Guest

Talked to a friend who worked at the Van Nuys plant and GM did have a licensing agreement with ASC to produce the F-body convertibles for GM. He also said you couldnt go to the dealer and buy a car and have it sent to ASC to be converted, it was a from the factory only deal. So... that would make it basically impossible for any of the pre-91 convertibles not to be authorized, since the factory was the only place the car could originate from, and GM was the only ones who could send the car to ASC to get the top chopped off. This confirms another story by another board member a month or two ago, saying the same thing about GM having an agreement with ASC.

My conclusion:
Pre 91 Firebird convertibles - Factory authorized by default.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

....He also said you couldnt go to the dealer and buy a car and have it sent to ASC to be converted, it was a from the factory only deal....

Documentation (and my eyes) say the opposite. There are instances of customer owned 1987 IROC-Z's that were converted, some of these were 350 cars. The Camaro White Books states this. These cars were sequentially numbered by ASC. This fact is true for 1987. I cannot with any certainty say this for other years. The "factory" convertibles were not numbered as such.

I have personally seen a 1988 350 IROC-Z convertible. The VIN indicates an original 350 coupe. It was converted by ASC and included ASC's door jamb decal. Given these facts, I cannot agree with the above statement.

....This confirms another story by another board member a month or two ago, saying the same thing about GM having an agreement with ASC.

I concur that GM did have a licensing agreement with ASC, giving them the rights to convert the "official" convertibles, but I'd have to say that ASC also performed customer owned conversions too, based on what I stated above.

Pre 91 Firebird convertibles - Factory authorized by default.

The term "factory authorized" can be construed in many ways. Yes, ASC performed the "factory authorized" conversions. These cars display a VIN sixth digit of "3". So are customer owned conversions considered "factory authorized"? Technically, the answer is no because the VIN does not indicate this. However, this does not mean these cars do not exist. I've seen one!! The owner drove to my house thinking he owned an original 350 convertible. I proved him wrong.

Guest

Well he did say customers could not get their cars converted. I'll take his word on that, I know who he is and what he was doing at the plant.

As for the 87's, maybe those were done before there was any agreement with GM yet. I cant say, I wasnt there and I dont have any specific details.

I already know about the mysterious '3' and coupes that are actually convertibles. I have one.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

This whole issue brings up some gray areas. Maybe comparing Camaro and Firebird convertibles is the same as comparing apples to oranges. Madmax's original statements focuses on Firebirds. Pre-1991 Firebird convertibles may be another different issue altogether and the facts as I know them may not apply to these cars, only early Camaro convertibles, i.e. 1986 - 1987.

I should also state that I've never seen nor heard of a customer owned 1989 or newer Camaro convertible conversion. Is it possible that ASC stopped performing these after 1988? If so, it would be true that no pre-1991 Firebird ragtops exist. It would be ideal if we could contact an ex-ASC employee....

Willie

Guest

I'd rather have a time machine

pgh-gta

Madmax, it is me you are referring too when you talk about the ASC conversion post. You are 100% correct in your statement. As to Willie, there shouldn't be a need to contact any ex-employees, contact current ones. I have infact spoken to Ann Macari, Rob Copeland, Craig Hildebrand, all members of the ASC corporate management staff about this very topic, as a matter of fact I also conferred with Rod Edie (ASC's Toyota Covertible Program Manager) by email. He gave me the exact production numbers from ASC on all f-bodies (camaro and firebird) for the years from 1987 to 1990. All of these people state the same thing. ASC is a business to business company. NO PUBLIC JOBS DONE. All conversions are set up through the factory. Infact ASC has only recently branched out to the public with a company called Inalpha, and this company only does sunroof conversions.

I don't know too much when it comes to prod. numbers, RPO codes, and such but I do feel very strongly in this catagory. I have spent hours on the phone with many people. I also see alot of quotes out of the Camaro white book. I assume this is a history of all f-body Camaro prod. numbers and stuff but according to another post on this board someone quotes the book as saying there were 3940 Camaro verts in '89. Well acording to ASC's records there were actually 6473 produced, while only 330 Firebirds were done.

