SScott

QwkTrip, my car is a V6'r also, so maybe I will have the same luck as you.

SScott

I'm still broke...

I got my crank back from the machine shop, it looks nice.
I got my Venolia dome tops and forged rods in from eBay.
I also got my Centerline Telstars in. I like em. 15x10's w/ 5" BS w/ 295 50R Tires and 4"r's in the front.

I am posting a few pics of the project. It is real nasty and it was just about dark outside. When I start on the engine I will post a few.

Thanks to everyone for the help and inspiration.

Irockz

iTrader: (1)

Man,I need to live in Alabama,a car that slick for 5 bills.
Love your tire/wheel combo,I have the exact same setup on my car.Those rear 10s fit like a glove,don't they?!
Just a word to the wise,be ready to invest in some sticky rubber,I had the 295/50 radial setup on the back of mine when I went to a bigger inch smallblock,and while they hooked as good or better than any true radial I've ran,that torque still eats em' alive.I'm running 325/50 Mickey drag radials now,but slicks would be much better.I'm confident that a strong bigblock will be even more of a challenge to hook.
Not trying to be a knowitall,just been there already.

SScott

Irockz,
I thought I got a pretty good deal. It has near perfect black interior.
You're right, they fit nice. I really like em.
I will be cautious for a while on the hookn up. I still have the stock rear setup and prolly will for a while(although I have a still weak 3:73 posi setup I could put in). After I get it broke in, I plan on running some type of street slick at the track on Friday's and see what breaks loose...Tires or parts...

Oh, and by the way: I know you are not being a knowitall. I more than welcome any and all input and advice or experiance. It makes my day to be able to talk car stuff on here. I don't have the first friend that is into cars like me, other than my cousin who has a...Honda Civic... and yes, he does have those 1 million dollar coffee can mufflers and a whale tail to boot. Oh well, I will still claim him.

SScott

I am still broke doin that family thang. I would'nt have it any other way...except maybe the broke part

If it does'nt rain tomorrow, I am going to install my S10 box and take some pics of the engine on the stand.

JoBy

Have you considerd TPI style fuel injection? The 1996-2000 vortec-7400 has a quite low profile and might clear the hood.

Having the throttle on the side makes it quite low profile near the front where it is closest to the hood.



I have serached for a while and now I have some good pictures of the intake.





The plenum is the big 'donut' wher the throttle body is and it also fills the length of the lower half of the intake. The runners go up over and into the heads on the opposite side. Almost like an upside down TPI. The runners are siamesed the first half.

SScott

No but I LIKE it!

Maybe after I get it all together I will give that a shot for another project. That would be kewl.

Thanks for the idea

SScott

New Update... I am still broke
I had to sink some hard earned cash into my house. I could of finished my car but oh, well.

Here a few pics of the project in progress:

AC398

build looks good so far im doing something similar putting a 454 in my 89 GTA, but lookin at those pictures man, I widsh i had your family j/k, but you dont even know how much my parents would kill me if i put my pistons on their bookshelf or had a engine stand on the hardwood, dont even wanna thnk about how long id be lectured for that. **** i cant even use a 3 x 5 spot w/o bitching about how i need to clean it up and make room for the "Mercedes" POS. But nice build you got going im a keep following it since youre ahead of me right now, hopefully youll install yours before june when mine should be ready for install so i could get some info on the install. Either way keep it up man

Nocturnall

While I would search for an answer to this I can't cause it's not working. I'm looking to do a 350 or a 396 swap into my v6 firebird. My father in law says the 396 is gonna be a big pain to get to fit but from what I'm gathering here it won't be. I'm wondering though first what do I need to to do the body to get it to stand up to the motor? Sub Frame connectors and that's it? Should I get inner and outter SFC's? I got a rear end from a 94 350 6 spd car so that would hopefully stand up to it for a while.... Next would a 6spd bolt up to the 396? I really want to go 396 but my father in law who's gonna be walking me through this really doesn't think it's the way to go....

SScott

AC398 - Thanks for the words! My wife lets me get away with it. I don't know how? We don't use that room, maybe that helps. I am hoping to have it in by June. I will follow up as soon as I do some more.

