TransAmman87

I have a situation here. I decided to go ahead and spend the extra money to go with a 350 because my little old 305 was basically wore out and needed some major work done on it. I took it to an engine shop in Xenia, OH and ordered all that I needed to have them do the swap. Everything seemed to be in order and so work began. Now the new engine is in the car and they are having major problems with it. Its missing big time and they believe that its either injectors or the computer. I asked at the time whether the 305 injectors would work and the guy said yes. He is a reputable guy that does a lot of work on race engines and such. But they just don't know what is causing my car to run badly. All I know is that, these little hiccups are costing me more money on something that I had a budget for. So it could either be injectors or the computer. I'm at a loss because this goes beyond what I know about cars. I decided to post this just as a experience. I thought that it would be simple switching of parts, replacing some parts, and putting the engine back in. This just sucks because its been two weeks without my car.

Bimma86

Well to put it bluntly, it is your injectors and computer. You need the correct ECM with the correct L98 chip for that specific year if it's a stock swap. The injectors used on the L98's stock were 22lbs not the 19's that were on your 305. Is this a MAF car or SD, if it's a SD you definately need the correct equipment, MAF is a little more foregiving...

TransAmman87

Yeah, I definitely figured those would be the problems. I just picked up my car today and they had a diagnostic computer running and were trying to tune the car just to rule out anything. They suggested I take my car to someone that does everything with car electronics so they can collaborate back and forth in trying to diagnois the problem. Its just a pain in the butt because I asked about all this earlier and was told things would be fine. My poor car is running so rough right now I can't really drive it, so its gonna sit until I can get it in to this shop, hopefully Wednesday morning. I did find a set of Accel 24lb Injectors for $229 from Jegs which I may go ahead and get. I don't really know what else to say, except I will keep this updated because this is important stuff.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I say no way no how. Something else is screwed up.

305 MAF computer and 19 lb injectors would not cause a 350 to run rough at idle. It's probably something simple like crossed wires or cracked distributor cap. If they agreed to do the engine swap and get it running properly, then they'd better be paying for this "car electronics" specialist to sort it out.

TransAmman87

You make a very very valid point, but they will not pay for me to send my car to this place. They went back through and checked the wires a couple of time to make sure things were as they should be, and they said they were. When I went and finally got it, they just didn't have a clue. I was just getting tired of not having my car and told them that I would take it to this guy so that both companies could collaborate to troubleshoot whats wrong with the engine. Its going to turn into a team effort to make my car run right. I take it in on Friday morning so till then, I wait. I'll post the findings when I find out!

TransAmman87

Running into more problems with this engine... this sucks. What is happening is that upon accelerating from a low RPM, the engine backfires and loses power, almost wants to die. Once you get moving a bit, the backfiring goes away until I get on it again, the engine just boggs down. I have taken it to a very respectable repair shop and they have replaced some things that were giving trouble codes... they even changed the spark plugs and this seemed to help for a couple of days but now my car is running like crap again and no one knows why... the engine shop I took it too is almost blowing me off so I am stopping payment on the engine until they really help me... Does anyone have any ideas on what could possibly be causing these problems, the backfiring and power loss basically when accelerating? This is driving me nuts because a guy in a Geo Metro out accelerated me at a stop light because my car wanted to stall...

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

vacuum leak in the TPI itself

check to make sure all the bolts are tight and that all your hoses are hooked up.

TMX

I'd look at the fuel pressure under load as well.

-b

86Tuned_port

Check to see if ALL the ground wires are hooked up. There are two behind the motor that bolt to the heads and then one that bolts to the firewall. There is also one that should go from the battery to the radiator support. If ANY of these wires are not hooked up, then the car will do funny things. Everything the computer controls is activated by grounding the component, so if there is no/too little of ground the computer will be try to ground everything though too little of connection. Also make sure no wires are smashed between the tranny and the engine. Where are you in OH?

