kramerdad7

hey everybody i just have a few questions i happen to own a 87 gta vert that was done by asc i actually recieved the car as an early college graduation gift, and it has been in storage for the last 4 years, and i finally pulled it out this year to start getting it road ready, started right up after being on the charger for a half an hour, and im just about done redoing the interior with new carpet, custom embroiberd gta seats, and stuff like that it does have the digital dash which the trip computer part turns on for like 10 seconds when the car starts then goes out, all the rest of the gauges work fine, so i was wondering if i purchased a new dash if i could just replace that part or would ihave to replace the whole thing, it also does have a power top, but there is a motor that goes under the tonneau that acutally pulls the top down on to the tonneau i cant really describe it to well so im hopeing somebody has sort of an idea what im talking about but anyway it is broken and i was wondering if anybody new were i could get another one or find parts for one, and if anybody has any other info about this car that would be cool to i dont know that much about it. ill get pics up soon

thanks guys

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

If it's an ASC vert, anything power related on the top was added afterwards. Please post pictures as I'm sure there are plenty that would like to see what someone did.

Kevin D.

thebman007

Howdy,
Please post pics of the motor and how it bolts to the tonnue, the wiring under the tonnue , and the switch on the rear interior sail panel. I use to install these and wire them up. Your pics will help me remember what was done. This motor is only to pull down the rear last bow and is NOT a power top, it only replaces the cable and pin used on early camaros. You still have to manually fold down the top. When ASC in MI was doing the Firebird conversions this is what was done. I believe your vin number will be a t-top vehicle. If you post it I may have your build sheet especially if it is a 350 car. If this motor is what I think it is it can be converted to any early camaro and firebird but will require some additional parts. Also if there are any part numbers on the motor which you may have to unbolt it to see, please show or list those also.
Hope to see some pics soon.

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

My last year 92 TA doesn't have anything of the sort. Was this something sold as an option through ASC??

Kevin D.

kramerdad7

i really dont know i really dont know that much about the car, i know that it doesnt look like a normal gta the wheels are black lace wheels instead of gold i mean they were painted but i dont know if this was an option of some sort or what but i will post the vin of the car and mabe that will shed some light on things im hoping to get some pictures take of it this weekend so everybody can see it

89raggtopp

Kramer - Are you in Madison, WI? I live in Dane Co and have quite a bit of info on the verts.

thebman007

89raggtopp,
Can you provide some info on the firebird tonnue that has the power motor for the rear bow to screw into?
Wiring diagram, switch location, pics,ect....
Thanks.

89raggtopp

In all of my research, I have never seen a factory or aftermarket power top/motor for the 3rd gens. It would be interesting to see how it is set up/works.

Kramer where do you live?

Pontiac made the crosslace rims in black too. Gold was designated for GTA, match gold trim emblems.

kramerdad7

i actually live in mount horeb, so not to far outside of madison, the car is in the garage right now until i get some time to work on it actually just finish the interior then this spring i am going to repaint it, but i actually picked up a digital camera so i will be taking picts very soon and posting as many as possible along with vin number and pictures of tonneu motor and etc. and i was going to say the rims i was looking at them the other day were originally gold but were painted black, so like i said dont know if this was done by pontiac or after the fact, just trying to learn as much about this car as possible i actually like it more than i do my mustang.

89raggtopp

Even smaller world. We moved to Mt Horeb last winter, Valley View area.

kramerdad7

very cool, yeah i live in the new development out by grundal park, but i finally took some picts of the car and of that little motor i was talking about so here they are along with the vin # it is G2FW21F2HN225613 and the build date is 02/87

911rsq

No pics.......

kramerdad7

ok here we go, my picts were alittle to big so i created another site next to my mustang for my bird, the picts of the convertable top motor tonneu and etc are all on the second page any questions or want me to take other pictures of something just shoot me an email steve_1132@yahoo.com link is to the page



http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2130588/1

911rsq

Here ya go.....