Nocturnall - If the 6spd will bolt up to an average small block (350) then it will bolt up to the 396. From the research I have done, everyone has a different opinion on all the requirements of putting a BBC in a 3rd gen but when it boils down to it what really matters is how much HP/TQ are you looking at? Then if the numbers are high, it would be the same with a BBC as a SBC. As far as the physical aspect of it. I think a BBC is about 150 lbs more than a SBC so front springs should be all you must have. Those other items you mentioned are great to have either way you go if you can afford it.

Seeing how this is all based on my opinion... I think it would be a wiser decision to go with your Father-N-Laws advice considering the amount of help and energy he will be giving.

Nocturnall

Thing is I'd like to hit 500rwhp, something around there. After doing very little research the 396 is like 350hp I think on average, with 1 or 2 variations putting 375hp where as the 350's I've seen are all under 300hp. Not to mention my neighbor has like a 71 Thunderbird with a Big Block and I LOVE how it sounds and he was saying you have to go Big Block for that sound.

Also his only reason for not wanting to do a 396 was because he thought it was gonna be a lot harder to put in then a 350. If the installs basically the same though...

SScott

I am not putting down a big block...Just thinking about it gets me to grining If it is about the HP and you want a BB then why not stroke a 454? That is if you don't already have access to a 396? You can get a nice stroker kit for aroung $1000 or so and make your goal fairly easy. I am hoping for around 400 hp and and add a little NOS to get to the same goal you have of 500HP.

I do like the sound of a free breathing big block my self, not knocking the small blocks though. I have owned several that really sounded nice.

Blackroc86

If you go with a 396 or other BBC and are going to use the Hooker 2226 swap headers go with inboard sfc's. The outboard sfc's are right where the Hooker 2226 collectors come out.

AC398

I second bad rides idea for going w/ a 454 over a 396 unless you already have it. From what ive read and my auto teachers advice, a 454 is just a more powerful engine, i tried finding my book on big blocks to give you some justification but my books in my car and its cold out. And you could always put a stoker kit on it fo a 496 +/-. Im in the process of building a 468 and my combo should put out around 550 hp & 550 ft/lbs, desktop dyno says 600hp/tq but i dont trust it. Anyways this hp is easier to attain w/ a 454 or larger engine as your base. You could do a 454 pretty easy too, for your hp 2 bolt mains are fine, cast crank and rods will work or you can buy eagles i beams for cheap and you want forged pistons. You can pick up a set of cheap oval port heads and a "cheap" solid flat tappet cam & valvetrain. You could probly get all the parts for the motor for about 3k oil pan to carb and itd be reliable, you could drive it every day,just my .02 cents. Either way good luck with your decision

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I used the pulley and brackets off my 87 IROC. The only thing that I have to fabricate is the PS pulley pump bracket which uses the stock v-belt pulley as well.Multigroove on the water pump,alternator(130 amp) and crank.

Nocturnall

I brought it up to my father in law again and told him how it's not much more difficult to put in a 396 and he still didn't like the idea so I agreed to try a 350 first then go from there. There's a guy down the road from me with 2 396's for sale. Which is one of the reasons I was pushing for that again.

AC398

if you wanna still get close to 500rwhp on a 350, supercharge it w/ a weiand 6-71. Cost is like 2700 through summit, and then you just need to buy your engine parts.

SScott

Very wise...Nocturnall

AC398

I have a question about headers for a big block and figured id post here since a lot of members with big blocks look at this thread - not trying to hijack your thread. Im building a 468 and for my heads i ordered gm performance aluminum rectangular port heads and the exhaust port is a d shape. I just looked on summit and saw that hookers full legnths and the Patriot H8012s both have round exhaust port shapes. Will these headers work on the heads? is the round exhaust port larger than the d port so that it would cover it

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

I`m using the merlin rectangles and the exhaust ports are D shaped too, I did a little port matching to make them perfect but used them a year or two as delivered before I did that even, but yes they `ll work.

SScott

AC398 - If I were selling something I may view it as Hi-Jacking. I welcome all who want to ask BB questions on this thread. I can learn from them as well. Thanks for contributing!

maxrochatansky

Hi all. I'm new to this board. Lemme briefly introduce myself : live in Brussels, Belgium. Am driving one of about 15 (only fifteen!) third gen camaros in the country. you couldn't wrestle me in another car anymore even if you were the governator himself :-) Just bought me a 4-bolt 454 big block and a T-56 gearbox. I just hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew :-) I love this thread and will certainly post my adventures with the bbc build shortly. In the meantime, I'm learning by reading about your experiences. Cheerz, and it keep it up !