I agree that too much time has gone by now to get exact numbers and things like that but to just say that pre '91 firebird verts are unauthorized conversions is totally ludicrous. Think about it, why would GM set up the Camaro but not allow the Firebird to be done as well. Makes no sense. If you want all my production numbers I will post them. I am in no way flaming anyone, as the knowledge on this board astounds me everyday. I just think that having to defend my own '87 GTA vert gets frustrating. I am the original owner and I know what I purchased and how it was handled. I have also said before in other posts that I didn't keep the window sticker and my RPO sheet was lost from the glove box years ago. I am still trying to locate someone out there who is an original owner of one of these vehicles with a sticker to see how it was denoted.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Yes, please post ASC's production numbers. If no customer owned conversions were performed, ASC's numbers should match GM's, correct? If ASC's numbers are higher, they must reflect customer owned conversions. In 1992, I called ASC to ask if they had a breakdown of production numbers between the 1987 Z28 and 1987 IROC-Z. I was told no such breakdown was recorded, but was given a production figure. I can't recall the exact number, but it was higher than GM's record of 1,007. Maybe you can confirm this.

In 1986, all ASC Camaro conversions were customer-owned vehicles, exactly the case with other conversion companies. GM researched all these companies and chose ASC to become their "official" conversion company. As stated above, a business is in business to make money, bottom line. So it would not make business sense to suddenly stop customer owned conversions in 1987, which was their bread and butter in 1986. As I stated above, they performed Camaro conversions for customers and these cars were serialized. To confirm this, go back through back issues of Hemmings Motor News to see classifieds ads for these cars. I have seen several in print. And if they did not produce any customer owned conversions from 1987 thru 1990 (say), how does one explain the 1988 350 IROC-Z coupe that was converted by ASC that I personally saw and examined? I'm beginning to believe that ASC phased out customer owned conversions from 1987-88 to 1990 (maybe?).

I'm sorry to say that, like you, too much time has passed. Therefore, the only credible "current generation" ASC employees that would know the story would be ones who literally worked at this company when these conversions were being performed.

Willie

pgh-gta

Actually Willie, ASC doesn't have 1007 on record. The breakdown goes as follows:


1987: firebird: 173 camaro: 955
1988: firebird: 104 camaro: 4605
1989: firebird: 330 camaro: 6473
1990: firebird: ? camaro: 5394

Also, included in the email was this info:

1986 Aftermarket: ASC Lansing Assembly(MI); GM OEM Plant: Norwood, OH; Qty: ?

Maybe this makes sense to you. It seems that ASC did produce some '86's for GM afterall.

I am not trying to be difficult, but all of the people I have spoken to were affiliated with the GM program at that time. Please make some calls for yourself. If not for the numbers, just the info on not dealing directly with the public.

Infact, I had to replace the solenoid that holds down the top on the rear deck of my car and while I spoke to Ann Macari I asked her if I could purchase this part directly from them. She said absolutely not, this was a GM part and had to go through the dealer.

As far as your comment on them being in the business to make money. I think they would make a whole lot more coin going nationwide with a GM convertible option than they would with straglers off of the street getting conversions.

And along the lines of the 350 engine. I ordered my vehicle brand new from Courtesy Pontiac in Longwood FL. During the order process I was informed that the vert came standard with the 305. I was disheartened by this and told them I wanted the 350. They were willing to do this but I was told that this would void my warranty since it would be too much torque on the body. Since you don't know me from Adam I am sure you won't believe that last sentence, but it is true. So maybe the vehicle you saw was someones car that they ordered with the 350 and voided warranty.