911rsq

From what I can see here, it looks like this motor just pulls the back of the top down onto the tonneau cover. It looks like a pretty standard type of electrical motor. They use a lot of the same motors and just add different "heads" to them, i.e. the aluminum part that holds the cam and screw to pull the top down.

thebman007

911rsq,
You are correct it just pulls the back of the top down onto the tonneau cover. This is definitely a ASC convert conversion car from Livonia Michigan.
This motor was used to replace the cable which was used to replace the rod system. I use to install these back in the day. That pin is a screw pin to go into the motor because there was a problem with the other pin popping out of the tonnue when the top was up and tight. So ASC decided to use the motor instead and made for a tight system. There should also be a switch for the motor on the left rear trim panel above the speaker.
I bevieve this can be put on any vert if you found a motor.

Please ask me any other questions and I will try to help.

gchu

I've never seen anything like that before - I like it! If anyone finds parts or a conversion kit I would definitely be in!

thebman007

Kramerdad7,

Just checked your VIN and you forgot the 1 in front, however as you know, you have a white car with grey interior sold originally in Berlin WI. It was the 3.23 positraction axle, engine oil cooler, LB9 5.0 and auto trans. It has the Y84 GTA package, 52P gold wheels from the factory, PW7 16x8 aluminium wheels . and was built at ASC in Michigan.
I have your car on record.

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

So, did they just put it in for people that had a problem with the pin popping? I'm just trying to figure out why

1) this isn't more common on the board (almost no one has seen it)
2) If it's an improvement on the cable system, why didn't my 92 have one? I can't see them 'improving' it after they finished all the cars, and I can't see them reverting back to a 'bad' design.

Thanks for any insights you have. Perhaps it was only in one conversion house?

Kevin D.

89raggtopp

Steve - I wouldn't mind looking at your car sometime.


Bman - What info do you have on ASC firebirds?
Here's my vin 1G2FW2189KL231686.

Thanks

kramerdad7

yeah definilty come and check it out, just let me know when you have some free time and mabe we can arrange something..

kramerdad7

the bman007\




is there any possible way i can get a copy of the build sheet for the car?

911rsq

What intrests me most is the statement "i have your car on record" ???? Do you have copys of ASC records? or what record do you have a copy of on his car ??????

thebman007

911rsq,
Having worked there, at the time I kept a notebook with all the VIN numbers as they came down the line so I could log what happened that day at ASC in Livonia. I have moved and can't find that notebook. I also decided to collect factory build sheets from the cars with 350's, GTA's, 5-speed cars, export cars for fun because we got rid of the paperwork in the car when we cleaned it out for shipping. I have located about 20-30 build sheets but I had more just can't find them or they got pitched from the move. So I just happened to have his original build sheet for his car on pink paper and will make a copy and send it to him.
That's why I know about the power pulldown motor for the tonnue and the revisions to the cable and rod systems. The motor was wired from the rear of the car at the pulldown motor where there was constant power. I believe it was a orange wire. I will have to look for my wiring diagram.
Also cars converted at ASC MI had to have the hatch release so the tonnue could use that switch. We disconnected the hatch release which was the trunk so the trunk and tonnue couldn't be opened at the same time. Some cars we actually installed the release switch when it didn't have one, I still have some. It was crazy what we would do to get a car built and off the final line, Lots of custom work to get the parts to work and for fit and finish.

911rsq

I would be interested in a couple of those tonneau release switches that you still have.....

I bought a couple of parts from a guy on ebay that said he worked there too. i will try to find his name and post it up. you may know him......

911rsq

Ahhhhhh.........
It was you !!!!!!!!

gchu

I would be interested in a tonneau release switch as well if you have any available. You can send me an email to: gchu@att.net and we can work out the details.

89raggtopp

Bman - There have been a lot of reports on how many 89 Pontiacs with 5.7L were converted by ASC. I have ASC order sheets from 89 detailing the last 6 digits of the vins (sequence #), build date, color of top, and dealership names. Pontiac and PHS refuse to help or even look at the data. I take that back PHS requested the info, go it and will not return my e-mails except to say they have it. Do you have any additional info on the 89 's converted. Any info would be appreciated. bnc72096@charter.net.

Thanks,
Brent

kramerdad7

thebmann007

how many of these cars were actually done into a convertable in this year is this car kinda rare for the year it is??