SScott

Welcome aboard maxrochatansky! WOW, 1 of 15 in the country! I have around 1 of 15,000 in my city ! I bet you have a serious attention getter!

I look forward to hearing about your progress.

Scott

maxrochatansky

thanks , Scott !
Where I live almost no-one knows what a camaro is, when I drive in the city people are looking and staring, and you can tell the question mark on their face : what the hell IS that ? They think it's a Ferrari, but something isn't quite right. It's funny. Even most "car people" here don't know what it is. Here they're all into japanese and german cars. I think it has a lot to do with : FUEL CONSUMPTION :-) Gas is very expensive here, 1.2 euro per liter. I'll try to convert that to your dollars-per-gallon, but it's tricky. I hear there are "imperial gallons" and "us gallons" and they're not quite the same. Anyone who's got some good conversion tables will be able to tell you : gas is EXPENSIVE in Europe. And here I go putting in a big block. Ow yea :-))) Cheerzz

white 86 IROC-Z

man this is really cool i just found these forums tonight and for about a week ive been contemplating a BB conversion i just got the car last month i bought it for 500 the said the fuel pump didnt work i turn the key on and i can hear it run so all i did was change the plugs and bam! started up for me. this car will be my first racecar to build and i love the idea of a big block in a iroc but im catchin alot of flack from some people i know on a different forum that say i cant do it but comin here and seein everyone thats done the conversion and has the know how im not worried about anything now, im smart enough to know the rearend will more than likley have to be changed and im not sure how much hp the world class t5 tranny can hold, isnt it like 400?, i dont know.
what kind of block would you guys suggest, ive been thinkin 396/427 or a 454. nothings definite yet as far as what motor to use but if you guys could help me out a little id appreciate it

Big454blockchevy

How about building a 496 like I am . This big block stroker promises alot of torque at about 10:1 compression it should be very streetable, for me atleast.

AC398

hey does anyone here know of a good forged piston that will give you around a 10-10.5 compression ratio w/ 118cc heads and accepts floating rings. Because I bought a set of pistons with press in rings and the rods are set up for floating pins so i need different pistons now . The problem is Ive called summit and looked on there website for a long time and all that summit says they have are pistons w/ minimum 11:1compression for a 118 cc head. Im still going to deck my 454 to an almost zero deck so the sompression is going up more and Im trying to get around a 10.5. Anyone know of a good piston that woulkd work, the first set i bought were 9.7:1 TRWs that with a zero deck .04 gastket and .06 bore would give about a 10.6:1 ratio, too bad they only accept press in pins. So if anyone knows aof a piston in the range im looking for? itd be a great help. If it matters im running GM performance rectangular port aluminum 118 cc heads.
Thx

SScott

Well I think I have all the stuff I need to finish my car!!!

ChillPhatCat

As it sits with alum. heads the motor probably will weigh in around 600 lbs... stiffer springs will help, My car was originall equipped with a 350 and it's using stock springs and Iron heads (~700 lbs) and ground clearance is pretty low ~2.5" with the Long Tubes... totally different car, but the clearance is gonna probably be about the same in my experience with a 4" exhaust running the length of the underside... even moreso if you go with long tubes.

SScott

AC398 - I wish I knew more about piston vendors. I know you can get any custom piston you want from JE. I would give them a call. I am sure that they will at least point you in the right direction.

ChillPhatCat - for the advice and experiance!

82sleeper

I've researched this swap, and one of my main questions is what kind of spcae is there around the cross member. I've been i'll have to buy a tubular k-member.

SScott

While it would be nice... You don't have to buy a tubular cross member. A little cutting (motor mount) and pounding (sheet metal) will persuade the big un in. Read this LINK for all the info from booboosean.

82sleeper

Thanks for the info. My motor should be done here soon, and I heard that I did need it then I heard from others that I didn't.

maxrochatansky

Hello guys, I finallt found a competent mechanic who will assist me in the engine swap. (Here in Belgium, there aren't too many usa-car skilled mechanics around) Anyway, his major concern is with the headers. Which would be the least complicated to install ? The Patriot headers ( I've read booboosean's posts) , The hooker 2226 headers ( I read on greezemonkeys cardomain page that they arent all that easy either ??? ) , or the Hedman headers ( couldnt find any real info on those ) ... or can anyone recommend something else ? Thanks !

