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I'm narrowing it down on what the rattle is in the rear end of my Camaro. Keep in mind, I've had my differential rebuilt, wheel bearings/seals replaced, and replaced springs and shocks. All clamps are secure. No rocks in heat shield. I think my rattle has something to do with this rear wheel. Here is a video of what is going on. I'm thinking maybe the mechanic didn't replace the bearing?
I was told by a "mechanic" that is was alright. This was the same guy who couldn't figure out where the rattle was coming from. I know the proper places to jack it up. I'll do it the right way from now on. Thanks for the heads up OrangeBird!
Ok , so I replayed the tire wiggling part of your video over about 5 times to be sure , and I'm about 99% positive that if the wheel bearings were replaced that somebody messed up big time . Now , as to my ideas and realize that's all they are is ideas , here are my thoughts ;
You say the bearings were replaced , but don't our axles ride "live" in the bearings (as in the axle is one part of the bearings surface) ? I'm not 100% certain but I think they do . And if they do , replacing the bearing without replacing the axle will still result in that kind of play if it's the axle's surface being worn that's causing the slop . You have certainly found what is causing the problem because no tire front or rear should ever have that kind of play in it and I admire your patience in what you've gone through trying to fix this problem . I don't want to bag on whoever did the bearings but they had a responsibility to check that yes indeed there is slop with the old one and that the slop is now gone with the new one , otherwise they haven't really "fixed" anything .
My guess is gonna be that a new axle is what will fix it . If I'm right , I would put yet another new bearing in there when the new axle goes in because we've already seen what happens when only part of the actual wearing surfaces gets replaced . All wearing elements of any bearing have to be renewed together so that they all wear in together as a set . Your new bearing is likely already plenty worn in to the (worn out) axle so a new axle has to have a new bearing , and then they'll happily wear in together .
Nothing wrong with jacking the car up like that as long as you're careful with not bending the cover.
Are the lugnuts tight? With the way you are moving the tire that's what it looks like to me.
Nothing wrong with jacking the car up like that as long as you're careful with not bending the cover.
Are the lugnuts tight? With the way you are moving the tire that's what it looks like to me.
Before I watched the video, my first thought was he lifted the rear and then ran the car in gear with just the jack under the differential.
Now, THAT'S considered bad form.
Bearings replaced but no mention of the axles; the axles make up the inner half of the axle bearing race.
Last edited by paulo57509; 12-04-2016 at 09:55 PM.
I got lots of good information from you all. I'll be replacing my axle next. Let's say I use Autozone.com to purchase my parts. They are saying I need either a 29 1/16" or a 30 5/16". This is the rear right. My differential is a 2.73 in a 7.5" 10 bolt. Is this something I need to replace in pairs?
Parts at http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/a...eVehicle=false
i agree that it's a bad axle or incorrectly sized bearing, or it didnt get changed. i'd check the bearing out first.
it also looks like the bushing on your drivers side of the panhard bar might be worn out? lower the car on the ground and have somebody push the rear body from side to side and see if theres any play at that bushing/mounting area.
I got lots of good information from you all. I'll be replacing my axle next. Let's say I use Autozone.com to purchase my parts. They are saying I need either a 29 1/16" or a 30 5/16". This is the rear right. My differential is a 2.73 in a 7.5" 10 bolt. Is this something I need to replace in pairs?
Parts at http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/a...eVehicle=false
If the left (driver's side) has no play like the right side does , then doing just the right side is fine .
PS , I challenge anyone here to show me a shop manual put out by any car manufacturer that says it's perfectly fine to jack the car up from the differential housing like that , Till then I think I'll continue using the manufacturer's provided for jacking points
If the left (driver's side) has no play like the right side does , then doing just the right side is fine .
PS , I challenge anyone here to show me a shop manual put out by any car manufacturer that says it's perfectly fine to jack the car up from the differential housing like that , Till then I think I'll continue using the manufacturer's provided for jacking points
Challenge accepted.
See attachment. It's a page from the 1998 Lexus LS400 manual downloaded from Toyota TIS (yes, I do own a '98 LS400 and yes, I do lift the rear by the differential).
