skinny z

I finally bit the bullet and bought a small cowl hood for the Sport Coupe. I was trying to stay as sleeper as possible ( a personal preference) however the advantages of a functional cold air intake not to mention the increased room for a better air filter housing arrangement outweigh that of looks alone.
Having said that, what I'm looking for are pictures of who's done what to seal the carb to the cowl opening.
I've seen a few products available (trays and gasketed filter housings) and will post up pictures when I get the chance.

novaderrik

i've seen people make a simple air box on the bottom of the hood with a piece of flat aluminum riveted to the hood bracing, with a 16" or so hole for the air cleaner to poke thru.. on the carb side, if you can find a 16" aluminum pie pan (they are out there- hard to find, but out there) you can cut out a 14" hole in the middle and attach it to the bottom of the air cleaner, with some foam of some sort to seal the gap between the top of the pan and the hood.. you could also use a 16" pizza pan and make sides for it, or just use really thick foam to seal it.

also, cut as much of that mesh out of the back of the hood as you can..

Damon

Also check out products from Ramairbox.com

It's not bolt-on, obviously, will require fitment in your car but it'll get you a lot further down the road than starting from scratch.

skinny z

I've thought of that and done a calculation of the actual open space provided by the 100+ holes. It IS a little on the small side.

skinny z

I've checked out their products before and have a cowl hood unit selected fromn their inventory. I'll post up a pic later.
Interestingly, I've been to the owners home on one occasion looking for parts for a Monte Carlo that I was working on with a fellow racer. Their shop is only 90 minutes from where I live so chances are good that I'll make a return trip and trial fit what he has before I buy anything.

skinny z

A couple of looks at the underside of the AMD hood.

skinny z

A found a couple of options for a decent carb seal.


The All Star pan I think is intended for the oval track crowd and a hood that doesn't have a sheet metal frame and the circular opening that my hood has.
The Ram Air part looks pretty good. It's made up of several components though and requires an seperate pan that has the needed drop so the gasket seals correctly.
If I could find the foam/rubber seal, I'd build this part myself. I have plenty of air filter cases kicking around.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Looks like the same hood I have, if not very similar. If it is, you're going to find out that the air cleaner will be way off to one side of the hole.

Since I'm running a blower, my 14" AC sits all the way inside....I had to trim off the passenger side edge of the hole. The engine does not sit perfectly centered like the hole in the hood is cut. They all sit off slightly to the passenger side to make room for the steering box.

skinny z

Interesting point. That's something I had noticed when I cut a hole in an old steel hood I had. There's more than an inch of offset if I recall correctly.
More research is needed I guess.

novaderrik

another option: look up how they did the big block Vettes in the late 60's.. the air filter element was up in the hood, and sealed against a pan that was mounted to the carb..

bestracing

You don't need a dropped base and I would not recommend it since you now have plenty of room now. I've seen basic lower carb pans that are designed for scoops either forward or cowl style. They are square and you trim the upper lip to fit close to the hood and then you put the rubber trim molding on the lip to seal it to the underside of the hood.

These guys make about anything you would need for molding--> http://www.trimlok.com/

Years back I had a L-88 cowl hood on my 72 and I didn't seal the base up to the hood but with a 3" filter it stuck up into the cowl and it did lower the intake air temps over the stock air cleaner which was open to the engine compartment, no cool air snorkel like the 3rd gens have. Sealing it is a better option if you have the time and ability to do it. I didn't have the car long enough to seal mine up.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Yep, that hole is centered on the hood, but our engines are not centered.

The Jongbloed hood is made to seal and it does right.

You can get Foam from Moroso to seal.

skinny z

Just downloaded the trimlok catalog. Looks interesting.

skinny z

I checked out Moroso. I didn't know they made half of what's on-line but I didn't see any foam seal. They show it as a part included in their air pan kits, bit no individual listing. The 1 1/2" x 4" x 60" piece would be ideal if I could get it seperately.

Edit: Found it. Looks like I'll build my own air pan kit.
This is what I like about 3rdgen.org. Ask a question, get answers. Keep it coming and pics appreciated.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

I'm interested in what you come up with! I'm doing something with mine, but as I said, my air cleaner is already fully inside the cowl pretty much ...

skinny z

I've mocked up my new carb with my old dropped base 3" tall filter element and it's into the cowl just a fraction at the front . Sort of what I expected from the kind of contact it made with the old hood. If I choose a filter base that isn't dropped then it'll fit right up into the cowling as described. Add to that a 4" tall element and I'm well inside.
Yes, it's obvious that the round cowl opening is off centre from the carb base although it looks as though a 14" diameter filter should just pass by without any mods needed to the sheetmetal. I have an inspection camera I can sneak under the closed hood for a better look.
It'll be a few weeks before I get around to assembling anything. I'm commited to other projects until spring so I'm collecting parts (lots of parts) and will squeeze them all together later.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

If I were you, I'd borrow a 14" air cleaner from someone and try it before you buy one...I am 99% sure you'll end up trimming the PS of the hole. My hood wouldn't even close till I did. I'm already using a drop base, so only thing I could do is go with a smaller diameter one....not too many of those in a drop base.....like searching for hen's teeth...

skinny z

I have the air filter assembly from the old set up. Several bases to choose from too so I'll be able to mock things up pretty well. I hope there's no trimming of the hood. If there is, I'll find an alternative. I should be able to come up with something.

