ktthecarguy

Hi there,
I just bought a little project, 1986 Camaro 2.8 manual trans, pretty much no options. the previous owner apparently had several problems with the car, and half-azzed tried to "fix" them. so I am undoing his work, and fixing things the right way.


first it had a problem with the fuel pump not coming on at startup. (it turned out to be the fuse on the passenger side fender, which I replaced - fuel pump runs fine now) So he wired in a manual switch to turn on the pump before starting. He burned out the battery a few times when he would forget to turn off the switch! He snipped off a brown wire under the hood, next to the relays by the brake booster, and wired in the switch to it. I took out the wire for the switch, but the brown wire is not connected to anything. The car starts and runs fine, but I am getting code 54. Not sure what that brown wire should be hooked up to.


Next problem is code 34. I have a 1988 Helm manual, that says the MAF may be reading incorrectly. Is there any way to test it, without a scanner? The unit looks okay, no broken wire or clogged screen or anything.


any help would be appreciated.

ktthecarguy

I forgot to mention, the idle hunts up and down for the first few minutes when it is cold, but runs pretty good when it warms up.

ktthecarguy

Does anybody have any info on the brown wire in the fuel pump circuit? I would like to clear up the 54 error code.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It goes to the ECM for the malf code 54 test. See picture below, it is for an '87 but shouldn't be much difference. Also, the underhood fuse provides power to the ECM (shown in pic), so you may find something there that the previous owner changed.

RBob.

ktthecarguy

Hi RBob, thanks for the info. It looks like the previous owner snipped all the wires going to the fuel pump relay. So it looks like I need a fuel pump relay
and a wire connecter.


I read a couple posts that indicate that a problem with the fuel pump circuit could cause a false code 34. Any truth to that? My MAF looks in good shape; no broken wire or clogged screen.

5215

iTrader: (2)

Hey bro, you might want to check ROCKAUTO.COM for your relay. They had mine dirt cheap when I needed one. Like $7 shipped. They seem to have a lot of parts for our 2.8 V6's at very decent prices. Good Luck!!

ktthecarguy

Hi there,
UPDATE: I ordered a bunch of replacement parts from Rock Auto, should be arriving later this week.

The PO cut off the fuel pump relay connecter and wired in a manual switch, wired in the radiator fan to the same switch. Hmmm... you can either have the fan on, OR the fuel pump running, but not both. Kinda hard to run the car that way. Well, I fixed the fuel pump and un-wired the switch. Looks like the fan has a bad relay, so I will be replacing that, and testing the circuit to make sure it all works. Also replacing the cracked radiator that the PO smeared some goop on to try to seal the crack (didn't work!)

The PO also cut off the coolant sender connecter and replace the sender with a manual gauge, instead of replacing the $13 sender. Man, some of the dumb "fixes" on this car actually cost more than just to fix it right the first time!

5215

iTrader: (2)

Nice progress brother!!! I'm glad to see you are doing things the right way. It's crazy to dig into some peoples **** work sometimes! Please keep us informed on your progress.

Quick favor: If you have the means and time to help a brother out- Could you possibly take a pic of the 4 wires that plug into the distributor? I know that 2 come off of the ignition coil but I'm not exactly sure which ones or their colors....also, if you could take a pic of the other 2 wires showing the colors that they go to on the wiring harness. Mine goes right into the harness directly behind the dizzy at the fire wall. I'm trying yo figure out what goes where from the gray and black connectors on the top of the ign. coil. I WOULD OWE YOU FOREVER if you could help me out!

Thanks,
Scott

** Oh yeah, I'm glad Rock Auto worked out for you!!!!! Just gotta watch their shipping prices sometimes.

ktthecarguy

5215, ok I will see if I can take a pic in there. I just got a new mem card for my camera (which my wife lost) so I will see if it works.

Yeah Rock Auto shipping can be a bear, but I use the discount code so it knocks off some of the price, makes them competitive.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The large wire on the coils gray connector is IGN+ switched power to the coil. The black connector goes to the distributor and is easy to replace. It is missing the pink wire that provides power to the ICM. So if you engine runs someone hacked the wiring. As it is there is evidence of this regarding the large red wire that goes to the coils gray connector.

As for the distributor connectors, as mentioned the two wire connector goes to the coil. With the four wire connector going to the ECM.

RBob.

5215

iTrader: (2)

THANK YOU RBob & ktthecarguy!!

As embarrassed as I am to admit this, I am the one who hacked up my wiring. My Newly rebuilt motor with around only 150 miles on it, that was running FLAWLESLLY, for some reason I decided to add a Mallory digital ignition box to the mix. I still don't know why.....That was a terrible idea because I was unable to get it to start again. Life happened and off my baby went to storage. Now, after 8 years, the beautiful car is back out of storage and I am fixing the **** I did so many years before back to stock. This is a car that has NEVER seen snow, has absolutely ZERO rust ANYWHERE, and a perfectly straight body with new-ish paint. Oh, to be young and dumb again..........sad I know!!

