87400tpi

I am here th help you nail down your part throttle blms.I can tune idle,highway and most conditions.Would you like to get your blms corrected ?Just post where you are having problems nailing blms and I'll try to help.

87400tpi

Not that many semi-advanced maf users in need of fine blm correction?I guess Dr. MAF is out of business.

Slow89Iroc-Z

idle...need to get her richer/leaner....

87400tpi

Is it rich or lean?

Slow89Iroc-Z

explain both please

ski_dwn_it

Lets say in my case I use the injector constant to get 85% of the BLMS on to 128, but still some of the others are around 127-131. Can you describe the process/rational that you do to get them all on......I would love to play around with mine more if the process is not all that cumbersome. Thanks.

Jesse

doc

If you have your BLMs between 122 and 134 inclusively, you are dead on. I believe corrections are made if you are outside that range.

87400tpi

There is alot involved with changing the maf tables.Ski I can explain it to you easy.Have you gotten any of my emails?Now slow89iroc-z,do you have a scan tool?If not then you will need one before we take the next step.If you do then get you car warmed up.In park @ idle you will need to record a log.Then post it so we can see if you ARE rich or lean.These tables are critical to having your car run right.It is for advanved users though.How long have you been burning?You might want to switch to email.I think I'm getting banned soon.I will help you as much as possible until then.I can't tell you how to adjust your blms w/o any scan data.

ski_dwn_it

Yeah I have been getting your emails. I have been tuning for a while now~2 yrs, and yeah I have a scanner with Ease software.

87400tpi

ski,I know about you.That is why I can explain everything (in email).But this guy is at square 1.The maf table adjustments are for fine blm correction.He does'nt even know if he is rich or lean.So I'll have to start slow with him.

Slow89Iroc-Z

I have all the stuff....been burning for about 6months now.....but there is little adjustment with MAF on the 6e code...you set the injector constant and then the computer calcs everything else.....I want more contol over the idle A/F ratio ....the computer is compensating and throwing it off......causing a lean miss O2 picks up rich and then computer leans it out more.....and then what has been working for you guys is to play with the injector constant is not working for my setup....

87400tpi

You can't use the injector to get the idle blms lined out.How are you using the injector constant to tune?We can get the integrator at 128 no problem.But you will have to get some scan data and post it.Also post your bin,that way I can review.After you post those two things we can take the next step.Hang in there,we'll get it.

clippjr8

i would like some help too please. i am gonna finish the stealth ram install tomorrow. ive been burnin for about 4 months now, and want to nail down those blms also. i use moates software and tuner to edit. ill be posting my bin and datalog in a couple of days for you to use. thanks for helping us maf guys out, this has been a blessing for us guys searchin these boards to learn to tune our maf cars. :hail:

87400tpi

MMMM,I am thinking of the stealth ram for my 406.Better than that pizza box ski uses,j/k.Get the data I'll help.

clippjr8

this is a thank you to 8700 tpi and ski-sown-it for all the help they have given us maf guys. following the procedures laid down by theses two i have managed to get my tune at part throttle nailed down to 128 (+- )4 blm's. im gonna start on wot as soon as i finish building my wb-o2 sensor. keep the help coming guys. what afr should i be trying to accomplish at wot for max performance? what tables need to be changed to achieve this afr? thanks again.:hail:

Ragtop89

Presently my BLMs are pegging 160 at idle.
I'm using the APYP bin and a Wells Mass Air sensor.
I believe that because of the Wells MAF flowing more CFM than a stock unit I'm running lean at idle.
I obviously need to change my MAF table to account for the increase of incoming air.
At a warm 1000 rpm idle I'm showing about 10grams/sec.
TPS voltage is at .55 volts.
I'm pegging my BLMs at 160 until I give it some gas and then my BLMs come down to about 122-128.

From what I understand, I need to add fuel at 10grams/sec until my BLMs come down to around 128.

I'm using GMECMEdit to change my bins.
GMECM's MAF tables are setup as Volts vs. Grams/Sec - the variable being Grams/Sec.

So, in the present MAF table .55volts = 6.20 grams/sec and I need to change the 6.20V to 10.00V to add more fuel at that TPS voltage, correct?
This will account for the extra air flow and even out my mixture if my thinking is correct.