I hope to locate someone one day either across a forum or someone at ASC that can give an order code or something. Until then the search goes on. Joe

razor

...Hey Joe that looks like the email that I forwarded you that I recieved from Ron Edie. What the 1986 info denotes is that the f-bodies were produced at the Norwood plant and the conversions were completed at ASC's satellite company at Lansing MI and the reason for the question mark on the totals is that they could not offer me a number at the time I contacted them. Wether this meant they did not keep acurate records in 1986 I am not sure...

pgh-gta

Very intuitive Razor. That is the one you sent me. I was able to contact him by email myself and he pretty much just confirmed that info to me. Thanks for your help too.

Guest

I dont know about the warranty voiding thing, it may have been a specific part they would not warranty (like the body). My 89 350 I have all the service records and such, and there was warranty work done to the car. Maybe thats why in 89 the dealer I spoke with told me the body was not warrantied, maybe it wasnt. I do know the cars I was looking at there were 350 cars, not 305's.

ASC not doing public stuff is a bunch of BS though I must say. I live in the area where their company was based, and they started off installing sunroofs in cars, totally 100% aftermarket. I know this for fact, there are numerous cars running around here (mostly imports) with ASC sunroofs, and believe me it was not a factory deal. Maybe the person you spoke with was only referring to convertibles or something like that. It may be that originally GM contacted them to do some convertibles, and after a while GM agreed to terms with ASC and locked the public out with a licensing agreement at a later time.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

It's truly unfortunate that we'll most likely never get the complete true story. What I find interesting are ASC's production numbers. Because I don't know Firebirds, I'd like to focus on the Camaro:

1987
ASC: 955
GM: 1,007

1988
ASC: 4,605
GM: 5,620

1989
ASC: 6,473
GM: 7,185

1990
ASC: 5,394
GM: 2,023

These are huge discrepancies. Because the differences are major, you have to eliminate "miscounting" as the problem. I cannot give a viable reason why these figures are so different. So what's going on here? Any ideas?

Actually Willie, ASC doesn't have 1007 on record.

Agreed. When I called them, the figure I was given was more than 1,007. Your records show 955. Again, a major discrepancy.

It seems that ASC did produce some '86's for GM afterall.

Absolutely. We have proof. You'll see below a pic of the November, 1986 issue of Motor Trend. The car pictured is a 1986 IROC-Z convertible that was converted by ASC. I have pics within the article that prove it is a 1986. Also, ChevyKen, a member of this board, owns a 1986 ASC converted IROC-Z. In addition, I have a video of an edition of Motor Week that shows a 1986 ASC converted Z28. If that isn't enough, the third brake light used in 1986-1987 has the "86" year stamped on it -- I have this on my '87.

I am not trying to be difficult, but all of the people I have spoken to were affiliated with the GM program at that time.

Please don't construe me as being argumentative. Both our information should be used to aid in determine what really happened in the '80's.

Please make some calls for yourself. If not for the numbers, just the info on not dealing directly with the public.

Absolutely. Can you e-mail me names and numbers? I'll definitely do it!!

Infact, I had to replace the solenoid that holds down the top on the rear deck of my car and while I spoke to Ann Macari I asked her if I could purchase this part directly from them. She said absolutely not, this was a GM part and had to go through the dealer.

Having owned three 1987 Z28 convertibles (since 1992), I can conclusively state that all convertibles pieces, including ones that originated at ASC have GM part numbers. This would not only include top frame parts, etc., but also the trunk lid, rear spoiler, tonneau cover, etc.

As far as your comment on them being in the business to make money. I think they would make a whole lot more coin going nationwide with a GM convertible option than they would with straglers off of the street getting conversions.

A matter of opinion. I can tell you that when I inquired about ordering a 1987 convertible in 1986, I was told by O'Reilly Chevrolet in Tucson, Arizona, that I could purchase a lot car (coupe) and ship it to ASC!! Yes, I was told this!!

....They were willing to do this (350) but I was told that this would void my warranty since it would be too much torque on the body. Since you don't know me from Adam I am sure you won't believe that last sentence, but it is true.