See attachment. It's a page from the 1998 Lexus LS400 manual downloaded from Toyota TIS (yes, I do own a '98 LS400 and yes, I do lift the rear by the differential).
Works for your Toyota , that's great .... But I still think I'll jack my third gen by using the manufacturer provided for jacking points .
And now that we know it's fine for Toyota , I think now I'll narrow down the question to our cars specifically , can anyone can show me the same statement as above , instead published by GM specifically relating to our Third Gens instead of Toyota ?
PS , did I say yet that I still plan on using GM's jacking points ? Oh , ok , well I do , and I surely hope you don't think your Toyota example is gonna have me putting any jacks under the differential of any third gen I own
I got lots of good information from you all. I'll be replacing my axle next. Let's say I use Autozone.com to purchase my parts. They are saying I need either a 29 1/16" or a 30 5/16". This is the rear right. My differential is a 2.73 in a 7.5" 10 bolt. Is this something I need to replace in pairs?
Parts at http://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/a...eVehicle=false
My 87, 26-spline, drum brake, factory axles were 30 5/16".
in fact, if you need/want them,...you can have 'em. I don't need them any more. nothing wrong with them. i narrowed my rear. you'd have to pay shipping of course.
but i'd pull that axle out first and see whats going on. maybe he put the wrong bearing it, or something?
Definitely, pull the axle first to see what you're working with. It's not real difficult. If its wore, you could always try an axle saver bearing rather than ponying up for a new axle. Then save up and get a good pair of shafts.
Those "axle savers" don't have a very impressive track record... I suppose if axles were expensive they might be a better choice, but with axles being something around $250 a set for VASTLY better ones than stock, any "savings" from "axle savers" tend to be minimal, especially in the cases where they cause continued problems (leaks mostly) and you end up having to buy axles ANYWAY after trying the other.
I'd recommend a set of fully prefabricated axles, NOT "custom" ones such as Moser. Not that Moser isn't any good or anything like that; rather, prefab ones are heat-treated AFTER the splines are formed, rather than leaving the metal soft enough that they can be CUT and the axles shipped in less than 2 weeks. Save the "custom" approach for situations where pre-made ones aren't available.
I would also recommend strongly AGAINST buying 26-spline crap... if you're find you need them, get 28-spline, and a new carrier to match. (no you can't just put the larger side gears in your existing carrier; the hole in the carrier that the shaft goes through is too small for the larger axle)
That said, I've seen some REALLY TRASHED C-clip axles in ALOT of different kinds of vehicles, and NEVER heard them "rattle". The usual sound is a growl or roar. While potentially maybe "possible", I wouldn't call it "probable". I'd be skeptical of that diagnosis.
Just a heads up if you get these 28 spline axles they come with koyo bearings BUT they don't quite fit under the iron caliper disks. I had to have the hub turned down a bit. Otherwise they worked great.
Works for your Toyota , that's great .... But I still think I'll jack my third gen by using the manufacturer provided for jacking points .
And now that we know it's fine for Toyota , I think now I'll narrow down the question to our cars specifically , can anyone can show me the same statement as above , instead published by GM specifically relating to our Third Gens instead of Toyota ?
PS , did I say yet that I still plan on using GM's jacking points ? Oh , ok , well I do , and I surely hope you don't think your Toyota example is gonna have me putting any jacks under the differential of any third gen I own
I'm glad you're taking so much effort to inform everyone of what you're doing.
Meanwhile I'm pretty sure that's how our cars get jacked up 99% of the time from the rear with a floor jack.
I'm more interested in the resolution of OPs problem myself.
I'm glad you're taking so much effort to inform everyone of what you're doing.
Meanwhile I'm pretty sure that's how our cars get jacked up 99% of the time from the rear with a floor jack.
I'm more interested in the resolution of OPs problem myself.
Pretty sure the resolution was somewhere in these two answers I've quoted below , but I'm sure the OP will let us know what he finds when he takes it apart ......
