19kilo

Just bought a 350/355 from a guy here in town. The block was out of a 1974 Camaro the guy built the 350/355 to put in a Fire bird 400 but he got a 400 engine and he has to sell the 350. Its comes totally together with a RPM intake brand new cam engine has never been ran 0 miles on it. I also ordered pace setter headers from Jet hot so hopefully it well scream. I have a few questions will that bolt right up to my car the 1974 block 1985 Z-28 with an Lg4? Will I¡¦ll be able to stripe the 305 for parts for it? The engine was totally rebuilt with performance parts but here is the cam specs it¡¦s brand new but it was an OEM cam for a late model corvette thanks!

Cam Spec¡¦s INT/EXH

Valve Lift .447/.447

Cam Lift .298/.298

Duration (SAE) 290/290

Valve Lash HYD/HYD

Centerline 110/118 „²-------------- Chinese to me =]

Spread 114

Timing Events .050 Cam Lift

Opens 1 BTC 49 BBC

Closes 41 ABC 7 BT

Duration 222/222

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The block will bolt right in. The only issue you'll have will be the oil dipstick; it WILL NOT work with the 85 Z28 manifolds. But, headers cure the problem quite nicely.

That's one of the all-time worst possible cams for a street motor, that there has ever been. It's not a "late model Vette" cam at all. It's the old "151" cam, used in the L79 in the mid 60s. It was notorious for being a total pig in an automatic car, ANY automatic car, but working well in a LIGHT (read: not a Vette, but rather a Chevy 2) 4-speed car with 11.1:1 compression and 4.xx gears. It likes RPMs, and only works well across a narrow RPM band, from about 4200 to 5200 RPMs; and it will ONLY do that, in a motor with VERY high compression, and 100 octane type gas. I guarantee, you will HATE it. Here it is; http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Cu...ML/128-169.asp about the middle of page 132, their grind number 151H. Get rid of it while it's still easy. Note also, that the factory's HP "rating" for those motors was 350 HP; however, if you build that EXACT motor today, part number for part number, and put it on a dyno, you'd be damn lucky to get 275 HP out of it, and you'd get around 225 HP once installed in a chassis (like the modern "rating" system for actual cars, as opposed to crate motors).

The other LG4 stuff, intake carb dist and all that, will bolt right up and work fine. The one thing you want to change, is the exhaust system; every piece, from the heads to the rear bumper. But, DO NOT buy LG4 exhaust; get a set of chassis-specific headers for the L69, or for a TPI 350 if Cyou don't have California-style visual emissions inspection; the high-flow cat to match, such as a Catco; and your favorite cat-back from any of a dozen mfrs. I'd recommend against a "custom" exhaust, it will cost you as much or more, and not flow as well, and probably not fit as well, as the pre-made ones.

19kilo

"Get a set of chassis-specific headers for the L69, or for a TPI 350"?I have a set of Pace setters Headers from Jet Hot comeing i told the jet hot rep what kind of car i have and that i have the 305 Lg4 but putting a 350 in it next week he said the pace setters are good and would fit nicely only thing i'll have to do is plug the air tube holes and i dont know how but cant be that hard. My exhaust i have now is a Magana flow cat with 3 inch pipeing to a flow master 80 series duels out the back. The cam it brand spanking new so i'll just go with it from now is it really that crappy anyway it well be leaps and bonds over my LG4 with 184,000 miles on it.

19kilo

He also gave me the paper work from the cam i was reading over it is as a 350 hp power kit it reads. Here is a 350 HP cam kit includes a melling cam 447 lift and 22 Degree duration @050 lift chevy 350 horse cam used in the 60s also included sealed power lifters and double roller timing set. I dont know if that means anything.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yup, that's the one. The factory "151" (last 3 digits of its part #).

