the blue one

88 305 tbi, stock other than sawzall exhaust (headers only) and flipped cleaner lid....
the short- i replaced my whole ignition system except the distributor, set timing, and the car still not start without revving it to 6km rpm holding the starter.

this all started (5 years ago?) with replacing the cap, rotor, and wires, which i feel like is going to be really important for some reason. i didnt break anything or unplug the distributor. i did this just out of regular maintenance, not knowing when the last time this was done.

everything was alright until it wasnt about 500 miles later. it started kicking and bucking like a horse, missing all over the place. i started it at night and found that the new plug wires were leaking/arcing onto the block. i swapped back to the old plug wires, but now i get a crank, a fire, and then it stops. i can however start the car if i rev it to 6k holding the starter. what a horrific experience.
i started with the basics, inspected cap/rotor. everything checks out. replaced the coil, twice. tightened/greased all of the sp wire connections. checked all of the surrounding wiring for possible shorts, checked connectors. gave up. car has sat for years but im done looking at a non running car, so i replaced gas, got it started the same way, flooring it while holding the starter. it runs okay when it runs and idles normally, between 600-750 with a very slight (50rpm?) irregular bounce. it always did that. reinspected all of the wires, cap, rotor, replaced the coil again, and then realised im back to step 1, with the car not wanting to start and nothing easy and obvious wrong with it.

i got the bright idea to reset base timing, from researching on here. i found it about 6 degrees retarded with the es* wire unplugged. i set it to 4 advanced with the es* wire (brown long connector passenger firewall) unplugged. it started great! sounded better than ever, started right up like it was a brand new car. idled at around 2k, went down to 1200 warmed up and would not drop any lower. then i realized you should set timing warmed up and figured maybe that had something to do with the high idle.. back in i go, resetting it to 4 advanced on a warm engine. life is great. the car starts, no ping, no knock. until i reconnected the es* wire. right back to the original problem, and even worse, now it is knocking like a jahovas witness when it does start. immediately turned it off, unplugges es* wire, started and ran great again but with high idle. reset to factory 0 degrees base timing figuring that i advanced the timing too far for 87 octane, plugged esc wire back in, and i have the same exact starting issue i started with, but no knock. checked base timing a g a i n with the es* wire unplugged and its steady 0.

im at the end of my knowledge and own ability of how to diagnose and repair this. i do not have an aldl cable or software, or a laptop to see what the ecu is seeing, but i know i have the capability to replace sensors, check resistance, etc.
from what i read, it could be the knock sensor, distributor, distributor pickup, esc or est. worst case ecu, which would be weird to me since it runs fine with the es* wire unhooked, except for the high idle. to me it seems like a module is reacting to a condition that is not there and changing the timing when it doesnt need changed. im hoping someone here could at least help me with finding my new step 1 diagnosing this issue. a hope, wish, and prayer on a $160 distributor seems like a huge waste if im not certain that it is the problem...maybe the arcing plug wires destroyed the distributor? or a module? how can i check?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

"Timing", changed or not, will not cause a no-start.

ESC module will not cause a no-start.

You're not "revving it to 6k" at any time. Your tach is fornicated like everybody else's, and reads WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY high. Probably at least twice the actual engine speed.

Most likely you have a fuel problem. Low fuel pressure, dirty injectors, that sort of thing.

What happened when you did the obvious and "rebuilt" the injectors? (took em apart, soaked the pieces in lacquer thinner overnight, put em back together with all new paper & rubber)

The car will run ALOT better with ALOT more "timing" than the factory spec. Keeping in mind of course, that the factory spec was chosen for emissions reasons, compatibility with any kind of fuel that it might have run into in 1989 (VERY different from 2023), emissions, CAFE, emissions, ability to deal with any altitude it might encounter from sea level to 15,000 ft within the same day (yes I've done that), emissions, wide range of temperatures, emissions, typical grocery-cart (grandma) type concerns like NVH, emissions, ... and... oh, I forgot to mention, EMISSIONS. If none of those things are of dominant importance to you, then set it to wherever it runs the best for YOU, where YOU drive, how YOU drive it, on the fuel YOU can buy, optimizing what's important to YOU. Which might be some/any combination of best power, best fuel economy, crisp throttle response, cool running temps especially cruising, or any number of other things that might be affected, ... YOU get to decide. Most people who are willing to de-enslave themselves from unenlightened slavery to "book" nowadays set theirs anywhere from 10 to 15° BTDC, some even more than that. The "factory spec" is raw unadulterated unvarnished unmitigated unalloyed BULL PLOP.

Meanwhile, your "problem" is fuel related. Not enough fuel getting where it needs to get to when it needs to get there. Might want to check your fuel filter also, at the same time you "rebuild" your TB.

And BTW, turn your air cleaner lid back over right. If you look closely, you'll readily observe that having it flipped puts the center of it (conical shaped) almost touching the TB, thereby RESTRICTING the airflow even worse than it already is. While all that lovely sound recalibrates your butt dyno and makes you think you're gonna fill the cup right after flipping it, it actually SLOWS THE CAR DOWN.

the blue one

I didnt think of fuel being the issue at all. Ill give it a shot. Im sure it could use some attention anyway, being that as far as i know the only maintenance every done to the fuel system is a fuel fulter replacement in 2016

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

EEEeeeeeezzzzzzy enough to test for a fuel-related no-start. So eeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyy, even a caveman like myself can do it.

Shoot a bit of starting fluid (or pour some gasoline, or some MEK, or lacquer thinner, or acetone, or anything else similarly flammable ...) into the throttles; thus, supplying FUEL. If it starts up right, then you instantly know, it's a fuel problem; since putting in some fuel solved it.

IMO a no-start is the EEEEEEZZZZZZZIIIIIEST kind of malfunction to troubleshoot. A "runs-like-crap" can be harder. (sometimes) Butt a no-start, ... is a no-brainer. And since I have no brain, that's right up mu alley.