Pony Killer

The combination of those L31 vortecs, on a 350 (or 383 for that matter) Comp Xtreme energy cams, Topped with an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, just seems to be a match made in heaven.

There's just something there that absolutely works together. Just bout every car i see down the track that's got em, runs strong.

The weather round here in New Jersey Finally broke, at least a lil so after months of waiting i took my Z28 down to Atco.

To make a long story short. 12 runs down the track, and it's consistently turning 12.55-12.59' @ 109.9-110.2 mph, on poor 1.91 60'ers. at that.

It's not even close to being tuned yet, and it's running very strong. It's just a potent set of parts.

the best overal timeslip went like this.

1.917 .................60
5.281..................330
8.059 @ 87.32.....1/8
10.423..................990
12.546 @109.96....1/4

had one freak run where it trapped 111.3 as well for the best trap.

My heads however are not untampered with. they have a standard 3 angle vavle job, and some bowl work. still have the stock valves in them.. have springs suitable for the Comp XE 274 cam. they sit over top a 355 with a static compression of about 10.7:1 backed by a 700R, an ACT 9.5" 3300 stall converter, and 3.73 geared 10 bolt.
Race wieght of the car... a solid guess would be a bit under 3400lbs.

likeistoleit

Put the same combo in a 2nd gen, with 3000 stall and 411s. It ran consistant 12.70s with minimal tuning and that was a heavy *** car.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

what cam are you running now? which xtreme energy i mean. thanks

johnsjj2

You guys are getting me all excited. I tore my engine down after 1k miles due to silver crap in the oil. Well, I am kepping the cam, intake, new pistons, and doing a little more work to the heads, along with new springs, and roller rockers. Bought some good Hooker headers, so no more 1.5" primary stuff. Can't wait to get it all put together.

Pony Killer

i'm Running the Comp XE 274 cam.
Hydrualic flat tappet cam. 230/236 @.050 .487/.490 lift.

i'm also running the Crane Race gold 1.5 rollers.... Like them alot.

Car runs strong

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

do you think upping it to 1.6 roller rockers would have any effect?

black84-6spdz28

that cam/head/intake combo made 442hp@5900rpms and 452ft lbs of torque.....i have the same set up cept 3.23s....some stangs are getting a hurting this year..lol

83TransAm

I am so glad someone posted this topic. I have literally that SAME combo and I was doubting myself earlier, but from you guys are saying, it sounds like I am going to have a monster on my hands! I am now refreshingly excited and can't wait to get the Bird flying again!

Steve

84s/e

You guys are getting me all ecxited! I'm ready to start building my engine.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

this combo sounds a LOT better than the 500HP/500TQ rating with that mini-blower than kingtalon built for a lot more $$$$ too.

JPrevost

Good thread. Glad to see vortecs being taken advantage of. I've gotta get my 60' times down to something respectable. Sub 2.0's with street tires would be nice but without those relocation brackets and road racing suspension it's near impossible on 245/50's.

johnsjj2

I love mine. There are better heads, but there is always something better. For a production pc., they are very good.
JPrevost,
Wouldn't the relocation brackets help, or is the suspension to tight to really take advantage of the brackets? I made some for my car, along with cutting 1/2 coil on all the springs. With the pass. side sway bar mount gone, the car doesn't spin as much, but I want to try with both mounts out.

JPrevost

I don't have any traction because I don't have those brackets installed yet. Lowering a car and not using them makes for lots of tire smoke.

Pony Killer

Just got back from the track...

more good news. i got some bite tonight.. here's the best slip

1.769............ ........60
5.094............ 330
7.849@88.2........... 1/8
10.189................... 990
12.286 @ 111.37mph ...1/4

changed the advance springs in the distributor.
had the timing @ 40 but put it back to 36 when it started pinging as it got colder.
still jetted the same as last time 76/88 which is probalby no where's near right yet.. but it at least runs on it.
it was too damn cold out there tonight to monkey witht he fuel.

black84-6spdz28

damn...ehhe

84305HO

Congrats, those are some excellent times and a well balanced
combination.