TransAmman87

I am in Kettering, just outside of Dayton... I called the engine shop that did the swap and asked them to go ahead and check everything to make sure they put things back together right... they told me to bring it in on Thursday... so I will post what they find and do to hopefully fix the problems...

CamarosRUS

good luck, i know this stuff sucks. but defenitly check your grounds, all your vacuum connections, check the distributor, coil, and wires again, and eventully you need to get the right injectors and a chip for this engine (but i dont think thats the main cause for this).

also since you said the plus helped for a couple days check to make sure all the plugs are still in working order and not fouled out already....if they are in fact bad already then you have a lead.

TransAmman87

I am having a problem getting a new chip... do I need to upgrade the computer or just find another chip... I went searching and found used computers on Hawks website for $50, is this something I should purchase? And when talking about chips, I don't know exactly what I am looking for, my dad and I switched the computer from his GTA 350 into mine just to rule out any problems and it still didn't run right... but I know I need new injectors, EGR valve, and an upgraded computer.... but all that shouldn't make it run the way it is running right now, I just hope they figure out things because I told them to drive the car again and to really check for any vacuum leaks, loose grounds, etc. because I am sick of monkeying around with these people... I have replaced just about everything which was totally unexpected.

CamarosRUS

no you dont really need a whole new computer just a chip to match the motor you swapped in.

kevinc

I'd stay away from Accel injectors...do a search if you want to see why. They have a well-earned bad reputation. Ford SVO blue-top injectors are a good alternative.

Check your distributor advance via the procedure in the Tech Articles section...disconnect the EST connector, hook up your timing light, and see where it's at. Sounds like you're a few degrees retarded from spec based on your description.

Your current computer is the same hardware and part# as the 350 piece, you just need the MEMCAL (which includes the PROM). See if Hawk's or Camaro Heaven have an '87 one available, before shelling out $$ for a "custom" one.

TransAmman87

Ok, not to sound like a complete idiot, but what is a MEMCAL, is that just the prom?...

TransAmman87

Ok, found out what was wrong with my new engine... and it only took the mind of a kid basically (me) against the bunch of so called professionals working on my car... I needed bigger injectors. Yeah, bigger injectors...I spent so much time and money trying to figure out the problem. I did all the work myself, tore the top portion of my engine apart to put the injectors on and it runs fine now... still some slight problems with idle because of the old computer I think. I can't believe I was jerked around by these people when it was a simple fix... I will never recommend this engine building shop to anyone. All I know is that I am hopefully done with any major repairs on this new engine.
Should I go ahead and purchase an 350 computer from Hawks just to finish things up? When I start the car up now, the idle is real high, about 1500 and it stays there until I put the car in drive, is this because of the computer? Thanks for the help everyone!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

While I will believe that changing the injectors solved the problem, I can't believe that the problem was that they were 305 injectors.

I've seen a highly modified ZZ4 (albeit SD with custom PROM, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and at mile high altitude) run just fine with 305 injectors.

But, whatever. Go get an '87 L98 PROM, that should solve the remaining issues.

TransAmman87

Yeah, more than likely I had existing issues with my old injectors, they were original with over 108,000 miles on them, this still should have been checked by the people putting my engine together though, I even asked them about it and they told me not to worry about it . But my next purchase is definitely going to be the new computer. Thanks again everyone...

kevinc

The first guy that replied to your original post directed you to the injectors, but congrats anyway.


Since you're not reading the responses anyway, I'll save the time to clear up the computer issue again.

Your high idle is likely a vacuum leak you created when you reassembled the TPI runners and plenum incorrectly.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You should of just cleaned you're old injectors and purchased an AFPR (if you didn't have one already)... then simply raise fuel pressure until the idle evened out.

Clean you're IAC, and double check the TPS setting...

Don't buy a new computer if your's is okay, you're throwing money away.

As for that high idle, are you throwing any codes, 33, for instance? If not, it's probably a vacuum leak (like Kevin stated), or a very dirty/sticky IAC.