I have no reason to not believe you. Along the same lines, a dealership in Las Vegas actually ordered 1987 IROC-Z convertibles with a 305 LG4 / automatic and for a "mere" $8,800, they would convert it to a 350 TPI!!! I know of the existence of one of these cars.

So maybe the vehicle you saw was someones car that they ordered with the 350 and voided warranty.

The car I saw and verified was not a "factory" convertible with a replaced engine. It was an original 350 IROC-Z coupe that was converted by ASC after the original sale. The proof of this is in the VIN. It showed a "2" as the sixth digit -- Coupe and an "8" as the eighth digit -- 350. I inspected the top mechanism and the conversion was performed by ASC, identical to my factory 1987 ragtop. It also had the ASC sticker in the door jamb. This is absolute proof that it was converted after the original sale. Whether the original owner made the arrangements with ASC after the sale or if the arrangements were made through the Chevy dealership (if possible) remains unknown.

I hope to locate someone one day either across a forum or someone at ASC that can give an order code or something. Until then the search goes on. Joe

Agreed. We'd all like this to happen.

Willie

Guest

I had been told the same thing from someone at ASC when I inquired about turning my 85 into a convertible. People have since said that they wouldn't have actually done it, but thats not what I was told on the phone. Its a never-ending story of conflicting information.

pgh-gta

Willie, when I get home from work today I will send you those names and numbers. I will not post them though, I will email them to you. These people were nice enough to talk to me after all these years and I don't want to inundate them with a ton of calls. Maybe you can come up with more creative questions than I could to get better answers. It was a little like pulling teeth though. Since it has been so long most of their records from that time frame have been purged and memories get hazy. Good luck though and hopefully you can get something tangible.

Willie

iTrader: (1)

PGH-GTA,

Thanks. I will follow up on this.

Here's another pic out of the article in the Motor Trend issue I posted above. Sorry for the quality, but it shows a number of things:

1) ASC decal below the cigarette lighter,
2) Round automatic shifter ****. This was changed to the "aerodynamic" square shifter in 1987.
3) 85-mph speedo which was not used on TPI Z28's in 1987.

The ASC decal was not used on production convertibles, only customer owned conversions.

I have another pic from the same article that shows the cloth seats -- 1986 pattern.

Willie

Willie

iTrader: (1)

Oops, forgot to attach the pic:

85 T/A WS6

Wow a ton of info here.....I just came across an 86 Birdie Vert and thought of this post....




20,000 and its all yours !!!

This is a 1986 ASC Trans Am Convertible. Was built as a T-top, WS-6, 305 port fuel injected, power windows, power locks, tilt, cruise, air, fog lights, AM/FM cassette 4-speaker, 4 wheel disc brakes, charcoal snowflake wheels included. This TA was delivered to Davis Pontiac in Charlotte, Michigan - was then purchased by a GM supplier CEO, The CEO sent the car to be converted in the GM Craft Center in Lansing, Michigan for his personal use. They were building Camaro convertibles as ordered from Chevrolet dealers at the time this TA was built. I believe this TA to be the only ASC Convertible made. 103,000 miles. No other aftermarket mods. Price - $20,000


http://www.cars-on-line.com/86ta8224.html




Don

pgh-gta

I don't know enough about these cars to tell if it is really an '86 or not, but it definately looks like an ASC cut. If it is truly an '86 then I would have to say that it is definately a rare car. Hope he gets every penny of that 20000 he is asking.

Guest

86 and 87 are pretty much identical, hard to tell with the rear glass missing and no other details as to the year.

There's more than one of those. A black one was for sale in 1990, around the same price.

John'89L98

So where does my '88 GTA convertible fit into all of this?

pgh-gta

Your '88 vert fits like this. Out of the roughly 62,000 Pontiac f-bodies produced that year you own 1 of 104 that was converted by ASC that year. That 104 number comes directly from ASC. Kudos to you. Are you the original owner?

ChevyKen

iTrader: (1)

That is not entirely correct. My car is not actually cut down by ASC, but by Choo Choo Customs with the same parts as ASC. I have this info from the previous (second) owner.
My car has no stickers at all from neither ASC or CCC.

