3gc

I'm going to be prepping and painting my car myself and i have a few questions about the process and what i will need. Do these steps of procedures sound right?

Sand to bare metal
Spray self etching primer
Spray regular primer
Bondo if necissary
Block sand
Spray regular primer again
Wet Sand
Spray a few coats of base
Spray a few layers of Clear
Buff

I recently bought a pretty nice air compressor.



I have access to a DA and will be buying a siphon type spray gun for the primering from harbor freight and also a DevilBliss HVLP gravity feed gun from them also.

Is this the correct self-etching primer i would want to get? And about how much will i need to do the whole car. $100 just for primer seems kinda expensive. Since it's just primer would a cheaper brand be a better choice?PPG Primer or would this be just as good since it's just primer SEM Primer

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

First off I would look at the paint that is on the car now if it is in good shape then I repair the dents starting by sanding with 80 grit D\A and use a good body filler like evercoat rage and prime with PPG K36 primer block the primer with 220 grit and finish with 320 grit wet sanding as for as the rest of the car I would sand with a D\A and 400 grit then look for chips -scratches and fill them with evercoat 2 part putty and block the putty with 180 grit and finish with 320 grit and scuff the reat of the car with a 3M stochbrite

jmiller

Mirror Image is correct. If your car has not been repainted too many times don't strip it to the metal. There is nothing wrong with painting over the factory paint job. If you use a D/A, don't get close to the windows etc. A D/A does not spin in a perfect circle, it is very easy to hit your glass because the disk moves in an oval pattern, you wouldn't believe how many cars I've restored and found D/A scrathes on the windows!!!!!. I would prime the whole car after fixing all the dents and filling all the chips/etc. Use a sanding primer surfacer. I dry sand with 320 grit before applying your 2 step paint (base coat/clear coat). After you have done the final sanding, clean the surface with a good wax/grease remover. Before applying paint wipe the car down with a tack rag. You can get this stuff at the body/paint supply Co.
Good luck!!!!

Sickness91Z28

iTrader: (1)

that's what I would do first....fix all the dents or chips....then primer...

3gc

The paint right now is pretty bad. It has basically no paint on the roof and some sufrace rust spots. Also a lot of deep scratches. Most parts have a few layers of paint and the front bumper is spider webbed.

If i do sand down to metal in a few areas i can't apply bondo right to the metal correct? I need that self etching primer?

jmiller

You can apply bondo to bare metal, but rough it up with a grinder 24 or 36 grit. You are actually better off applying bondo to bare metal. I always grind the paint off before I apply bondo. Also, get yourself a long bow sanding block. They are the same width as a regular sanding block but are about 12-14" long. They have special sandpaper for it. When you fair in the bondo, you will be less likely to screw it up. Use dry 60-80 grit to get it close, then wet sand with 220 grit to prepare for primer.
If it has been painted that many times take your D/A with 60-80 grit and sand into the paint. Or, if you want, you can remove all the paint, but that's a lot of work and not always neccesary.

123jon321

I just bought that same exact compresser about a month ago, primarily to paint.....funny. Anywho, I'm using PPG omni paint, which I've read isn't the best in the world but for the price I guess its worth it. I'm using a DeVillbiss Finishline 3 gun and I'm painting over the old paint. It's coming out pretty good even though I've just started on the ground effects. Here's a pic of the side spoiler piece so you can see what this gun, paint, compresser, etc. produces:



BTW, of course thats before wetsanding & buffing.

3gc

Nice, that looks pretty good. Good to know that what i bought will work, heh. Where did you buy the Omni paint? Someone I know recommended it to me but i couldn't find a place online that carried it, and don't know of any paint suppliers in the area.

I started to sand down my front bumper today, started using the DA, bad idea. There's two small low spots now. I'll do the rest by hand I guess, I got all winter to do this. What kind of body filler is appropriate for urethane?

I'm going to the library in a few minutes to go pick up some books on body work.

johnsjj2

My 91 was painted in California. The paint isnt peeling at all. Its faded a little, and it has the normal wear from 12 yrs. of use. Should this be sanded to metal, due to the spray techniques used in Cal.

jmiller

You will have to find a body/paint supply Co. that is a PPG dealer. OMNI is what I use as well. Stay away from Dupont!!!!
Here is a picture of my 2 camaros, both of them I painted with PPG OMNI. The 67' I painted 4 years ago and my IROC just a month ago.
Get that long sanding block I mentioned earlier!!!

123jon321

I got the paint from a local shop that is a supplier of PPG called "Pick for Paint." I was getting ready to drive a half hour to a place that sells dupont when I found this place that's no more than ten minutes away There's someway on the PPG website that let's you find dealers in your area, thats how I found this shop. Unfortunately their site is a headache to search through and I can't remember how I got to the search part, but is on there somewhere.

3gc

Wow that looks great. It's making me want to paint my car black now . Thanks, I'll take a look at the PPG website, also will probably order the sanding block(eastwood?) and the gun for the primer this weekend. I just went to the library and took out a 700 page book on the principles of auto body refinishing and repainting. It was published in 86 but hopefully it won't be too outdated.