And like I already said, that "350 HP" business is a total joke. There was ABSOLUTELY NO MEASUREMENT OF ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to back it up. GM's marketing dept basically just pulled that number out of their anus; that's how such things were done in those days. If you were to go build that EXACT motor, with the 151 cam and the 461 heads and every other piece EXACTLY like the L79 came, it would make about 275 -285 HP in engine-dyno trim; and if it came in a car TODAY, it would be "rated" at about 225 HP, in the trim in which it would be installed in a car. Like, with an air cleaner, an exhaust, a water pump, an alternator, and so forth. Under no circumstances would it come ANYWHERE CLOSE to 350 HP, without nitrous or something.

You'll hate it. Guaranteed. The first time you drop it in gear and step on the gas, you'll feel that sinking feeling of "I just spent HOW MUCH, and I just did HOW MUCH work, and this is all I get??" And let me tell you, that feeling SUCKS. Especially as cheap as cams are. Fix it NOW, while it's easy and cheap to do, because you will surely be fixing it later otherwise, when it's a royal PITA.

19kilo

what is a better cam?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What converter do you have, and what gears?

19kilo

stock converter stock gears 308

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Then a cam appropriate to the RPM range that those parts will keep the engine in, would be the way to go.

I'd suggest a Comp XE262, known to work well in that situation; or if you think you might ever step up the gears or the converter, a XE268. Probably the 262 is going to be the way to go. There's a couple of Crane cams in the same general range that people have got good results with.

You're looking for a cam with modern high-acceleration lobes, unlike those old 60s lazy ones; intake duration in the 210-215 degree range, and exhaust duration 6 degrees or so more than the intake. All this on 110 degree lobe separation (look at the 151 specs; add the 110 and the 118, divide by 2, the result is lobe separation). As much lift as you can get, within the other parameters; which should be in the .460- .470" sort of range.

Avoid picking a cam by "sound" (lopey idle). Don't go with the cheapest thing you can find; the difference in cost is so tiny, and the difference in performance can be so huge, that it's worth every penny to get the best one you can.

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

sofakingdom is right, that's a real nice choice for a cam.

krazefbird

This thread looks a little old but think good place to start. I am looking at the Nostalgia cam (yes, the L79 one) and LOVE the sound it makes, but on the acceleration issue, I am reluctant? I don't want to go extreme lift because I want to retain gas mileage....at least a little bit, and I had a .470/.470 cam in a '68 307 that fell on it's face until 2000 rpm....The comp L79 power band says 1800+ which I think is just right for stock converter and such....Don't need to be fast, just want quick....thanks for the input..

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That cam hasn't got any closer to "state of the art" anytime over the last 6 years. Still the same POS it's always been for 50 years now.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Motor Trend 1966.
1966 Chevy II 275HP 327 Power Glide with 3.08's.
16.4 @ 85.87 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1970
1970 Nova 300HP 350 TH350 3.07's
16.5 @ 85.0 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1971.
1971 Nova 245HP 350 TH350 with 2.56's
17.20 @ 81.89 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Hot Rod Magazine 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4Speed M20 with 3.55's.
14.85 @ 95.65 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4 speed M20 with 3.55's.
15.8 @ 89.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1970.
1970 Camaro 300 HP 350 TH350 with 3.07's.
16.6 @ 86.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1972.
1972 Camaro 165 HP 350 TH350 with 2.73's.
18.5 @ 79 MPH
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1967.
1967 Corvette 300HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.0 @ 86.5 MPH.
-----------------------------------------------
Car Life 1968.
1968 Chevelle 275HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.8 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1971.
1971 Chevelle 270 HP 350 TH350 with 3.31's
16.9 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------


SCARY fast, eh??

krazefbird

HA! Thanks for the wake up call SOFA...I was going to say those are all heavy cars and that could have a lot to do with it, however, after looking up their curb weight they are about the same as a third gen sooooo.....Since I like the sound this cam puts out, but it won't be much for power/time....what would you go with? I have a 3 inch exhaust with a flowmaster so have half the sound accomplished....

krazefbird

Looked at the 262 and 268 cams...the lift is not that much different from the L79 cam? Will it make THAT much of a difference?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

YES!

