Looney

Hi I just recently got a 3rd gen car and was wondering what was the average running temp of the car? It usually runs 220-235 is this way too high? thanks

RED86Z28

sounds about right

travis401

iTrader: (1)

In stop and go traffic or open highway?

Looney

about 210-220 just sitting and 220-235 driving

travis401

iTrader: (1)

You might be missing your air dam. Its a plastic piece that hangs down under the radiator. It forces air up and through the radiator at speed, since stock fans dont run when the car is moving at 35MPH and up. Usually temps drop while driving as opposed to sitting still.

Looney

I'm missing the right side piece of the air dam but have the middle and left side, it also has an electric fan

y84pauloflondon

IMO, 210-235 is way too high. Although that what GM intended for these cars to run at......Why? To help MPG's, burnoff x-fuel and keep the emissions down low!!! There is no other reason why(IMO) it would run at such high temps. It does nothing for performance. 180* is where I like it to be when driving, and maybe 180*-200* at most when in stop'n'go traffic.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Id go over the whole cooling system, something isnt working as it should. You should be seeing 210 max in stop and go traffic on a HOT day. And it should drop on the highway, not go up.

Looney

I flushed the radiator out a few days ago and put some stuff in and then flushed it again tonight so maybe it may make a difference tomorow when I drive it, not sure what else to check

travis401

iTrader: (1)

Thermostat might be malfunctioning, that air dam missing a piece isnt helping anything, could have some blockage in front of the radiator, ect....

RED86Z28

Unless the car has been changed from the stock cooling system configuration its fan should not be coming on before 220 something.

Looney

Ill have to check if there some blockage. Drove it around today and temp stayed alittle over 220 while driving with a/c off. And the fan usually kicks in around 200-210

y84pauloflondon

Get that Air Dam FIXED!!!!

Looney

Ok, I will get a replacement ordered, not that hard to reinstall right? just a piece of plastic? Also, after I drove home today i noticed a smoke/steam comming out of my hood vents? not sure whats going on, it was on the drivers side of the motor..

y84pauloflondon

Your car is running hot! You've got a cooling problem! Could be several things....Like a blown gasket!!!!!!!!

A bad gasket could explain why your running hot.......BTW you need to FIX that TOO!!!

If its steam, you should find some pooling of coolant. Check up around upper plenium(air intake manifold), and or head gasket.

Looney

Im am very sure its not the head gasket, the car has way too much get up and go, the only thing I can think of is last week I was adding break fluid and spilled alot on the car, clumsy me, but I figured by now it would be all gone, I never noticed it steam until today though. Ordering a replacement air dam piece tomorrow

y84pauloflondon

Just because your car "has way too much get up and go" doesn't mean your head gasket isn't leaking!!! You could have a very small leak somewhere anyways! If it was the brake fluid you spilled, there would be smoke and not Steam like you said, and it would've burned off w/10 mins of driving it around.

You got steam??? Then you have a leak!!! You ordered a new Air Dam piece, good, that's the first step! Now you need to find that leak, until you do your car WILL continue to run Hot!!!

y84pauloflondon

I'm still leaning towards the upper plenium!

Looney

What is the upper plenium?? and yes I ordered a new air dam, maybe I should blow out my radiator since ill be down in that area too, also picked up a new thermostat....Maybe that was the problem

y84pauloflondon

Sorry about that, I had a brain fart!!!! What I ment too say was Lower Plenium.

So you have the TPI, right! On top of the engine(air intake) is a long aluminum block, thats your upper plenium. Then you have the 8 Intake Runners(round aluminum tubing), 4 per side, and they bolt down on to the Lower Plenium(lower air intake manifold).

Its the Lower Plenium that I ment to say that the coolant could be leaking from.... About every 4-6 yrs I've needed to change mine(gasket) due to leaking of coolant. I don't know if this is a common problem with TPI engines or not! And its been the same corner of the block each time.

y84pauloflondon

- Did you need to buy all 3 pieces of new Air Dam, or did you just buy the side you were missing?
-Flushing the rad wouldn't hurt! (Good Idea!)
-A new t-stat is cheap enough to buy anyway even if the old one is still working.

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

It is a must that these cars run cool...check these areas immediately before you develop bigger engine problems-summer is coming. If she is running hot now it will only get worse in the summer heat. There should be no steam coming from under the hood no matter what the situation.