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

Has anyone found these motors for sale? The car I bought appears to be missing the motor. Seems odd that someone would remove such a rare part when it breaks and just leave it out of the car...

Thanks for any help you guys can offer!

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

Anybody? Finding this stuff for my car is going to be harder than I thought!

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

(sigh) looks like I'm going to have to convert my car from the electric motor release to the cable/handle system somehow. I don't see any motors for sale, not even bad ones...

911rsq

If you already have this option, look at different types of small electrical motors that might bolt up, or at least ones that are the same amperage and power ratings, then make something to bolt them up. Most electrical/mechanical items like this use a somewhat standard electric motor that is bolted/screwed to something else that actually makes it specific. If you already have everything, but just have a bad motor, then all you need to replace is the motor. It should be pretty simple, just check out this pic......

911rsq

It's not the motor that makes this so different, it's the aluminum adapter and gearing that makes it do it's job. Depending on where you are from, you could probably even go to an electrical motor store and have them rebuild it. Try someplace that only rebuilds electrical motors and things like that. If not, try a place that only does starters and alternators. I am sure they would be able to at least point you in the right direction or maybe even be able to help you out.......

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

If I had the motor, I would pay anything to have it rewound or replaced. But I don't have it or any of the gears, parts, etc. So I am starting from scratch...

911rsq

So your car had the electric motor, but everything is missing ??????

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

Exactly - the previous owner said his brother took out the motor to 'fix it', and then lost it. Duh.

That's my dilemma. I can find the manual parts for sale, just trying to decide if that the way I have to go, because I'd like to keep the car the way it is supposed to be... (which is, I suppose, would REALLY be with t-tops, right?)

911rsq

From everything I've read, the electric driven motor was an after thought by ASC and is only on a few cars because they saw a flaw with thier previous design, so if you want it to be the way it was "supposed" to be, then manual is it.......
If you want it to be the way it "was" then you're gonna have to find one with the electric motor and snag it....

'87 IROC VERT

iTrader: (4)

thanks, 911 - I guess I will get the manual set up and go to it.

Oddly, I finally got my power trunk pull down working this past weekend w/ a new (used) motor, but now when I hit the pop button on the console, I hear a snap and the only thing that pops is the fuse that powers the radio, power antenna and interior light. Was this thing somehow wired diferently by ASC, or do I simply have a short somewhere?

Thanks!

kramerdad7

hey guys i appreiciate all the info, i have actually found somebody who is going to machine me the parts i need to get that motor back into place, so im pretty exitced about that, and yeah i have started working on it as well trying to get it back together here and there, does anybody know the production number of this car?? like how many were made and whatnot? just curious.. also if somebody hears about that weather stripping kit from hawks shoot me an email cause im gonna need one..


and for 89raggtopp if you get some time and still want to see the car, either drop me a line or give me a shout 608-213-9785 i did actually see you driving yours on midvale verona rd, before it snowed, and granted i was on the other side of the highway your car looked pretty sweet..and i hope be joining you on the road this spring!

oh yeah also are all of the clip that hold the panels the same size, like are the ones in the doors the same size that hold up the speaker panals?? my sister didnt save them when she ripped out the old interior so now i have to try and figured that out, there was a few left in the door, but im wondering if those are the same ones all the way around..


thanks again

steve

88ragtop

My radio and interior light fuse was blowing also. I had to disconnect the cigar lighter to fix the problem.

kramer87gta

iTrader: (1)

Hey Guys, im resurrecting this thread a little being i changed my name to something a little more fitting, and also im looking to see if anyone can help me do a little more research on this car, i was allready on gtasourcepage and they direceted me over to you guys, but a little more info on the car, i know the vin is listed above it does have the digital dash, 305 tpi auto, but the only thing i cant figure out what it means is there is a emblem on the radio pod that says special edition 0412 i was curious if anybody knows what this means, and if anybody knew some good companies to get some resto parts, being im in that process..

okfoz

I believe the Special Edition may have had to do with that since Pontiac did not officialy authenticate the cars, due to several reasons which are really unknown, that your car was converted by ASC for a dealership prior to delivery.

