liquidh8

Hey all. I just put up my el camino in a trade for an 81 buick wagon (g-body) like my malibu wagon. It has a complete 86 GN drivetrain. Engine, trans, rear, harness, ecm. Prior owner put and adjustable boost **** andan aftermarket FP regulator in it. To be honest it runs like poop. I have to make it "stock" again and take it from there.

Now my question. Can I get an adapter from Craig or somewhere else so i can burn my own chips? Is there an XDF and a bin available for this ecm? Does anybody know the mask?

Thanks guys for any and all info.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Ah yes, the turbo-manic SFI, MAF, $31 mask in the '7148 ECM. One of the most hac'd ECMs out there. Head over to www.gnttype.org for the hac and calibration list. Although, to tell the truth not sure what is around for an ECU or XDF file.

Has fan, A/C, CCP, EGR control, along with the wastegate. Uses both a 3rd gear and 4th gear tranny switch. This is to let the ECM know which gear it is in.

For the G2 adapter most '7148 ECMs use the narrow .45" spacing. On the occasion one will need the wider .60 spacing adapter. Need to check the ECM for which is required.

RBob.

liquidh8

Thanx for the reply. So it is using the same adapter as the 7747 ecu. cool. I'll be hoping there is an xdf and some bin's out there. I could read the stock bin off the chip when it yank it out. I'll do some searching.

Thanks again for the quick reply RBob.

liquidh8

Hello all, has anyone here done tuning on a grand national/t-type with the 7148 ECM? I have an xdf and a few bins for it. I am having really high blm's, pegged at 150, the INT is around 128-135. This is at idle. The exhuast smells really rich.

It is pretty much all stock, except 30 lb injectors instead of 28, and a VAFPR. the is a plenum spacer. I chased around for vaccum leaks using propane, (ran out of 2+2). Don't seem to be any. I don't know if this engine has a bigger cam in it or not. The MAF readings are 4 gsec at idle. The TPS is set and all.

I guess what I am asking is how do you adjust the fueling in this? I have the ebl on my other wagon, and it is easy as changing the numbers in the VE tables, but this doesn't have anything like that?

If anybody know help, I am stuck.

I can email the xdf and bins to those interesting in looking. I don't know how to post them up here.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Listening in. I'll be doing the same thing soon on a friends TR.

I'm looking at tuning the TPI MAF systems, as a basic guide on what to do with the TR bin.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Take your time until the tune is under control. Vac line off the FP should be 39 psi at idle. With a MAF setup any vacuum leaks will drive the BLM up.

Are the BLMs high at idle or under load? If at idle, then vac leaks. If under load then keep an eye on the fuel pressure. There has been an issue with Walbro '169 fuel pumps. No flow which has the pressure dropping.

RBob.

liquidh8

Six_shooter, stay looking. I'm willing to share whatever I learn.

RBob, this is at idle. I've been hunting around for vacuum leaks. I am a member at the turbobuick forums, but not many DIY tuners there.

I blocked of the EGR, and the vacuum block. Not better. I found a leak before the turbo, so i will be getting a new gasket for there. I am also gonna lift the upper plenum off, make 2 new gaskets, and reseal it. It has like a 1/2"s pacer on it.

I will be taking it slow. There aren't many things different from stock. This engine is in a buick g-body wagon.

Not stock....

injectors, downpipe and exhuast (all 3inch), adjustable WG rod, plenum spacer, modded ecm to burn chips (by me), 3.5 MAF pipe, giant K&N cone, adjustable FPR. Someone removed BOTH screens in the MAF too. I've been trying to get a good stocker for it.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For fueling you get to play with the MAF tables & scalars. There are 6 tables each with a scalar value. See the Tuning Guide book sticky above, chap 5, 165, MAF Miscellanea. That thread has information on how the MAF tables work.

There is the injector flow constant at location $436

IIRC, the stock GN MAF only has the front screen.

As for the rich smell at idle, how do the plugs look?


RBob.

liquidh8

Thanks for the direction there RBob, I'll be doing some reading today to get a handle on it.

I was under the impression the MAF had 2, by reading everyone saying to remove one. Ok then, I guess it should be ok with both removed. I am trying to buy another one as a spare, in case this one is bad and causing my problems. The tap test is fine with it.

The plugs are new, so I'll have to pull em and check to see if they are black. I haven't driven the car on the road except for up and down my driveway (200ft). I am pretty much working on the idle areas, it just doesn't idle good. Stalling and all till it warms up, then barely runs. 800-900 rpm it is shacky and rough. So i am letting it warm up, then trying to troubleshoot at operating temp.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I wonder if by everyone saying to remove just one screen, that is why I am thinking they only came with one (the front). Either there is only one to remove, or I keep seeing MAFs with only one left of the two?