1. Air Dam (which you have on the way)-must have in order to run cool and proper.
2. Thermostat sticking (if car is new to you replace, preferably with a 180)
3. Water Pump (make sure it is not leaking anywhere)
4. Top and bottom radiator hoses (if car is new to you replace-check pressure)
5. Heater hoses (check for wear or leaks)
6. Radiator (flush and check coolant temp, also check for blockage and make sure it's flowing. If car is new to you put in fresh mix of coolant. You never know when it was last changed or what mixture the previous owner used.)
7. Fans (make sure they are kicking on and check for WHEN they are kicking on) and is fan elec or manual, single or double?
8. Intake (check for leaks around the gasket, especially the thermostat housing)
9. Overflow tank (check for operating level when engine is hot or cool{marked on side of bottle] and see if at any time it is bubbling. If it is you have a problem.)
10. Make sure coolant temp switch is working properly

There are plenty of threads and post on mods to improve cooling on this site. I suggest you research. As stated by a previous poster, having "get up and go" does not mean you do not have a leak. You got a 350 TPI so it is going to get up and go even when running like crap...lol. Wait until you solve the cooling problem and then watch your get up and go improve. Thirdgens need to be as cool as possible to run efficiently. By GM design they are very restrictive and need our mods to improve the cooling system. Focus a lot on keeping her cool. Your goal is to run at 180 to 200 if at all possible. Both of my cars are at this with the IROC at times slightly high (5 degrees). If you plan to use the air conditioner then all the more reason for you to get the cooling system under control as it is a tremendous drain on the entire motor.

y84pauloflondon

with Everything 86NiteRider had to say!!!

Looney

The fan is a single electric fan, checked car for leaks, nothing, bought another t stat going to put it in this week sometimes, ordering a new airdam all 3 pieces, 2 pieces are still left, car is running constant 220 while driving, 230ish just sitting, would dual fans make much of a difference in cooling? Are they expensive/hard to install and I'vedriven it for 3 days without seeing steam or smoke now

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

My TPI has a dual fan. Maybe that is the difference. Not hard to install. Bolts in the same way. Wiring must be different since their are two fans instead of one. Do a search for the scematic.

y84pauloflondon

RED FLAG!!!! Looney, your 87 GTA w/350 TPI ONLY has a single fan?!?!? I'm 99% sure that all TPI's were dual fan setup(not sure about 85-86 Camaro's). But 87-92 TPI's should have dual fans.......why don't you????

Why did the PO change from dual to single? Or did you change it?

Something funny is going on here!!!!!

Looney

Wow you really know your stuff, yeah it is dual fan, my bad just found that out today after a closer inspection of the engine, took out old thermostat (195 degress) and going to try and get a 180 for it and put it in tomorrow

Looney

replaced the thermostat and its running around 210-215 now but noticed that the right fan isnt kicking on when the a/c is on and the left fan isnt kicking on anymore

y84pauloflondon

Are you losing any coolant/how's the level on the over flow container? Are you adding any coolant on a daily/weekly basis???

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

Those fans have to kick on when they are suspose to. That is you main problem. Check the wiring to see if you are getting power to the fans. Check the plug for corrosion. Check the fan relay and the fuse for the fans. Until those fans kick on you will have cooling problems and AC problems.

Sounds like the next big change you will notice is when you install the air dam.

Auggie

Make sure that you remove the radiator shroud and tip the rad back to check for debrie between the A/C condensor and the rad. Mine was 1/3rd plugged.

Auggie

y84pauloflondon

Wow, I never even thought of that! Good tip Auggie.
Time wait and see how much of a difference it'll make!

DJP87Z28

I had to replace my raditor and found that the area behind the A/C condenor almost completely blocked with crud. Original owner and I did hose out that hidden area but I guess it didn't do the job.

deadbird

I'm not going to get in the the power vs temp debate but, I'll tell you, the stock intended temperature is fine, for a stock engine.

That said, the 87 TPI, the dual fan setup, only the primary fan runs for cooling and A/C. The stock turn on temperature for that fan is 220°.

The secondary fan is only tied to the fan switch in the passenger head and turns on at 238°

The primary fan (to test) will run if you jump the ALDL A-B terminal (flach the codes). You can also unplug the A/C pressure switch on the line running the passenger side frame rail (blue and black wires). This will make the primary fan run as soon as you key on the ignition.