TransAmman87

In response to kevinc, your comment on not reading the responses is sadly wrong just to let you know. I take personal offense to it. The only reason I said that it "took a kid" was because I, not anyone else, was arguing with these people who would not listen to me. I have taken every suggestion that has been posted on here and talked with the people at the engine shop and they laughed at me. So I decided to do things for myself, not waste any more money dicking around with them and did the work myself. It happened that the suggestions on here were correct. And I did reassemble the TPI correctly again, better than the people at the shop did, because I found alot of problems...
Besides, I am not a mechanic, I don't know a lot about engines and totally how different setups work on the TPI
I don't think I should be throwing a code 33 because I put in a new MAF right after the engine was put in, it is OEM.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It doesn't necessarily have to be a faulty MAF when you get a Code 33. There very common when you tug/pull on the wires in the connectors (on either the MAF Sensor, Burnoff or Power relay's)...

So you found the culprit? Was it a vacuum leak?

TransAmman87

sorry I didn't finish my last post... I had to run to class... anyway, when I had my car in and they ran a diagnostic test, it came up with a code 34... we looked and it meant a runnning change error, I assume that it is the chip, but everything is all sealed up and tight... when I was messing around with the fuel rails though, the possibility of bumping the fuel pressure *** was likely... I am still going to check the TPS though and take it in one last time to a good shop locally just to make sure of things... would a hypertech chip work, because I am having a very hard till tracking down a L98 chip, I had no luckfrom a Pontiac/Chevy dealership locating one...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yes, do the basic stuff first. Double check you're TPS position, and re-adjust you're Idle Air Control. With the engine running, spray some Carb cleaner around by the throttle body, runners and intake bolts. If idle speed increases in a certain area, you've found you're vacuum leak (if it's vacuum, that is).

Hypertech chips are honestly worth crap for a stock TPI, but if you have you're heart set on a new chip... check on eBay. Try to find a stock chip for an 89 TPI, and eliminate that cold start injector. Too much clutter underneath the hood, no?

K3000

In a post entitled "91' 305 vin F to... WHAT ??? " a few days ago, I was asking what my options are for upgrading from the LB9 305 to a 350 of some kind. I was aying that I would greatly prefer to reuse most of the TPI parts and not have to make major mods to the fuel system or computer/wiring harnass.

five7kid recommended I check out this guy here:

http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com

I think I talked to one of the owners, and everything he said sounded really good. One thing he said was that they put a new cam in that allows their remanufactured L98 to run 280-300HP without ANY major mods. He told me today that when they used to have an install shop he personally swapped several LB9's for L98's and they ran FINE with the 19lb injectors and the computer from the LB9 without a new PROM or anything. Based on what i'm reading and my experiences in the automotive world, it seems that a lot of these issues arise from pre-existing problems or problems directly related to the re-installation work.

Can anyone vote for me if the L98 will run halfway okay before I re-calibrate the computer, and if they are any other parts that have to be changed in such a swap? I heard about upgrading the MAF, and I have NO CLUE what the SD is ??? The person said "is it a MAF car or an SD car in that post."

The guy I talked to also mentioned that he heard that some of the NAPA stores can "update" your computer for about $75 with all of the latest GM updates. I don't know anything more about that at this point, but the guy really seemed to know what he was talking about...

Obviously, i'd really like to hear from TransAmman87 directly how his car is doing now. I'd also like to know what kind of HP he wants his car to make with the new 350, I would be very happy to see 275-325.

Also, thanks to five7kid for suggesting the L98. If it can make the same HP or better than the stock 260HP LT1 in my 95 Caprice, then why do a complicated LT1 swap??? I don't understand that. I know the LT1 is an AWESOME engine, but i'm looking at cost vs. benefit here...

Lee B.

