campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Finally have a Third Gen again, I've missed it!

Just picked up the 84 'vert from this thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cama...tible-f-s.html

She's a cool little car that is partially started for me. Its got a "old school" 350 that is making about 300hp, according to the previous owner (haven't gotten a chance to really figure out everything on it.) Drove strong from its home to here, which is about 180 miles. Better yet the motor is a really fresh build, so shouldn't have to mess with it for quite a while.

The body is rough around the edges, but should clean up nicely after a little rust repair and some paint. The top is shredded, but should be good enough that someone can at least get a pattern from it.

The interior is really bad, and I'll likely need to replace everything but the dash.

I'll have my own pics up soon enough as I start tearing out the old interior and checking out the floors from the inside. Till then, there's pics in the thread I linked.

If anyone wants to drop an opinion, currently the car is white, with a worn blue interior and an ugly denim blue top. I want to leave the car white, but aside from that, I'm not sure exactly what I want.

Maybe black interior with black top and red stripes? Red top?

Or maybe white/black/gold? White/black/blue?

Any opinions or pics of 'verts that you like?

okfoz

It should be better in here...

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

Congrats on your purchase and best of luck with her & the restoration.

mister_hudson

iTrader: (3)

Looks like a solid restoration! Keep us posted on the progress!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thanks guys! I've been meaning to get pics up, but its been raining almost non-stop since I got her home, so she's been stuck in the dark garage. I'll get some pics and more details on it as soon as I can!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Ok so first some pics of the car and descriptions:

Rear end of the Vert has some rust, but most of it appears to not go through. Quarterpanels are gonna need some work, but the good news is the floorpans are absolutely solid!


Doors and hood are in primer. Some rust on the fenders, don't know if they are salvageable yet. I hate these flat hoods, Can't wait to find one with the louvers.


Interior is almost a total loss. The dash is good and the center console should be repairable. Gonna have to find new seats, carpet, etc.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

The top of the car is a mess, and I'm gonna need to find someone willing to remake one. So far, all the local upholstery shops have either failed to reply or flat out refused to work at it. Anyone know where to find a good Matrix 3 style top? Lol. Its also an ugly denim blue, which I can't stand. A black top will likely replace it. There's a small crack in the frame, but a bit of welding should take care of it.



This is my favorite part of this car. Its a hand built 350 with around 250 miles on it. The former owner said it was an old school build with an older 350 block, and it should be making 300-350 hp, based on the components he made it with. Its complete with headers and a full new exhaust, as well as a rebuilt 700r4.

The motor has a few small bugs, I noticed a few seals that are gonna need pulled off and re-done, and the carb isn't tuned to the engine quite right, but I absolutely love this motor. Its a powerful street motor, yet still has very good manners. I'm never gonna take it to the strip or anything like that, so its really just the right amount of power for what I want.


My next orders of business for it is rust removal, frame strengthening, steering/suspension upgrades, replacing the top and removing and beginning to replace the interior. I'd be thrilled if I had all that done by winter. Likely, money and time will get in the way of that though! In the end, I'm looking for a white car with black accents, maybe a different color in there somewhere. Im still debating a sort of IROC-Z clone, but not sure if that's gonna be plausible or not.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Maybe pick up some swap meet stuff @ SuperChevy????

Best luck & enjoyment in your venture--looking forward to following the thread!!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Today's first start on the rust repair!



Here's what I'm dealing with. It looks deep, but I'm surprised at how thick the metal on the vert is. I'm wondering if GM used a thicker guage metal on the 84's than they did on my last car, a 91 'bird (rest in piece my rust devoured friend). As I started working on it, I also noticed the paint was insanely thick. I'm wondering if Matrix tossed on their own paint over the factory job.



Hours and hours later, later, I've exposed the areas that need attention. I wanted to peel back the paint until I saw no more signs of rust. One thing that the picture before didn't show was dozens of pencil eraser sized spots in the paint where rust was starting. Thankfully, the wire wheel took of the paint and most of the surface rust with it.



Naval jelly is my friend! For those of us who don't have access to sandblasting and are working on small areas at a time, it seems to be one of the best solutions.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Havoc: Super Chevy? When and where? Never heard of it before! (gonna get slapped for that one I bet).

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Lots of severe pitting, but the rust is gone. I'll take care of the pitting on another day, when I'm more in the paint prep stage.



Tons of pitting, but none of the rust went all the way through. I know in this pic it looks like there's still rust just in front of the wheel, but its just shadows and the pitting. I'm gonna need to really work on smoothing that area out, it got it bad.