So, thats some more to add to the confusion!


Ken

1991z281le

ASC's plant in Livonia, MI was producing Firebird (only) convertibles in mid '87 along side Buick GNXs and ASCMcLaren Mustangs. T-top Firebirds went in at one end of the line and convertibles came out at the end. Here is an image of an '87 T/A during the conversion. Build date is 08/87. Each car received this decal affixed to the driver's door.

Note the GM parts boxes on the racks to the right. These contained interior trim components for the convertibles produced by/for GM.

Bill Speed

Hey,

This is a very informative post, and timely as well.. I just started surfing here and am a 1989 Firebird Formula owner.

I think I read that all Firehawks are made from Formulas and that in 1990 something, Ed Hamburger built a convertible Firehawk (or two) third gen. ... Read in High Performance Pontiac but lost the issue somewhere (hoping to find) These were in demand and VERY expensive.

Mine is a theft recovery and missing the normal VIN from the windshield location...will try to spot hidden plaques/stickers, if any.

I think mine's somewhat rare as a 350 auto with the ASC door sticker
I need a new top and rubber weather stripping for winter, if there's a good source... was quoted $625 for the job
Bill Speed

1991z281le

Call Hank at Paradise Automotive as he bought all the surplus GM and ASC convertible parts like tops, weatherstripping, etc. His number is 813 920-7544.

Bill Speed

I think the quote was for the full works...top maybe made on locale, but unsure. They guy that works there is very personable.

I wonder now about the American Sunroof Corporation. I thought that was ASC and they also did 80s Eldorados that are not mentioned in the thread. I am looking at a 1984 Eldo covert for my next 'ride', and am curious, but is white with red leather the most common ones made? Sure seems likely. Also, I have an ad for a '89 Formula covert where the interior was mentioned as leather if memory serves...
I think that's unusual

Bill S.

1991z281le

I was referring to the Livonia ASC plant. They have done many convertible top mods for the Big 3 plus Toyota and Porsche to name a few.

Bill Speed

I'm still not sure on the two, however

Did American Sunroof Corp do American car drop tops officially?
Or is it Automotive Specialty this whole time and I'm misinformed?

Thanks In Advance,

Bill (Schwenke)

GREATEST INVENTIONS: The wheel and electric guitar!

Chickw

I posted some convertible history I've learned on http://discussions.gmforums.com/show...threadid=20852
But specific to your post... in the asc sales brochure for the 1989 dealer option convertible, ASC identifies itself as follows: "Built exclusively by Automobile Specialty Company, a division of ASC Incorporated, the 1989 Firebird convertible offers the ultimate in style with the finest in quality. ASC, the world's foremost constructor of convertibles and sunroof systems combines Firebird with top-down-fun. See your participating Pontiac dealer today to catch your own limited edition Firebird convertible." I believe I was told the company began as American Sunroof, but outgrew that name as they grew into other areas. I don't know when they added the other names and the corporate umbrella name ASC Inc. Will try to address both forums in future.

Bill Speed

That's news to me. I hadn't heard one way or the other, or that ASC actually did official convertibles, but from all accounts, seems logical. I'm guessing I better rehibilitate my car so it lasts a long time. Mine's a daily driver, and all parts need constant attention.

Was the text you posted from an actual 1989 brochure? I haven't checked the link yet, but I did check the ad I mentioned above... There was no mention of leather interior, could well have been cloth.

That 1989 was being sold for $16K by the original owner. I am the third owner and had to talk down from an original price of $10K to $8600

BILL

Bill Speed

I've read that this is how some(?)/the dealer conversions worked, you could choose your car from dealer stock and convert it by ASC through them, not taking it to ASC on your own. That's my understanding, and I also think that the 350/auto was addressed by ASC in terms of strengthening the undercarriage chassis. As for GM parts numbers, I had trouble getting parts for my top metal frame, so I had my mechanic make-shift repair it - worked just fine!

