sk8r fer life

has anyone considered this? I'm curious on how hard this would be to drop into my camaro, I have heard that big blocks in our cars can be tricky...how hard would this be and would it need a lot of mods?

Tim

Apeiron

A 440 isn't a big block, it's a Mopar engine. Nothing will fit readily, you'd have to fabricate everything. As with all exotic swaps, if you have to ask...

Air_Adam

Ape is right.... Its a mopar, which is a whole different animal from the GM engines.

When people talk about 'big block swaps' they are talking about GM big blocks... like the 427 or 454 Chevy engines, which have parts readily available to swap them in.

sk8r fer life

thought so just wondering if it'd be worth the swap even with gettin the setup for cheap...

92 Camaro

iTrader: (1)

no

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

the money you're saving on the engine and trans will be completely overshadowed by the time and money you're going to spend on custom, one-off parts to try and make things worth. agreeing with everyone else on this one; not worth it

sk8r fer life

didn't think so but if it were to be done it would definably be unique! And thats what I always shoot for.

AlkyIROC

With enough time, money, fabrication skills, tools, etc, any drivetrain swap can be done in any vehicle. If you want to do an exotic swap, that's up to you but don't expect a lot of help asking questions on how to do it. It's one of those things that if you want to do it, you go ahead and do it. If you screw up or decide it can't be done, then it's your own mistake for trying. If you succeed and it turns out well then you have something that nobody else has and can be proud of it.

Swapping in a BBC into a third gen isn't too difficult but it's a whole lot easier than dropping in an engine/tranny from a non GM vehicle.

The 440 is a pig anyway and the 727 is too lightweight. A Chrysler 383 with a 904 is a better combination.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

sorry, but it was the first thing to come to mind


yes it would be different, but being different at a absurd cost with little return is a bit of a waste in my book.

you can find used cheap chevy big blocks quite easily, and it will be a whole lot easier.

sk8r fer life

hmm haven't thought of that combo yet...and I know it can be done I was just wondering what others thought of the swap, it would be a challenge for sure

83firechicken

it could be done if you want,motor mounts,trans cross member,drive shaft and exhaust will need to be custom made also you will need a larger rad as its a big block and will put out more heat than your 305 also different fuel system from your fuel injection to carb and then you got the engine wiring harness to go through to get rid of your fuel injection stuff if you live some where they do emissions checks your in for a lot more work to make it the same as your 305 spec's

now after all that if its a 440 for cheep chances its a smog motor and that means you might not get ant h.p increase as some of them had around 200 h.p.

then theirs the trans 727' take a lot of power to turn compared to a g.m trans i do not know why but all my mopar buddy's say the same thing and on top of that you will lose your over drive = less gas mileage taking away from the cheapness of the setup

my advice is to get a 350 and start there and if you want more that try a 383 or a 400 sbc's are cheaper to build and are way easier to swap in a third gen (it comes with one) and they are a good motor to build or you could find a good used setup for way less this swap will cost
hope this helps you and good luck with your camaro

sk8r fer life

no offense but nothing smaller than that 440 would be going into my camaro. In my opinion the 350 is wayy overdone, The real plan is for a 454 or if im lucky enough a 572, I know there some advantages to building small blocks and disadvantages to big blocks but I just rather have my car different. I appreciate the advice though

Grumbles

I think you're a little too concerned with being radical, and not enjoying the drive :P

EDIT: Any big block swap will set you over 10g's easily. everything needs to be replaced. Trans, kmember, rear end...everything.

Not to mention building a BB that isn't a dog will cost you an arm and a leg in and of itself.

Air_Adam

My 454/TH350 swap didn't cost me anywhere NEAR 10k.... maybe 3k, close to 4k tops. Its not a monster by any means, but its just as fast as the 400hp 350 it replaced, and its a whole lot more civilized on the street than that small block ever was (which was the goal in the first place).

sk8r fer life

my thoughts exactly, and a big block can be more docile than small blocks and make the same or more power, plus the power range you can get is much larger than that of a small block

83firechicken

yea i know what you mean, no replacement for displacement, i will do a bbc swap in my firebird some day i actually like big blocks way better my self just saying there is better ways to go than a 440 in a third gen

i think a tbi 454 like early 90's 454-SS's had would be a really slick set up and with fuel injection it would have great street manners if you could tune it (not some thing i know a lot about on fuel injection)

i did not mean to insult you or your ideas big block are cool just trying to help you out

i wish you all the best luck with your big block

AlkyIROC

My 91 454SS is crap. The Gen V block is the worst BBC GM ever designed. The TBI system can max out to around 330 HP. You just can't flow enough fuel through the 2 injectors to support big numbers. The Gen V peanut port heads have no performance potential and they use a non adjustable valve train with 3/8" rocker studs meaning everything needs to be replaced if you want to put any kind of reasonable cam in the engine.

A 572 is a tall deck block. The swap will cost you a lot more than a normal short deck block. If you're going to go through all the expense of putting a tall deck block in, go right to a 632.

Stop watching the car shows on TV and reading about exotic swaps in the car magazines. Do a real world swap that's obtainable and affordable. If money isn't an object, you would never be asking if it can be done.

Grumbles

Well said sir :]

Apeiron

Nice, I'm gonna put an EMD 20-710G into a Smart Fortwo!

