Liquid_Metal

I have an '89 GTA with the lb9 305 TPI engine and manual transmission.
I have already replaced these parts: sparkcoil, spark control module, dist cap, rotor, sparkcables and plugs.
The starter turns but there is no spark at the coil. The computer gives no problem codes. What could still be the cause of the fact that it gets no spark at coil?
Any help is appreciated, thanks.

Apeiron

Does the fuel pump run after you crank?

Liquid_Metal

Yes it runs and there's definately gas coming to the engine. So that's not it.

What else could it be?
If it were pass key problems it wouldn't turn at all, right? And what about flywheel sensor, does the car run badly when that one is gone or doesn't it start up at all? Are there any relays that could be the problem?

Apeiron

There is no flywheel sensor. If the fuel pump is running for 2 seconds after you stop cranking, then the pickup coil is good. Do you have voltage at the coil primary?

Liquid_Metal

Well if there is no flywheel sensor that is eliminated as a problem.

I can't hear the pump running after cranking. It definitely runs when I turn the key to just the power position, although not every time. Is it supposed to run two seconds after every cranking?

Where is the pickup coil exactly? Can anyone show a pic or give a link to a pic where this coil is or what it looks like or both? And what is the coil primary? English isn't my native language so I don't know the correct terms.
But we have tried hooking the sparkcoil directly to a sparkplug with a cable and it gave no spark during cranking.

I noticed a cable connector is a bit fried just near the distributor. Can anyone identify what this connector is? And if this could be the problem? I have attatched a pic of this.

Thanks for your help!

Apeiron

Yes, the fuel pump needs to run for 2 seconds after every cranking. The pickup coil is inside the distributor under the ignition module.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Since you have no spark at the spark plugs when cranking,..... work your way back into the car ( all the way to the fusebox . ignition switch if you have to ! ) until you find power again.

Nothing at plugs? Then check the coil wire-to-cap connection.
Nothing at coild wire-to-cap? Check Coil-to-coil wire connection.
Nothing there, Now check the Pink wire leading from coil to distributor ( Key ON !)
Nothing there, Check the pink wire from the harness to the coil. ( Key ON ! )

You want to be sure that the Pink wire from the harness to the coil ( and from the coil to the distributor ) is showing 12 volts when the key is in the RUN position. If there isn't 12 volts on the BATery circuit than you can change every piece under the hood and still not have spark !

NINÅ

Liquid_Metal

Okay thanks for the help. There seems to be current coming to the spark coil. But apparently not out. Is that possible?

Since the fuel pump does not run 2 seconds after cranking I'm assuming it could be the pickup coil and am proceeding to buy one and get the old one replaced.

What are usually the "symptoms" of a bad pickup coil?

And does anyone know what connector it is in the pic I attached above?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

If you have voltage to the remote coil and no voltage from it - then replace the coil FIRST. (I'd recomend any aftermarket performance coil ) You need spark to the cap before looking for any other problems to fix !

IIRC there is a fuel pump cut-off on the oil pressure switch..... no oil pressure - no fuel pump. If your not making spark the car will not fire or produce any oil pressure. The oil pressure switch might not be allowing voltage to the fuel pump as a result.

Just start with replacing the remote coil and try to fire it up ! If it doens't star THEN start dealing with other possible issues.

Apeiron

That's not an indication that the coil is bad.

The oil pressure switch doesn't "allow" voltage to the pump. It's a bypass to the fuel pump relay.

He's already tried replacing the coil.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

If there's 12 volts coming into the coil from the harness and no voltage going out to the distributor,.......... What DOES that mean ?? I just installed a brand new - from the box - distributor that was dead 2 weeks ago. Even new parts can be defective and his replacement might not have even been new.

IIRC the fuel pump relay only energizes the pump for a few seconds when the key is turned to "RUN". ( builds pressure in the fuel system.) It's not a constant power source for the pump - corerrct ?? Once the Key is turned to START and the engine cranks, oil pressure builds and the fuel pump cut-off switch "switches" sending 12 volt power thru Tan/White wire to the MAF, FP relay and fuel pump.

The relay and the switch are 'hot' at all times. Since the relay only energizes the pump itself for a couple seconds something else needs to supply power to the pump. No oil pressure - no fuel pump. Disconnect your oil pressure switch on a TBI, TPI, or MPFI and try to start the car. I'll bet the pump will only run for a few seconds and then quit. It's not a Bypass........ It's a safety so that the fuel pump will not run if the engine isn't building oil pressure.


Fuel pump is still completely irrelevant IMO. The car will never start without the coil sending 12 volts along the BAT terminal to the distributor. Once you get 12 volts to the distributor and spark at the end of your plug wires - then worry about the next problem.

jake.sala

hi there, i just had that problem.. i have a 91 camaro 50 TBI, and i had all of the symptoms that youre having, i had to change the computer, maybe its that

good luck

Apeiron

It means that power is getting to the coil, nothing more. In a Kettering ignition, the coil is normally energized, and power is interrupted to create the spark. If the pickup coil or ignition module (or points in a conventional distributor) were bad, it would be perfectly normal to have +12V at all times on the coil primary. The circuit has to be seen to be interrupted during cranking with no spark output to conclude that the coil is bad.

No, the fuel pump relay is always engaged wile the engine is running, and always powers the pump. The oil pressure switch is only a backup to power the pump in case the relay fails, not a safety switch. The fuel pump will run perfectly happily all day long without the oil pressure switch even installed, as long as the relay remains energize by the ECM. The ECM will energize the fuel pump relay as long as it receives reference pulses from the distributor, and for 2 seconds after the last pulse disappears.

Liquid_Metal

I'm trying to find a pickup coil on the internet but no sellers seem to ship to Finland. I usually find parts on ebay but can't find this one. I've been searching for "firebird pickup coil" but there are very few results for an actual pickup coil and those are for v6, and most results are just the regular ignition coil. What part number should I be looking for if it can't be found under Firebird?

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

Being in Finland will make getting parts more difficult for you. If you find a "pick up coil" seller on E-Bay Than check to see if he is just a seller - or a parts supplier. If It's just a guy selling his stuff you might be out of luck - but if it's a supplier than contact them and request correct the part directly. A supplier might have what you need and should be willing to ship international once you make contact.


P.S.
Very cool,... I had always believed that the relay only ran the pump for a couple seconds with the turn of the key - then it quit ( timer ) and turned over control of the pump to the switch..... I learned something new ! My whole understanding of what that switch is for was wrong ! The only time I had to deal with one I installed a 2 pin from an 88 into a 91 that needed a 3 pin; The pump was good but had no oil pressure readings.

NINÅ

Liquid_Metal

Hmmmm.... cant find a pickup coil for my car on that address. Does it come under other names as well? If so what? Thanks guys for the help!!

89-bird

Here you go STD-LX342 is the part# from there site . Your Welcome in advance .

Liquid_Metal

Yes thanks for the help with the pickup number!

If I would like to get a new ECM while I'm at it, what should I be looking for? This is the number on it:16198445. Will searching for this suffice or do I need other details as well to get the correct ecm? Since I'm the third owner of the car there is no way for me of being sure this ecm is the original or correct model. And should I get one that is brand new (if they are made still) or used? Thanks!