1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Tried to search but nothing came up regarding the Cadillac engine. Just wondering if anyone has ever done this or considered it. I thought about doing this a while back in my G-Body Grand Prix, before it was stolen. Anyway, with the 500 ft. lbs. of torque stock I thought it would be interesting. Remember, these engines were pushing around Cadillacs weighing in at over 5000 lbs

imagine that in a third gen!

AlkyIROC

Anywhere a BBC will fit, so will a Caddy engine. The Caddy block will have a BOP bellhousing bolt pattern so you'll need to replace the tranny also. The Caddy valve train doesn't survive for very long above 4500 rpm but it can be upgraded. The biggest performance boost you can do for the engine is replace the intake manifold. The factory manifold has the carb below the intake ports.

Performance parts for the Caddy can be found at
http://www.cad500parts.com/

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

thanks, I did check out that site before I posted. From what I have read it is only about 50 lbs. more heavy than a Chevy BB engine. I'm not very familiar with BB engines, so I don't know what kind of modifications would be needed to get the engine to fit. Engine mounts would be the biggest thing, I'm pretty sure I saw universal mounts on that website. Other than that I'm not really sure what else would have to be done

AlkyIROC

There's always a WOW factor of having something unusual under the hood but on a cost factor compared to performance gains, the BBC is the way to go.

Any engine can be installed with enough time and money.

Project: 85 2.8 bird

a few have done it. one even went so far as to cut teh firewall & set the engienback some to off set the additional weight in fron. quite a show. I tried aabout a yr ago to fing the thread that had these, as it was an exteernal link, but couldn't find it.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The Caddy engine is LIGHTER than a BBC. It is only like 75 lbs heavier than a SBC!

The 1970 Eldorado 500 is 400 HP/550 TQ STOCK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-HcsoIZd7k

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

yah, I found this quote from someone on another forum...

All *rough* numbers:

Chevy Small Block (old) = 575 pounds (cast iron heads)
Chevy Small Block (L98) = 600 pounds (cast iron heads)

"Cad 472/500 engines weigh about 595 lbs. The cast iron intake weighs 40 lbs. Installing an aluminum intake like the Edelbrock Performer reduces the engine's weight by 24 lbs. Furthermore, installing the newly released Bulldog aluminum heads (available since April '03) sheds another 70 lbs. Combined, they can reduce a 472/500 to a hair over 500 lbs."

Don't want to cut the firewall!

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

well, I've been doing some more reading on the Cadillac motor, and it seems not very many people have put this kind of engine in an F-Body. I found some Cadillac specific forums, but mostly people are swapping the engine into later model caddy's anyway. I've been trying to find dimensions to get an idea how big this engine is.

according to the site, my 400SBC has the following

Overall length to water pump 28.38in.
Overall Width 22in.
Height (sump to intake) 20.5in

BBC is as follows:

L 30.5
w 23.5
h 23.5

Cadillac is as follows:

l 30.5
w 28.5
h 28.5

Compared to a BBC, there is a total of 5 inches in lenth and height. This would equate to 2.5 inches on each side, and another 5 to top of intake.

Mind you these are stock figures, and I realize that different intakes can change these values. My only concern is header clearance, which I know will be tight. It is somewhat tight already with my 400SBC. I can't imagine it any tighter, and getting access to the spark plugs. Another concern is carb and aircleaner clearance. I don't want a cowl hood, and I'm not really sure on how hight the carb will stick up. Anyone have any ideas on what to look for?

AlkyIROC

Caddy headers are easy. The port spacing is the same as BBC but the mounting flange is different. To make Caddy headers you buy whatever BBC headers are available for the car you're putting it into and cut the flange off. Buy the Caddy header flange and weld it onto the BBC headers. Poof. Instant Caddy headers.

The most popular cars to drop a Caddy 472/500 into are G-body cars.