5215

iTrader: (2)

Thanks bro!! If not, no huge deal. I think RBob has probably got me back on track if you can't get any pics. Wish me luck!!

ktthecarguy

Hi Rbob, the diagram shows 2 orange wires, and my wires have 2 orange ones as well. One larger diameter and one small. Do you know which one is which?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Odds are the smaller one goes to pin G on the ALDL connector. While the larger one is from the BAT/FUSE lead. Easy enough to check with a DVM.

RBob.

ktthecarguy

Here are the coil and dizzy. Sorry they aren't very clear, this is as close as I can get.

ktthecarguy

Here are some pics of Project Cheap Skate. Soon to be running and driving.

ktthecarguy

... and some pics of the interior.. Seats and carpet need a good shampoo.

5215

iTrader: (2)

Thanks brother man!!! These actually are helpful! I appreciate you taking the time to snap me some pics. Good luck with your project! She looks good!!

5215

iTrader: (2)

Oh yeah ktthecarguy , if you need any of the under dash plastics I have doubles and triples of most. That's the only thing that was missing when I bought mine used back in '92. Just let me know and I will get them to you!!!!

5215

iTrader: (2)

DAMN!!!! Very, very clean interior. You are a lucky man to have found such a clean OLD car.

ktthecarguy

Hi there,
new update: I replaced the fuel pump relay and conecter (the old one was snipped off) but I am still getting code 54. I wired it up as follows:
A - tan/white wire
B - black/white wire
C - green/white wire
D - orange small diameter wire
E - orange large diameter wire

does this sound correct?

ktthecarguy

Here is a pic of the relay, with diagram on it.

ktthecarguy

Quick update:
Good news! I found the main wires to the rad fan, so it now powers up. It had me stumped for a while, because the PO move the fan pigtail towards the drivers side, so I was looking all over on the driver's side for the black ground and black/red power leads. I finally spotted them on the passenger's side (snipped off, of course) and wired them up. SUCCESS! I still have a problem with the fan temp switch. The connector on the switch is melted, and the green wire is snipped (naturally!)

I ordered a low-temp switch from Rodney Dickman Fieros. This should go nicely with my 180* thermostat, and help keep the engine from overheating.

Now, on to fixing the wiring on the fuel pump relay...

AmpleUnicorn88

I think a lot of us can relate to the PO screwing us here haha. My PO cut the floor out in the back to replace the fuel pump, but he did it with the dullest shears or some crappy saw because it's super jagged. So i have to fix that so the smell of gas isn't flooding into my cabin. I'm right there with you on wiring too. I assume people have internet access, so why they don't attempt to even try to do things right is beyond me.

ktthecarguy

Hi there,
I tried following the fuel pump diagnostic procedure in the Helms manual, and it is pointing to a bad relay. This is a brand new relay, so it seems less likely that the relay would be a problem. Following Rbob's advice, I soldered the wires to the new connector as follows:
A - tan/white wire
B - black/white wire
C - green/white wire
D - orange small diameter wire
E - orange large diameter wire

Did I maybe get the wires wrong?

5215

iTrader: (2)

Hey KT, any progress on your car? Hope all is well for you, bro!

ktthecarguy

Hi there,
Not much progress lately, just more bad news. The front passenger side brake tube rusted and sprung a leak, so that needs replacing.

The O2 sensor got a code 13, so I am trying to replace it. The old one is rusted on there solid, so I think I will try to cut the body of it off so I can use a lug gun on it. It's coming out, one way or another.

Then the rear pinion oil seal is leaking and needs to be replaced. The fun just keeps coming!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

On the O2 sensor, heat it up good and hot with a torch. Then try removing it. Can also get it hot and melt candle wax on it. The melted wax wicks into the threads.

Be sure to use a spark plug chaser (18 mm) in the mount before installing the new sensor.

RBob.

ktthecarguy

Hi there,
UPDATE: I finally got the O2 sensor out and replaced. I cut off the tail, with the wire pigtail on it, and used my electric lug gun on it. Turns out the PO cross-threaded the old one when he screwed it in! No wonder it wouldn't come out. Well, the new sensor is in, no more code 13.


Four more problems to go, then she is a runner.


Code 54 fuel pump circuit (still can't figure it out)
Code 34 MAF sensor (need a new one)
pass front brake line rusted, sprung a leak
rear axle pinion oil seal leaks

ktthecarguy

UPDATE:
I got a used MAF sensor, installed it, and ... no change. Still code 34 and when cold, the engine still "hunts" at idle, going from near stall to high rev and back again. If gets better when it warms up.

So, still four major problems to fix.

copyfixr

iTrader: (3)

Ktt, I had some of the same fun with my son's 88 v6 when he bought it. He was 14 and didn't even have his license yet. The wiring wasn't quite as hacked up as yours. We had some vacuum leaks, intake leaks and bad fuel injectors. After we fixed all that it ran worse. The idle would do kind of the same as yours. Issue was a plugged cat and muffler. Good luck man!

ktthecarguy

Hi Copyfixr,
Thanks for the info. I know it can't be the cat, because... there is not cat! the PO cut it off and put a muffler on in its place. So the exhaust tip comes out right under the passenger seat. Nice and loud.

