weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

i have a 92 Camaro RS...i want to paint the engine bay but i dont know anything...as of right now theres no engine,no wires,nothing. if someone could please help and point me in the right direction id appreciate it..i have no experience and i wannna do it myself. what do i need to do first..do i sand the bay to bare metal or just clean it with some sort of degreaser...if so what do i use what grit paper or what kind of degreaser...if someone does reply to this..please give me a detailed description...id like to work on it today and tommorrow if possible...as far as tools id need, i would go and buy them..so thats not an issue...but i dont want to do a half-assed job...please help..heres a pic for reference... http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/k...nt=camaro1.jpg

Adrians91Z28

ok .. where to start ..

the painted parts - if it is the stock paint you can just scuff them with a red or gold scuff pad .. if there is built up re-paint jobs then you might want to hit it with some 400 grit and knock it down some

the rusty parts - sand ALL the rust off, down to bare metal .. rust does not stop if you just paint it .. so sand it with any grit .. probably 80 or 180 depending on if its just surface rust or digs in a litle .. then get some etching primer in a can for the bare metal and hit those spots

other than that .. just get some degreaser at your auto parts store in the paint isle and clean everything first .. scuff the painted parts, sand and prime the rusty parts, then paint with whatever you like

you can spray can it with cans from the auto parts store .. but if you want it to look really good you wont beat a basecoat / clearcoat sprayed out of a hvlp gun

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

hey Adrians91Z28... i just have one question... as far as the HVLP gun... what do the specs for the gun need to be? heres two that i found... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=43760 ... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94572 ...does one of those look good? or should i look for something else?

Adrians91Z28

I have no clue how good those guns will spray .. but i'd choose the gravity fed over the siphon feed

the one with the cup on top is the gravity fed .. should be good enough to paint the engine bay .. but I wouldnt paint the car with it

for the car, get someone with a booth and a good sata, 3m, devilbliss, or iwata spray gun (any high dollar gun)

I prefer the Iwatas over the rest, but every painter has there opinions .. the devilbliss cvi guns will spray the base REALLY good but puts the paint out FAST .. the Iwata's are more for show work and spray at a slower and more precise rate, alot better finish too

anyways, for the engine bay .. I'd get that second gun .. if you want a 100% chance of it turning out REALLY good .. buy yourself a devilbliss cvi .. sprays really really good and does base and clear .. (Iwata's either do one or the other) .. just make sure to clean the gun out really good if you spray base and clear with the same gun

the cvi will run about the $300 range .. but it will make those harbor freight guns look like kids toys

the devilbliss cvi is the best "bang for your buck" gun on the market right now .. it sprays really close to the Iwata's, yet its a good big cheaper (iwatas will run anywhere from $450 to $700 a gun, and you need two of them)

just you get what you pay for when it comes to car paint and tools

90_T/AGTA

If you want a real good gun buy a sata jet2000 or 3000 they are pricy though.

Ricco

Just make sure you have enough compressor to run the gun you buy....

1piece@atime

iTrader: (1)

It looks pretty clean for an engine bay ... but it's not near clean enough to even think about paint yet. It has to be wax, dirt and grease free! No options! If you sand dirty paint all you're doing is sanding in the dirt ... or grease. That makes it harder to get out and impossible to paint over. I commend your effort and will give you any help I can, but you are in over your head, and you cannot expect professional results.
But all is not lost. You can do it! You can't rush it! First get it clean ... then post another picture.

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

do you guys know any really informative step by step dvds that'll show me how to go from bare metal to base/clear... i dont want it to turn out like crap...id like it to last for a really long time....

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

i gots a question... i was curious since i have taken the engine bay and underbody down to bare metal.... can i use just a primer out of a spray can for now to put down like 1 or 2 coats to preserve all the work i did... then later shoot base/clear from a professional spray gun without any problem... basically what i sayin is....can i get a show car paint job if i have those 2 layers of rattle can primer already sprayed or will that affect the final look... or would it be better if i just shot primer from a HVLP gun too... dont know if ill get around to sprayin the base and clear before winter.... but i need something for now... or will i have to sand the can primer off and apply it from the gun? hope my question is clear... thanks

picasso_88

Primer is the most important layer of paint so you wanna make sure you do it right the first time. And the paint in those spray cans wont last too long. You can spray bomb it with primer for now, but you will have to sand it all off again and spray some good primer out of a gun later when your ready to shoot base/clear.

92 Rally

if your car is outside were moisture gets to it and you plan on leaving the bay primed for a while i would recommend you use a good primer like picasso said primer is the most important layer

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

its not outside... in the garage... just want something to keep it from developing surface rust.... so if i use can primer i gotta strip it all off down to bare metal again? well then my question would be..... is there something else i can spray that i wouldn't have to strip again and that i could just scuff and spray over it with primer from the gun later?

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

you seem pretty up on this - can you tell me where to get our color blue paint? i need to just hit something until i strip it down and repaint the entire car.