Edit: I found the distributor search on the PPG site. Here's the link if anyone else needs it PPG Distributor Look Up I found about 6 in a 25 mile radius of me.

3gc

I came up with a few more questions. I was looking up some information on paint on the ppg website and saw that it says to topcoat within 24 hours of priming. Is that necessary? I'm going to have to paint peice by peice if i do that.

Also does paint have a short shelf life once the can is opened. I would like to buy a quart of the top coat now, it's only a simple color like gunmetal gray, so the color shouldn't be off. Then another quart when i need more to do other parts.

Sickness91Z28

iTrader: (1)

I used Centari...never had any problems with it....(enamel)

wetsanded and buffed

BTW jmiller, is there something wrong with dupont paints? I'm not trying to start anything...but I'd like to know if there is...

M84Z28

I dont think paint has that short of a shelf life. I think it is good for a few months atleast. I am a fan of BASF and the diamont line of paint, myself. Also if youve gotthe money the longbow block if it is what i am thinking about they make one in an air tool too for faster block sanding.

heavy_chevy29

i used everything PPG with my car.i pulled all the dents out with a stud welder and a slide hammer, and then smoothed them out with putty. after that i sanded the whole car with 220 using a D/A. make sure that you feather all chips and sratches out.i primed it with PPG K36 primer(which requires a catalyst). i put about four coats on the whole car except the bumpers. once the primer in dry take a can of flat black spray can paint and dust some black paint over all the primed spots. then dry sand the primer with a long block and 320 sand paper until the black paint that you dusted on before is gone. you will see if there are any high or low spots or any heavy scratches still. thats what the black paint is for. it may sound a little confusing but you will see what im talking about when you do it. now lightly re-prime and dust with black paint agian. this time you will wet sand it with a long block and 600 sandpaper. again sand untill the black paint is gone. now you are ready to paint. i used PPG base/clear. the base was put on in light dust coats. once you get equal coverage, give another coat or two just to be safe. my car only has 2 coats of clear. thats up to you. if you want more, than feel free to add another coat. i wet sanded my car the day after it was painted. urethane(sp) paints are hard as hell to sand when they are fully cured. i dry sanded it with 1500 with a D/A. then i wet sanded using 2000 and 4000 with a D/A. then i buffed with 3M compound, and followed that up with 3M machine glaze. then i put a hand glaze on it(NOT WAX) and i was on my way home. keep in mind that i work at a bodyshop so i have all the tools that i needed, and a booth to spay the car in. good luck. if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

here is the reflection

3gc

Ok, i went through the PPG site and realized i need a ton of stuff.
K36 Primer
K201 Hardaner
DT860 - Reducer (do you recomend i use it?)
DX814 - Flex additive (how about this?)
DX1791 - Self etching primer (for where i have to sand to bare metal)
DX1792 - Hardener for self etching primer
DX330 - Wash
DPX801 - Universal plastic adhesion promotor (since i'm not going to the plastic through-out the whole bumper when sanding is this necissary?)
DF700 - Body filler
DF708 - Cream Hardener
And a can or two of black spray paint
Tack Rag

I ordered a conventional spray gun for the primer from harbor freight tuesday, i should receive it soon. I'll be ordering a stud welder w/ slide hammer from harbor fieght next week so i can get out a few dents i have.

Also i didn't notice omni paint as an acceptable topcoat for the k36 primer. Would i have to use Deltron and if so how much more expensive is it? And i didn't see anything that said i have to topcoat within 24 hours for the k36 primer either.

This is turning out to be just about as expensive as getting it done

I appreciate teh help from you guys

heavy_chevy29

everything in the autobody industry is expensive. sounds like you are on your way to an awsome paint job. i didn't used any flex, adhesive promoter, or self etching primer. i used the deltron paint. good luck and keep us informed.

Brian Felts

Check out the tech sheets on the PPG, if you use BC/CC you will not need a flex additive. Also take note if using BC/CC Omni it mixes 1 to 1 if you use DBU it mixes 1 part paint to 1 1/2 reducer. You may be able to buy less of the better paint and spend the same money! Use the Omni 161 clear and hardner. It is as good as any and cleans up bad spots well. Check out my web site with my paint projects.


Brian Felts

www.geocities.com/camarosrus2003

3gc

On the tech sheet for k36 it said 5 parts primer to 0-1 part reducer to 1 part hardener.

It also said this "steal and aluminum substrates must have a two step metal treatment wash primer or epoxy primer coating before applying k36", does this means i have to use the self-etching primer on bare mnetal?

Would there be a huge disadvantage to me painting in a portable garage during a new york winter? It won't be heated. Would the drying time just be a lot longer?

jmiller

The problem I had with Dupont was with the clear. I like to paint very wet coats, to the point of almost running. And when applying clear over the basecoat, I do a **** coat then 3 flow coats. Duponts clear turned out milky and cloudy ruining my black paint job. I was using their best 2 step 4 years ago on my 67'. I took the car by the paint supply place and showed them. They told me they would talk to the Dupont REP. He came up with a dumb reason so I repainted the car with PPG OMNI. If you have ever painted a car, you know how much time and materials are involved, and to have this happen I simply would not touch their crap ever again. I'm not a professional painter, but I've painted dozens of cars and hundreds of boats in my life.