There is SO MUCH MORE that goes into what makes a cam work well (or not) than some "peak lift" spec, that it's not even funny.

What's this going in? Engine size, heads (casting number please, not "stock" or "out of a Vette"), car weight, gears, converter, intended usage? If it's the car in in your profile, driven on the street, with a stock converter, and a 350, the XE262 would be about perfect. With a 307, esp with the typical smogger crappy heads that came on those if that's what's still there, might want to go a step lower, to the XE256.

krazefbird

Yes, however....the 307 gave out on me just before I deployed so am going to have to figure something out when I get back...looking at a 350....buuuuut trying to figure out cheapest/fastest way to go....I know save money but this is my daily driver and I'm out a car now...will have 2 weeks off when I get back so either gonna build up a shortblock 350 or see about rebuilding the 307....not sure which way yet. Going the short block 350....the heads are 350 heads from a former 350 I had in there before the 307. It was from a '78 Camaro ....well maybe HA! That motor had been rebuilt as well so not sure f it was original or not so no clue what casting number the heads are!! I know they are stock though with the 1.94/1.50 valves...I put new springs on them when I put them on the 307 cuz the cam was .470 lift so needed springs that would support that rating, however I don't remember what they are rated to? .490? Maybe? Not sure. So anyway, torn between spending a few extra dollars and building the short block or just getting something to throw in there to get it running....ERGH!!! I figure getting a short block and building it up should be pretty quick and not too painful...

krazefbird

Oh yeah...the trans....I had it put in back in 99/00....The guy that did it said it has a stage 1 shift kit but I am not sure what kind of kit it is and I am not sure of the stall on the converter. But, from the way it performs, I think pretty much stock converter. It does have a good solid shift in it so that helps. But yeah, stock(ish).

Not too concerned with running a 10-12 sec 1/4, just want something that performs well, sounds good, and still retains something for mileage...meaning in the 15 mpg range give or take...That's not too much to ask is it? LOL!!

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, not really; seems reasonable; with good decision-making and attention to detail, should be doable.

Those goals definitely leave the 151 out of the picture however.

First thing to do is, figure out what heads you have, and whether they are candidates for being part of the project.

krazefbird

Well, I have no way of checking til I actually get back, and I was planning on ordering some parts here in the next month...cam, intake....That way can have the stuff ready and not have to wait on shipping...

So, I know the heads are nothing special, no double hump and nothing has been done to them so I'm gonna guess that they are the crappy ones that were mentioned above, probly 882 or something else....With that in mind, I don't plan on doing anything to them, just swap them over so I don't have to spend a huge amount on new ones. Which cam to go with?

I found some vids on utube of the xe262, sounds rather smooth...so is there another cam that combines the xtreme energy wih the nostalgia sound and gives good power? Or would that have to be custom grind?

Just to be clear, I am looking a this one, not the old one. CL12-671-4 at summit

229/236@050 .468/.462 112 LSA

Was hoping that this was more advanced then the one you guys were talking about above....

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What cam to go with, depends on what heads you have, among other things; such as, the compression.

No meaningful answer can be given without knowing that.

Customer: "I want to buy a sofa. The most important thing is how it looks."
Salesman: "How big is the room it's going in?"
Customer: "No idea. I like that great big one over there. How will that look in my room?"



If all you want is the "sound" of a big cam, and don't even try to match it to any kind of goal as to the motor either makes the best power it can for the use you put it to or how much fuel it burns, then you're headed in the right direction.

If the heads are in fact 882s, get ready for not meeting ANY of your goals except maybe the "sound".

krazefbird

Gotcha....Like I said, just trying to get a little bit of everything...not just the sound. The sound IS what intrigued me and at first I was just looking at the lift numbers....knowing a little more now I can give it some more thought.