In primer! I'm sure you can see some spots where the old paint meets the primer, and there's still all the pitting. I just wanted to get a coat of rust resistant primer on there, since I'm not sure when I'm gonna get to really paint prepping and painting. Last thing I wanted was to have to do this all over again! And thats my day, 6 hours later, 1 quarter is rust free!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

So I've decided I'd really like to style the outside like an 85 IROC, with the louvered hood, the less frumpy front bumper, and the ground FX. Hopefully I can get that together fairly cheap.

slimwhitman

Can you forward us the photo of the door jamb label that states it is a Matrix3 convertible? Be sure to protect that label when painting the car. Does the car have any odd M3 badges on it? Matrix3 liked to add badges on the dash, the steering wheel and even a flat hood ornament badge. Don’t know if the Camaros got them.

I would also like to see a few back seat photos with the tonneau cover off.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

The door jamb badge is pretty worn, I dunno if a photo would come out very well, but I'll take one and try to post what it says. Doing some research on the Matrix verts?

I'll toss a pick up with the tonneau cover off too, but be warned, I've already started to deconstruct the interior, so if your looking for something specific, it may not be there.

I've seen no dash badges, but it looks like Matrix did their own paint on the car, complete with a weird stripe pattern. I'm not sure what it originally looked like though, because most of it was either worn off, or had been pulled off and in primer when I got it, so very little of the exterior pattern was intact. Best I can see, it was a multi stripe pattern that went low on the car, down the rockers and around the back of the bumper, as well as one that went down the middle of the front bumper and down the hood. The car was originally a solid white, but looks like it was repainted a cream white, then the stripes added.

The previous owner had a bit of word of mouth history on my car. It was originally from the Evansville, IN area and never left the area. The car was one of two Camaro's received by a local Chevy dealer, then sent away for conversion. Don't know if the dealer ever ordered any other Matrix verts again or not. This specific car was handed down from one family member to another twice, then purchased by the PO. He had it for a few years trying to restore it before running out of time and selling it to me.

Hope that helps. I'll post pics next time I get out to it. Got any Matrix info you wish to share? I've come up pretty bare on anything with them.

okfoz

I have a little information if your interested.

I snagged this off of ebay... The Camaro page is identical except it has a picture of a white camaro (actually a Z28) with a red stripe and it says Camaro Convertible instead of Firebird Convertible on the Back. There is also a pic of the trunk open on the back of the paper on the Right side.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for the info okfoz. Its more than I had for sure. I'm really curious as to the actual numbers of Matrix 3 camaro verts made. I know they aren't all that valuable, but I'm curious as to how many there were, and how many still exist. Know they are rare enough I can't get Matrix 3 specific parts!

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

The rust in that fender is coming from the inside, not the outside. GM put some kind of open cell foam type sealer/adhesive there to bond a reinforcement panel to the outside panel and that's where the moisture gets in. I repaired all that on mine.

slimwhitman

It may be worn, but it is the last bit of documentation your car has about its heritage. Matrix verts might not be worth a ton now, but the market is starting to turn on these custom verts and Matrix cars have a good chance of leading the pack in value with the AutoForms and the Stramans. Save the label.

Research? Yep. I have been gathering data on coach convertibles for several years. I would say for '83-'86, by far the most common F-body conversion is the AutoForm. A clear second most common is the Matrix3.

Finding info has been a challenge, but they had a big business going. I would *estimate* that they built 75-100 F-bodies a year. Almost all of them Camaros.

These are the Matrix conversions I have found to date:
'85 Firebird
'84,85,86 Camaro
'85,86 Monte Carlo
'83,84 Celica
'82,83 Corolla
'83 Subaru GL
I have also found a few '84,85 Nissan Xcab Pickups that they converted to a 4Runner-like SUV.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Definitly don't intend to kill the door jamb badge. Next time I snap pics I'll snap one, and I'll try to print out what it says, because I don't think you'll be able to get it from the pics. I'll be happy to help any research your doing.

Just a random question... any info on the softops themselves? Mine is trashed and a pattern or some sort of guide would rock...

RArnold

Hey campin......in the attachments from okfoz about matrix 3 conversions, the text page lists features and the 2nd item mentions 'reinforced chassis', which is in line with what you saw when you looked under the car......and the picture of the matrix 3 'bird has the same top as your camaro.... if you have tie to go back in the posts in this 'convertibles' section there are numerous mentions and posts about the matrix 3's........

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for pointing that out about the chassis. I still haven't gotten a chance to get under the car and see if those are simple reinforcements or something more like SFC's.

I've got the soft top off the car now, its down to just the convertible frame. The frame is in really good shape, save one crack that I should be able to get welded. Just gotta get someone to reproduce that top for me, which is proving harder than I thought. Not gonna worry about it too much though till I get all of the custom interior pieces out, so I can have them done all at once.

