candle

I did use the search button and I really couldn't find what I was looking for. What I'm looking for is what swap I should do for my future car. It's a 91 Camaro RS with a 305 and a 5 speed. It's pretty much stock, and is quite quick already but I definitely want about 400-500 hp in it. I've thought about a supercharger but the 305 would need a rebuild anyway, and for about the same price I could rebuild a 350 and put a supercharger on it. I've also thought of doing an all motor LS1 build, some crazy wild cam and stuff, and it'll cost similar to a supercharged 350 in the 305's place. Of course, the T5 is gonna go. I really don't want to keep it behind a 400 hp monster. I'm thinking a mildly upgraded T56 should do the trick. This car of course will be daily driven and I will drive it quite a lot. I just want something that I can dependably drive, go at least 13s at my elevation, (11s or 12s would be awesome actually) and have a mostly stock looking interior. Also, I doubt the stock rear-end will handle some hard launches so I'm thinking a Ford 9 inch or a GM 12 bolt, but I really don't want to be too crazy about swapping rear ends. I really don't care about idle quality, because I can just run a vacuum pump for the brakes (if I run a brake booster) and any other vacuum operated accessories. Thanks in advanced for your input.

Chris

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

My LS1/T56 runs mid-13's at my elevation. Are you higher than 5800'?

If you think a stock LO3/T5 is "quick", you're probably not ready for 400 HP. . .

(Oh, my beefed up 10 bolt didn't like hard launches. 9" in the works.)

Atilla the Fun

I hafta agree. Even with the T5, a stock LO3 can never qualify as quick. Maybe if you're comparing it to a 3 cylinder Geo Metro, I guess.
Getting a 350 to 400 HP is cheap and easy. Then when you're used to it, then you can add a 100-shot of nitrous. There's your 500 horses.
A stock LS1 on an engine dyno is really close to 400 horses. That's why guys are reporting 320 rwhp stock. With headers, a mild cam is an easy 43 horses. Even without headers, good heads are an easy 54 horses. Put it all together, that's 497 crankshaft horsepower you can drive every day for 200,000 miles.
The LSx is the higher initial cost, and a much steeper learning curve. A carbureted 383 can get you a streetable 500 horses for less money, but with less MPG.
none of us can decide for you whether to go SBC or LSx, all we can do is give you the facts about the 2 choices.

candle

I'm just saying it's quick for a 305 5 speed car. If I can handle driving my uncle's 451 hp fox stang with a 5 speed, I'm pretty sure I can handle 400 hp in a slightly heavier Camaro. I'm trying to do this slightly on a budget, but it definitely has to be streetable and pass emissions. I'm not leaning towards using a carburetor because of emissions, but I haven't ruled it out yet. I think maybe a good LS1 swap with the T56 and a beefed up 4th gen rear end could do mostly daily duty no? I will be toying with it at the track as well. And my elevation is somewhere between 3800 at the lowest point in the city, to about 7100 while I drive on the mountains. Yeah, quite a big difference but the track is around 4200 I believe. Thanks guys for all your input, I really appreciate it.

Chris

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A beefed-up 4th gen rear is no stronger than a beefed-up 3rd gen rear. The only difference between them is the axle length (and some 4th gens have traction control sensors).

Transmetal

If u want an LS1 why not just buy an 4th gen LS1 car? They're not as pricey as they used to be.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

if you mention budget, or slight budget, i dont see a LS1 as an option. Right from the get go your talking 3k if you have awsome luck to grab a LS1 thats not beat up and low miles, Iv'e seen 12k mile LS1 with T56 trans had for 4-4.5 grand. On top of that your gonna need to fab up the car which am sure is not all that cheap for suspension work, yatta yatta. I could be wrong though. New fuel system, you want to put a cam in the LS1, theres another 4-500 for a nice cam.

