Aftermarket Product ReviewProvide questions and answers about aftermarket parts for the Third Generation F-Body.
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All you need to know in reference to those plugs and our cars is don't use them. If you have a civic or some other car like that with the plugs in the top center of the bore then it's ok, with v type engines they only cause problems.
Originally posted by Inwo All you need to know in reference to those plugs and our cars is don't use them. If you have a civic or some other car like that with the plugs in the top center of the bore then it's ok, with v type engines they only cause problems.
what he said. I personally really like the design of the NGK's the best of all I have seen. Don't buy into the gimmic stuff.
NGK are good in a bike but for a car I have had my best luck with Accel U grove plugs. They last forever and never foul. They have never become a weak part of my Ign.
Accel 0574
Premium Plug: U-Groove Resistor Spark Plug;
3 Month Limited Warranty
Ships in 5 days
Weight: 0.4 lbs.
$1.99
or
Accel 0274
Spark Plug: U-Groove Standard Spark Plug;
3 Month Limited Warranty
Ships in 5 days
Weight: 0.4 lbs.
$1.99
or
Accel 0574
Spark Plug: U-Groove Resistor Spark Plug; Tapered; Projected; 0.625 in. Reach Plug;
3 Month Limited Warranty
Ships in 5 days
Weight: 0.4 lbs.
$1.99
or
Accel 0574S
Spark Plug: U-Groove Resistor Spark Plug; Taperd; Header Projected; 0.625 in. Reach Plug;
3 Month Limited Warranty
Ships in 5 days
Weight: 0.4 lbs.
$3.59
i am asking because i always just used Bosch Platinum +4's but after going thru the board it seems that they are not worth it and how often should i change these plugs i always never changed my + 4's because they said they were good to 100000 miles any help would be appreciated
The way I see it....if you're gonna spend all that cash on the +4's, hell, might as well go all the way and buy some Iridium plugs. Autozone started carrying it...but I can hardly justify the price. Or those new Halo type, with the ring ground electrode. Those look killer. Expensive as hell and tricky to find though.
How about get a reliable spark for cheap and get a set of NGKs? Then you'll have money to buy an airfoil or maybe a billet tuned port injection plate or possibly a chrome dipstick. Those at least don't hurt performance and cause detonation while retaining the uselessness and extravagance of the Bosch +4s.
Originally posted by Inwo How about get a reliable spark for cheap and get a set of NGKs? Then you'll have money to buy an airfoil or maybe a billet tuned port injection plate or possibly a chrome dipstick. Those at least don't hurt performance and cause detonation while retaining the uselessness and extravagance of the Bosch +4s.
Where are you getting your info from Inwo? I've ran Bosch 4's for 60K and have had no problems. I actually got a faster start and better mileage. Is that just your own experience or have you seen it somewhere else?
Splitfires are just a gimmick plug. I can sum up autolite plugs and wires in one simple phrase "Don't Do It!" Autolites are probably the worst ignition parts I've ever disgraced any of my vehicles with. I'm kinda lukewarm on Bosch plugs as well. I had an old Toyota and had my girlfriend at the time pick up a set of plugs. She brought home a set of autolites. It had terrible pick up with them. I replaced them with Bosch platinums and it was like night and day. However, the Bosch plugs seem to work really well in the four cylinder engines, but everyone I know who's used them in a V8 weren't very happy with them. I usually run standard Champion resistors in my V8's with great results. The last time I did plugs, I used standard AC Delco, which work pretty good, but it seemed to run a little more powerful using the Champions. I can't knock good old AC Delco plugs for longevity though. I once removed a set from an engine with 93,000 miles on it and they still weren't misfiring! The electrode was burned down at a forty-five degree angle so bad it was almost non-existent, but they never missed.
__________________ 89RS w/350 TPI; 69RS/SS w/450 HP 350/Muncie 4-Speed "Too weird to live, too rare to die."
I dont think there is any kind of rule for a bad plug really....what someone else thinks is a crap plug, another persons vehicle runs great with it. I think it just boils down to, what works for you. Every engine is different.
I did a minor tuneup on my aunt's 91 Chevy Cavalier, I replaced the plugs with Bosch Platinums and the car runs much better. The old plugs were in bad shape though. I use Platinum +4's on my car but I may try NGK because I use one on my motorcycle and it seems to be the best plug for it.
i'm changing my plugs next month and i'm going to go with NGk platinum. i was thinking about the iridium but then.. the extra 4bucks/plug doesnt seem justifiable
Ive thought about running Iridiums too, but then...my car is never running 'perfect' due to a highly modded motor and really stock chip. And something tells me those Iridiums, with such a tiny electrode, would be easy to foul.
I combined the Bosche +4 platinums with my MSD balster coil and they fouled out in 2000 miles. They are pure garbage and I wasted a crap ton of money on them. HEi systems send to much juice to them and they fould out really bad in a short amount of time. They are perfect for small cars with weak ingnition systems. I should say they are really good for small cars. Better throttle response and mileage but stay away from them for f-bodies. Just get plain old AC delcos and be done with it. You are not running anything exotic that will need crazy plugs.