And sorry to anyone whose following that I haven't updated the thread recently. I've been at a pause while I'm trying to do some planning with it. Also haven't felt like breaking it down anymore in this awesome top down weather! I'll be pulling the interior out pretty soon though.

Strangely I think I'm loosing the water pump. Getting a sound that reminds me of when my firebird wrecked the bearing in the water pump. Gonna have to look into that soon.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

this is a cool project... subscribing!

RArnold

campin, as far as the top goes, unless someone on this website knows for certain that a later year top would fit the '84, I think you'll probably need to find a good old-fashion trim shop, that stitched up stuff from scratch. Might be a bit pricey. But I dont think the average headliner/convertible top shop can handle it.....on the other hand you can get one primo top that way.

okfoz

To be honest a good upholstery shop should be able to do it for you... Its a matter of removing the top, cutting the stiches, and then making patterns, then stiching the parts back together...

John

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I've already got the top removed myself. It comes off really quite easily. My problem is that its difficult to find a good shop around here. I'm about 50 miles from anywhere that might matter (like Indy) and don't know Indy well enough yet to really know who does quality work. I've emailed a few upholstery shops that I found online, but no dice.

I'll get someone to make it soon enough. Just a matter of getting enough time and connections (likely in Indy) to find someone willing to do it.

88GTAvert

I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I like the look of the sport coupe...you dont see them around all that often and its kinda nostalgic...reminds me of the Camaro's my mom and sisters use to drive when I was a kid

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Well I have decided to keep the ground fx off of the car. But uh....

Something about "reminds me of my mother" and "cool muscle car" doesn't seem to mix! LOL

bafwaa2

How can you tell who made your convert? I just bought an 84 it doesnt have any emblems on it. Its a four seater. I read in some of the posts about differences in where the top goes down what might they be?? Thank you

slimwhitman

Please post a few photos and we will try and tell you what you have (please start a new thread!). Be sure to include photos of the back seat area, the latching above the windshield and a few with the top up. We also need to see a photo of the trunk lid (closed).

rover

I have had to have a couple of tops made for mine. A good upholstery shop should be capable. FYI, when you have your top made make sure they get the strips on the inside correct. The last one I had didn't get them quite right and when I would go to put the top down I would have to stop and tuck it in a few times during the process.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

So I gotta apologize for the lack of updates to this thread. I've been a bit short of money and not eager to tear down a working car without the money to put it back together. I've also been absolutely addicted to driving it around lately. While not in the best shape, its perfectly street legal, and its been an absolute blast turning heads around town.

This car absolutely doesn't like cold weather and is basking in the warmer weather. Once I get a few dollars, and a good lead on cheap parts, the project will be in full swing again (which will hopefully be very soon). Till then its going to competing with my daily driver for seat time!

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Hey man I can't blame ya! Even when my 91 Trans Am vert still looked like crap, it was a total blast to drive. Speaking of which, mine's going to the paint shop tomorrow.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I just had a bit of a revelation on my vert. I was driving my Lancer, which has dark gray interior, and complaining how unbearably hot it was. I stopped for a second, and realized I was planning on doing solid black interior in the vert. The vert is basically a summer only car. What possessed me to think that was a good idea? The denim blue in it already gets pretty warm. I also was looking at my lancer, and the tops of the gray seats are badly sun bleached after only 64,000 miles. I can't imagine a top-down car fairing better. This black interior idea is starting to seem like a bad one.

I looked around online, and while fairly uncommon, there are some pretty cool looking white convertibles with tan interior. So the new thought, is tan interior with black accents, still keep the white paint, and go black on the soft top as originally planned. Sound like a solid color combo?

okfoz

I would tend to agree. even a black top can get hot...

I would not think there would be a big difference between the tan interior and the lt gray interior... Even your blue looks more or less pretty light in color, I thought it was gray before you mentioned it...

My Black interior is HOT HOT HOT, especially with leather, its almost unbearable without AC... It looks great for shows, but not as a driver IMHO.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

well the vert has no AC and there aren't really any plans on putting it in either. I'm not a huge fan of the lt gray interior, which is why I thought black. But... what do you think of this interior in the vert?

slimwhitman

Tan looks good. I might add that a cloth interior is MUCH cooler than vinyl or leather. I have a near-black charcoal velour interior in a convertible that is not too hot. Also, I have seen many convertible tops with other colors like blue, tan and white (to match/compliment paint or interior color) and they look excellent.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

The nice thing about the interior I pictured, is I already own it. I put that interior in my old firebird before realizing the rust issues were far beyond my control, and I pulled 90% of it before sending the 'bird to the scrapper.

Any other opinions on the interior? And also, what does everyone else think? Now I'm questioning whether I wanna go with a black top or a tan one!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I pulled out the interior on the Camaro today!!!

I'd put pics up, but it seems I misplaced my memory card for my camera...