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

and im back again.... id like to know what i could use under the car... initially someone told me to use por-15... but from what i hear its carp... plus its meant to be applied to rusted parts... and theres no rust on my car.... ive made sure of that.... is there anything else like por... that once applied it'll dry and be pretty tough like undercoat or bedliner... but dries to a decently smooth finish.. or something that i could sand and possibly paint over and know that it wont flake or chip off.... isnt there one product that just does the freakin job and isnt bein bad mouthed.... everytime im about to get something i hear its crap... and i take a step backwards ... id like to get this car sealed with something instead of just lookin at the bare metal.... initially i used the rage gold for the seams... but i had to take it back to bare metal... cause i think its too much filler and it'd crack... so i got some seam sealer from 3M and now i need to know what i could use to do this darn job... so let me know... i dont wanna waste my time and all the work ive done just to redo it all again... i dont know what else to say... give me some advice and point me in the right direction.

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

had a quick chat with a guy from a body shop.. he told be i should take it to bare metal... which i did... and for the underbody of the car i should use POR15... i guess he said that a lot of people F up the steps to apply it and thats why i keep seeing people rippin on POR15... but if done right it'll last long as hell and will be durable and flexible... so im thinkin of doin that.... and i also figured that since its self leveling and durable, that i could use it in the engine bay as well.... then spray their clear coat over it.... the body shop guy also said that for the seams i wanna cover up i should use somethin called panel bond... tell me what u guys think... good decision or bad? gimme some input...

NatesZ/28

Any undercoating or 2 part epoxy paint is fine for the underside. The best thing to seal bare metal for the rest of your car is a 2 part epoxt primer ontop of whatever the MFG reccomends for a sanding grit (probably something like 600grit), Put any bondo ontop of the epoxt and then shoot 2 coats of medium or high build primer on top of that. Blocksand your car smooth and then shoot your color and clearcoat.

A good BUDGET gun is the Astro brand. These are very well made copies of the 400 dollar Iwatas and Satas. Are they as good? HELL no, but theyre better than anything that was made 20yrs ago. A high dollar gun wont make you a hero, practice and a reliable gun will though.

Kevin Tetz' 'Paintucation' series is very good. You can find excerpts of it on U-tube. Also, bounce over to the autobody101.com forums and read, read, read. You'll get a good idea of what youre in for

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

i will heed your advice and check the autobody101 forum... but maybe you could elaborate on a few things.... just as an FYI... i want as close to show finish as possible and not doin the outer body yet... when i get to that i will cut no corners and pay a hell of alot more attention to ... now u say... The best thing to seal bare metal for the rest of your car is a 2 part epoxt primer .... y of all the primers out there do you say that? then u say... Put any bondo ontop of the epoxy and then shoot 2 coats of medium or high build primer on top of that... y cant i use the 2 part epoxy primer instead of the high build? just for reference.. here is the car as it stand now.... http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/k...bertweaz/body/ one other thing... is POR-15 good? can i put that in the engine bay..then base and clear it and get a perfect and long lasting result? ive read mixed reviews about POR-15 on the net and just wanna hear of anyone else's experience with that stuff. cause i called them up and spoke with one of the guys... this is what he said i should do.... use marine clean.. then metal ready.... then i could use a seam sealer... i guess they got one that works like their paint... protects the seams from rustin in the future... then use the por-15 paint or whatever that is they got... with that i could stop there as far as the underbody goes.. but if i did the engine bay as well then i could take it one step further and spray a base coat then clear coat.... anyone got any comments on what that dude told me to do? or do u guys think that hes just tryin to sell his product and doesnt give 2 s**ts about what i want my result to be? or if i do what he recommends if ill get my desired results?

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

here is the proper steps:
1. bare metal
2. Sand with 80 grit
3. 2 coat of epoxy primer (I recommend SPI epoxy primer)
4. body filler work
5. epoxy primer on bodywork area
6. 2~3 coat of K2 high build primer (only if the epoxy is less than 7 days old otherwise, scuff and re-epoxy then K2 high build primer)
7. sand with 400~600 grit, and use guide coat
8. bc/cc

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

y epoxy and not self etching? u may have missed this part... but i got seam sealer i wanna put down.... at what time in your order do i apply that stuff? SPI?.... u pick theirs primer just outta preference? or is theirs somehow more supperior to others? okay so metal... 80 grit... 2 coats of epoxy.. then filler... now after the epoxy do i wait for it to dry (a little/ a lot) n sand it... or just start usin filler w/ no sanding? n how long do i wait after the 3rd step (drying time)? y step 5 with the epoxy again and not go from 4 to 6? the high build is what.... kinda like a thicker primer that i can shape a little? also... the other thing i wanna ask is this... lets say i follow the steps.... where else amongst those steps do i sand? obviously metal.. then sand 80 grit... then go straight to the epoxy... after the epoxy but before filler... sand or no? then sand the filler.... with what grit? then epoxy again (sand or not after... what grit?) then high build...then sand... so before base the ideal grit to have been used is 400-600? u should kinda get it.. i need the.. "body work for dummies explanation".... thanks for the halp so far though...

