davemel3nzc

Has anyone ever heard of mixing a little base coat in the clear coat before spraying the final coat?

I am getting my sons car painted by a friend, and that is what he wants to do. I have searched the threads here, and have not found any mention of this in all of the paint posts.

Thanks Dave

trocustoms

iTrader: (1)

No, What would be the purpose ?

davemel3nzc

He says it will give it a wetter deeper look.

trocustoms

iTrader: (1)

I would be concerned if it is a metallic, it may model the metallics. I personally have never had to add base to clear to achieve a "deep wet look" Have him paint a test panel.One with and one without. See if you can pick which one is which.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Neither have I. You can do it, but I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference. Test panel is a good idea.

vistageek92

iTrader: (2)

Never heard of that. If you want a deeper look, then careful wet sanding and buffing will achieve that. Tricoat painting is really the best way to get that deep effect.

da.slyboy

iTrader: (1)

The person who painted my truck did such a method. First coat base, second and third base with some clear, last coat clear. The paint was a fine metallic red. Looked good when it was all done. Does seem to give it a little depth.

Mad_IROC-Z

It gives it a 3D kind of effect. Hard for me to explain. Imagine looking through your color and being able to see down to the bottom.

I like to do as mentioned, do your clear coat, sand and clear once again. If you can keep it clean and not run it (it will run easier) then there should be no reason, if done right, to sand and/or hit with a polisher. It will flow out real nice and looks much nicer that color sand and buffing.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

never hear of it unless is pearls on the clear been painting for 5 years ppg certified

Mad_IROC-Z

Started doing Auto Body, frame and paint back in 1985 and have been told I am certifiable.

This is one of the tricks that the paint manufacters don't tell you.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

dont see the point of doing that if the already sell it mix already candys metallics its just a wasted of time, and year today is 2011

Mad_IROC-Z

Candies don't give the same effect. If you can look into the past and not be stuck in 2011, before all the pearls of today there were limits to what you could get. Most common was the paste you would see in red, blue, gold, etc.. It only took a small ammount on the tip of the stir stick to be enough for a gallon or so of clear. The effect it gave was a pearl floating in the clear that you could look through down to the color.
Mixing the paint that you used for the base with the clear keeps it the same color and gives it a layered effect.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

i know wat ur talking about like u said yourself before all the pearls of today in the past they where limits rite? on today's paint there are no limits ,u can do almost anything u can imagine returning into 2011 there's no need of doing that unless ur using crapy products i didn't know having a candy or metallic paint cost the same as a regular base coat color enough said

Mad_IROC-Z

You are correct in one point. That being, enough said.
1985 was not the only year I have been doing this type of thing. I still paint today and use todays products. That makes over 25 years of experience.

I can see though that you will never get it. You're challenged enough with capitalization, punctuation and proper spelling. Stick to painting because they give you pictures for the mixing ratios.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

well sorry sir ... went u go a get a job who gets the job first a person with certification or a person that has " been told I am certifiable" does not matter how many years u have doing something if ur start doing it wrong for the past 25 years .... keep doing what u doing u must have a lot of customers who want paint mix in there clear that's gives u the 3D effect haha never hear of test panels ...

Mad_IROC-Z

I'll get the job. First thing they will see is that I can fill out an application! Second, I would not have lasted 25 years if I had been doing it wrong.
LMFAO!!!
I'm done with you

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

i don't to fill out application lol i have plenty of jobs offer to me because i know what im doing well u have work because ur in ur garage paint like 25 years ago and probably the people that u do work for know less than u lmao ... done with ignorant fools ps we have spray boots now haha ... done and outs

spr250

It's nice how a question about paint turns into a P&*sing contest. Lets solve it now, just because someone is certified, it doesn't mean that they know what they are doing, it just means that they can pass a test. Having experience in something of X amount of time doesn't mean you know what your doing either, although I do recognize the fact that experience is a big factor for quality and being certified means usually the most up to date procedures. So instead of bickering like to high school girls over a boy how about you combine said skills and paint away.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I have heard of this. They use this on musclecar, trucks, overhaulin. all those shows. I know painters that do great paints jobs and do this. Its a great thing to do.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

.

spr250

Ok seriously, dude, not to be mean-too much anyway, you really need to work on grammer and spelling. If I need a car painted, I would not have you do it no matter how well I think you do. Just a note, if your gonna verbally fight with someone, see above mention. Thank you and have a good night.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

done with this crap im not offering to paint for u so u know what whatever its a free country every body cant type and say whatever the want no more posting here

fadedirocz28

I heard of it, was under the impression it had something to do with candy. Heard it made it deeper blah blah.