What do you guys think?

Am I doing this right?

ZZ28ZZ

Ragtop69;
The MAF table is refering to MAF sensor voltage not TPS.
The ECM supplies the MAF sensor with 5 volts. The MAFs job is to pull the 5 volts down. The less airflow there is thru the MAF, the lower the voltage is pulled down.
Looks like you have the right idea though.


Might wanna install a new o2 sensor (if you haven't already) before starting in on the idle BLMs. I wasted a lot of time trying to tune with a sluggish O2 sensor. It always showed lean and took much longer for car to reach closed loop than it should have.

A wide-band O2 is a great help. It gives you something else to reference, and really helps for wot tuning.

poncho@home

Ok I need help with Idle(lean)

My setup: 1989 350 TPI Maf, K&N, 24# Injectors, !Cat, 3" Catback.

Arap bin modified to reflect 24# injectors, turn on/off fans at 208/204

Part throttle falls between 124 - 132 (happy with that)

Idle anywhere from 140-154

I know that the arap bin has a lower target idle and the battery voltage is a little lower than my stock bin so what should I be looking at?

As a side note: I ran my car at the track last night and had some interesting results. The last couple of times I ran my car I was above 96 mph. Yesterday I ran my car with 91 octane fuel instead of my usual 94 octance and I only managed 92 mph. When I got back home I hooked up my laptop and scanned a 40 min drive. I was getting some knock and my timing was being pulled back(2-5 degrees) at WOT and some part throttle(under load). My point is that a little knock can really impact performance(3-4 MPH) so make sure that your timing is on the money. Needless to say I will be only running 94 octance and then rescan to make sure that there is no knock retard!

Slow89Iroc-Z

convert to 730.....all your problems will go away...mine did...best move I ever made...as far as cars are concerned....

poncho@home

That's the stupidist thing I ever read. I don't have any problems. Nothing related specifically to the 165 ECM that a 730 ECM would cure.

MAF is a legitimate system that his been proven time and time again. If anything it's easier to get away with mods and not have your tune spot on with a MAF system vs. SD.

If I had as SD car I would not convert to MAF, but I also have no plans on converting to SD from MAF. Noone here can prove that I would see any gain in doing so and your statement strikes me as idiotic.

I plan on building a low 13 second street car. MAF more than supports this as I have seen and read about 11 second MAF cars.

And what exactly are these "problems" that I have that you refered to? My spark table is aggressive(by choice) which causes the knocks, I could easily just run my stock spark tables and clear that up but I am in the process of experimentation.

Please explain what problems you had that SD cured

Slow89Iroc-Z

ok

poncho@home

Noone else have any suggestions? I was thinking of looking at my stock bin and comparing it to the Arap for the Injector PW vs Battery voltage.

Looking it at right now my stock 89 bin has higher values for 11.2, 12.8 and 14.4 volts. Maybe I'll try to copy these into the arap table and try it out.

ski_dwn_it

Poncho,

Your on the right track and see the whole picture about a zillion times better than the majority here see it. 95% here are basing their opinions on someone elses screwed up bench testing results.

What your doing it real world tuning and getting real world results. And when you get your low 13 you will be going better than 90% of the before mentioned, so don't let it get to you.

Just smile and realize your tuning a system that others can't. The more you spend time at the track, the more apparent the whole picture becomes. Guys with 383 SD cars running 13s. Or best of all the last time at Etown. A guy comes up to me in the staging lanes and is telling me that he has a 434 that ran in the low 11s with MAF, and after switching to SD his best is 12.1sec. And he still thinks that SD is better. LOL. I said yep your going in the right direction with that modificatoin....and this is after 4 months of tuning. LOL Even if he sucks at tuning and is clueless, he tuned both systems and the MAF went 1 sec quicker. What does that tell you? (insert snide comments here)

If you look closely my entire setup is the exact opposite of what most on here say you should have. Low RPMs(5150), small injectors, MAF, Lots of timing (40*), small gears (3.07s), ****ty 165 computer. Super Ram intake for HP......as a whole I have to just laugh as you should to. If you need any help, just let me know. But hey, what do I know? I don't have a test bench to play with....