The only thing different between the 472 and the 500 is the stroke and there's nothing external to distinguish either engine except for things like emission decals. Pulling the pan off can give you a crank casting number to let you know if it's a 472 or the stroked 500.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

yah, thanks. I did read about cutting chevy headers and putting on the caddy flange. You're also right about the G-body swap...seems more people do it with those cars, which is why I wanted to do it when I had my Grand Prix. I was wondering today though how much more room, if any, is in a G-body engine bay compared to a thirdgen. It seems these motors can be had for pretty cheap and even stock they have a good hp/torque rating. I'm still concerned about hood clearance though! Was also wondering if a shaker setup could be used

Project: 85 2.8 bird

well, the f-bod's engien bay is small enough for the TT/a to have different heads than the turbo regals.

not sure on thehood clearence, but they do make small cowl hoods that aren't precocious

badone07

In the classifieds someone posted a link to a set of BBC third gen headers. Might work out with a flange swap. You might just have to measure up an empty 3rd gen engine bay, to see how close you can get. You're going to have to most likely fabricate motor mounts. Maybe you can get by with a stock intake and stock hood. Eventually have to get my 500 caddy off the engine dolly and into my 78 Nova myself.


Here's a little Caddy power....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicEU9snPcc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJxrmnDunGY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eR1zrKK-xw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBdjm2drezo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3ymLtUah2U

badone07

I saved to the computer quite a bit researching another swap. Below is a text file I happened to save. If I can figure out exactly where it was located or by who, I'll post the link...

Re: Cad into 82-91 Camaro swap info?????
--------------------------------------------------

Very do-able. Weight is not much more than a small block Chebby. You can keep the front springs. Engine mounts: Get engine and engine frame mounts from a 425 or 368 RWD car. Remove the stock frame mounts and replace them with some 1/4" plate. The plate needs to be there to re-locate the new frame mounts forward. Drill the plates and bolt them to the frame. Install the engine and frame mounts to the Cad engine. Drop the engine in and match it to the trans. Level the rocker covers with a carpenter's level and mark the plates for drilling the frame mounts. You can try this out using just an engine block to make things easier. The easiest trans to use would be one with the correct tailshaft setup for the torque arm. A 700R4 beefed up with 87 or up innards is one that might not blow apart for a while. I used a 2004R and a TH400 while my 2004R was at the trans shop a few times! You will need to go to Jegs for the transmission bellhousing adaptor if you use a Chebby trans. The trans lockup electronics can be purchased at a speed shop or gat a vacuum switch from an '85 or so Blazer and make up a cut out relay hooked to the brake pedal and 4th gear switch. I used 500 exhaust manifolds and a Y pipe. Never got a good exhaust going. There will be no room for the regular belt driven radiator fan. The 2 electric fan setup works and can be controlled with a normally open thermostatic switch (setup to close a good sized relay) that fits into the water outlet above the thermostat. The water outlet can be switched to a Chebby type that accepts different screw in stuff. If you want air conditioning then the olde axial compressor fits under the hood better than the newer radial type. The radiator fans need to turn on while the AC compressor is running.
I removed the wiper motor while fitting the engine and it was difficult getting it to fit back in. The steering column firewall bracket has to go over about 1/2" to keep the column universal from getting too large a dose of exhaust. On to the most difficult part. Oil pan will has to be fabricated.
Start with a 425 pan and cut a notch into it to miss the frame. This gets done at the same time you fit the engine mounts. The sump needs a little change too. Most time consuming part of the whole job for certain.
I'd like to put another one of these together sometime. Mine was a too high compression motor '68 heads on a 75 short block. Cooling was always an issue but I had the Cadillac Y pipe spliced into the Trans Am exhaust and that made things worse. The whole thing could have used an external heat exchanger somewhere. BTW I did nothing to beef up or change the original rear axle. I took it easy hoping that it would not fly into pieces.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

Sweet thanks! Found the link by the way

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...maro-swap.html