In houston, "Wet" means 12+ coats of clear i believe lol...

davemel3nzc

Hey, thanks for all of the useful information. Sounds like it can, and has been done. I was just a little worried since I had not ever heard of anyone doing it here on TGO.

Thanks for all of the replies, the information / knowledge that is shared on this site is priceless for those of us that don't work on cars daily.

Thanks again, Dave

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Never tinted the clear eh?

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

There is a million different ways to do something, and a million different results can be achieved.

Using the same materials, I've shot different test panels to get different effects out of a base to see what I liked the most, and I've experimented a bit. Most "certified" guys are trained to match OEM jobs for insurance work.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the way it looks sand it off and reshoot it.

-- Joe

haps

iTrader: (4)

Bravo.

Gumby

Doing what your not suppose to do is how to learn new tricks, some work and some don't.

Guy on another board wasn't going for the effect but his rat rod looked like it was covered in shiny brown leather in the pics.

But it wasn't, he just shot clear over the rust covered body.
And it has not only has lasted but looks great.

Other one I member on them biker build off, the guy burried carbon soot from a miss adjusted torch in clear and it was neat looking effect.

Ive even done goofy stuff myself, using the wrong thinner, hardner and paint together, all 3 didn't match, and when the shop teacher learned what I had done he freaked out like I had mixed up a bomb. Yet the results were nice and left him confused. [in school most stuff was donated or left overs, so it was like a grab bag of stuff]

Thinking outside the box / bowtie

micktroup2

Staying on subject(some people seem to text too much, hence the grammar issues and I think he meant 'spray booths', not 'spray boots', but whatever...) base is the color and should only be laid down in sufficient enough amount to a)cover the primer/sealer and b) impart the necessary color. The clear coat is what gives the paint its 'gloss' and shine. I would think that adding color to it would just diminish the effect of both steps. Color sanding and polishing will bring out the 'depth' and wet look- you want that clear to be 'clear' unless you are doing something like tinting a taillight lens where it would be an appropriate thing to do, given you are not laying down color first. But this is all just my 2 cents...

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

i was not going to post here no more but !!bravo!! .

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

-- Joe

haps

iTrader: (4)

You can get away with tinting the clear with base, but the transparency of the base (i.e. toners) has alot to do with the overall effect. Painting "by the book" is great for collision centers and guys replacing panels on late model cars, but really cool effects can be gained by trying things that aren't supposed to work. Pick up a quart of HOK, Xotic, or from anyone one of the specialty lines from the big guys and give it a go.

To the OP, if you want deeper/wetter, don't tint the clear(there might be some delamination issues in the future depending on brand/technique), instead do the base and clear by the book, wait 3 days, wet 600 the car and clear it again with an over-reduced clear. The result should be wet and flat.

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

I have been painting cars for 25 years and I have never seen anybody put base in clear I have seen people put clear in the final coat of a enamel paint job Im with micktroup2 I would think it would do the opposite since it has a basemaker

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

where u hiding the past days? bravos.. lol

GTA50

Probably gonna' get hammered for this......

But my increasing problem with TGO is that by the time the "pissing matches" are over, the question originally asked is never answered.

So, can we all be a little more constructive? It would really help me with my projects.

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

I would agree I had a guy working for me that went to WyoTech
and the guys at Alsa told them that they were developing a clear and ended up with a finish like leather and thats all cool but when I am painting car I am going with what I know works if you have to respray a car for free thats a bummer here is a link to that paint that look like leather http://alsacorp.com/products/softtouch/softtouch.htm

Mad_IROC-Z

Where have you people been?
When I first started doing this, the shop I worked at had a Ditzler mixing system. One trick that everyone knows (well mostly everyone) was to put paint in the clear when doing a clear coat so not to wait the long time that was set for enamals.
Places like miricale, maaco, earl, add the color to the clear all the time. That is what they call their "intergrated clear coat".

