Aaron R.

I recently discovered the inner tie rods on my 1985 Camaro were completely worn out. SO worn out and sloppy that it was literally dangerous to drive (they could break loose at any time). I got to researching tie rods with metal sockets vs polymer sockets. This socket is the surface on which the ball stud swivels inside the joint of the tie rod (a ball and socket joint). Common sense tells me that polymer plastic is probably not going to be as long lasting as steel, but I like to challenge assumptions and did some research. I found a lot of discussion on it, including this video about ball joints:

The video kind of triggered me, because the goober uses buzz words like "less maintenance" and "latest materials in engineering" versus "old technology" and how some people still foolishly believe that metal-on-metal ***** and sockets are better than newer technology engineered with polymer ***** and sockets. He even went so far as to say this old technology is "not a smart choice for modern cars and trucks". I believe sealed units with plastic parts have their place, but when someone pitches that as superior technology I get skeptical. The premise is this: old ideas= bad, new ideas= good. I reject this thought process as ridiculous and fundamentally flawed. I saw this recently on these forums where some other goober was talking about how the new(ish) hydraulic assist designs of transmission clutch systems on our cars were so vastly superior to that old technology (mechanical linkage) that he converted his mechanical to hydraulic and threw the old stuff in the trash because it was beneath him to use anything that might be considered the old way of doing things. I understand someone having a personal preference, but you cannot reason with people who just refuse to see beyond their own limited experience.

I decided to replace my tie rods using a mix of metal-on-metal and polymer with parts regularly available through local parts stores (so I could take advantage of a lifetime warranty). AutoZone only stocked their Duralast brand and the listing didn't say what type of materials were used in the ball and socket so I skipped them and went to O'Reilly's whose website listed those details. I bought their MasterPro brand and their Precision Chassis brand (both inner and outer to replace all at once). The two Precision brand tie rods I installed on the passenger side and the MasterPro brand I installed on the driver side. I had originally intended to compare the service life of each side over the next 10-15 years, but that plan was affected some when I realized the MasterPro inner tie rod was the only one of the four tie rods that actually used a metal-on-metal socket. The other three were metal ball on polymer socket. All of them were made in China and all came with grease zerks. I noticed the MasterPro items came with boots that were essentially sealed tight using a metal clip. I like this design better as it suggests less chance of dirt and water getting into the joint. When pumped full of grease the sealed rubber boot also keeps pressing that grease into the ball joint.

Looking back on it I should have just removed my old tie rods before buying new ones. As soon as I removed the old ones I discovered which was better ("old" technology of metal-on-metal or "latest materials" using polymer). Below you will see pictures I took of the joints opened up. Both inner tie rods were completely trashed and dangerous. This was because those used a polymer (plastic) socket and the plastic had completely disintegrated, showing up as shards of plastic in the picture. The outer tie rods were metal-on-metal joints and still stiff/tight and actually did not need replacing at all. The outer tie rods were Problem Solver brand (made by Moog). The inner tie rods were also probably Moog brand due to some markings I found, but they were NOT labeled Problem Solver.

Now I don't actually know if the inner tie rods were maybe older than the outer tie rods. I checked through my records and previous owner records and couldn't find anything on any being replaced. I am inclined to think they were all replaced at the same time (due to looking about the same overall), but it IS possible one set was newer. This doesn't change my opinion though. The metal-on-metal joints would not fall apart and crumble in a catastrophic manner like the plastic did. At least my new parts came with lifetime warranty, so when the plastic fails I'll just put new parts back on for free. I would still prefer the all steel variety and will definitely be shopping for that on all my vehicles from now on.


Summary: Based on the examination of my old tie rods I recommend the Moog Problem Solver brand. Moog probably makes other tie rods with plastic bushings, but they seem to have recognized the problem with this and pitch their Problem Solver line to the rest of us who know better. The Moog Problem Solver outer tie rods that I removed with at least 50,000 miles on them were still just as solid and tight as the brand new replacements. Of course nothing lasts forever but we all want parts to last as long as possible. Here is a link, although I have not confirmed this part number is correct for the Thirdgen Camaro:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...t/model/camaro


Pic #1: Lineup of new inner and outer tie rods
Pic #2: Old tie rods compared. Top one is an outer tie rod (Problem Solver) with metal-on-metal socket. Still solid and functioning as good as new. Bottom tie rod is the inner that was worn out. The red plastic socket material is completely broken apart.
Pic #3: Inner tie rod with pieces of plastic removed. Metal ball is in good shape, plastic socket material spread out on table.


Lineup of new tie rods

Top tie rod: metal socket Bottom: plastic socket

Plastic socket disintegrated

Komet

That video is bogus because he's pushing a product with an obvious bias. However, I also agree with him in the sense that maintenance free is 'better for the customer', because the vast majority of consumers want their cars to be maintenance free appliances, and lube techs are generally the most ignorant wrench turners available, so you're cutting the potential for disaster out of the equation. Not to mention no maintenance = quicker turnaround time = more money for the shop.

It makes complete sense to me that the all metal solution is the longest lasting, with the caveat that it's actually serviced regularly. For me, it's gonna be all metal every time no matter the cost, but I service my own stuff.

A quick search of the usual parts shops seems like Moog is the only premium name in town. Are there other / even better options?

soulbounder

I've heard Proforged makes good stuff. They are now owned by Holley.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Moog went off a cliff recently. Just another line of Chinese crap now, but a ton of stuff already out there on shelves is the older quality Moog parts, just luck of the draw.

DrPockets

I keep reading this but I recently replaced all of my tie rods, 3 with Moog problem solvers (made in US) and 1 with AC Delco (made in China) and I can't speak to the long term durability of either part at this point, but just based on handling them while installing, the AC Delco Chinese part seemed to be noticeably higher quality than the American made Moogs.
Not that the Moogs seemed poorly made by any means, but the fit and finish of the AC Delco was just nicer.

Also, I work in an American factory that produces automotive parts and honestly at this point I think you'd actually have a better chance of a higher quality part by purchasing foreign made, unfortunately.

Aaron R.

It doesn't surprise me to hear that about American factory. While I am all for giving American companies the business and actually dont mind paying more for it, I too have noticed that for decades now American goods are often inferior. For the last 20 years I have gone out of my way to buy automotive products and most other items made in Taiwan if I can find them from there. Taiwan has consistently outperformed other countries in product quality for some time now. This wasnt always the case but it definitely is now. Next best is usually Mexico. I still avoid Chinese if possible. FJB is already lining their pockets with my tax dollars, no need to go out of my way to fund the communists directly.

LiquidBlue

Thanks for posting you review. Didn't know these details about the different materials used in tie-rod ball joints. assumed all were metal. i tried to find some info on some parts for another car and the manufacturer didn't state what it was.