Thank you for everything you have told me thus far....It all makes sense as well...When I put the 307 together, I had the .470/.470 cam...put that in there hoping to make up for the loss of displacement since I went from a 355 to the 307...it didn't help anything....Also, taking the heads from the 355 and putting them on the 307 significantly lowered the compression I'm sure....and then having a stock/near stock torque converter....well, the best E.T. I had was a 17.6......EGO crushing!!! BUT!! at the time I built the 307, I had nothing to spend on it....NOTHING!! I was delivering for Piz Hut....saved some cash and got a reman crank with matching rod n main bearings...Gasket set and fluids and that was it...total I spent on the motor was less than 200....I swapped a guy the bad crank from the 355 for the 307. The 307 was a throw together motor just to get the car going again....This time I don't have that option, or not going to go that way anyhow.... But thanks...I will probly still have a few questions....thinking about trying to find some 305 heads to throw on there maybe...that would bump pwer and compression a lil bit, will that reduce amount of gas used???

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That would in turn depend on what pistons end up in the 350.

"Building" a motor, an endeavor distinct from merely "assembling" some parts that are laying around, takes planning. Start out with a goal; some amount of HP or torque, an ET, a lap time, etc.; maybe something like, a peppy street car that can run a 14.5 sec ET and gets 15 mpg. Establish a budget, realizing that whatever you spend on "the motor", an approximately equal amount will end up getting spent on "everything else", like exhaust, cooling system, tires, maintenance you discover while in the process, drive train, and so on. Make sure your budget is consistent with your goals: "I wanna run with the ProStocks" isn't consistent with "$1500". Then you can begin to pick parts that fit with what you're trying to do, and what you're actually able to do.

The cam choice is WAY down toward the end of the process. Don't worry about "have it all on hand right now"; I'd BET MONEY that even if you had the whole short block sitting in front of you, with the block bored & honed, the crank turned, rods ready to go, etc., you can't have it ready for a cam as fast as what little time it'll take to get one. That's about like rushing out to buy the paint for all the rooms in your new house, before the foundation is even poured. Decide what you want to end up with, then do your homework, then begin acquiring parts starting from the very first thing you need (short block), then as you reach each milestone, start worrying about ordering the parts for the next stage.

A 350 short block with flat-top or small D-shaped dish pistons and 305 heads could be made to work well. Be aware though that all 305 heads have 1.84" intake valves, which will suffocate a 350; but by the time you install the right size valves (1.94") and open everything up to where they can work, they'll be up to about 62cc minimum.

krazefbird

So would I be better off just staying with the heads I currently have? Guessing that they are stock 350 heads with 1.94/1.50 and what....76cc?

krazefbird

and what of the cam I mentioned? It's not the same numbers as the original one at the beginning of the thread...is it any better or still not so much?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If the heads you have are any of the common 70s smoggers - 882, 624, 993 - or any of the not-so-common similar ones, they are not suitable for a "project".

76cc, which is what most of those are, is too big of a chamber to get enough compression for any kind of decent efficiency. If that's what you've got, you'll be money ahead, even though it might not feel like it at the time, to pitch em and get something better. Might feel like you're "spending more money"; but what you're ACTUALLY doing is getting more power WITHOUT burning gasoline. (by doing a better job of extracting the energy in the gasoline you're using) Doesn't take long for what you think is "saving money" on the front end, to leave you with more money flowing out of your pocket every time you turn the key, than what you thought you were "saving".

Don't worry about cams. That's a long way off yet.

krazefbird

Well, the plan is to order the parts and put all together. So 350 block, then cam/lifter set, and intake. Swap over current heads cuz don't have enough to get new ones right now and then put together and in the car to get running hopefully take me a few days. That's why I was asking about the cam. I know the heads play a big part but can't get any info on them right now and don't have that much cash to spend, was looking at just getting a long block assy but the hp vs price was irritating me so figured could make just as good a sound by adding few things to the short block. Will have performance and sound that I want for an overall lesser price. So again, the cam that I mentioned, not so good? Even if it is upgraded from the old school one?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Not to be mean or anything, but since your goal appears to be to put a random cam into a random motor, any cam at all should work just about as good (or not) as any other.