BTW it was quite complicated mating the 454 to the T56 sixspeed transmission. If anyone likes to know more about this, just post a reply, I'll be happy to tell my "adventures"

Irockz

iTrader: (1)

If I were buying new headers,which I assume you will be,I'd go with the Patriots.I just installed the Hookers on my car,and from what I saw in BooBooSean's post,I don't think there is any more modification to make the Patriots work than Hookers.The only drawback I can see is maybe a small sacrifice in performance using a 3/4 length header as oposed to full length.I would love to see a head to head dyno test of these two sets of headers.

maxrochatansky

Thanks for your reply Irockz , well Greezemonkey called them (on his cardomain page) a "cruel joke" that Hooker sells. Would you agree ? I mean, if I spend $500+ on a set of "engine swap" headers , I would like them to also actually FIT without headaches. Thats the only main objection of my mechanic, he wants to help me make the swap but he says he does not want to start cutting up and welding headers anymore. Maybe he's getting burnt-out , I dont know :-) Since I have spent already quite some time and $$$ making this monster happen, I would like to get the maximum horsepower possible from my headers , so I am leaning towards the Hooker headers more than the Patriot ones. Even tho they seem to cost only a fraction of the Hookers.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Well, thier not headers but anyone looking to put a BBC in a f body can use 2003` 8100 avalanche truck manifolds, A member "496chev" used them in his conversion and they fit without issues. They are tubular stainless steel and remind me of old flathead V8 headers here`s the thread...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...ot-my-big.html


pictures are somewhere but not in this thread, but he did post them in one of his, I remember seeing them installed.

maxrochatansky

thanks for the reply greezemonkey. Love what you did with your camaro :-) Actually I had two questions for you : that strut tower brace , what brand is that ? I was thinking I would need to fabricate one because of the BB. And my other question is related to your cardomain page. You have a very clean looking dual exhaust there. On Hooker headers website they claim to offer a complete exhaust for the F-body that goes together with with their super comp headers. I'll contact them about it, because I doubt they actually do (never heard of it) If they dont , could you be interested in fabricating a duplicate of your fine exhaust work for me ( in exchange for some bling-bling off course ) seeing as you already have done it before. I am mainly asking this because I cant weld myself, and my mechanic, as mentioned above, breaks out in a cold sweat at the thought of cutting and welding. I think it must be some childhood trauma :-)) He agreed to build the swap IF he wouldnt have to do the ... yes, exhaust fabrication. So I'll be trying to hand it to him on a silver plate :-) cheerzz.
----------
oh yeah, about the exhaust manifolds ... thanks , but I am really going for every possible horse that's in there !! ;-) Will be using some kind of headers

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Thanks for the compliments, That strut tower brace (3 point) is the edelbrock carb or TBI brace...I had a 2 point on there that I made, I may actually still have it somewhere but, the three point made the car feel like stock again after the coil overs went in.

You know if they had offered an exhaust when I started I would have bought it, I never heard of them making one but I`d probably stay away in fear it would fit like the headers. In all honesty I gotta give them a fair shake, I have merlin heads which have raised exhaust ports (caused alot of the misery) but aside from the headers just being higher up in the chassis, they also were all over the sub body on the passenger side and they really leave you up the creek for using subframe connectors and any kind of street exhaust with the way they exit, I mean they should at least give you a clue as to what they look like before you drop what?...425 now? ( they were 375 when I bought them ) My collector`s were both pointed out board once installed... at least 5 degrees off! which led to heating the collectors and twisting the whole 3 inch tube. What ever you do do not coat them before fitting / using them for a few miles first.
I`ve been asked to duplicate the exhaust in the past and I have even considered it, but man, Belgium? shipping would, well, I don`t even want to think what they would rob you for that. I`d be happy to help you out but you may find it less expensive to have a welder put it togethewr over there, all of the parts are avaliable from any exhaust supplier, mandrel bends in 90 degree and 45 degree and three inch staight pipeing, couple of mufflers and custom made chrome tips..I`ll put a list together of the parts if you want. but yea..3 inch is the way to go even with the tiny 1 7/8 primarys. Oh yea..better port match those hookers too, there`s alot of extra material in the port entrances. Made a nice difference in power after the porting.