I can't confirm these ideas, but they sound reasonable. Also a breakdown of how many of these 350 Formula (and other) drop tops were produced and the original cost is something I'd like to know for sure!

BILL

Chickw

My Pontiac dealer's service guy, who was there when dealership originally sold my 89 GTA 350 cvt, went online on GM's system for 89 Camaro convertible parts and service bulletins when I needed something. I also obtained a part from a local ASC-authorized top repair place, but don't know if he got part from ASC or from Chevrolet..... My quote was from the official ASC Inc. [no GM or Pontiac identification on brochure] 1989 sales brochure--I received a photocopy from a Formula owner in 1992. --Chick W.

Chickw

Update on number of ASC firebird convertibles: Have gone back through my files from 1992 research... ASC reps. I spoke to recalled either 330 or 338 1989 convertibles, depending on who was talking. HOWEVER, in late 1992 I got in touch with an owner-since-new [Formula SLP package convert.] who had made progress documenting the 89s... He provided me a copy of “ASC TRANS-AM SALES ORDER LOG AS OF ...[morning of] 21 AUG 1989” that someone at ASC had provide him. This list shows 369 convertibles shipped to individual dealers [who are named], along with the last 6 digits of VIN#, and the ship dates. Earliest ship dates on list are 12/03/88. The fellow said this was an incomplete accounting of 1989s–was missing about 45-to-49 of the 1989s built [or built in ‘89?... as Hess noted he has a ‘90 that was built in 89]. These numbers are in the ball park of prior postings based on ASC reps’ recall, but are somewhat higher.
Chick W.

Guest

I disagree with this. The only non-factory stuff I have spotted under my car is the factory SFC's next to the rockers that are identical to the ones on all the other convertibles, and theres piece of stamped sheetmetal above the rear tires that doesnt add any structural strength. It would have to be on other convertibles as well.

Bill Speed

I have nothing to compare it to personally, but this can be remedied by welding additional support, can it not?

I have a buddy who's a real DIY gearhead. I think he suggested the notion early on.

Bill

Bill Speed

Not to keep bringing up my car, but it's my only third gen and my only car right now, but the special Pennsylvania re-issue VIN lists the last six digits as 250774.
I believe the car originated in Pennsylvania but was bought in Minnesota
BILL

Chickw

My list shows your car#250774 as ordered by Liberty Pontiac, with a schedule date at ASC of 3-23-89 and ship date to dealer of 6-27-89... special order # 10024, part # V-PTGX-0000-00B0... the B in the number indicates a black top -- other colors that year were tan and blue. Search google on Yahoo for Liberty Pontiac -- they may still exist under that name. Let me know. Chick W. ps. the schedule date may have been 3-28-89... the old dot matrix printing makes it hard to read.

razor

Bill that Pennsylvania re-issue VIN will be of no help unless they used the last six digits of your original VIN. Have you found the VIN yet??? If not you will need the original VIN number your car was given during production, not the assigned VIN number from Penn. state. All history from origin to 1993 will be attached to the original VIN and you can then set out on finding what dealership sold it new in 1989. But using an assigned VIN won't work.

Chickw

Thanks Razor - I don't know VINs from my elbow. Would Bill's original VIN have been on other parts of the care -- e.g "numbers match" with engine e.g.?? Would Pennsylvania have been able to get the VIN other than off the under windshield plate? Chick W.

razor

...well with the car being a theft recovery I am unsure of if any of the VIN stickers placed throughout the bodyparts were there anymore but there is always a partial vin on the front subframe and on engine,trans, ect. At some point the car would have to have been identified to have a re-issued VIN installed. After all once the car was stolen someone was paid out by an insurance company. That company would hold legal title to to car. They would have to release title either from good will or a money payment, ect. before the car could ever be registered again privately by an individual. Also the car would have a leen against it as well until the matter was cleared up. So yes it would have been properly identified by the original VIN before the issue of the new VIN.

Guest

Second thought... going to email that.