NatesZ/28

Man oh man. Use a period and 2 spaces followed by a capital letter...

Why Epoxy? because epoxy is essentially waterproof. By sealing all the metal with epoxy primer, its going to stay rust free unless you scratch through the primer down to the metal. Then put your body work (Bondo) on top of the scuffed epoxy...this is because Bondo will absorb moisture. Seal the bondo with more epoxy... No Moisture. High Build Primer (AKA sprayable bondo) is so you can blocksand the car perfectly smooth. Another coat of epoxy or sealer to keep everything tight and THEN you shoot color. Thats the show car way to do it...and thats why show winners pay 10G's for a paint job...because theres lots of tedious work involved.

'K2' or '2K' (2 Komponent) means a 2 part sanding primer...no rattle can stuff here. you shouldnt use any single-component (1K) stuff in your body work; 2 or 3 part paints (color, hardner and possibly a reducer), 2 part epoxy primers, 2-part fillers and 2 part glazing putties.

If you want a better than average job, and not to this extreme; then you can do the following

1) Straighten any snaggletoothed metal, weld in patches
2) Epoxy
3) Scuff epoxy and use Bondo Professional or Rage Gold filler
4) Spray rattlecan gloss black enamel over panel, Blocksand, Add more filler, more gloss black, more blocksanding until there are no high and low spots (you should sand most of the filler off by the end of this)
5) Blocksand
6) Seal with 2 coats of epoxy
7) Base
8) Clear
9) Wetsand with 1500 and 2000grit (called color sanding)
10) Buff with cutting compound on a wool pad on a rotary buffer
11) Polish with swirl mark remover on a foam waffle pad on rotary buffer
12) Dont wax for a month, then wax with Meguiars NXT TecWax or something spendy like Pinnacle Souvereign at 60 bucks a jar

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

Okay...lets start from the top.... Epoxy... Waterproof... Got it... So all those things u just listed i should not use.. Right? So let me get this down...

Scuff metal with 80 grit???

1) Epoxy Primer (How many coats???) ( N scuff with what grit paper between coats/ final coat???)

2) Bondo/Filler (What grit on final layer??)

3) Epoxy again (Again... Cost??? Grit??)

4) High build primer (2 part) (How many coats???) (Grit paper between coats/ final coat???)

5) Epoxy again or some other primer sealer... (Coats???) (Grit paper between coats/ final coat???)

6/7) Base and clear....

So those 7 steps.. Sound about right? Thats the show car way to do it...and thats why show winners pay 10G's for a paint job...because theres lots of tedious work involved... Thats understandable. But seein as it the engine bay, id like just to know that it'll be at least a 7 outta 10. When i actually do the outside of the car, that is when i will settle for nothin less than 100%. Will probably even do your 12 step process.... The next couple of questions are important to me now...

*********
Its bare metal now... Check these 2 pics... http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/k...rrent=0001.jpg
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/k...rent=00011.jpg

1) What do i put down in/near/around the seams to protect from rust down the line???? Or will the Epoxy primer serve for that purpose as well????

and...

There are some descent seams

2) In the bigger seams i put what??? Seam sealer??? Bondo/Filler???

Cause as you said... So what do i do in areas that call for a bigger build up??? Filler shouldn't be left in thick layers.. right? Or it'll crack. So how do i address those areas??? Hopefully thats a little easier to read.

NatesZ/28

thats a lot of questions Son LOL

Any sanding should usually be 320 or 400 grit for most products. Dont dry-sand your epoxy primer because it will 'pill' the dust coming off the epoxy will sort of coagulate into little ***** or pills and theyre kinda sticky. so you need to wetsand with a sanding block and plenty of water.

So you should check the MFG of the epoxy primer youre going to use (Napa uses Sherwin Williams paints even though its called martin senour or acme) and see what is reccomended on the Technical Data Sheet for that specific product. Epoxy doesnt fill well, thats what the high build primer or skim coat of bondo is for...to fill all the little low spots and then you sand off everything above the low spots till the panel is level and true. 80 grit is for material removal, you'll need to sand over the 80grit scratches with 120 and 320 (or whatever your epoxy MFG requires. As far as the High Build 2-part primer, Blocksand with 320 is a good start. Any thin spots you'll want to wesand with 400 or 600. as for filling your seams...I dont know if those are deeper than normal or not for a 3rd gen. If theyre too deep (someone else chime in?) you can use a MIG welder to fill in the seam with spotwelds and then use a seam sealer over that; the engine heat and vibration would make packing bondo in there a bad idea.
Do some reading on autobody101...you'll get it

NatesZ/28

Argh Double Post...sorry

weaz4200

iTrader: (2)

got a question for anyone thats used metal ready... I sprayed it on... Can i leave it like that till tomorrow or wipe it off and leave it??? Or will i have to spray it on again tomorrow?