OMINOUS_87

I have a XR276HR that I am plugging into a 10.25:1 383 with ported E-TEC 170s and ported SDPC-Superram combo. Its good to hear that are a bunch of folks out there running "budget" heads and turning killer times instead of paying AFR type prices.

Pony Killer

What rpm are you coming over the line at and what rpm are you shifting at?

r90camarors

I'm running Pro Topline's vortec heads on my 383(which will hopefully be ready friday). The heads are port and polished with a valve job. Manley valves and comp springs. The cam is a comp cam 305-8: 220/230 .510/.510 144 lsa. The machine shop runs the same heads on their 305 race cars, which have taken first the last two years at the local track. It's capped off with Pro Topline's version of the edelbrock performer intake, and a 9.8:1 compression ratio. I am very excited as well, and will post track times and dyno results as soon as I get her broke in.

Pony Killer

The shift points i'm really still working on..

I'm Just started tuning the car. right not it's jetted 80-86 and it's crossing right on the rich mark of the AF gauge.

I'm crossing at about 5800 rpm if i remember.

i try to shift it at 6100 out of first and out of second at 6300-6400
but lately i've been late on that 2-3 shift and have been hitting it at 6600 and it's starting to nose over.
lil more practice and i'll be there.

Was down there again tonight.. was running with a full tank of fuel trying to get some traction.... that i did.. 1.731 60er i pulled. most of em were in the 1.73-77 range, at 12.32-38 tonight once i got it timed and whatnot.

the last two runs i launched very agressively holding about 1500 rpm and punching it. it's getting very close to haning the tires it feels like.. whether it is or not.. i couldn't tell you.

What it is doing definitly is running the bowls out. i've gotta bring the levels up. the engine cuts out from lack of fuel when the nose comes up. and screams off when it comes back down.... pretty impressive it was still cuttin low-mid 1.7 60 foot times, and still hitting the 12.3's @110 it was doing launching easier.

zupmanZ28

man I'm getting excited after reading this. I have the same cam, same intake, Trickflow heads, and 1.6rr's with a t-56, and 4.10 gears. I'm Using BFG DR's. I'm hoping to hell that this thing can bust out some low 12 sec timeslips. Ponykiller do you have flow numbers for your heads? or any general idea what they flow?

btw, it seems to like shifting around 6300 rpm...

Eric

OMINOUS_87

zupmanZ28

You better bust out some low 12s and try to dip 11.99s, especially since you can row through that 6spd.

Pony Killer

Next time you do hit the track if you could check your rpm across the line it would be very much appreciated! Also, what are the details on your suspension setup? What you running for a torque arm?

Peace!!!

johnsjj2

Yeah, I want to know the suspension too. I've not been to a track, but no matter what I do, the tires spin through 1st. If I let out, and get 2nd, it spins a little then goes. But I don't know what kills time more, spinning, or letting off.

black84-6spdz28

pony killer....try shifting at 5900...thats where it makes peak power.....i ordered the back issue of car craft that they built this motor in...be nice to show dyno'ed proff of what the power out put on my same motor combo will pull or should pull..its the sept 2002 issue (440hp vortec)


i asked about the carb cuz i was told to use a 3310 holley on my motor and it should more then well feed it...i have a 600 on it right now and it seems to lag at 4200-6000....but from 2500-4100 it pulls hard...oh well...i know what the problem is..lol

zupmanZ28

Hehe, it's funny you say that, cause thats my goal for this year. Well, that and not having to fix it anymore.

and TTT cause i wanna know Pony Killers suspension/ tire combo

Eric

johnsjj2

Yo Pony Killer, whats hooking the wheels up so well?