Anyway, the front screen should be left in place. The K&N may be messing up the airflow to the screen-less MAF. They aren't known for the smoother air flow a paper element provides. If you can't find MAF I believe I have one that still has the front screen in it. Let me know if you would like to borrow it.

Another thing that you can try is to make an X out of some sheet metal. It should be 3" to 4" long and placed right before the MAF. This helps straighten out the air flow. The X is if you look at it face on, and at that angle can not see the length.

RBob.

liquidh8

Ok on the sheetmetal. I think I will do that.

I was out there today working on it some more. Seems I have more than one exhaust leak. I am also weary on the integrity of the intake gaskets. The old turbo pumped so much oil around, I dunno. So, the plan is to replace all the exhaust gaskets, check and fix any cracks, if any, replace the intake gaskets, make the sheetmetal x for the MAF and replace the EGR valve. (maybe powdercoat the intake and valve covers in work while they are off )

I may take you up on the MAF loaner, you aren't too far from me I think to just get it. Maybe on my trip I can drop off that VSS, I don't think I'll be needing it. If I am not mistaken, the 148 ecm needs the same vss input as the 747, so i won't need this in the future.

liquidh8

Sorry I haven't posted in some months, military has me busy and away from home for lengths of time.

Bump for a few more question. I was over at the turbobuick boards, and found an XDF, ADS and I got a few bins to use. I have a turbotweak chip for now.

Dennis fro the buick boards gave me some insite about the idle routines, and I found some info on trying to fix it. idles crappy now. But me question is, does anyone know what the boost settings in the ECM do. The are tables in the 31T, 7148 ecm, that have a PWM setting for the boost soleniod. I know you can make the boost one setting at 1+2 gears, and another at 3,4 gears.

I just can't seem to find anything on what all the stuff does in this ecm. I also can't seem to find anyone who tunes them. They usually just buy a mail order chip.

Any help or info/direction is appreciated.

liquidh8

Small update:

I found some problems before I started tuning. I had to replace the turbo, blowing huge amounts of oil into the intake. The intake gaskets got trashed. I yanked the intake and valve covers off, powder coated them, new gaskets and on. I picked up a stock MAF with one screen still in it. I had to fix some cracked headers, added dual 3 inch exhaust with magnflows. Added a second IAT to use a MAT for diagnostic purposes. Wish I knew how to have the ECM use a IAT singal AND a MAT signal. This things runs SOOOO much better. (using a turbotweak chip for now). I bought this thing called a powerplate, and order a heated NB o2 for it to try and fix the crappy idle.

This is where I am at now. crappy idle, and crappy starting. I would like to get rid of the turbo tweak chip, since it has no EGR in it, and a very rich OL idle all the time. And make my own chips.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I'll be listening in to any input here as well.

I have a friend with an '86 TR, that I will be tuning this year, I was supposed to towards the end of last year, but it just didn't happen.

I do have quite a few bins, and a couple XDFs, and an ads file. I haven't been able to verify the ads yet. I'm pretty sure I got most of these from moates.net fileman pages. I think there was also a few at gnttype.org.

I have a '7148 for my test bench, but haven't hooked it up yet. I need to figure out how to simulate the MAF signal first. I need to get an O-scope to scope the car to see the type of signal and then create a simulating signal.

I really need to get on making the new harnesses for my test bench...

liquidh8

At least you have a test bench. This car isn't ready for the road just yet, so I can get long datalogs or anything. I have to yank the WB from the chevy and throw it in here. Right now I am trying to get a handle on the tables in the bin so i can try and fix the idle, control the boost, and keep the EGR on for PA emissions. I have some bins and xdf'salso, probobly the same stuff you have. I can email what I have to you if you want to do the same? We can compare.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You have two threads going which is going to make it tough to follow. These engines never did idle all that well. The IAC routines leave a lot to be desired. OTOH, make sure that the cam sync is located properly. If 180 out it will still run (waste spark), but the injectors won't fire at the correct time.

For cranking, it can take a while. Needs to get a cam sync pulse before it will fire the spark plugs. The slick setup is the later quick start system. Syncs up within a 1/3 of a revolution.

Any chance you have an extra EGR mounting plate & clamp?

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The MAF is a 30 to 150 HZ frequency output. I'm not sure about the voltage level. Try an O.C. driver to the ECM and see if that works. If not then try it pulled up to 5 volts.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Mentioned in the other thread about idle. Double check that the cam sync is set for #1. If 180 out it runs but idles bad.

The wastegate solenoid is PWM. The higher the duty cycle the more boost is allowed. There isn't any feedback, the ECM just sets the DC% according to the tables. So changing the wastegate rod length will change the level of allowed boost.

By increasing the values in the wastegate duty cycle table the solenoid will allow more boost. Same with the 3rd & 4th scalars. There are three levels of boost:

1st & 2nd gear
3rd gear
4th gear

When in 1st or 2nd the wastegate duty cycle table is used as is. When in 3rd the 3rd gear scalar is applied. Then when in 4th the 4th gear scalar is applied. Usually reducing boost as the gear increases.

