chevy1500z71

iv been having all kinds of issues ever since i put my new motor in with my lc1 wideband kit. iv had the senor about 6" past the coillector and that has always worked well but with the new motor it overheats almost every time i drive it. i can normally spot when its going to happen, if i see it lean out a bit, that wil heat up my egts enough to over heat it. if i run the truck wide open for an extended period of time it will over heat. my egts should not be too hot really, im spraying methanol and have it running good and rich under boost.

so i welded another bung in the exhaust about 1 ft further back since this is the maximum i can go before i would have to move it past the cutouts and then id never be able to run open cut out. now its even worse! it stops woprking and throws code 8(overheat code) out of no were, even more frequently then before. now im thinking i must have damaged the sensor from the heat of welding on the cutouts which was pretty close to the sensor(when i say pretty close, i mean iv got slag all over the sensor).

chevy1500z71

also, can you clean an 02 sensor or do you kind of have to leave them alone? iv got a spare wide band sensor from my last lc1 kit(burned up against the header and had to get a new kit) that's still good, only has about 6,000 miles on it. i was thinking maybe i should try swapping to this on to see if the one iv got is damaged. but i wanted to clean it before i put it in since it is covered in suit, i ran this sensor when i was just starting to tune and the truck ran very rich, so this sensor has been worked hard.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

My sensors had a short life at first. I was right behind collector flange. I moved sensor back further and probably what did the trick was add the extendo bung they sell. stainless steel and it moves the sensor out of ext stream. I believe I am on my 3rd season no issues.

???

iTrader: (5)

yeah, i was going to say swap the sensor and if it still does it get the extender. it works better than trying to move it back farther.

chevy1500z71

well the extendo bung sounds like the perfect solution. ill change out the sensor with the spare iv got for now. but ill have to put the bung extendor thing on my list of things to do.

thanks for the help guys, that was the answer i was lookin for.

chevy1500z71

o yea, iv got one last question while im at it, is it better to put the lc1 on a switch and turn it on after the truck is started up, also, is it bad to leave the sensor dead and un powered while the motor is pushing exhaust by it? i left that last sensor in the pipe dead for quite some time before i got a new lc1 kit, im hoping its still good to use, id hate to have to buy another one when that one is hardly used.

this also gives me a big delema with my whole exhaust system in general. iv got true dual 2.25", which i fel are too small for this new motor, im sort of tossing around the idea of making up a new exhaust system and dealing with the wideband while i do that. i was thinking true dual 3" with an h pipe and my flowmaster 40s... maybe have them exit under the bed side in front of the tire with some big 4" tips, or leave them strait 3" and paint em black, maybe this should be a whole new thread but what do you guys think?

whitelightnin92

i think dual 3'' is a tad too much. MABE 2 3/4 at the most. my wideband overheats when i idle too long. i think its too close to the new cat.

RevItUpZ28

iTrader: (1)

Which extended one did you buy? They offer just the longer bung by itself, and then one with an extended heatsink.

chevy1500z71

your secondary should be 1.75x the primary size, for me, thats 2.85", 3" would work.

chevy1500z71

no comments on weather to run the wide band on a switch or with key power?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I've run mine off a relay that is fired by the fuel pump relay.
My theory anyway that if everything comes up to temperature at the same time you shouldn't have problems.
You don't want to have the hot sensor hit with cold fluid like condensation if you turn the switch on manually before you start up on a cold morning. + I'd forget its was on sometime and kill the battery after letting it sit for a weekend
It could still work that way of course, I just went for a consistent time to have it turned on.

chevy1500z71

i was thinking still leave it off of key power, but a switch off of the key power, like an over ride switch to turn it off. that way i could flip it on after the motor is started for sure. some times i could hit the key a few times to start it and this powers the thing on and off and confuses it in to an error mode at times. like if them motor dies at a red light and i start the truck again without turning the key all the way off first it may throw an error. but my truck is tuned pretty well now so these issues aren't as much a concern, but still worth considering when thinking about using a switch or just leaving it on key power. i was just wondering if it was better for it to flip it on after the truck is started, not power it and then start cranking the motor.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

My LC-1 is powered on with the key. It's been this way for over a year and no issues with it this way. FWIW

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Two way to kill the sensor as JP stated are
1. overheat by fogetting it is on
2. blasting it with condensation when it is fully warmed
3. And lessor placement in less than optimal location or use without the bung extender in less than optimal location. As I may have stated first one and a half season of use I had 3 sensor failures from above. now 3 seasons and all OK.

