Steven89Iroc

Can someone tell me where I can find the stock Sy/Ty definition file? If not, I have one labeled "58rr_v12.ecu" that I found on diy-efi, but I don't know how different it is from the original one. Some things in it are obviously not original.

Also, I have 2 versions of the $58 .bin, one is from Grumpy's 2bar.zip for the $60 (that I figured out I shouldn't use do to lack of source code knowledge at this time) labeled STOCK58.bin, and the other is labeled 1618.bbzb that I got from the Sy/Ty forums. They are quite different in most all their values. I read that I should use the bbzb as a good starting point, but there seems to be multiple versions of bbzb too. Is the 1618 okay?

I've read and searched so much over the last couple weeks that my brain hurts and it's all beginning to just get mixed up in my head, but I still can't find all the info I need.
I need to get my car going with the $58 code real soon, I have important deadlines.
I won't have a burner until I get to Cali in July, but I have a couple friends with them here. What I need to do is put together a program to send to one of them so they can burn it onto my chip (I have two correct chips and the memcal adapter). I don't need to be perfectly tuned yet, but I need to get it driveable and able to handle ~6 psi for now without blowing up (heh). I do know a decent bit about tuning, it's just getting it that far that I need to worry about right now.
I have TunerproRT to do this with. Has anyone put together a $58 .bin with it?

On the issue of injector size, I need to get it ready for 42 lb/hr injectors. I read that people using Tunercat are having issues translating the values. By the formula, their numbers are in the ~80-120 range while Tunercat reads the BPC vs EGR table as .09 stock. Well In Tunerpro the bbzb1618 reads 130 for that table (at least with the 58rr_v12.ecu definition file), and the STOCK58.bin reads 85. I get right around 100 using the formula for the 42 pounders. Am I right to assume that this value translates over directly?

That's about all I have for the moment, and as my first real post about the subject I just wanted to say thanks for everything you knowledgeable guys have done. Many people appreciate it beyond words.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Is there an issue with the 58rr_v12.ecu file? And, not original from what?

RBob.

Steven89Iroc

No, the only issue is me not understanding it.
It seems to be working as intended, it just looks unfamiliar to me from anything else I've seen, and I have no one (as of yet) to tell me about it. What I mean by original is the one from the stock St/Ty's. Am I mistaken in how I think this works?
When I say "not original", I mean how the tables are labled, for example "VE Table - in idle", "VE Table - not in idle", and "Premium Fuel SA vs. MAP". That definately sounds 'aftermarket' to me.

My thoughts are based off of a "749.ecu" file that I found that looked to be largely incomplete, it only had a few tables (they were the Fxx tables that I hear people talking about), but only a couple, and I didn't understand what they meant by themselves. The file in text form was WAY shorter than every other .ecu I've seen so I was just thinking it wasn't all there. At any rate, is this how the 'stock' definition file works?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Interesting, and I see your point. This ecu file is about as original as it gets. It was done with no input from any other ecu files, just a hac. It should be about as complete as possible. Hopefully nothing was missed.

As for the tables having a name definition based on the 'Fxx' series, that is a good idea. I'll see about adding that. The table/constant names used are a description of the functionality. In actuality they can be anything without affecting their usage.

RBob.

Steven89Iroc

Cool.
I suppose me using the term "factory" instead of "original" to describe the definition file I was looking for might have caused less confusion. Yours is definately original in that sense of the word as far as I can tell. Good job on it! I just wasn't correlating the names with what I've been reading about.

Definitely, adding onto the name which table corresponds to which Fxx table would help out when reading all the other posts about changing those Fxx tables, it just transitions it all easier.

So what all have you added compared to the factory definition file? For example, the Premium Fuel Spark Advance vs. MAP table that I previously mentioned doesn't sound like it would be used in the factory code, am I wrong?

BTW, one of the reasons I need to get this up and running soon is because I'm running my new L98 (mostly stock, just stronger 9.0:1 internals and an '89 L98 cam) on the 100% factory '90 LB9 ECU with the 19 lb/hr injectors. It's working fine for regular cruising but I don't want to push it like that once the engine's fully broken in (another 200 miles). I want to burn one $58 based chip with 19 lb/hr injectors to make sure everything went right with the conversion and .bin, then another identical chip for the 42 lb/hr injectors so I can put them in (the other chip will eliminate most other variables if it doesn't run right with the bigger injectors).

So it sounds like I'm fine using the 58rr_v12.ecu file (I feel a lot more comfortable knowing where it came from), now I need to know which exact .bin to start with.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The 58rr_v12.ecu file is for a factory stock $58 mask. The only items that may be a little unusual are the ALDL locations. These were added to allow people to edit the ALDL data stream. This is to include ALDL stream items that are not normally there (such as the output from a WB logged by the ECM).

The original 58rr_v12.ecu file can be found on Moates site: http://www.moates.net/fileman, under the 3) Binary Editor Definitions directory.