Chickw

The added cost for the dealer-ordered convertible option was $4990 for the black or blue-topped cars, and $5290 for the tan top material. My dealer invoice showed $5290 - consistent with these numbers that SuperDutyDave reported from an original ASC order form.

Bill Speed

How long were other convertible top colors available for Firebirds (& Camaros)? (besides black, which is my color)

Thanks for all the info, guys!
BILL

Chickw

1987 ASC firebird sales brochure says black & tan were available. 1989 brochure says black, blue, and tan available. I don't have 1988 info. "Official" factory Camaro top colors should be available via old Chevrolet sales literature.

John'89L98

Where exactly did you get those numbers? I didn't think ASC still had any records of F-bodies converted. If that was the case, wouldn't we just be able to call ASC up and ask them? And how do those 104 break down? Mine is a black 305 Trans Am WS-6 with 4-wheel disks. Oh, and no... I'm not the original owner, I'm number 3. No. 2 was a long-time friend of mine. - John'89L98

pgh-gta

Unfortunately, ASC's records have all been purged from this time frame. Like I said earlier in the post, I played phone tag from the midwest to the west coast looking for people associated with the convertible program in the late 80's. Rod's numbers were the closest I could nail it down. I gave all of my names of people I contacted with their phone numbers to Willie because he said he wanted to follow up my finds. I guess he never had the chance. That is unfortunate because he seems to be a real pro at this sort of thing and maybe he could have found more info than I did.

Either way, your '89 is definately rare and more importantly, factory authorized. Oh, ASC didn't keep records of the breakdown in models that were converted, only the whole group. Sorry.

Deemax

iTrader: (1)

I jumped all over this info, since we're all always keeping our eyes open for parts sources. Interesting, I found reference to this phone number in 2 places (I tried to do a search for "Paradise Automotive", but came up empty). Web site http://www.ascmclaren.com/contact.htm lists this as their own phone number....however, as you can see, that's the ASC McLaren home page. I also got a refence to it at http://www.classic-designconcepts.com/cdc_faq.html, where it sends you to a company called Factory Muscle Parts, at this phone number. Has anyone ever actually dealt with "Hank at Paradise Automotive" at this phone number?

Also, ChickW , do you have info on the Camaro conversions too, or just the Bird? I was interested in your post to BillSpeed where you checked his VIN and came up with a build date and dealer info. I'm the second owner of mine (built 6/89, purchased 8/90). I know it came up from FL, but I wonder what else you could tell me about it. If you have Camaro info, I'll pass on the vin and appreciate what you can tell me. Thanks!

Chickw

Deemax-

Unfortunately my list is only for ASC's Firebird conversion "program," and only for 1989 Firebirds. The fellow who gave me the list in 1992 said it was not complete--missing about 40 or so of the 89 Firebirds. He got the list from someone at ASC. Local dealer had told me they had seen 350 Camaro conversions, so I knew they existed. Don't know numbers. There were also a few 87 Firebirds and a run of 300+ Firebirds in 88, so there may be Camaros converted from those years. Chick Walter

Bill Speed

He's talking about 1988 production and not the 1989s. I own the 1989 350 Formula in the post pictures. It is still with me, even though I haven't posted recently. I was given two numbers to reference for top size ordering, but in terms of production, I think there were just over 400 1989 ASC converts...from what I read earlier.
Still impressive low number though.
Mine is a 350 L98 auto, so even more rare!

The numbers for the top replacement I haven't confirmed but they are for rear window dimension and top side to side. Letters used to designate, but I forget the specs, as I left my notes in my car.

I was told several available for ASC replacement and I only need those two measurements. Is weather stripping the same then?
Bill S[peed]

pgh-gta

If you are referring to my post, it was very clear. I didn't refer to any particular year in that recent post. In '89 there were 330 or so made, so I was told. A long time has passed and no-one knows for sure. Earlier in the post someone asked me about an '88 and that's where the 104 number came from. Sorry if you got confused by that.