The secondary will run if you unplug the fan switch and ground it (key on).

The side parts of the air dam are irrelevant to have. Why ? they are decoration.

Look for them on a Camaro... not there. Only a center air dam.

General cooling problems are old, soft hoses.
Debris in condenser/radiator. Bent fins on either.
Old water pump, the impeller will erode over time and lose efficiency to circulate water. Just because the pump doesn't leak, doesn't mean it's working well.
Bad coolant mix or just plain crappy old coolant.
Sediment built up from poor cooling system maintenance (flush can help with removing that).
Bad or wrong pressure radiator cap.
Using crappy $1.95 thermostats.
I'm sure I'm leaving out a few.

There is no good reason for a stock motor to have a cooling problem with the stock setup.

My 91 beater is ready to turn over 211k miles and I've yet to have a cooling issue (aside from the stock pump literally breaking). it will run 195° day or night. The temp, as expected, will climb slowly in stop/go traffic on a hot day but, it's still rare I ever kick on the fan.

Even on mild temp days, the heater will keep the temp at bay (like sitting in a drive-thru).

JMO though...

Looney

Thanks for the tips, cleaned out some debris from the radiator, still working on the fan issue but the car is running a solid 210 degrees now

Phoenixfire1989

Is it normal for my firebird to be running at 220? Only when sitting. Im getting mixed messages on here. My thermostat i replaced and is now at a 160. The 220 reading gave me a heads up that my radiator went, but installing and new radiator has not fixed the problem. My intake manifold gasket is leaking..could that be doing it?i don't want to damage the engine if it's not supposed to be as hot as 220. The temp does go down when moving to about 170 or so..the middle line between 100 and 220..
It never goes above the 220 mark..

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

Secondary Fan is controlled by A/C Pressure AND the fan switch in the pass side head.

Switching on A/C will turn on both the Primary and Secondary Fans.

I am going to check my service manual now and verify.

EDIT: Verified. Secondary fan is controlled by A/C Pressure and Fan Switch.

Looney

I just replaced my radiator and got both my fans running off a manual switch and my temp is running right around 215 all the time, turns out my old radiator had a hole in it, and thats where the steam was comming from, as long as your not going above 220 i think your ok

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Make sure you have "burped" the coolant system and got all the air pockets out of it. That'll cause cooling problems. I usually do mine just by removing the radiator cap and squeezing the upper hose while the motor is off and cool. It helps to kink by hand or clamp the reservior container hose shut so it doesn't flow back into it. If you see the coolant fluid go down in the radiator that means you had air in it. Keep on topping off the coolant and continue until it stops dropping. Air will normally collect in the upper hose after a coolant change since that's the highest point.

No, I never saw 220* degrees while just sitting in my stock 350, OEM radiator, and dual fans with the air dam on. I would normally only see around 200*. When I first got my car I hit 225* once on the highway and then found the air dam missing from previous owner. If your intake gasket is leaking that means you're either losing vacuum, getting fuel into the oil, getting coolant into the oil, or burning the coolant off in the intake/exhaust path. Burning coolant off isn't a huge problem, but once that gasket gives way it'll usually fill the cylinder up and stall the motor, which leads to towing and hopefully it doesn't damage anything. I've seen stalling and coolant in the oil happen in a V6 3800 series before (there notorious for having intake gasket problems). My 350 also had a vacuum leak and would not idle for anything and whistle at WOT due to the intake gasket. I would recommend getting it fix.

Normally I wouldn't recommend a 160* thermostat on a FI motor. The motor needs to be see at least 180/185 to go into closed loop mode from what I've heard, but obvisously you're running hot for some reason and you'll need to get that fixed first.

New cooling setup I'm using now 160* thermo, 31"x19" Griffin 1.25" tube, 2 Permacool 12" fans, and camaro style air dam I see 180* degrees highway without the fans and 155* with the fans.

DJP87Z28

On ECMM controled cooling system when the thermostat is replaced for example: 160 deg one the Prom (chip) in the ECM needs to be updated.

pestrada38

My car is all stock and the weather here is hot now. I live in the desert and its been above 93+ degree weather. My car is also running in the 220's. My fan kicks in and stays at this temp. Is that normal?

deadbird

After '87.
I stated fan information for an '87, the year of car in question (if the user info under the icon is the correct car being talked about).