The ABSOLUTE WORST way to pick a cam is by the "sound". I honestly think you could do better by opening the catalog page and throw a dart at it, since at least that way, there's at least some kind of probability that you'll hit one that will actually be suitable; whereas, picking one by "sound", basically GUARANTEES the engine won't perform to its full capabilities, whatever they are. It LESSENS your chances of making a good choice. Not much help I can offer you in that case since that's not how I build motors.

krazefbird

I understand what you are saying Sofa...however, looking at the duration and lift of it compared to the 262, it doesn't seem that much different. Looks a little more aggressive than the 262 to me...And while we re not sure on the heads I have, I can get better heads at a later date and install them and get better performance. So, if I was going purely off sound, then a Thumpr cam from COMP would be a better choice? Not trying to argue, just trying to figure it out.

jokerZ71

The L79 Nostalgia cam is Comp's revision of the old "151" cam.It does have modern lobe profiles,but,will still need compression,2500 stall, & gears to perform well.If you stay with the 307, a good budget recipe is a set L30/305 heads with the XE262 cam.

jokerZ71

The L79 327 was a better performer than you're saying here.All these comparisons are with PG trannys.A properly tuned L79/4 sp or auto with @ least a 2500 stall would consistantly turn in mid to high 13's all day long & that was w/ it's 600 cfm carb..From 2400 rpm to 5800,it was a screamer.I've seen L79 Chevy II's blow away 396 Chevelles many times.

1gary

Acouple of links for you to look at:

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._compatibility

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Quench


We call cams that sound like................poser cams. That term generally get people alittle hot under the collar,but might snap them into considering their choices more wisely. All of the SCR and DCR has to be consider when cam choices are made. The 305 head option was popular because people considered it to be a cheap way out for a compression increase.And the dumbest way to go about it because those heads don't flow worth a damm.Then tried to weasel out of bad flowing heads with caveman like home die grinder porting which made it worst because they had no way of bench flowing them so it was a crap shoot and even of they did bench flow them,they found out the ports are the wrong shape and wrong cross section. Port shape and cross sections are the key. All in all they left way too much on the table while spending needless time and money.

Sofa has given you good direction.Follow it!!!.

krazefbird

Thanks Gary, now I have more homework ha!! But I will read.

Joker, I have been seeing that the L79 has been in mostly the 327's, so would putting it in a 350 make it perform less? Or would it have the potential to be better if and when I could put better heads on it and get a higher stall?

jokerZ71

The "151" cam that Sofa is referring to was used in the L79/327's. L79 is the RPO code for the engine.The L79 Nostalgia cam you are referring to is Comp's version of that GM "151" cam.It has slightly different specs & a more modern profile,but,with it's duration'it still needs gearing & adequate stall along with a fairly high SCR to perform well.If not,it will be a turd @ lower rpm use.If you have dish pistons & 76 cc heads,you're not gonna want this cam.It has a very late IVC which will not allow adequate cylinder filling until higher in the RPM range.Comp's version is a little better due to it's LSA/ICL,but,still has too much duration for a low compression/high gear combo.The XE268,or,XE262 would be a better fit for your app.The L79/327 was a very strong performer,but,it did so with an 11:1 SCR & a 4sp tranny,or,higher stall in automatics.I promise you an L79 engine will dyno much higher than any 225 HP.

krazefbird

Well, after going thru and looking at numerous different cams and specs and duration and lift and rpm and such...I believe I will end up going with the 262 cam as Sofa first mentioned, as well as everyone else!! LOL

After reviewing everyone's input and looking at the numbers and the rpm range, that 262 cam seems spot on for what I am actually wanting. Yeah, that L79 cam sounds great and yeah I want a nice sound as well....but functionality and drivability are what's important to me as well....and besides, I have a 3 inch exhaust and flowmaster already so it should sound pretty good....as well as that cam having a 110 LSA...

So thank you guys for putting up with my retarded questions and slight ignorance... and also thank you for the advice and educational info....I am now just .002 smarter than I was before HA! Still lots to learn but hey...1 day ata time....