Originally posted by ShiftyCapone I combined the Bosche +4 platinums with my MSD balster coil and they fouled out in 2000 miles.
Then you have a problem. The idea with platinum plugs is longevity. And here is the concept with multiple electrode plugs;
It is not to make 2, or 4 sparks, it is to allow the spark to travel the path of least resistance. This means you will get the fastest, largest spark, most consistently; this is all for peak efficency. If your car burns oil, runs rich, or doesn't run healtily, then you will foul a Bosch platinum plug. I ran a set of Bosch single electrode platinum plugs in my Camaro for a year, and I will take a picture for the sake of this thread they looked so outstanding I kept them. I only removed them to put +2 series plugs in. I use an MSD box, 8.5mm MSD wires, Flame Thrower Coil and Control Module, and NASCAR series cap and rotor, with these plugs it can't be beat unless you want to talk about a multiple coil pack conversion kit from MSD. For a healthy fuel injected vehicle, it's hard to find a better plug if you ask me, namely the +2 and +4 plugs.
Originally posted by tpiroc Then you have a problem. The idea with platinum plugs is longevity. And here is the concept with multiple electrode plugs;
It is not to make 2, or 4 sparks, it is to allow the spark to travel the path of least resistance. This means you will get the fastest, largest spark, most consistently; this is all for peak efficency. If your car burns oil, runs rich, or doesn't run healtily, then you will foul a Bosch platinum plug. I ran a set of Bosch single electrode platinum plugs in my Camaro for a year, and I will take a picture for the sake of this thread they looked so outstanding I kept them. I only removed them to put +2 series plugs in. I use an MSD box, 8.5mm MSD wires, Flame Thrower Coil and Control Module, and NASCAR series cap and rotor, with these plugs it can't be beat unless you want to talk about a multiple coil pack conversion kit from MSD. For a healthy fuel injected vehicle, it's hard to find a better plug if you ask me, namely the +2 and +4 plugs.
See that is the thing. I have no problem period. The car runs great and had about 29,000 miles on it when I took them out, I replaced them with AC delcos and the stumble and hesitation went away. I don't think they are a true platinum and the conductivity is poor and they corrode very quickly. They are platinum coated and I think they have coating iussues that account for the mixed results. I am very aware of the advantage of least resistance and this has happened to many people besides me. There is no such thing as a faster spark. They don't seem to like a hot spark. You seem to be an exception. This is interesting because I know you have a good combo that runs really well. Maybe it is a quality control thing. I have to do a little more reasearch on platinum conductivity an corosivity. I cannot remember off hand.
Autolite platinum plugs have a dab of platinum at the end, Autolite double platinums have platinum on both ends, and the the Autolite triple platinums have platinum throughout the entire plug. Similarly, the Bosch platinums have platinum through the entire length of the plug - that's the best I know about platinum content in "platinum series" plugs. Sorry to hear you had bad luck with them
every car will run different with different ones, my dads 396 in his nova worked well with certain NGK's but not others, my car didnt like ac delcos but like autolites (i think it was the delcos it hated) i think you should just try out some for yourself. but why spend money on expensive plugs if you dont need them. try the cheapos and see how they work.
Originally posted by tpiroc Autolite platinum plugs have a dab of platinum at the end, Autolite double platinums have platinum on both ends, and the the Autolite triple platinums have platinum throughout the entire plug. Similarly, the Bosch platinums have platinum through the entire length of the plug - that's the best I know about platinum content in "platinum series" plugs. Sorry to hear you had bad luck with them
I will get back with you on this. You have a great combo so that makes me wonder why it didn't work with me. I don't make ground ripping power but combustion for similar motors should differ than much. Be prepared for a nerd answer. I am going to ask some questions with some material experts here.
They are absolute crap. Ever wonder why people cut back the electrode slightly to expose the spark more? All the plus 4's do is do the exact opposite to what you want to do. It's a gimmic.
Originally posted by tpiroc To improperly insulate the center element so it functions improperly with distorted spark characteristics?
I would expect an ignorant reply like that from you, but no suprise, you are wrong. You want to have a large spark exposure, which plus 4's obviously do not have. They have 3 useless electrodes blocking the spark. This is what you want. http://www.gmtips.com/3rd-degree/dox...tion/spark.htm
Here is another pic showing what you want. The opposite of the gimmic known as plus 4's. http://www.sparkplugs.com/glossaryImage.asp?imgID=42
This helps expose the spark to the mixture and protects against pre-ignition from an overheated ground electrode. Don't buy into the plus 4's as they cause more harm than good. The only advantage I can see using them is if you never plan to change your plugs again, in which the extra 3 electrodes can be used as the others slowly wear down over a long period of time, but the other 3 will still be uselessly blocking the mixture to the spark. As long as you do regular maintainence to your vehicle, the standard single electrode plug is far, far superior than any of the gimmic plugs out there.