Pony Killer

Suspesion. Spohn SFC's, kinda a "custom" set he did for me a few years ago. Boxed LCA's, boxed panhard rod, poly bushings there. summit adjustabe rear shocks, set on 50/50, no front sway bar, and the spohn adjsutable torque arm, that's the only chunk of money back there. i bought that 4 years ago so it's kinda 'free' the way i see it now.

tires i'm running mickey thompson sportsman pro's 26x9.5x16's tubed tires on some old centerlines i picked up for ten bucks. run them at 16 psi, If the tracks biting hard i'll hold 1500rpm, and plant on it. if it's not good i'll leave at about 1200 at hafl throttle and roll into it all by about 30 feet or start pedaling it if it gets squirly if i can't do that i generally pack it in. i don't really dare launch any harder for fear of the C-clips breaking and sending me tumbling.

I'm sure the converter's got a lot to do with it. i'm running a 9.5" 3300stall custom ACT converter i bought from Probuilt automatics on the trans board. first gear is violent and short with that 700R

As far as the shift points and whatnot, that's an adventure every tnight, every time i change something, timing or jetting wise, the shiftpoints change too.. just a matter of wheel time before i get them down. it seems to like right round 6000-6100 out of first, that's when i get over 88.0mph in the 1/8, and high 110's-111 in the quarter.

As far as the heads go. the flow numbers are like this.
Bare heads(no intake or exhaust bolted on) bowl work, valve job

.... intake............. exhaust
.200... 142.5.............102.9
.300 .. 193.1 ............138.8
.400... ..220.9.............152.9
.500.... 222.0..............170.6

Thefella that did my heads has done many sets, identical to mine, one pair on his car for a bit. with the performer rpm intake, they typically peak out at 229-230 on his flowbench, giving the intake side a bit of a boost

black84... me i'd change the carb, the 3310 is good. 750 vac sec will do you quite right. i'm running a 780 Vac sec on mine.

Crossing the line at about 5700-5800 i think

zupmanZ28

Damn my suspension is almost identical to yours too. I run jegster SFC's, a spohn torque arm, boxed lca's, boxed panhard bar and poly bushings everywhere. I use Lakewood 50/50 shocks, and the swaybar comes undone at the track.


Only major difference is i'm using 255/50/16 BFG drag radials instead of a real slick. Im hoping for anything better than 1.9x for the 60'.

Thanks for the numbers on those heads too... mine flow 6 cfm less until .400 lift, at which point they flow about 10 cfm more, and at .5 they flow about 20 cfm more (254 cfm at .5)

Thanks for the break down.

Eric

Pony Killer

no problem. the tires aren't actually stlicks, they are the D1 compoutnd but have tread are are dot aproved... i think that poor rear would last all of one pass on full stickes.

or maybe 5 if i let the air out of the these.

OMINOUS_87

Pony Killer

Agreed, that is one of my big conerns. Life of the 10 bolt. These are my factory 10 bolt upgrades. Richmond 3.73, Auburn Pro Posi, Ultimate diff cover with carrier support. How far do you guys think I can push this?

zupmanZ28

It's kinda iffy. Many people are running well into the 11's with stock 10 bolts ( a friend of mine is 11.77's with a ls1, bone stock rear cept gears). Willie is running 12.0s on his 10 bolt with a girdle, axles and c clip eliminators.

Others are busting them with street tires running low 14's. It's all a matter of luck

Eric

Pony Killer

i dunno how long they'll last.. it's a big concern for me.

i'm running some ole 3.73 gm gears, an auburn pro, standard cover, and even the original straps for the ujoint.
within the next week i'll have a new cover and the new caps.

but the thing that buggs me themost is those C-clips.
running these rears hard on those c-clips is playing with fire.. i've seen a good 5-10 cars break the c-clips over the years and loose an axle. most on the line. but one stands out... at the top end about 1000 feet down. loosing a cclip, shaft comes partially out, car turns sideways, over and over sideays that car went it was really ugly.. guy got chopperd out. it was only a mid 12 sec car.

i'd rather not have htat happen to me.

zupmanZ28

well i just got back from the track (times in sig... details on the racin board.)