Mine is wired key on- sensor on- fuel pump come on on sensor on- fuel pump shuts off sensor is off(like if I leave ign on too long)-engine on sensor on. engine off sensor off.

this was idiot proof

chevy1500z71

im sure iv blasted it with condensation a time or 2. but this sensor is only like 3,000 miles old. i think the poor placement is what killed it. but the senond i moved it back a foot in the pipe it was 10x worse. i must have damaged it with the welder, got it too hot or something. i welded on the cutouts which were right next to the sensor right after i installed it in its new bung, and ever since its been so much worse then when i had it in its old "further forward" bung.

what i did notice tho, is that even tho its only a mater of time (normally 2 minbutes of driving) before it starts throwing code 8, what i can do that i couldn't do before is put the hammer down and run the motor wide open for an extended period of time which would be kicking out blazing hot egts, and the sensor will not over heat. it will over heat while im sitting at a red light or just driving, something stupid like that. so all i can gather from that is the sensor is definitly bad, and my moving it back in the exhaust did help in keeping it cooler

i could move it to the fuel pump relay, but i think id like it on switch better, i cycle the key on and off too much and it seems silly to be kicking the 02 on and off all the time. the accesory position on my key doesnt work so im always runing out to my truck to put the widnows up and ill put it in the on position, roll the windows up and pull the key out, or ill hit the starter once and it wont start, then ill hit it again and that turns the sensor on and off. these sort of things seem to be pouintless abuse on the sensor.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Something tells me the OEM manufacturers set it up as I stated. that recommendation came direct from Innovate. They more or less stated that failures can occur if you install permanenet as the location is critical. they dont "recommend" a peranent install. I did add the extendo bung same time I moved it back 12 inches. Now it is 15 inch behind collector flange.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Something tells me the OEM manufacturers set it up as I stated. that recommendation came direct from Innovate. They more or less stated that failures can occur if you install permanenet as the location is critical. they dont "recommend" a peranent install. I did add the extendo bung same time I moved it back 12 inches. Now it is 15 inch behind collector flange.

Drumer919

DONT put it on a switch, if you run the engine with the sensor off carbon can build up on the element, that cant happen when the sensor is on and heated.

That info is direct from bosch.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

BINGO ! My first install was powered by the cig lighter and the on-off switch on the controller. OK for short term use but not good for perm install. I also have the DB gauge on pillar and that is very handy to check out AE and PE but PE can scare me!

Drumer919

Has anyone tried the o2 extenders from ebay? They look similar to the extended heat sync one above but they only have a single hole in the bottom and dont cost $90.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Try an 18mm spark plug anti-fouler. I know they fit the NGK sensors, may fit the Bosch sensor.

RBob.

chevy1500z71

well i swapped out the sensor for my old ome and its beter in some ways and worse in others. i can cruise around all day long without it over heaiting, but if i accelerate even close to hard, or decelerate, or anything odd, it will throw an inacurate reading and eventualy throw code 8. this is the sensor that ran for a month in the pipe with a dead lc1 melted over the header not giving it any power. so im surew this sensor is bad as well.

i hope the lc1 itself is fine, im going to order some kind of heatsink or extender(undecided on which i want) and a new sensor and see how it goes.

i might still put it on a switch, but i understand what you guys are saying, never switch it off while the motor is running. i would leave it on all the time since it would be hooked to the ignition wire, but just use it to turn it off if i find myself cranking on the truck multiple times to get it started, or something like that. i just like the idea of being able to over ride the ignition power, like if iv got the key in just to listen to the radio, no need to have the sensor on.

it really sucks having this thing act up all the time because iv got the simulated narrow band signal off of the lc1 wired to my ecm in place of the stock narrow band.

???

iTrader: (5)

i like that idea.. could tack weld a few big washers on it as heat sinks.

if it fits ofcourse

chevy1500z71

after soem quick research, it looks like a few spark plug anti foulers like rbob said above will do the trick. in order to move the bung further back i had to remove the short peice between the colector and the cutout, when i put it back in i welded it to the cutout. its in such i tight spot that there is no way i will ever be able to weld on it again unless i cut the pipe out. so for now, ill make an extendo bung out of spark plug anti foulers. this whole exhaust system is going to go soon enough, but i need to do something for now and the spark plug anti foulers are the perfect solution

thanks for the tip rbob.