SATURN5

Umm.. your forgetting you also add a crap load of tolune as well.. BW

ski_dwn_it

Oh is that what makes me 3.3sec quicker than your:

Twin Eaton m90 Supercharged TPI With get this 12 lb of boost...

Maybe you should try some. LOL.

Come back when you have something worth defending yourself with. Until then, don't wait the rest of our time.

PS: I thought that selling stuff here on the board was against the rules????? Hmmmmmmm. How many times have I heard that doing that was cashing in on the board? $65 dollars for a bare board... Must be paying for all the R&D and then some.

SATURN5

Boring as ever...


Are you saying now that you don't add tolune... or should I start qouting you? Or are you now running +40* timing on pump gas.

Oh.. defend what??

Thats right... until I get a quicker time slip...

Personally I really don't give a rats butt what you think.. but of course you don't either.. :lala:

Enjoy your weekend.

SATURN5

No.. just selling junk $275 chips..

and its $50 a bare board.

poncho@home

Ski_dwn_it...thanks for the "moral" support. I have read many of your posts...good stuff.

As for test benches...I really don't see the purpose unless you are playing with the actual code...anything else only real world testing will tell you whether its right or wrong, as long as you go slow on the changes and document everything.

I am relatively knew to EFI, but have been racing and building cars with my brothers for over 20 years. We have always had a philosphy of creatingg a sum than the sum of the parts used, know what I mean?

We took a '77 TA with a puny 380 lift cam and simply added small tube headers and some tuning and had it pulling over 100 MPH, full weight untouched engine.(minus 1.65 rrs) car originally ran 89 MPH!!!

I so far have taken my 89 GTA from 89 mph to over 96 without touching engine.


I don't let it get me down...don't worry. I know what my car will run and have complete confidence in my process...all I wanted was help with some lean idle conditions!!!!! But I can work it for myself if need be.

ski_dwn_it

No its $250 for the chips! And I yet have a complaint and furthermore am on the verge of making a deal with one of the largest performance shops in the nation as a matter of fact to be the sole supplier of their tunes. Hmmmmmm, wonder why.

And I do add toluene at the strip. On the street 94 octane.....

Go to the strip or ask any of the racing boards how many guys with 11.8 compression run pump gas....you will soon see octane (racing fuels)are a normal thing. Anyone telling you any differently is a liar. Furthermore, how does adding some octane outweight adding a mechanical power maker like a super charger anyways. LOL. Give me a freakin break.

You and your buddies can try to pick my setup apart any way you like. I go to the strip and see and hear what people have to say. So I know how it works in the real world.

At Etown out of ~200+ vettes and other cars Corky and I were the top two NA cars there. Not too many people were concerned about toluene being in the tank. Well actually it wasn't then, I was running race gas with a 50/50 mixure of 94 octane.

The only cars that were quicker and by only a mere .1 sec were nitrous equipped cars with 200+ shots. Some in the low 10s and others just .1 sec quicker. Where do you think we would be running with a 200+ shot? I'll let you know. Easy 9s.

But I prefer to do it Naturally for now. And 10s is just a nice day way. Speaking of nice days I'm going to go out and cruise around with my 94 octane now :cheeers:

Slow89Iroc-Z

Actually guys I played with MAF for 6 months till I seen the light of day in MAP......I had an unstable idle and a horrible bog with more than 1/2 throttle. The problem was chased down to the MAF reading air in both directions at idle with richened up the idle too much. The MAF system couldnt react fast enough to compensate for the 1/2 throttle bog with cause it to lean out bad causing knock. I also pumped a bunch of AE into it to try and fix it but it wouldnt go away. I am not saying that MAP is better but for my setup it was......no flames here I to wanted to have a MAF system however it didnt work for me. BTW I was running 14's on MAF and then I converted to MAP and now I am low 12's..... with only 1 month tuning.... There is 11's in her I feel it. I did scans at the track and she still needs more AE off the line and the PE stuff is still too rich.. Hopefully I see 11's in Oct at the MFBA US41 rental.

funstick

first of all how did the MAF read air in both directions ? was there a 90* elbow in front or behind it ?

secondly the MAF can react plenty fast. i still belive adimentally that you had a bad MAF or a vacum leak.