Edit: If push comes to shove and trimming the hood sheetmetal is necessary, then I'd try a K&N 11" x 5" custom assembly. The 11" diameter should easily clear the hood and there should be enough height to accomodate the 5" tall element. (The extra height would compensate for the reduced diameter and the loss of filter area.)
The base of the filter unit could be enlarged by way of larger (circular) disc riveted to it the same as the Ram Air box piece has. The foam then attached to the extended base which would seal against the hood.
Still working on it.

bestracing

That's the way to do it with the 14" one as well. I don't care for most foam pieces because they are not sealed, you can actually hold it to your mouth and blow through them and they degrade over time due to UV and heat exposure. I'm not familiar with Moroso's product so I can't comment on it.

I was thinking about this more and thought that if you make your own like above and you add a lip that extends from the base up to about 1" from the hood then use a section of a rear hatch seal to go around the base to seal it up. I'm sure you can find one at a bone yard to piece out or from someone parting out an f-body. To increase the gap between the hood and base you could even install a seal on the hood to meet the seal on the base.....

redneckjoe

i ran into the same problem with the motor not being centered. same looking hood. i used a moroso 14inch dropped base air cleaner. the method i used to get the motor centered was to jack up the passenger side a little, & use some steel shims under the motor mount.
ive since switched to a glass hood, but im curios to see what you come up with.

skinny z

From the catalog description, it's specifically designed to be used a seal in this application. I'll know better in a couple of weeks as I've put the stuff on order.

When I first installed this engine I found that the drivers side sat a full 1/4" higher than the passenger side. You could see this with a level across the valve covers or across the carb base. I sourced a factory engine mount spacer and it corrected the problem (see picture). This did very little with respect to centering the engine though. It also made the header installation absolutely contact free with the chassis or steering and now the balance of the exhaust, in particular the y-pipe and modified cross-member, has been built with the engine in this exact spot. That means further shims won't be an option. I'll have to offset the filter assembly when and if the need arises.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/97070/10002/-1

skinny z

I found this "cowl induction sealing ring" from Goodmark. If the Moroso foam doesn't work, I may try this. It would certainly clean up the appearence.

skinny z

Thanks. I ordered it last night!

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Thats because a 11" filter with a drop base would not fit over a 4 barrel carb. Take an 11" filter by itself and sit it on top of a holley, and you'll see.

skinny z

I thought the same thing until I sourced this part at K&N.com. Designed to fit a single 4bbl Holley (5 1/8"). It might be the ticket.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

You don't want to "center' the engine. It is offset for a reason, for the driveshaft, and u joints to be in the proper angle.


You found an 11" drop base? Post the part number!

skinny z

60-1190 . Here's the one I'm referring too. Not sure of the drop (personally I'd prefer little or no drop) but it does fit a single 4 bbl.
Go to K&N.com and search "custom assemblies". It's all there. Listed on Summit too.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Thats not a dropbase.

Filter height is 5" and overall height is 6".

Like I said, a dropbase 11" will not work, they don't make them, at least for 5 1/8" neck carbs.

skinny z

That would appear to be the case. Makes sense too. Having said that, now that I have a cowl hood, the need for a dropped base isn't so critical provided I can fit a 5" tall filter in there. I'm not sure if there's 6" of clearence between the carb filter flange and the cowl. I'm thinking maybe not.
I'll figure it out at some point.
(I'm really resisting the tempatation to get out in the shop and start on this. Too many other projects to complete first!)

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I would run a drop base if possible. Dyno tests have shown they can make more power, and it helps with the air flow into the carb.

I'll try not to tempt you anymore though!

I doubt you can fit a 6" filter under there though.

skinny z

I've heard and read info that supports the dropped base claim. At this point I'm considering all options though.
If I can convince myself that it's not really working on a project if I'm just investigating, then I might be able to pull up a couple of pictures with the hood closed using my inspection camera.

bestracing

The drop base and the curvature of the lid on "SOME" filters can direct flow to the carb better. Moroso's 14" drop base is a good example. Installing an air horn on a carb will also improve flow into the carb for larger (taller) filters. The idea is to reduce turbulence and direct the flow with as little turns as possible

You sir, are correct.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Never mentioned an 11" filter...I didn't even know they had those. Whatever size it is, it needs to clear the carb bowls and linkage..and at least in my case, it also has to be a drop base to boot....like a 1.5" drop...I've never found one.