???

iTrader: (5)

if you probe thru your fuse box with a test light, you will find something that has power only with the key forward but not while cranking. so you can turn the key backwards for acc like radio and cranking it wont have power. using that to trigged a relay straight to the battery. when the sensor heater needs a lot of power, like really rich and warm up. it can pull a lot of power. start your wideband up with logworks running sometime and see what the battery voltage drops to while warming up without the car running. it can help you know if you have a good power and ground for the heater.

chevy1500z71

iv never hooked it up to log works. i have no serial port on my computer. i just read my air fuel on a moates o-meter. iv got it powered off of the fuse block right now, its on when the key is on and loses power while cranking, as does everything like normal.

i dont think i have any issues with power... its worked fine for a few years, all my problems started occurring with my new motor probably because of hotter egts.

Drumer919

Does it effect the reading?

chevy1500z71

this is somehting that iv been wondering myself, mainly because the spark plug anti fouler trick is from ***** guys using them after removing there cats, they say it keeps you from getting the ses light for no cats. so it clearly can change a reading on a stock sensor. but innovate sells and recommends the use of there extendo bung(which is no different then a few spark plug anti foulers) which leads me to believe there must be a difference in the wide band and the narrow band. i know for one thing that i can move my wide band any where in the exhaust and it seems to read the same.

hopefully someone else can chime in here with some answers.

edit: lol, i guess i cant say r!cer, it bleeps it out like a curse word.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I hear the WB02 sensor is very accurate and I suspect very sensitive to changes in ext content. As long as it sees any part of ext I am confident it reads accurate. I believe the reason the Innovate is so costly is because it is stainless steel/machined. The bung that you weld in is SS so the extender I believe must also be SS. I recall Bosch uses some sort of anti sieze compound in the sensor that wount foul the sensor. An extendo made of reg steel will most likely seize the sensor to it.

???

iTrader: (5)

innovate has a message board, if you do some searches around over there they explain why it doesn't matter if the wideband is in the exhaust flow or not. it will still read right. for 2 strokes where theirs oil in the exhaust and race gas, they say you have to get the sensor out of it. for it to live at all.

chevy1500z71

who the hell would use it on a 2 stroke lol. 2 strokes are easy, look at the top of the plugs, chop a plug, you can almsot jet one by feel.

ill check out the message board, cant believe i didn't think of that.

picked up a few spark plug anti foulers today and i ordered a new 02 sensor. this sensor that iv got in there seems to be getting beter and beter the more i drive, as if it was all carboned up from being run with no power for so long and its starting to clean up. either way, iv got a new sensor coming, maybe ill milk this one with my ******* extendo bung untill i re do the whole exhaust system which will be hopefully soon. on my next exhaust system maybe ill switch to the heatsink, or maybe ill just keep the regular extendo bung idea. larger diameter pipe should run a little cooler anyway so ill see how it goes.

EDIT: apparently the word rednek is not allowed either lol

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Quote: who the hell would use it on a 2 stroke lol.
Me. County Champion Snowmobile Improved stock class 600cc triple Arctic Cat 96 MPH radar 1/4 mile.
Actually I ran Digitron EGT(3) but you get the idea.

chevy1500z71

lol, damn, ya got me! thats pretty cool actually, i bet you can jet that thing spot on, but idk how the sensor would live in that oily environment. you run the sensor past the stinger right, not in the expansion chamber?

iv got a sled motor in my golf cart(yea, its pretty mad max lookin), it runs hot as hell in florida, its an old fanner, basically under a box with no air flow, and to make it worse, the pipe is right in front of the fan. so i run it rich, an 02 sensor would never live.

???

iTrader: (5)

what we posted about where to put it in a 2 stroke exhaust was in the header tube, on the inside(backside) of a sharp turn and use an extender to get it even farther away from the flow.

how long I don't know, but that was the idea to help it last.

chevy1500z71

i guess that would make sense, but wouldn't your readings be false with an expansion chamber pipe. i mean your going to be reading the exhaust coming out after combustion which wold be accurate, but once your in the power band, the pipe goes into resonance and your getting a fuel charge from the pipe, so wouldnt the readings be all off?

reading the a/f ratio after the chamber would probably be way off too tho.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I run an EGT. Made by Digitron. triple pipe. each lead is about 7 inch from face of piston. Reads deg F or C. has capability to read peak deg and will do a playback if wanted. Can run an output to a light that you can set to trigger at any temp(ie(1350F).
Indestructible as far as controller and probe. I think probes can survive almost any temp.