Originally Posted by OrangeBird
Ok , so I replayed the tire wiggling part of your video over about 5 times to be sure , and I'm about 99% positive that if the wheel bearings were replaced that somebody messed up big time . Now , as to my ideas and realize that's all they are is ideas , here are my thoughts ;
You say the bearings were replaced , but don't our axles ride "live" in the bearings (as in the axle is one part of the bearings surface) ? I'm not 100% certain but I think they do . And if they do , replacing the bearing without replacing the axle will still result in that kind of play if it's the axle's surface being worn that's causing the slop . You have certainly found what is causing the problem because no tire front or rear should ever have that kind of play in it and I admire your patience in what you've gone through trying to fix this problem . I don't want to bag on whoever did the bearings but they had a responsibility to check that yes indeed there is slop with the old one and that the slop is now gone with the new one , otherwise they haven't really "fixed" anything .
My guess is gonna be that a new axle is what will fix it . If I'm right , I would put yet another new bearing in there when the new axle goes in because we've already seen what happens when only part of the actual wearing surfaces gets replaced . All wearing elements of any bearing have to be renewed together so that they all wear in together as a set . Your new bearing is likely already plenty worn in to the (worn out) axle so a new axle has to have a new bearing , and then they'll happily wear in together .
Originally Posted by redneckjoe
i agree that it's a bad axle or incorrectly sized bearing, or it didnt get changed. i'd check the bearing out first.
it also looks like the bushing on your drivers side of the panhard bar might be worn out? lower the car on the ground and have somebody push the rear body from side to side and see if theres any play at that bushing/mounting area.
Last edited by OrangeBird; 12-06-2016 at 04:32 PM.
Looks to me like it's pivoting on the axle bearing. The outside spider gear is probably worn out in the carrier. Easy to miss when a shop is quickly rebuilding it if they never seen it before. Especially since their trying to make a profit off something they don't do a lot.
Looks like the center of the wheel is broke, or the lug nuts are not tight. Try switching the wheels and see if it still does it.
I like the center of the wheel broke theory ! Like you said a simple switch of the wheels will prove that out for him and that would be great if it turned out to be such an easy fix .
My repair guy showed a video of my wheel wobbling, said both my axles were bent. Wouldn't have believed they were bent so I ran the car on jack stands and sure enough. So I bit the bullet and am replacing them both.
If you need them, I just ordered two axles from National Drivetrain in Chicago $182.86 for the pair with free shipping.
MOT:MG27126
TEN FACTORY AXLE SHAFT - HIGH MANGANESE 1541H - 28 SPLINE - 7.5 inch - 30-5/16 inch - 5 X 4.75 inch LUG PATTERN - DRIVER OR PASSENGER SIDE
Here's a picture of my axle. Looks like a part of it is worn pretty bad. Does the ride on the worn area, or is there something wrong with the axle housing?
I decided to switch my axles and put the differential pin back in. I still have the same clanking noise from the right side. The sound and vibration stay the same on the right side no matter which axle is in place. Can this be a bad rear end? Warped/bent?
Biledriver's suggestion is a good one too. Check the axle-side spider gears in the carrier for excessive wear. Could be the gear itself or the thrust washer that goes between the back of the gear and the carrier case. Haven't watched the videos, so can't really comment on the possibility of a broken wheel or loose lug nuts.
Yes. Check those spider gears while the cover is off. I've seen this in a few Astro vans and g&f body's when guys love doing one wheel burn outs, that really spins the spider gears.
Well... wheel bearing have been replaced. I still have the same wobble in the passenger side rear. Soooo... after having replaced all parts on the rear end, and had the differential rebuilt, I feel the rear end itself may be bad.
Any recommendations on what I should get to replace it? There are some junkyard on craigslist, but not sure if I want to trust an old part. I have some christmas money to play with. Possible to get a rear end housing for under $1000?
More likely, it's bent axles, like d00d said. More common than you might think. Even though the bearing and seal surfaces look in pretty good shape. Might have been curbed at some point in its life.
I did switch axles and I also switched the tires and I'm still getting the same effect. I am going to switch out my drums after I get off work today. A friend told me he had the same issue, but was quickly diagnosed as a warped drum. I'll keep y'all updated as to how it goes. Thanks to everyone who has put their 2cents. All information has been valuable and useful. Thanks again!