At this point, I am just going to save up some pennies and take it to my favorite repair shop and get it fixed. Getting too cold and wet to be climbing in and out under the car. I just want it running.

5215

iTrader: (2)

Just don't give up brother! You'll figure it out soon enough!

ktthecarguy

Update:
got the font brake system completely replaced, every piece of hardware. Now the only original parts are the master cylinder, the booster and the combo valve. Everything else replaced. It now stops really well.

I also had more gear oil added to the rear diff. The mechanic did not want to take the bolts off the rear cover, because it is so rusty and he didn't want to snap off any bolts. So I don't know what shape the gears are in, but they are lubricated.

so I still have two problems left: code 34 and code 54. But the car is running much better now! Drove it to work tonight, no problems.

ktthecarguy

Update:
I got the code 34 fixed. It turns out the supposedly good MAF sensor was not good after all. So I got a replacement from Rock Auto, and no more code 34 and no more hunting idle. Still have a code 54, hopefully fixed on Monday.


I also got the car painted in December, and just finished the new carpet and headliner last week. Cheap Skate is starting to look nice!

ktthecarguy

cleaned up the engine bay a bit, so I took some pics

ktthecarguy

Update:
I fixed the overheating problems, replaced the rusted and leaking heater steel tubes, and the run-down radiator fan motor. Now the whole system works, the fan comes on at the right temp, cools it off, the shuts off when cool.


The only problem seems to be the factory temp gauge seems to be inaccurate. Wish I had an IR temp gun to read the true temp, but I bet it is correct.

ktthecarguy

I took a few quick pics, after the car was cleaned up, ready for the car show, and a couple at the show. Cheap Skate shines up pretty good.

88Birdman

iTrader: (1)

Well Done my 88 2.8 firebird was the same the PO had let it sit for 11 years and i had to rewire blinkers hi and low healights and the sterio thanks to mice. Your car is looking great!!

ktthecarguy

Thanks 88Birdman, I like yours too. Nice shine!

ktthecarguy

UPDATE:
New bad news: all the steering components are worn out. That's why it wanders a bit at speed. I have to replace nearly everything - tie rod ends, drag link, idler arm, LCA ball joints.


I am looking at parts on Rock Auto, I know Moog are recommended, but are they really 3X better than Mevotech or Quicksteer or Ultra-Power? Anybody have experience with them?

ktthecarguy

UPDATE:
I got one control arm done, only took one month! Hopefully the second one goes faster! It took so long because I got the first bolt off okay, then rounded off the head of the second bolt. Tried cutting it off with a sawz-all, but kept just wearing out blades. Finally ended up using a cut-off wheel on an angle grinder. Then, tried 3 different spring compressors to get the spring back in. What fun!


I also solved the problem with code 54. Turned out the ECM was bad. Shop replaced it and tested it thoroughly, and no more code 54. Now, I have a O2 sensor code, due to bad exhaust.

ktthecarguy

UPDATE:
I finished the 2nd control arm, and replaced all the steering gear. Just got a front-end alignment done. Now it no longer wanders at highway speeds. The front handles a lot better, now I have to do the rear shocks.

5215

iTrader: (2)

Good job bro! You know, a thread with no pics is like crackers with no cheese...DRY! I'm just bustin' your nuts but you gotta let us SEE what is going on! Again, good work in saving another 2.8!!!

ktthecarguy

Hi there,
In response to 5215, I have a couple progress pics. Darn it! I keep forgetting to get BEFORE pics, usually only get AFTER pics. Sorry about that. Well, here are a couple DURING pics. The water pump was about to die, so I am in the middle of replacing it. This being winter in Michigan, I am dodging snowflakes, and trying to paint parts on the engine (without the paint freezing before curing.)
First is the block after I pulled the water pump. Next is the alternator bracket. I had to take the alternator off to get at the heater hose on the pump. Next up is the new water pump and the old pulley. I painted the so they will stay looking nice. Next 2 pics are the front and back of the old alternator. I painted it and detailed it so it will look better going back on.


Next up, if the weather warms up a bit, is the pump and alt going back in. 12 degrees right now, too cold to work!

5215

iTrader: (2)

Very nice brother! Thanks for getting us some pics. I hear you completely about the after pics. I'm lucky if I even get those. GREAT JOB as usual!!

ktthecarguy

UPDATE:
I finally got the water pump back in, now to fill up the coolant. Also got the alternator back in, and belts tightened. Very slow progress in the middle of Michigan winter.


Here are a couple progress pics

88Birdman

iTrader: (1)

Looks good! Keep up the good work! I have recently done the trans mount upgrade to ES as well as rear sway ends and tie rod ends in ES. always something with these old cars, but i tell you after the initail rage and fixing of the current issue...it feels great to do it yourself. Not to mention the money it saves!

ktthecarguy

Thanks 88Birdman, I saved a lot of money doing it myself. I was quoted $1000 to redo the steering linkage and front suspension parts. I did it for $140.


I'm not familiar with ES. is that a rubber substitute?

88Birdman

iTrader: (1)

Energy suspention...polyurethane replacements for the crap rubber...If i were you i would go ahead and replace all your mounts and bushings in these...well worth it!