I think the bottom pan outside lip/edge on my current filter might be either level with, or slightly up past the hole in the hood. I'm thinking about taking something like a pizza pan and cutting a 6-7" hole in the center and attaching it to the bottom of the lower lid...then use foam to seal against the underside of the hood when it's closed...or something like that...

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Correct, you did not mention an 11" filter. You simply stated a smaller one then a 14".
The next size down on round filters I see are 11". I have never seen a 12" or a 13" round air filter. Either way, if its smaller the 14" you are Not getting a Dropbase.


This is the biggest drop you can get,

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performan...37891/10002/-1

Remember you gotta have room for linkage and stuff too.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Wow...JEGS must have just started making that one! I'm using the Proform super deep base with a 3" thick element. And believe it or not, the wing nut on top put a small indent ion in the underside of my cowl!! I'm glad it's double paneled there...

The thickness of the element matters a lot too! I doubt the JEGS one would work with a 3" element...

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Its been around for a long time, under circle track parts. A lot of companies "make" it, or put their name on it.

Its low enough you should be able to fit it with a 4" element.

What intake are you running?

I had a BBC with a Victor and a 1050 dominator under my Jongbloed hood.

skinny z

I've taken a few underhood pictures and some screen shots from my inspection camera which clearly show the hard contact between a 14" x 3" filter assembly (using a traditional dropped base of about 1 1/2") and the passenger side cowl opening edge.
I've taped up the surfaces in question for a better image and have a few index marks which help with the reference.
The first two shots show were the index marks are located.

skinny z

The head of the inspection camera can be seen in the foreground of the first photo. It apperas as a small black cylinder in a vertical position. This is the reference to the following photo which is a screen shot of the image on the camera. The "v" shaped index marks are visible in this picture. There is actaully an overlap of the cowl opening onto the air filter lid.




If you can imagine, this is looking straight up from the valve cover.

skinny z

This last picture is from the same perspective as the previous however it's aimed at a different index mark. (sorry I know the images aren't the best).



With the gap that can be seen here, it shows from the preceeding picture that the interfernce is around the right/rear of the opening (from the drivers seat) . About 10 o'clock if you're looking down onto the filter lid from the front of the car.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Just take a sawzall too it!

The Jongbloed hoods were actually designed right, and are offset to match. The hole in them are 16" wich gives plenty of room for a 14" filter.

skinny z

Is that also known as a Sunoco hood?

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Thats the one.

skinny z

I was really interested in that hood however this steel cowl unit was bargain priced for a Canadian shopper like me. (We're forced to pay through the nose for goods shipped from the US).
Truthfully the hood I have isn't exactly the cowl styling I was looking for either. I like the cowl shape that came as original equipment on the 1st gen Camaros. It was even in height from front to back , no taper like my hood has, and there was a small overhang at the cowl that provided a nice touch.
Nevertheless, I've got this one and now I'm going to work through sealing it up.
I have enough parts here that I call build either some kind of offset base (similar to the K&N part) or a combination of 11" components and a custom tray to support the sealing foam.
So much for not being tempted into working on it.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Well, that's exactly the area mine was hitting...

I ended up taking a cutoff wheel to it. That was after I had tried offset AC bases and the like. Aside from the total idiotic placement of the air cleaner hole on the hood, it been great. I couldn't ask for a better fit and looks great after my car was painted -it's held up great.

This whole post just brings back memories. Good luck with it!

plum92_camaro

Are there any differences between the jongbloed hood and the Sunoco hood? Are both undersides offset for our offcenter air cleaners? This is becoming my new favorite hood and I want to be sure what I'm getting into before I buy one.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Same hood different name. Jongbloed is the guys last name that designed the hood.

He tried to get GM to offer it over the counter, it was to be used on the Sunoco Race cars.

Be carefull who you get it from, there are some subpar makers, infact I don't know if anyone is making a good one these days, I got mine from G&T Fiberglass before they went south.

skinny z

My previous searches yielded the following pictures. There appear to be obvious differences however I've never seen either hood in person. It's difficult to tell as the photos aren't from the same perspective.
As for the offset, Johnny Blaze reports that the offset is built into his. I can't comment on the Sunoco branded version.

Edit. From the post preceeding this, it sounds like they're one in the same.
Jongbloed is listed on Spohn's website. The Sunoco hood is listed at Hawk's.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Yep, and both are probably getting them from the same source.

bestracing

To do that you would have to get the Cowl scoop from a place like Harwood and mount it to a steel hood. The only thing with that is I don't know how well the bonding and filler holds up over time. I had done tis with a L-88 scoop on a 72 Camaro and I had cracks form after a couple of years on the back corners. The car wasn't garaged and saw all kinds of weather also. I've seen better installations covered in Hot Rod now and with the developments in better body fillers I would believe it would be much better now.