I decided to switch my axles and put the differential pin back in. I still have the same clanking noise from the right side. The sound and vibration stay the same on the right side no matter which axle is in place. Can this be a bad rear end? Warped/bent?
i can tell you without a doubt that your panhard bar bushings are shot. i watched your video again on you tube on full screen. it's very clearly moving side to side when you moved the tire at about 50 seconds into the video. that is most likely causing some noise. i'd replace that at least with a cheap one. https://www.foundersperformance.com/...maro-firebird/
you definetly have more movement going on though. perhaps both your axles are shot? bad/cracked/broken/incorrect wheels/lugnuts? look it over real careful, it's solveable.
Very good eye redneckjoe.
I just watched it again really close as well, that lower visible panhard bar bolt is either loose or the rubber bushing is shot. Had the same thing (bolt was loose) happen to one of my 89s when I first got it going after I bought it.
Redneckjoe, the link for the panhard bar is for a 4th gen. If you say it'll fit my 82, I'll buy them! I hope this solves the problem. I've been waaaaay patient during the 3 months I have owned this car, haha. It's been a fun learning experience working on my own car!
Redneckjoe, the link for the panhard bar is for a 4th gen. If you say it'll fit my 82, I'll buy them! I hope this solves the problem. I've been waaaaay patient during the 3 months I have owned this car, haha. It's been a fun learning experience working on my own car!
in a pinch, i cut up and rolled some aluminum from a soda or beer can, lol. made my own bushing. you could temporarily try this to see if it takes away some of your problem.
The bolt did need tightening. Good eye on that one! I'm sure it'll be more secure now.
I also switched drums, and that didn't seem to fix the problem. I did realize that the axle/wheel assembly can be pulled in and out. What do you all think about me making a shim to the correct tolerance to counter-act the "pull" on the axle? I'd probably attach the shim to the differential pin. I would use a hardend steel washer and cut it to the correct size, and tack it on the pin.
Even though I switched axles and still have the extra play in the passenger side... should we still keep an axle replacement on the possibility list? I am able to buy parts not a problem.
I don't recommend shimming the c clip. Axle end play is very common on c clip type rear ends of all makes. If you have an Auburn differential then excess axle end play is a sign that the differential is nearly worn out. If you have a standard differential and you have excess axle end play then someone has been doing one wheel burnouts and damaged the thrust washers in the differential.
Turns out that the shop that "rebuilt" my differential didn't replace the spider gears and side gears. I'm guessing I should remove the side gears and thrust washers and see how worn they are. I swear I should have rebuilt the thing myself. I had a lot of problems with my experience at that shop. They pissed me off enough to the point of me not taking my car to a mechanic again, haha.
Did you put the cover back on yet? If not stick your fingers in there and wiggle the damn spider gears. I never replace spider gears for a rebuild, if their chewed up you get a new posi.
the shop ... didn't replace the spider gears and side gears.
They never do.
Usually if any of that is bad, the carrier housing also is worn or damaged where the thrust washers ride against it, anyway; making it a pointless waste of money to do that.
If any of that stuff is tore up, best to just get a new carrier. Make it a good quality posi if you have to go that route.
12-04-2016, 05:14 PM
BAD BAD BAD to be jacking it up from the differential housing like that !
Ok , so I replayed the tire wiggling part of your video over about 5 times to be sure , and I'm about 99% positive that if the wheel bearings were replaced that somebody messed up big time . Now , as to my ideas and realize that's all they are is ideas , here are my thoughts ; 
My guess is gonna be that a new axle is what will fix it . If I'm right , I would put yet another new bearing in there when the new axle goes in because we've already seen what happens when only part of the actual wearing surfaces gets replaced . All wearing elements of any bearing have to be renewed together so that they all wear in together as a set . Your new bearing is likely already plenty worn in to the (worn out) axle so a new axle has to have a new bearing , and then they'll happily wear in together . 
PS , I challenge anyone here to show me a shop manual put out by any car manufacturer that says it's perfectly fine to jack the car up from the differential housing like that , Till then I think I'll continue using the manufacturer's provided for jacking points 