In 1989 I know that the cars were purchased by a dealership then drop shipped to ASC to be converted, then the car was shipped to the dealership to be sold as new. I would assume that this was also the case for 1987 but am not sure. The Special edition badge was also applied to the 1987 Camaros which were not offical camaros. Since ASC did most of GM's convertible conversions (C&C being the other big player) the car would be identical to a production model except for the VIN. ASC reported only 173 Firebird convertibles in 1987, so the special edition number would probably encompass the camaro conversions as well for that year. One special thing about the 1986 & 1987 cars is the extra piece which is on top of the back of doors.

I hope the theBman007 finds his notebook, that wpould be so awesome to have the information it would really open up the research on these cars.

JOhn

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

I had a ASC 87 TA convt with the motor pull down....Where can I source one of those pins because I know those had threads where the regular ones were solid with no groves. Thanks

86T/A_Ram_Air

7 years later....

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

Yep and I still have the cars...still looking for pull down motor mounted on toneau cover. I'll find one

okfoz

IT blows my mind... People will ask a question, something that has been asked before, And someone always seems to chime in that this has been asked before and give instructions on how to "search" ...

THEN you have people that actually use the search, and when they post to an old thread, they get accused of raising old threads from the dead...

I think I might start deleting statements that begrudge people for A) Ask a question and B) Bringing up old threads.

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

Thanks John, yes I don't understand that either and I'm still trying to figure out power pull down motors so everybody that wants one can have one after I figure out what motor was used and the pin with grooves and the part on toneau cover. Until I see one I've been looking at other ASC convertibles in hope of finding a similar setup. I've also looked at other convertibles like Mercedes & BMW. I was also trying to figure how to use a BMW E36 convertible power top set up to fit it to a 3RD GEN F BODY ASC convertible, using the same set up and just pushing one button to lower and raise the top. Thanks as always any help is appreciated.

I also came across the convertible pictures dealers placed in newspapers to advertise ASC convertible firebirds...very neat to say the least.

Soon going to be opening a business selling muscle cars, parts, repairing & modifying 3RD GENs and specializing in ASC convertible Firebirds & Camaros...also Special EDT TAs & Turbo cars

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

Like this...I've had a few BMW E36 convertibles

TRANSAM82-92

iTrader: (1)

And if you're wondering why 3RD GENs aren't power top cars...GM...too much $$$...read this
The 240sx contract led to another Nissan conversion and from 1993-1996 ASC built the 300ZX convertible, and even developed a retractable hardtop version for the automaker, which was shown at the 1991 Geneva Auto Salon, but they weren’t interested in the design. However their competitor, Mitsubishi, was and from 1995-1997 ASC built the limited production 3000 GT Spyder at their Rancho Dominguez assembly plant.

A little over 1,000 (1,034) Mitsubishi 3000 GT Spyders were built at ASC’s Rancho Dominguez assembly plant from 1995-1997. As did Nissan on the 240 and 300 ZX, Mitsubishi installed some of the needed bracing and unibody supports in Japan prior to shipment to ASC, however, the car was sent with its coupe roof intact.

ASC removed the roof with a plasma cutter and in its place installed a Mike Alexander-engineered retractable SMC (sheet-molded-compound) hardtop assembly which was operated by two computer controlled hydraulic cylinders located in the trunk. It took a short 35 seconds to completely lower the top whose computer included software that halted the operation if the top met a foreign object such as a human head, hand, golf club or piece of luggage.

The SMC top, tonneau cover and its related hydraulic and electrical components added 280lbs to the weight of a FWD 3000 GT coupe and was significantly lighter and simpler than the system used by Mercedes-Benz on their SL roadster. The 3000 GT was available in both front-wheel-drive and Mitsubishi’s VR4 all-wheel-drive system, and when fully optioned stickered for $65,000.

That $65,000 car was the price of the car and the reason Nissan passed on it because they had already spent millions in engineering of that project and when ASC finally gave them the cost and what they had to sell Nissan 300ZX for...$65,000...well they passed

complete article if you'd like to read it...
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/a/asc/asc.htm