BTW,
I answered the original question. Its not my fault others are oblivious to it and never seen it.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

yup... low budge places....

Mad_IROC-Z

They are not low budget any more.
I stopped at a shop I worked at for over 12 years (I finally had to just quit because I went and opened my own). The guy was doing some mechanical fon an old Oldsmobile for a frined. He told me that the guy had the whole car painted, no body work, at a miricale. Asked me the guess how much. I recall them doing those scratch and shoots for like $299 or so. I guessed $350.... He said they socked the old man for $1500!
Those places need to bring in a certain amount or the corp shuts them down. This is the last miricale in this area. I think with the economy they are socking who ever comes in.

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

yes, experimenting is cool ... gets new ideas and blah blah but in today's economy is very hard to do ur own thing. i do jobs for around 4000 to 5000dlls since there are candys house of kolor paints i got no room for error or i get my a$$ handed to me . if u paint like that is cool , like 60% of the time guys are looking for cheap stuff .ppg prices go up every 6 months like 10% or so . my dad used to paint along time ago u could paint a car for around 600dlls with body work today u can even paint a fender, didn't mean to start a fight we just do our stuff different

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

after all this a forum to help each other out not to trash talk ourselves

white gold 88

I can see where mixing base with your clear would give a candy effect but have you put clear hardner in reduced base coat before? Most base coats will harden or gel up in the gun. So if you put base in clear with hardner you're asking for problems IMO.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

One difference you have to understand is, for starters, you are in the liberal commie capital in the world when it comes to EPA regulations, so between the special paint, special booth, special gun, etc your costs are very high.

In this part of the country, there is a MILLION body shops shooting whatever they want, on whatever they want. Sure, the EPA may have some federal rules but the last time one of those guys poked his nose around these parts they never found the body.

I'm paying about $80 a gallon for base right now, so really, I can afford to experiment and screw up a million times.


A friend of mine just switched to the water based PPG and I know his costs are through the roof. He's losing a lot of business because most people will bring a car to a small shop that can shoot the car for $2000 using a cheaper high voc 2-stage paint, vs $4000-5000, especially when it's a $1500 camaro/mustang/etc.

I know the gallon of hawthorne I have in my garage right now will probably kill you when sprayed but it's cheap and it looks great!


-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I've seen it done, though, i've never seen someone put the same color base in the clear.

The last time I saw it done, I think the car was shot in red, and they added like two capfulls of green to the clear.

-- Joe

white gold 88

I know the pain of costs in the shop. Due to some bad info given from someone in the office, a 18 year old had her 92 Maro towed to the shop for paint. It had been repainted sometime under the delam recall. Dupont sticker in console. Clear was peeling everywhere (not bashing Dupont, all of them had problems then and it's at least 15 years old). Doing estimate with Pathways with new AM weatherstrips was over 5 grand. She was expecting 2. At 42 an hour there was no way we could paint that car there for that price. We're not using water based it's just the way dealerships are, we are anyway.

That's cheap for base. I bought a gallon, or two quarts of silver and two of purple, for 110 in Omni. Used Omni 282 clear that had been on shelf for 5 years and it worked good! I'm not even buffing that one. Very little trash even with my 20 inch box fan vent system at home. LOL

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

rite on the dot joe . i have a gallon of ppg vibrance candy red for sale if any if interested lol

Gumby

And why Im still using $30-$40 a gal paint.

Looked good enough on 50-70s hotrods to get in mags, good enough for me

http://www.paintforcars.com/
Auto Paint starting at just $35 a gallon!
You'll find Car Paint such as Acrylic Enamels, Acrylic Lacquers, Clear Coat Automotive Paint and Urethane and Acrylic Primers.

-

Most recent paint job on my wagon, I got it from Menards, black Rustolum industrial enamel. All the threads on the net where folks have rolled or brush a car and it came out nice had me consider, well if I spray it right, it has to look even better. Damed if it didn't. Less then $100 to paint a land yacht.

Mad_IROC-Z

It is very possible that the person painting the car, who brought it up to the OP, has done it before and knows what they are doing and what paint to use.

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

I think that would look cool I know PPG has a candy apply red that has base in the clear but it is a intercoat clear that is a clear base not the same as say 2021 clear

1BADZ28SD

iTrader: (4)

thats what im selling lol its the orange base the candy red and then the clear 2021