Ponykiller, i'd could use your help getting the timing curve right. What components are using? (i'm assuming this is an HEI as well).

I'm trapping pretty close to the mph you are, i'm just off on the launch, i can't keep it from bogging out on me when the nose pops up ( i'm assuming the same problem your having).

Thanks for the help,

Eric

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

any idea on what my car might run? The heads are 461's with 2.02/1.60, good bowl work, port matched. I just took the heads off today, I am going to see if I can have them flowed. The car runs pretty good i think, i have had a 650DP and a 750VS carb on it, and have a 600DP on it right now. The convertor is a 12in 2500. The 3300 ACT convertor you are running is making a huge difference I am sure. The res of my mods are in my sig. Comp cams recommend a 274xtreme cam for my setup but I ordered a 268. I am thinking about putting the 274 in, depends on what the heads flow. I figure if I go to the 274 I will need more gear and more stall. Pro Builts recomended a 2600 9.5 for the 268xtreme cam. Any thoughts.
I have only raced one car. My firends 94 T/A A4 w/ CAI, power programmer and 4.10's. I put about 4 cars on him from a 4omph roll and a 15 mph roll.
Thanks.

Pony Killer

that's funny Zup that's nearly dead ***** on what i ran my first night down.. a 12.95 @ 109.3

As far as my timing curve. I'm running about 16 initial.. it's very hard to tell what the true inital is because the advance springs i'm running are so light it's actually got some advance in it.

So for the total advance.. i'm running 38* now, coming in at 3300-3400rpm it looks like. now i've got home made timing marks.. so it's not dead on, but it's close.

the advance springs are the two lightest ones. it's an hei distributor, with a new pickup coil, and a pertronix flamethrower rebuild kit.


As far as what yours would run jay... it's different enough that i can't wager an accureat guess. and converters and whatnot being a bit missmatched makes it even harder... but nonetheless i'll say it sounds healthy and should get you into the low 13's without too much of a fight.

zupmanZ28

Pony,
thats good to hear because honestly i was a bit dissapointed when i saw what you ran, then i only went 12.9.

I ordered a recurving kit and jet extensions, hopefully this will help me out. I'm getting a decent amount of wheelhop on the shifts, so i might be investing in a set of LCA's and brackets soon.

Eric

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

what part of it do you think is mismatched?

88ROC1LE

iTrader: (4)

How well do you guys think the L31, Edel combo would work with the LT4 Hotcam and 1.6 RR's? Plus a bit of the giggle juice

Pony Killer

well jay, I don't think the 600dp is enough carb for it first off. I think that large type converter isn't helping you out either. I'm posative it will be a night and day difference, if you went with the converter pro built recomends.

The XE268 is a great cam, provided that those heads flow pretty well.. those few lil things are probalby all that's holding you back. although i don't know what your compression ratio is.

A good covnerter does wonders.


about the hot cam. personally i'm not a huge fan of it in carbed cars.... basically cause it's not designed for them..

I'd rather have a cam in there with a 110 lobe sep instead of the more efi friendly 112-14's whatever they run(can't remember off hand) also i'd rather have a cam runing around .500 lift with 1.5 rockers... the vortec's peak out about there.
I'f your going with a roller lifter type i'd go with the comp Xr roller cams. they are a good deal more agressive than the hotcam, and they are designed for the induciton you are using.
as far as using it with the spray... coudn't tell ya.. i don't have too much experience with that.. either using a cam desinged for spray, or one designed for a small blower will work

86IROC350NY

Wonder what my car will run. I gotta do the vac hose trick on my carb so it doesn't bog. My shift points are gonna be high because of my cam. If I had 4.10s I could shift lower. Hope my cam/head/intake combo does ok. I think I have the suspension mods to bite, but a torque arm may be something to go for.
I am hoping for 12s on street tires. What can i get with Nittos? A buddy of mine is gonna sell me his.
--Dan

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

It doesn't much matter now, I found out today my whole engine is taco'd. So now its a new 350 w/ vortec's and a 274x cam. I agree with you on the convertor. I am going to get 3.73's now too.