RBob.

liquidh8

Bob, THANK YOU!! That is the info I was hoping to get. I know I can change the rod lenth, it is already adjustable. I was just hoping to be able to keep the boost higher in 1st and 2nd when the load is less, then drop it down via the soleniod in 3rd and 4th when the engine load is higher. This is after I set the boost with the wastgate.

Also, i am planning on getting a new cam sensor, the gear and the cam cap. I think the shaft in the cam sensor gear is too sloppy. I went on the gnttype.org site and get the procedure for making sure the cam sensor is set right, and it is. I also checked the output of the cap after the reluctor passed through it, the is a square wave, a little dirty though.

I'll keep you guys posted. I want to replace the cam sensor and add the heated NB o2 (in the mail now) before trying a new bin.

Thankx again for all the replies.

liquidh8

Sorry, 2 thread by accident really, can you merge them?

Replied on the other thread about the sensor.

I replaced the egr valve, clamp and gasket when I replaced the intake gaskets. The old valve was trash. I guy who frequents the maliburacing site has convered his ride to the fast start set-up. I though about copying it, he has what he did on his website.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Ha, the merge worked, and I didn't crash the site while trying to figure it out!

For the quick start (QS) Bruce has a thread on the TB's (the plural'ized URL) board about it. Lots of pictures and other information. MalibuRacing also posted in that thread with additional information. The '96 and up QS system is better then the ealier one.

With the stock TTA the crank to start is not real good. Not only can there be two full engine revolutions before the cam sensor comes around. The fuel pulses need to be held off. The ignition module needs to see the cam sensor before it can start sparking.

If the fuel pulses begin immediately it can flood the engine. OTOH, if the cam sensor is right at the sync point, the spark begins, but you still have to wait for the fuel pulses to begin. So you end up waiting a while either way for the engine to start. And it doesn't always have a nice clean start up.

Sometimes the fuel pulses begin before the spark, sometimes the spark begins before the fuel pulses. Go to the QS system and the spark starts right away. Can then change the calibration to start the fuel right away. Best of both worlds.

Interesting enough the ECM fires the injectors in batch fire until it is running. Then if it gets a cam signal it will revert to SFI mode. No cam signal, SES light and stays in batch. Need a cam signal to sync up the igntion module, but once running will stay running without the cam sensor. But can't restart the engine with a bad cam sensor.

RBob.

liquidh8

Ok,I'll check the TB's board and search for some of Bruce's old threads. turbo1dr (maliburacing, TB) Has a pretty detailed write up too. I just need to take the car off the road to add the reluctor wheels to the balancer to add the QS, that would be my biggest obstacle in the changeover. As you stated, this would be beneficial, since when she starts it's no the cleanest, like you said,

liquidh8

I ordered a replacement cam sensor for the buick, and I got another up-pipe with a bung in it already to run my nitrous/alky. When these parts come in in a week or two I'll slap em all in and check the car out. At that point is should be mechanically sound. I'll try and start burning some new chips for it.

Over the summer I'll be hitting the junk yards to find parts. Parts for my roller cam swap and for the QS conversion.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Grand National guys will tell you that they don't need to experiment with code like we do, because it's been done, marketed, and works just fine. They just give Eric (turbo tweak) a call, run the fast scanmaster chip, get a power logger and scan master, and be done with it.

liquidh8

I have the ECM modded to tune already, with everything I need to us TunerPro.

You right about the GN guys though. I do have a turbo tweak chip in it now. I just like to be able to change things myself is all, not have to rip out the chip and send it out and get it back, yadda yadda. Besides, that scanmaster is an unsitely thing to be mounted on my dash. Having the craptop there when i need to tune it and taking it off is fine with me.

I would like to get the scanner that hooks to the laptop via an edgecard connector to get the fast data speed, so i can map it with my WB. I think it is turbolink?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Went to the track last night with a few of the MAGNA guys (Mid Atlantic Grand National Association), and most of them use the Power Logger. Saying it was impressive would be an absolute understatement....;

http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/ite...p?ic=050PWRLOG

liquidh8

I was looking into that one too, actually leaning towards purchasing it. I just have to get the cash to buy. I will have something to use to do my full throttle tuning, especially with the nitrous and alky on it. Thanks fo rlooking out!

turbodave

Powerlogger is the hot ticket in the turbo Buick community!!!
Do you visit www.turbobuick.com for advice? Great site for the turbo Regals!!!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the powerlogger does look slick. It seems to be terribly similar to another advanced logging system that I am familiar with.



RBob.

turbodave

You mean Direct Scan? Yes similar but far more advanced!!! And since direct scan is no longer supported it's on the way out.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

No, not the direct scan. Something that was out even before it. Ever visit Bruce's web site? (note that it is no longer available). He went by Grumpy here on TGO.

RBob.