maxrochatansky

thanks for the reply ! I've filled out a tech assistance form on the hooker website, so I'll have to see what they say about a complete exhaust setup. Will off course keep everyone here up to speed. I dont really believe they offer complete exhausts, so for the moment I'll assume one will need to be fabd. Yes greezemonkey, youre right, shipping would be hell , and in fact I do know a competent welder here. If there are any pointers you can give about making this dual exhaust, please let me know, I will tell him. cheapest place I found the hookers is jegs , at $429. Actually, when I bought the 454 the guy threw in some headers , he said "99.99% chance they wont fit, because they're from a truck" but I'm keeping them near , hoping to install the BB within a month's time and hey , who knows , maybe these will fit ... you never know :-))) Here's a pic of those headers , and of my beloved 454 and T56 blocking the entire garage. :-) Cant wait !

maxrochatansky

Oh yeah , about the coilover on your cardomain page : I liked those too, so I searched for the profabracing.com website, but these guys seem to have gone off the air (!) I am , alas , fairly ignorant about suspension stuff, so I have to ask ; what are the advantages of having these coilovers vs the regular camaro front suspension ? Do you notice a difference ? (besides that it looks cool :-)) regards, Max

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

I`m assuming you have seen this thread right? https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...l-exhaust.html

Pa or profabs coil over kit leaves a lot to be desired, Spohn`s coil over kits look 100% complete, I`d use it if you went to coil overs, I went with them to eliminate wieght from the front of the car, they seem fine on the street, I`ve been using them 2 yrs now, had spohn had the set up they offer now back then it would have been a lot easier...and you maybe right I can`t seem to find thier website any longer either (profab) I`ll get the exhaust list together and PM you the details about it.

maxrochatansky

Thanks ! If I may bring up another issue : motor mounts. Like a few others here, I am going from V6 to bigblock. I dont count on being able to use the V6 mounts. I am looking around for 5.7L V8 82-92 mounts, because that is what people seem to be using.Can anyone recommend some ? The original GM mounts are still available from gmpartsdirect.com ( A GREAT site, I could have saved many $$$ had I found out about them earlier ) but even at their site the engine mounts & engine side brackets will cost about 170 $ . Maybe I can better go for some aftermarket urethane mounts... again, any recommendations ?? thanks

AC398

also when youre ready you could always have someone here in the US buy them from NApa theyre about $22 each for stock replacement rubber ones and ship them to you. Even if shipping was a $100 itd be less than 1 mount from chevy

maxrochatansky

wow !! I just checked out the napa online store , they're listed at $10 - a pair !! Hard to believe , but it includes a picture and it seems to be the complete frame mount. thanks for the great advice :-)))

maxrochatansky

got another question for our boy greezemonkey. you should all check out his BBC camaro : 1985 Chevrolet Camaro - scott's Chevrolet "'THE MACHINE'" . I noticed that you have installed a tubular k-member to shed some weight. I am thinking in that direction, too. (installing a 454 as well) There has been some controversy about tubular k-members, that they supposedly wouldn't to able to handle the stresses placed on by daily driving (potholes , etc...) Are you using it as a daily driver , and have you noticed any problems ??? Thanks for your input. BTW that company you got them from , profabracing really appears to be out of business. (?) Anyone heard of those guys lately ? cheerzz

SScott

Good question Max... I was wondering that also.

maxrochatansky

Badride5 , lets try and figure this one out ourselves, since no-one seems to have any useful info on the tubular k-member issue. Let's put all different manufacturer's k-member next to each other , and figure out which is the most interesting. I am currently searching the web. found 3 manufacturers so far that interested me : PA racing , BMR fabrication , BBE performance (might be same as BMR , am looking into it) you can also mail me off-board and we'll get to the bottom of this : mobilelease @ skynet.be For starters , I've noticed you can often choose between mild steel OR chromoly. Now I dont know anything about metallurgy , but since the chromoly thing is more expensive, I'm assuming it is stronger than the steel k-member. Should be strong enough for long-term street use, since the OE one is simply steel as well. Anyone here have a "scientific" explanation of chromoly ? :-)

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

chromoly is a slightly denser metal than regular mild steel. because of this density, it can be used with thinner wall tubing to obtain the same strength. thus making it lighter. however, when heated (like during the welding process) the metal becomes somewhat brittle and susceptable to cracking...especially on the street. which is why most manufactureers recommend 'moly only be used for drag racing applications.