LS1's dont seem cheap to modify, but they produce some serious power when they are compared to say a cam swap in a 350.

like others say, you think a 305 is fairly quick, you will be pleased with say a 383 stroker, you can damn near build one from scratch for cheaper then grabbing a 65,000 mile LS1 and have more power.

If you do have some money to dump then i would say LS1 all the way!

Atilla the Fun

Since you're concerned about emissions, you can't use a carb, since '88 was the last year that ANY GM SBC car came with one.

candle

I figured the carb was out of options. I'm thinking a HSR system or similar, or an LSX swap. And the 4th gens might be a little cheaper now, but they're still ugly. I don't care how cheap they get a 4th gen is really really ugly compared to a 3rd gen. And the axles, I didn't know that they were that close. A 383 is still a good stroker and can produce an honest naturally aspirated 500 hp very easily. And sorry for the discrepancies with slightly on a budget and the beginning saying that I'm on a budget. I can afford a little, but it might take a little longer to finish if I go with a build that's going to cost more. I just want to do it right, and have a nice street car. Even if I have to drive on the 305 for a while, while I'm building the lsx or 350 or something. If I do do the 350 is there any necessary modifications that need to be done to the pcm to support the extra 45 cubic inches? And I guess a ford 9 inch would be a really good choice for a rear end. They're quite cheap, quasi easy to find, and from what I've seen before can handle quite a bit of power. Hell, I should just throw the 14 bolt that's under my 65 into the camaro and run big 8 lug wheels and tub the hell out of it. (Just kidding) For any LS swap I need the pcm from an ls car correct? Thanks again for all the input, and sorry to sound like a wimp that can't handle the power, or sounding like I don't know how to handle the power.

Chris

Atilla the Fun

It's okay to not want more than 500 horses, and it's okay to say so. Have you already done headers and cat-back? If so, then the LSx swap suddenly makes SLIGHTLY less sense, and do a near-stock 350 right away, so you can enjoy a tolerable car while you build a serious 383.

candle

I still don't have the car yet. This is planning for the car. The previous owner did a flowmaster 80 series but that's it. I think it might have 3 inch tubing but again, that's it. And honestly, I want it streetable, and I could do more than 500 but pretty much, I just want to stop there. I like going fast, and I like a fun car but really it's only going to be a street car and it doesn't need to be faster than 12s. I do plan on doing tons of weight redux on the car also, and I'm going to run posi (given) and maybe NTO1 drag radials. If I have to I'll tub it too, but I want to stay about 255 wides for tires.

Atilla the Fun

You don't need 500 horses to break into the high 12s, 400 can do it. You don't need to tub the rear wells, either, as some board members are successfully running 315/35R17 tires on 17x11 wheels, still inside the stock bodywork, without any serious mods. Others are fitting 275/60R15s with NO mods at all.

candle

Really only 400? I do have a higher elevation. About 4300 or so at the track is what my guess is. And 305s would be great for me. Those are 12 inches wide! As for rim size I would probably do 16s, not 17s. 17s are too big for my taste. They really are. And as I'm not running like 12inch brake rotors with 8 piston calipers or something, I don't need the bigger rims. As for the swap, I'm thinking of doing an LS swap. Reasons for it, Aluminum block, aluminum heads, plastic intake manifold. All that weight coming off of the front from iron block, iron heads, and an aluminum intake manifold will help the car handle much better. The PS is also coming off so it should be pretty well balanced, meaning, fun, quick, great street car. Of course, the T5 would look at me, scream, then break if I put it behind even a mildly modified LS1, so it's going in favor of a T56.

duckmanquacker

Yes all you need is 400hp. my parents live in Las Cruces and we've pulled 11.85 at akela flats near demming in a 1968 impala with a 454 BBC dynoed at 392 HP from a Highschool project.

candle

I live in El Paso, so that's cool. I thought I needed more than that. Ah, well I'm thinking an LS swap is too much for my goals then. Thanks for all the information guys. I still want to do the LS swap though, it's a little easier to make horsepower, and it just looks good in the 3rd gen bay.