RBob.

Steven89Iroc

Yeah, that's actually where I found it, I was getting confused at first.

Can anyone tell me the deal with the bbzb1618.bin or the STOCK58.bin? Where can I find the bbzb1518 that I heard was good? I need a bin to start with, I don't want to use one nobody knows about, as the values are quite different.

ty1295

For a 2nd xls file (beta version needed of tunerpro) I have put both my aldl and ecu def. files up on www.NWSTP.com

Link on left side.

Ready for anybody and everybody to try.

The ALDL stuff is geared mostly for 3 bar, as is the def. file as that is what I run on everything.

Steven89Iroc

The .xdf file is the definition file right? My version of Tunerpro (3.1) only recognizes .ecu files. I don't need a 3-bar yet anyway. I did find other useful information on that site, however, so thanks.

I almost thought I was going to have to dump this and all my other info as my computer recently aquired a nasty virus, fortunately I got it worked out of the system this morning. Phew!

Anyway, I found the 1580bbzb.bin on moates.net, I must have overlooked it previously. From what I compared it was the same as the 1680bbzb I had. I've been getting the 1580 ready to try in the IROC. Among other things I'm swapping the spark and VE tables over from the stock $8D AUJP for 100kPa and less since my L98 is *almost* stock as far as that's concerned. Hopefully that will get it running decently off boost.

The BPC calculation for the stock 32.5 lb/hr Sy/Ty injectors came to 127.88, so I'm confident that the 130 that is in the BPC vs. EGR% table is that same value. With the 42 lb/hr Lightning injectors I have it came to 99.16, and the stock 19 lb/hr 305 injectors came to 219.2, so I'm using those accordingly.

Also I figured out how to change the names of the tables and such with Tunerpro, so if I can find all of the Fxx names I can add those too. I'm having trouble as of yet finding all of that, but I have found some (correlating with the address where they are located) in the "Coordinated Values" table in the P4 document, but they aren't all there for some reason. I've also found more on the www.NWSTP.com site that ty1295 just linked me to. Can anyone point me to a full 'list' of sorts?

I figure since I'm finally figuring out how to answer my own questions with you peoples' help, I might as well post my answers to help other searchers in the future.

Steven89Iroc

Here's a question for RBob...

On the NWSTP site I read this:

"0x038A KFRPMLOW Hi RPM Fuel Cutoff Thresh. Lo Limit 4535 RPM
0x038C KFRPMHI Hi RPM Fuel Cutoff Thresh. Hi Limit 4714 RPM

Rev limiters. Once you rev past 4714 rpm, fuel is cut, and will not be enabled until you go below 4535 rpm."

However, in Tunerpro with 58rr_v12.ecu, there are two different tables. One is "RPM fuel cut (6 cyl)" and the other is "RPM fuel cut (8 cyl)". Both of these have an address of 038A, and I can't find one at 038C.
Both tables have two terms, Cutoff and Resume. In the 6 cyl table the Resume RPM is 4535.36 (the same value as the KFRPMLOW table above), but the Cutoff is 155.13. This doesn't make any sense to me.
How do these tables work and how does the program know to differentiate between the 6 cyl and 8 cyl tables if they're located at the same address?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There is only one table with two entries for RPM cut/resume. The 6 cyl and an 8 cyl have different equations, hence the two apparent tables in the ECU file. However, they both are the same bin location.
Each of the two entries cover address locations 038A, 038B (for resume), and 038C, 039D (for cut off).

RBob.

Steven89Iroc

Thanks, I'll enter values that way then. Much appreciated.

skwayb

Ty1295 just sent me a New $58.xdf and I put it up on NWSTP.com. This XDF file is still a work in progress. Look it over give feedback if you find any other errors.

Some of the fixes are for RPM fuel cut (8 cyl) and RPM fuel cut (6 cyl) plus some other kpa/PSI conversions to the labels for easier editing.

We added a ton of notes from Brian Green (made the syty code 3bar back in 97) that make it nice to know what each item is for. All the notes are from this page.

http://www.nwstp.com/forum/chiptable.asp

Just hit F2 in TunerPro 4.x to see the notes on a item.

Here is what it looks like.

Steven89Iroc

That looks great, but I don't want to get Tunerpro RT 4.0 just quite yet as it's still in the beta stages and I unfortunately don't yet know enough to deal with bugs or how to help fix them.

Once 4.0 is in full release I'll have a look see at that $58.xdf because it looks very user friendly. Thanks for the info!

I'm about to order all my own burning and datalogging equipment from Craig Moates because I determined that I need to have all this myself now. Hopefully it won't take long to get here, my new L98 is broken in and rarin' to go N/A for now with a good tune.

