '99+ Silverado.

I really would like to see a BBC TPI run with a similar setup. I've got a Gen VI engine that I am seriously considering stroking to a 496 and running it with a custom fabbed intake manifold.

...because I'm sick

kad5118

wow thats insane so the efi connect system should really wake up my 408 tpi sbc then,

doctorcad

Is it possible to tune an LS3 pcm to run a tbi configuration?

I think a tbi motor with coil per cylinder would be cool.

What's the prognosis S10Wildside?

S10Wildside

Prognosis is negative.

I see two challenges off the top of my head.

1. The LS3 controller requires electronic throttle. More than that, it requires two throttle position sensors. I suppose you could mock up two sensors to satisfy the ECM, but I have no idea what issues (if any) you'll have with the ECM not controlling the throttle motor.

2. The LS3 controller requires sequential fire injection (8 injectors). The calibration does not allow for two injectors. I'm not aware of a batch fire mode.

doctorcad

How's about the LS1 pcm? It can control a coil per cylinder setup, no?

S10Wildside

The TBI TPS and IAC should be fine with LS1 PCM. But now you are stuck at the 8 injector requirement.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

why would you waste the time doing a coil conversion on a tbi motor if it was even possible?

Camaro305SB

I was thinking the same thing.....All I can see that is gained is the ability to truthfully say "I did it"..... I know of PLENTY of TPI motors that run like raped apes using the stock style fuel system/computer. I mean if you really want the ability to control parameters like you would an LS1.... then just use an LS1.

S10Wildside

His question wasn't "Tell me why I don't want to use TBI?"

This is a "to each his own" sort of thing. In my opinion TBI was dead after 1995 and the benefits of sequential injecton, and the electronics that come with it, make TBI much less desirable for a conversion, but I answered his questions directly.

This is a poor argument. Running like a "raped ape" implies wide open throttle and disregards 99% of typical operating conditions. The LS1 PCM runs circles around the capabilities of the TPI ECMs. Swapping in an LS1 engine has so many added costs because of motor mounting, exhaust, front accessories, transmission, etc.

I know PLENTY of TPI and LT1 owners who have counted the costs and were better off converting to the LS1 PCM than swapping in an LS1 engine. Using the LS1 PCM is of interest to a very small segment of TPI owners...and there is nothing wrong with that.

Camaro305SB

Arguement? Heh, all I did was state a fact. Most of those cars run just fine under part throttle conditions as well. If someone wants to do all of their own R&D of a new fuel/spark control system just to get another 2-3 mpg out of their sports car, then fine - I guess its just me that thinks its not worth it. What I don't get is how you think its more work to swap in an LS1 but its not too much work to completely change the computer control system of an engine that was engineered with a totally different system. An LS1 with an LS1 PCM will run ten times better than a TPI with an LS1 PCM. During idle, part throttle, and WOT conditions. Fact.

Having said that I totally understand your point that everyone wants something different and it is interesting from a research standpoint to see a CNP conversion. There IS nothing wrong with that.

S10Wildside

Apples to Oranges.

It's basically just a new engine harnesses. Hardly compares to the amout of work involved in putting an LS1 engine into the car.

The same "LS1" PCM was used with the Gen 1 SBC (we're talking TPI long block here) in the 2001-2002 Express Van.
The same "LS1" PCM was used with 4.3L engines in the 2001-2002 S10s, Blazers, and Vans.
The same "LS1" PCM was sued with 8.1L BBC engines in the 2001-2002 trucks.

Not a fact. Been there and done that...so have many others. You can't state something as fact and have no data or experience.

Here's one solid example of the dyno proven improvements:
http://www.eficonnection.com/media/S...MayJun2010.pdf

Here's a testimony to the improvements on another SBC engine:
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7131

Specifically from above...
And these are comparing mid-late 90s technology to the LS1 PCM.

Look - the "LS1" PCM is simply a control module that takes inputs from the same sensors as are used with TPI engines and controls spark and fuel delivery for 8 cylinders.

It is true that an LS type engine is a better design than the early Gen 1 SBC engines. That's not what we're talking about here. But it's an ubsurd argument that the "LS1" PCM will control an LS1 engine any better than its ability to control any other 8 cylinder engine. That's like saying a FAST ECU (which can control any 8 cyl GM engine) has some additional advantage when used with an LS type engine.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

camaro305 it sounds like you're trying to sound educated on something you have no actual experience with. I was one of the first to have this 411 pcm swap done with Mikes harness. I went from a mild 350 with a mail order chip that ran "ok" to the LS1 style pcm, and even with a STOCK TUNE for a VAN my car ran a TON better than it ever did with the stock ecm and a tune. Once I got my car dyno tuned it ran like a brand new vehicle, literally.