I need a new freakin hobby.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

ok, so i have been looking the spd2000's website and am trying to figure the best/cheapest way to get these heads. I was looking at the different prices and the complete 979 dollar one kinda suprised me. So i have a few questions.

I have the springs for the 274xtreme cam already, is it worth it to buy the upgraded heads? You have to maching the guides down right for more lift? What about the spring pocket?

Should I have screw in studs installed or are the press in studs ok?

If I have studs put in, can I run guide plates and use my non alinging rocker arms? If not I will have to buy aligning rockers.

I have the head gaskets, bolts and stuff so I dont need those. I know I will need intake gaskets.

Also have any of heads been ported or they stock, and if so how much?

If I am going to have to spend almost a grand for heads I will consider some others.

Thanks.
Jason

kfoley

You have to machine down the guides and spring pockets. If it was me, I'd buy the heads modified already. You could buy stock ones and have the machine work done yourself, but I doubt you'd save any if at all. You can get by with screw in studs with cams below the low .500's lift. Getting them is just extra insurance. I'm going to run the XE274 cam and Vortecs and I'm not putting in studs. If you do install them you can run your non self aligning rocker arms. The modified heads sold by SDPC are not ported, they are only machined for bigger springs. For your application I'd buy the modified heads for $640 and the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake for another $170. It comes out to about $800 which isn't too bad for a head and intake combo. You might also keep an eye out for people selling Vortecs. That's how I got mine for $500 shipped.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

what about the air gap manifold, is anyone using one of them?

Pony Killer

well... the machine work to the guides was only about 20 bucks, on mine so it wasn't a huge deal. i kept the stock studs, being sub .5 lift.

As far as prices... mine were 854 give or take(was a few years back) ready to go, including the price of the head, the springs, all the hard ware, decking them, bowl work, and a valve job.

lil additional fuel to the fire..
i just went 12.18 @ 111.6 tonight. on a 1.68 60er.

Lil food for thought. that was through the exhaust... the dump unopened.

zupmanZ28

I'm using the Air gap. We're goin back to the track tonight provided i can get rid of this miss i got going on right now. I'm told the voltage reg. in the alternator is bad and causing the problem, so we'll find out today. It also looks like it might rain.

Hopefully better times to come....

Eric

johnsjj2

You know what really sucks, I was doing some port work on the intake side of mine, while I had the engine apart, and I got a little thin on the pushrod hole side. I poked through. So, I got me some of that Fast-Weld stuff, and all is good......so far!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

i talked to my friend who owns the machine shop and he said he'd cut the guides and the spring pockets for 50$. I didn't think that was to bad. He mentioned something that they sell ProTop cylinder heads or something, there was a set that had redesigned ports and were supposed to be good for 30+ horsepower over factory heads and he gave me a good price on them I said I'd probably go with the vortecs anyway unless he could produce some flow numbers.

Hawk92z-TDZ

Sweet heads with great flow #'s

http://www.protopline.com/223400080a.asp

Pony's heads
.... intake............. exhaust
.200... 142.5.............102.9
.300 .. 193.1 ............138.8
.400... ..220.9.............152.9
.500.... 222.0..............170.6


Pro toplines

.200 ..150.89 ...............100.99
.300 ..206.86 ...............156.94
.400 ..242.68 ...............176.85
.500 ..257.90 ...............186.34

r90camarors

Those are the heads I'm going to be using. My machine shop swears by them in terms of results for cost.

F-BIRD'88

r90camarors : Any flowbench figures on Your Protopline Vortecs?