I found a few odd things in it. Under the trunk carpet was a dollar store style toy sword from quite a long time ago. I also found a half eaten package of corn nuts under the convertible assembly, which makes me wonder from how long ago its from...

The rust on the floor pan and in the wheel wells is worse than I expected, but I can still deal with it. Definitely gonna have to patch the wheel wells though. The floor pan has a few spots that go all the way through, but none of them are really developed yet. Sorta has a swiss cheese look.

My favorite part though, is all the nasty blue interior is gone. I have to keep a few custom Matrix pieces, but aside from that I'll be happy to see the nasty seats and carpet go to the curb.

bradley23150

iTrader: (10)

That interior would look pretty slick in your vert.

If your keeping the car white, go with a black top.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Bradley. I do intend to keep the car white (I hate the pain in the butt of changing colors). Eventually I'm going to give it the non-base model front end, with the better bumper and the hood with louvers. I intend to have black accents on the outside of it too, so I do agree that maybe the black top is the best.

So... white car, black top, black accents, tan interior with black accents.... Sound right?

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Sweet. Thanks for the input on this guys. I hate second guessing myself after making changes, but the last thing I wanna do is invest in parts and realize it looks wrong.

The coolest part of all this though, is my old Firebird featured what was mostly a tan/black 85 Z28 interior (as pictured above), and I still have most of it. I just need carpet, door seals and some misc. parts to complete the factory part of the interior.

But first... I gotta get the interior metal all fixed up, and that's gonna take some time to do right. This is the stage I screwed up on the Firebird, and I paid for it dearly. Thankfully the vert is in far better shape than the rustbird was! I'll get pics up as soon as I track down my camera's memory card. Sorry to all those who asked for pics of certain things... I'll get to it eventually!

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

OK, finally got my memory card back. Here's some pics!


This is the Matrix ID plate in the doorsill. Someone asked me about it, but I can't remember who.


Here's the tool used to secure the vert top. Again, someone asked about it, but I can't remember. Sorry!

And now, some pics of the car with the carpet out. Floor isn't perfect, but its the best I've ever had:

okfoz

I think a Tan top or a Black top would look fine with a Tan interior...

John

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Cool, thanks for the input. I think the interior is gonna be 2 tone tan/black, using the seats and door panels I have pictured above somewhere. Gonna keep the top black, likely do black carpet, tan plastics, and then sorta play some of the misc interior pieces by ear.

BTW, thanks for all the interest to those who are following this thread. I really appreciate it. I tried getting a firebird restored two years ago, but bit off more than I could chew with rust problems and got pretty discouraged. I'm really serious about this vert, and I'm glad you guys are interested too!

RArnold

that interior that was in your 'bird would look real good in the vert......and a tan top would look great, the fabric type of material, almost fuzzy stuff....

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Definitely using the 'bird's old interior, especially since its technically the interior out of an 85 Z28. Working on selling the parts from my bird that I can't use, so I can fund some parts that I need for the Camaro. Still need new carpet and new seatbelts.

I got the floor uncovered in the Camaro and I need to get to working on the rust, even have all the supplies, but I hurt my shoulder pretty bad at work, so I've gotta wait till it heals a bit before I can get back to rust repair. The project is moving along, but I forgot how many things slow you down!

As for the top, I'm still going back and forth on black vs tan. In the end, I think I'm gonna have to wait till I get the seats and the rest of the interior in, and then my color choice should be easier.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thought I'd drop an update since its been a week or so:

I've been in the middle of the down and dirty rust removal process on the floors. Very few holes, but lots of surface rust. I've spent hours and hours with a cutting wheel, grinder and various wire wheels and chemicals, and still only part way done. It amazes me how much surface rust can add up. I'll take pictures of it once there's actually something new to see.

I'm also questioning my original plan on the exterior, as you might have noticed by my other posts. Its gonna stay white, but I'm seriously thinking about aftermarket hoods. I'd love to give the air filter a little more breathing room, and possibly a hood that blows air right to it, rather than sucking up the hot air from the cramped engine bay. I'm also seriously thinking fiberglass if I can afford it. Contacted Hawks about their ZL1 hood, and its growing on me a lot.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Almost lost the vert last night!!!!

We had some wicked storms last night and a big tree glanced off the side of the garage the Camaro is kept in. Thankfully damage to the garage is minimal and everyone's ok, but when I heard that crack I thought "oh no... my car!"

I guess all car related work is gonna have to stop for a few days, while we clean up the yard. We lost a lot of trees and my neighbor took a direct strike to her house.

Nature itself is even slowing my down... what next?

ZZ42Fast

iTrader: (2)

Looks great but don't do another IROC clone. Your car is unique and should stay that way for history's sake. It would never look like a proper IROC and would ruin it IMO