This is an amazing swap, and is DEFINITELY much easier (and CHEAPER by THOUSANDS) than swapping in an LS1 drivetrain. I cant believe you're even trying to make that argument lol

doctorcad

Okay, here's another one for you S10Wildside:

Can your 58x DBW system run an MPI 4.3L V6?

I blv you can get a plastic timing cover for that engine with a crank sensor provision.

S10Wildside

Yes

cmmcginnis

I've been doing some reading on this and I'm really interested. My only questions (may be stupid but I can't find any info) does the harness available for the standalone streetrod have have all the wiring for injectors and everything. The reason I ask is because I'm debating on a single plane square bore (carb style but with injector bungs) efi inake like the edelbrock super victor efi and using an elbow with the ls1/ls6 style throttle body. Am I on the right track? I'm sure there is someone out there that has done something like this but I haven't found anything.

S10Wildside

A stand alone type harness includes everything from the PCM connectors out to the engine sensors, injectors, ignition, battery, grounds, and transmission.

Every harness is built to the customer's requirements. I see nothing wrong with what you are planning to do.

cmmcginnis

Awesome I kinda figured but just thought I would ask. Thanks for clearing that up

snake70

If a intake is Fabed up and sensors used could this run a old pontiac engine? Or a Buick? Call me crazy but I'm trying to fab a lt1 style intake for a 74 Pontiac 6.6 engine and this seems to be perfect for running the old beast
That could open a new market of sales!!!!

S10Wildside

Of course it could. With the proper 24x crank signal on ANY 8 cylinder engine, you can use the LS1 PCM.

lakin454

iTrader: (2)

I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I have a question about getting my tach to read the correct signal from the pcm. I have done this swap in my 88 Firebird, and i got a dakota digital box (sgi-8) to convert the signal so my stock tach will read correctly. I will work until the motor gets up in the rpm's and then it stops moving up. I have just about tried every combination on the dakota box to make it read correctly but with no luck. Anyone use one of these for this swap? and/or gotten it to work right.

S10Wildside

Strange...the 1989 GTA we did for GM High Tech Magazine used the SGI-8 box with no issues. A buddy's 1990 GTA also used the SGI-8 box with no issues. Not sure what to suggest.

Kingbambino22

How will the cruise control work with a 92 TPI 5.7 Camaro with a 4l60e trans swap? Will you still need to run the stock still cruise control setup?

S10Wildside

The cruise control module is looking for a 2,000 pulse per mile signal from the original TPI ECM. After converting to the LS1 PCM, this 2,000 pulse per mile signal is simply provided by the LS1 PCM. It's all done seamlessly through the new engine harness.

Kingbambino22

That's a good thing. Now for power adders will it pretty much be the same a adding a supercharger to a LS1 engine when it comes to tuning? My end result is a superchargered and nitrous power 92 Camaro. I don't want the dufficulties of chip burning cause my job(Army) won't allow the time or wallet sake of long dyno sessions. I want things a easy and cost effective as possible. I'll willing to pay to play just want to make sure it's worth the play price.

S10Wildside

LS1 system (or EFI 24x SBC) + EFILive + Moates RoadRunner Emulation LS1 PCM + Wideband O2 Sensor = Incredibly fast tuning

That formula above is not cheap, but if you are willing to pay to play, then that's your winner.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

i saw the post about the MPI v6 so i'll shoot mine..

would it be any more of an effort to do it to a CPI 4.3L vortec v6? specifically out of a 95? (has cruise control fwiw)

would the swap be worth it?

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Maybe I am misunderstanding this whole conversion. But isn't it a LOT more than "just a new engine harness"?

New timing cover + near timing gear + new distributor + + +......?

S10Wildside

As far as I'm aware, there are no cable throttle coil per cylinder calibration files from GM for V6 engines. You cannot begin with a V8 calibration and turn off two cylinders; it does not work that way. There are calibration files that support V6 electronic throttle and coil per cylinder, but that gets you into the newer ECMs and a lot of unknowns.

S10Wildside

Yes, you have not read this thread very well.

doctorcad

I'm gonna try the eficonnection 58x crank reluctor and billet small block timing cover w/ sensor. The 4.3 V6 roller cam block (without balance shaft) shares a timing cover with the original small block.