I have my $58 .bin 99% ready to try out in the car as soon as the rest of the conversion is ready and I have a chip burned, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that I'm unsure about is what I should do with the AE. I hear it's very fat as is, but I don't know how to take any out with the numbers it provides, or even how much to take out. Any insight?

ty1295

I can say I have found less bugs now with 4.0 than 3.0

and ALDL screen is much better.

Just start the car, tuning with speculation hasn't worked for me yet.

Steven89Iroc

Okay, if it's pretty much bug-free for the most part then I don't have a problem with it. Cool.

I still don't want a 3-bar calibration though. :/ I'm pretty much set up with the 2-bar, and I won't be going over 15 psi.
Did you guys ever do something like that with a 2-bar calibration? Either way, it looks to be a work of digital art, as with everything I've been mesmerized by lately.

...Point taken, I suppose I'll leave the AE stock until I see what it does.

ty1295

I am going to work on adding tables, etc for 2 bar also

Give me a week or two to dial that in.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Some of the RPM based stuff doesn't show up properly when using it in a v8 btw. If you want specifics I can dig into my notebook.

Tunercat for example, has a 58-B for v8 apps. And in $60, I just have some constants and such that don't work at the RPM entered. (i.e, fuel cutoff)


-- Joe

ty1295

Any information on V8, 2 bar, etc you can give me will let me update and add to the def. file.

I plan to actually run a v8 myself on the 749 in about 6 months, so be helpful myself.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, if you can find the info on what didn't work that will be helpful. As it is I just checked the V8 cut/resume RPM constant and found I used the wrong value. Not by much, but I do this one all of the time.

To fix it change the 984030 to 983040 (note the '30' and '40' are reversed). This constant is only used in one place in the ECU. Open it in Notepad, search for 984030, change it, save it, and done.

RBob.

skwayb

Put an Updated XDF Definition file the Ty1295 and I have been working on for both 2 bar and 3 bar up on www.nwstp.com.

Here is the file.
http://www.nwstp.com/files/paul/58_2&3bar.zip

Still a work in progress...

Mangus

Or, even better and easier, open the item in the editor and hit F10 to see the "real" item comments window. :-D

ty1295

I saw that screen before but couldn't figure out how to add text to it.

What did I miss?

Mangus

Heh... the text that is shown in the description field of the XDF item editor in Paul's screen shot is the text that is outputted in the item comments window (F10).

Make sense?

ty1295

I am either still missing it, or maybe something is wrong.

Hit F2, get description of table.

Hit F10 with same item highlighted, get a blank screen that I can't type in either.

Mangus

Open the table. =)

ty1295

Steven89Iroc

Awesome. Thanks for the info guys. I've been busy, haven't had a chance to reply lately.

All of my burning/datalogging equipment is on the delivery truck headed for my house today, I'm excited about that. First I'm going to burn a pretty much stock $8D chip to see that everything works out, and to get my 350 running right. Shortly thereafter I'll start on the $58 conversion. When I have more time I'll write out a list of pretty much everything I changed to the bbzb1580.bin to see if you guys catch something I missed or shouldn't have done, if you would do that for me.

For the RPM limiter stuff, I seemed to notice that if I open up the 6 cyl table after I already saved the 8 cyl table, it changes my 8 cyl settings to the 6 cyl settings. I decided not to open up that table, and it seems to be keeping my 8 cyl settings. I don't see anything else wrong with it other than that. Was that what you were talking about?

That 2-bar xdf and Tunerpro 4.0 will soon be additions to my growing collection of software. I don't have time to try them out at the moment, but relatively soon. I'll let you know if I see any obvious bugs, and how it all works out. Thanks a lot!

skwayb

The Fuel Cut off problem you are having looks like a problem in TunerPro 4.0 Beta. Mangus is looking at and thinks that is what it is. You put 5000 in the rpm field and save it. Come back and it is now 19. WTF. Definitely something going on there. Hopefully be fixed soon.

Mangus

Issue fixed in 4.0 beta build 2439 (now on the site). Enjoy.

skwayb

Mangus found a major problem with the XDF file I have up on NWSTP. The end chip address was incorrectly set to 7FFF (32k sized chip) in the XDF Header info so it would cause Tuner Pro to crash when saving the bin. It should have been 3FFF (16k bin).

Please download the new file to correct it.

http://www.nwstp.com/files/paul/58_2&3bar.zip

Sorry for the error.

RBob you may want to check your 58rr_v12.ecu file also. I found the same problem when I imported it. Unless you are using a 32k bin and made it for a 32k bin.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Just one thing I don't understand. Why arnt you guys switching to $60 ?

If I can find 10 minutes this weekend, I'll point out the v6/v8 differences in the $58 ecu that I, and tunercat discovered. But I've been using $60 since the day Bruce released it.


-- Joe

ty1295

I have $60 also running on my buick T Type, thanks to a day at Bruces and his gracious help.

If you don't plan to do some code hacking, $60 doesn't offer anything more.

Now if you plan to add special code, want to look at the source code, etc. then go for $60.