TransAmman87

Hey K3000, my car was running great up until today..lol... It appears that my alternator may be going out on me, just something else to replace... I am still having some running problems slightly, I am having my whole distributor looked at because there seem to be some issues there... I may have to do a ignition system upgrade to keep up with the 350... sadly, I am no where near 275 horses, I would like at least 245, in all honesty, my old 305 felt alot stronger... though ... I also kept the 305 cam too ...definitely because of the little problems here and there is causing it to feel like this I think. I am just about out of stuff to replace with the engine, the only thing left to change on my car is the transmission and I can never afford that now! I recommend that people just buy a crate motor and not worry about having an engine built from scratch, because this is an absolute nightmare...

K3000

Hi TAMan87:

I'm SO sorry that you are having so many issues. This is why I am so leary of doing anything but putting it back together 100% stock. But, I really don't want to spend all that money and have the same 305 LB9 that I had before.

I hope your issues get resolved eventually. As far as the alternator, I am NO stranger to that issue. These cars eat alternators for breakfast, i've had them go in as little as 18 months. The NAPA ones seem to be a little better quality, but it is definately a known weak link. What symptoms are you having with that?

Also, what parts did they want you replace other than the injectors and the prom that had to be replaced as a direct result of going from the 305 to the 350?

I hope things get better for you soon. Are you up over $4000 yet?

Lee B.

Dark Mavis

TransAmman87: I would really like to know how much money you spent over the course of this swap - the money that wasnt needless, that is. I am considering a 305 to 350 carbed swap, so I would just like a few opinions on what to expect - afterall, I too am just a kid who's paying for college courses, insurance, blah blah blah - and I offer a limited budget. Thanks.

kboehringer

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bimma86

Bimma86,

Sorry don't actually have any data or good advice to add to this topic. We've just been looking around finding info and trying to learn but I must say.......

THAT IS ONE ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL CAR!
THAT IS ONE ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL CAR!
THAT IS ONE ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL CAR!

My son and I are working his '82 Z-28. I hope it turns out 1/2 that nice.

Sincerely,
Kurt

TransAmman87

Well, in regards to money issues, the engine swap itself came out to about $3800 for everything, labor, block, Edelbrock parts, just the essentials... Everything else has cost me probably well over another grand ... stuff that I should have been informed of by the engine shop...

Dark Mavis, being a college student sucks! lol... I was fortunate enough to have access to a credit card for this swap so I can pay it off slowly , basically I sold my soul for my car... just remember to expect the unexpected, fixing the radiator, getting new sensors, upgraded chip, thermostat, whatever kind of performance parts you want to get... If I were you, since you are doing a carbed swap, I would go for a crate motor, hind sight being 20/20, I think I should have done that instead... I am only 22 and this whole project has taught me one of the biggest financial lessons of my life so far...
Doing an engine swap shouldn't scare anyone, because it is worth it if you want more out of your car, my experience is definitely different from others so no one should take what has happened to me and think that it will happen to them

K3000

transamman87:

I'm very impressed with you that you are telling other people not to be deterred by your experience. I look at it this way. If you were going to try to replace your car with a new car with similar horsepower and features (like T-Tops), it would cost you 18-30k plus higher insurance costs. I was told a long time ago that there is almost a direct relationship between how long you hold onto your cars and how much money you'll have when you're 50-60. I heard it's not unreasonable to gain 100k or more in twenty years. if you keep all your cars 10 years or longer instead of getting new (or new used) ones every 2-4 years. Usually keeping and fixing what you have is much more cost effective, even with todays unreasonably high labor rates and parts prices.

Also, when the dust settles a little on your engine job, you should check out these guys at:

http://www.pcmforless.com/

They seem to be very highly regarded on www.impalassforum.com . I talked to Alvin last night, and he said he could burn you a chip that would be optimized for the parts that you used to maximize your engine's output. This might work out a lot better for you than a stock L98 chip, if you could even find one! heh heh

Please tell me about your cam. Did they use the same cam in the 350, and if not, why did you decide to re-use it? I don't know a lot at all about cams, and i'm trying to learn.

Keep on workin' on that engine...

Lee B.