Here is the truth behind the compatability issue of platinum plugs with HEI systems. I will try to keep this as non nerdy as possible so that you guys can understand a bit. I had a lengthy converseration about this with my buddy who to is also a mechanical engineer but curren;t working on his Ph.D in materials. Who better to ask then him. Platinum is one of the most conductive materials there is. However corosion is also proportional to conductivity. Meaning, that the higher the conductivity the higher the rate of corosion. So the more current and voltage you send to platinum the faster its rate of corrosion. Cars with less powerfull ignition systems get away with this and benifit from the higher conductivity. Because standard plugs do not conduct as well they in turn do not corrode as fast and provide a relatively long life span with a hot spark system like the HEI. I can go into a little more detail if this does not make sense to some people. So it is not that the plugs aren't any good, it is just that they aren't a good choice for our applications. Just selecting heads and cam combos. Just because it is better doesn't mean it will work well.
Good explanation there Shifty. Makes sense to me. Bosch platinums worked great in the little toyota I used to have, but they've never impressed me much in a good old chevy v8.
__________________ 89RS w/350 TPI; 69RS/SS w/450 HP 350/Muncie 4-Speed "Too weird to live, too rare to die."
Spark plugs are like toilet paper. Try some out until you find the one that works best. If its too soft try a different ply. If it pulls your @ss hair off when you wipe, dont use it. Same with plugs. Find what your engine likes to run and go with those.
__________________ Picard out!
1985 Z28 w/408cid 525 HP
Raptor 700R4 Tranny w/2500 stall
(Back in the saddle Baby!)
Other family members:
Me: 2002 Camaro SS, 3.73 posi SS pkg
I have run the 4+ bosch and can't really say anything bad about them, had no problems whatsoever, I didn't notice anything different either though. Just go with some regular plugs, I don't think the bosch are worth the money, but they are good plugs.
__________________
91 RS Camaro | 383 LT1/T-56
Stage III ported heads | CC306 Cam | Electric Waterpump
1.6:1 Rocker Arms | SLP headers | 3" Exhaust
Forged Rotating assembly | Whole lot of *** woopin!
Best time (with stock cam on the old 350): 60' 2.396 - 13.733 @ 107.48 MPH
Well, I've had nothing but a good experience with +4's as well and I'm also running them with a MSD Blaster coil. As a matter of fact I put 15,000 miles on them and then pulled them out to do the headers and they still looked great. Work fine for me but that's not to say that some bad ones don't exist. I work in the auto aftermarket and quality isn't always perfect. I've had some really bad experiences with Champion plugs.
What we need is a platinum spark plug with a provision for a burn-off system just like the MAF sensor (with its platinum wire) has.. now THAT would be an expensive plug...
BTW, if anyone is looking to buy standard plugs with the cutback ground, you can get the autolite racing plugs: AR3924 in my case..
They DEFINITELY work well in small engines. I do my experimenting in my Hyundai. 1) it's cheaper to spend the money on only four plugs, and 2) it sooooo easy to change them in the four-cylinder!
I put Splitfires in my little '95, and the car took off like a rocket!!! To whomever said it's a gimmick, it's not! That plug is for real! So when I got my new little 2000 car, I immediately changed the plugs. But this time I decided to see how the Bosch plugs would work, and I put in +2s. They were nice and smooth, but they didn't seem to produce the power that the Splitfires did. And now after 90,000 miles, I just changed from my +2s(which were still in fine shape, considering they had 90,000 on them) to +4s.
The multi-electrode plugs definitely provide for a smoother running engine, based on my experience, not my opinion. As for power, Bosch didn't make the noticeable difference like the Splitfires did.
As for how they perform in our V8s, I've only run the regular Bosch Platinums--but for about for 90,000 miles now. The engine still runs very strong. I haven't tried any of the multi-electrodes or the Rapid Fires in it yet, but that's my plan.
And as for the pix on above posts, cutting back the electrode makes for a wider gap and a longer spark, hence providing a bigger, longer explosion and a more complete burning of the fuel giving the engine more punch. That's nothing new. That's why racers do it. And that's what the theory is behind these "ready-made" plugs. And as I said, from my experience with small engines, they definitely do. And they should in a larger engine, too.
But everyone's set-ups are different, so every engine is different. There'll never be one product that works perfectly in every situation. That's why the "fine print" says something like, "depending on the application."
I only know what I've tried. And I'm pleased enough to try one of the performance plugs in my Formula very soon. I'd like to go with the Splitfires, but I need a plug that I can keep in, well, forever, at this point in my car's life, lol--especially since they're such a pain to change! So I'll probably go platinum.
I think Autolite now makes "race" plugs, that have the electrodes already cut back, right out of the box. For the lazy people (like me). I've been curious to try those expensive Iridium plugs...but I don't like those itty bitty electrodes, as cool as they are.....