Figuring on a Delphi MEFI4B and no cam sensor running the '08 LU3 coilpack in wasted spark. The injectors will run bank to bank. Plug the distributor hole with a mallory plug/oil pump drive. Should be pretty solid I think.

S10Wildside

You may beat me to it. I have a 92 Typhoon engine planned to try out the 58x reluctor and 4x distributor. The engine needs a rebuild first.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

i will definetly be following. instead of using a Gen 3 small block computer, could one use a V6 computer from those years to accomplish the same thing?

would one see a rise in fuel economy from this?

S10Wildside

It's as I said above...

tpi88camaro

iTrader: (7)

Wow! This is awesome. I have a question tho. I want to keep all the factory emission equipment from my TPI engine when I swap it into my gbody. Can this be done?

S10Wildside

No, you cannot use the TPI emissions equipment...with the one exception of the charcoal canister purge solenoid.

mxhockeydrummer

Does anyone know if EFI's connection cam sensor set-up used in the 24x system will work with an accel gen 7 DFI with a MSD flying magnetic crank trigger??????? What will actually distribute the spark signal to the coils??

My plans are to replace my opti with the cam sensor and bolt on MSD crank trigger to my ATI balancer. I have a set of LS1 coils, and a MSD 6AL2 box.

Any feedback from expierence/knowledge will help, thanks!

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Ah.....So that makes the conversion a non-smog legal conversion then.

My question is though.....What part of the conversion prevent using the factory smog equipment? The positioning of the coil packs on the valve covers, is the only thing I can come with at first look, in the way of the smog equipment on the passenger side.

S10Wildside

Electronical imcompatibilities. The LS1 PCM simply won't control the TPI smog equipment. No EGR temp switch control. No smog pump solenoid(s) control.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Ah. So nothing that wouldn't pass the visual portion at the very least, so it could be "gotten away with" at Inspection time. Cool. I'm wanting to do this, just haven't pulled the trigger on doing it since I would also haft pay a mechanic to do it for me. I can do some/most things, just not something of this size/mechanical ability.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The problem I see with the visual is that the original ECM blinks the SES light when the ignition is turned on. If the new one did that or you had a electronic circuit to do that then you might be able to pass the visual.

With a larger cam and more overlap you can get by without a functioning EGR. The EGR is only a visual test. So as long as everything is there and hooked up for the visual and it "blows" clean for the sniffer you should be able to pass. That again is if the SES blinks as pointed out above. There is always the possibility of getting a smog tech that is not all that familiar with our cars and you can pass that way.

haisud

what mpg gain you will get 350tpi 700r4 2.73 posi
will it work with turbo engine or megasquirt or something else is better? and if i want build turbo 350tpi then this conversion is pointless?

haisud

Do you get now better MPG and can i controll turbo with it or i need megasquirt and this ls1 coil swap dont help me with turbo build?

daniel92345z28

well i seen plenty of turbo ls1 cars with the 411 pcm.so i think you should be able to run a turbo on you tpi engine with the coil per cylinder set up

RedStealth91Z

That is awesome! I am glad to see that someone out there was thinking about this idea. I figured that it was only a matter of time. I will be looking into this now

Papa Ken

iTrader: (1)

Aside from the tuneability and more horse power, are people seeing an increase with gas mileage?

malcom2073

Is it possible to get JUST the cap from you? If so, how much are they? I figure that'll be a cleaner option than shaving down and sealing the stock Vortec cap.

S10Wildside

Available at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...spx?ItemId=622

malcom2073

Oops, totally missed that. Thanks!

S10Wildside

We are now moving on from our initial 24x crank reluctor design that required two rows of teeth and matching crank sensor...



...to a new crank reluctor that uses one single row of teeth and the more common 1996-newer Vortec crank sensor.



The original reluctor is now on clearance in a kit that is being sold below cost at http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonn...px?ItemId=1356. The plastic Vortec timing cover included in the kit is our new modified timing cover that uses an aluminum flange that prevents oil leaks on 1995 and older blocks.

1blackmeaniroc

iTrader: (2)

What is the benefit with using the newer single row reluctor and crank sensor? I have a stock 1998 trans am pcm and harness would this be good to run with this kit to put in my 1986 camaro with a first fuel injection intake and a procharger? i have heard that the 99-02 ls1 pcm is better than the 98 is there any truth in that thanks