Brian Felts

No you can cover bare metal with epoxy primer. Then go with the K36. You should never paint below 50*f, the reducer you use will have to match the temp of the room. I can't imagine that there is anything slower than 50* temp. It may come out ok if you have to do it in the cold but the paint and clears dry time will take so much longer. I would wait until spring or catch one of those sweet days when it warms up and have it ready to spray.


Brian Felts

johnsjj2

So what is the concensus for sanding down a Cali painted car to bare metal? ANy need for it if the paint and clear aren't separating? I am cosidering painting mine next year. I'm trying to see how much work I will have to do.

Brian Felts

No there is no need to strip the car just because it was painted in California. The true problem with the paint is chips and scratches letting water under the paint and it lifting. If there is nothing to let the substrate get wet the paint will not let lose of the metal.



Brian

johnsjj2

Thanks Brian. There are a few chips on the front, but none of it is separating. I guess I got lucky!

Brian Felts

I did a dakota that was chiping like that and sanded away all of the lose paint and used a good spot filler sanded it flat and primed away. You are welcome to view the work at my web page.

www.geocities.com/camarosrus2003



Brian

johnsjj2

That is pretty impressive Brian!! You have done some magnificent work. The one thing I am affraid of is getting the gun set right so the paint looks okay before I wetsand. I have heard many different stories on painting all the plastic parts. Is urethane(sp), better? Do I need any flex agent, is enamel good to use on the plastic parts? What primer do I use for the plastic parts? Whats your opinion.

StealthElephant

May I ask why?

I have no experience with paint, but I am finding it difficult to get information on what paints are good, and what paints are bad. I have been told that PPG and Dupont make decent paint, but I have no idea what lines and kinds. There doesn't seem to be much info anywhere, the only thing I get told is that the bodyshop that paints my car will use what they are familiar with, but how do I know what they use is good?

SuperchargedRS

House of Kolors

Brian Felts

If you use any base coat clear coat systems that PPG offers the tech sheets will tell you that you do not need a flex agent. Enamel is the low end of paint if you use a hardner in it you can sand and buff runs and orange peel. Acrylic urethane is much better it also uses a hardner but will stand up to the elements longer and you can sand and buff. However base coat clear coat is the best by far. The color mixed 1 part paint 1 part reducer (to match the temp) you spray it on to cover (2 to 3 coats) No gloss to build and it is really hard to get runs in it. Then you start with the clear urethane. Goes on pretty easy all you get is gloss from it. (3 to 4 coats) when it dires you can start with some 800 grit and start taking down the problem spots (dont go all the way through the clear and you will be ok) go back over with finer and finer paper until its all gone then buff. If I have no problem spots I go with 1500 to 2000 to get the peel out.


Brian

Brian Felts

StealthElephant; I use only PPG however Dupont has a excellent product BASF Martin Senour and Glasruit. These are all excellent products however they all have their cheaper lines. I think it all comes down to personnal preferance and what you can get in your area.


Brian

johnsjj2

What do you sand the base coat with, before you shoot the clear?

johnsjj2

ANother thing, I am a little confused. Enamel is not a base clear paint? Urethane is, right? If I understand this, you spray your base urethane, sand with something, spray clear urethane, wetsand, buff? Is that the process? Just trying to learn!!

StealthElephant

Yea I'm trying to learn as well.

Basicaly, from what I've been reading, "good" materials for a paintjob are normally 1000-2000$. That is just materials, the cost the bodyshop pays, no labor factored in.

I have no idea what kind of labor I will be able to afford in the end. I'm hoping 5000$ will get me a basecoat/clearcoat job, with good prep and post paint work. Obviously using 2000$ of the top of the line paint is worthless if I can't afford the required preparation and post wetsand/color buffing after.

So I'm trying to figure out what lines PPG/dupont/any good company offers in their higher tier levels of paint. Then I have to figure out what I can afford to have done. Assuming I can afford good enough labor to correctly get the job done, I want to use the best possible materials possible.

I'm still not completely clear on the different kinds of paint.

I was hoping to get a job of this type:

bodywork
prep sand
primer
sealer
2-3 basecoat
2-3 clearcoat
wetsand
color buff/compound

All the urethane/enamel stuff I'm not completely understanding yet.

Is there a book I could get that would explain not just the labor invovled but that explains painting systems? (clear/base etc)

25THRSS

My dad was in the body industry for a number of years and he swears by dupont paint. It's the only thing he will touch.

jmiller

I used dupont religiously from 1965 to 1985, but that was lacquer and centari enamel. I also used Nason, Acme, PPG, and others as well. But when I had this cloudy milky clear happen, I switched and will probably never go back to dupont.

kakarot

If you're applying a 2 stage paint (base/clearcote) you dont want to sand the base before applying the clear. Once the clear is applied and cured it can be sanded and buffed.

Brian Felts

THat is very true.........the tech sheet will tell you that if you sand the base you will have to reshoot the base for that spot again. You will find it hard to mess up the base. It does not need a thick coat so there should be no runs.


Brian