Grumbles

Why stop there? SD80MAC is just so much more exotic!

Apeiron

The 20-710G is the prime mover for the SD80MAC.

Grumbles

DOnt know anything about big diesels, just wiki'd it and saw a 20 cylinder version :P

sk8r fer life

I see what your getting at if your gonna go big than go big, but is a 632 streetable? or will eat my gas tank before i get down the street. I'm just not familiar with the 632, I've seen some very docile 572s that were pretty smooth that why I turn to them
p.s. - where would you even get a 632? and now that I think of it doesnt that block have a nickname like avenger or warrior or somethin like that lol

AlkyIROC

572 = 4.500" bore and 4.500" stroke. Although that displacement can be obtained with different combinations, that's the most common. It's difficult to get a 4.500" stroke in a short deck block. The wrist pin is positioned too high into the ring lands.

A 632 is 4.600" bore and 4.750" stroke. A standard aftermarket 4.500" bore tall deck block is bored out and more stroke is added.

To get larger displacements than that, you need to get into the super tall deck blocks with wider bore spacing but there are bigger engines out there.

sk8r fer life

now what is the difference between a short and tall deck block? I assume one will sit higher than the other,like the difference between some truck engines and other motors?

AlkyIROC

It's the distance from the crank centerline to the deck surface. A tall deck block is 0.400" longer. The longer cylinders allow for longer strokes.

The heavy trucks (5 ton, school buses etc) got the tall deck blocks. The pistons were taller with an extra compression ring. Tall deck blocks need longer pushrods and use a different intake manifold or a short deck intake with spacers.

Factory tall deck engines were 366 and 427 CID (6L and 7L). The 366 has no performance potential. The bore is too small. The aftermarket has increased the bore and stroke for larger displacement but still retains the 0.400" deck height because of aftermarket parts availability. Even taller decks are available as special engines.

327sleeper88

It all boils down to budget. if you are looking for 500+ CID, you are looking at $2000+ for just the block (aftermarket). If you can get a good 427 tall deck OEM block, you are looking at a max of about 500 cid, and thats with a lot of grinding in the block for stroker clearance.

If you have never dealt with power like you will be getting with this many cubes, you also need to replace your whole driveline. i say get a mark IV 454, stroke it to a 496, HR cam, and a th-350 or 400. 500+ hp, and very streetable. still moderately expensive, but lots of reliable power.

88 Rs Camaro

Unique is the best way

Barney Rubble

Go for it ! These engines provide a HUGE amount of torque . Be sure the rest of the car can handle it ! Plenty of Aftermarket heads , intakes , cams , cranks etc. available as well . You can go as far as 632 " if you wish (with the appropriate crankshaft / piston combo ) .B/E- body headers will probably be a close fit and you can use a turbo 350 or 400 with a J.B. Racing Trans bell housing / adapter (complete bellhousing is bolted to the trans - takes care of starter flywheel/flexplate issues ) or stick with the tried and true 727 torqueFlite. The stock rear member in the 3rd Gens are incredibly week by Mopar standards so a Forb 9" or better yet an aluminum Dana 60 is the way to go.

Best of Luck with the swap !
B R

Now if you`d said Hemi !!!!! Thats a whole other deal !

w0lfpack91

but why drop a Chrysler 383 in when you can build a Better and imensly more powerfull 383 out of a standard 350 SBC block and it still bolt right in eagle Makes a 383 stroker kit for $900 bolts right on to a 350 with some minor boreing, all said and done you will probbably come out on the cheaper and easier side doing a a 383 SBC than exotic swaping a chrysler in it

w0lfpack91

Just sayin, Big blocks are not all they hyped up to be, i can take a SB Stroke and bore it out to BB size, slap a big cam in it possibly dual or tri power carbs and blow your BB off the strip any day of the week. its all about power to weight ratio, i have a 1992 Foxbody Mustang GT with a Small Block 427 stroker in it, power to weight is extremly, ridiculusly high. i can run low 11s on the quarter on 93 pump gas lets see your Heavy Big Block do that. all most uneducated people who do SB to BB swaps only look at the Max HP or Displacement size. there are a few minor things to consider in price VS Performance. Big blocks are real Heavy so reinforcing the whole front end on top of the money spent on the motor plus the brackets and fab work and all the labor involved now i can take a 350 SBC and build a 383 stage 2 motor and drop it in like its factory for half the price and a third of the labor and still blow your big block out the water on any time anywhere plus i dont have the extra weight holding me back my suspension is not all jacked up and clunky from upgrading all around beter performance and lower price to build a SB stroker than to BB swap a car meant for a SB

88 Rs Camaro

I have a 440 magnum with 60k original miles from a motor home with a heavy duty 727
all forged internals stock with 6 pack rods 906 heads and 11 to 1 comp picked up both for 300 put it in my 88 Camaro it fit really easy had to fab headders and mounts and a drive shaft it is a cool setup put 3 inch side pipes and a full rollcage and a sub frame all tied in again no problem if you like to fabricate. also put a curry ford 9 inch with 430 richmonds a grizzly posi and leaf springs with an adjustable pinion snubber nothing hangs below the original sub frames still have my 5 inch ground clearance for speed bumps I have had a 70 charger a 72 barracuda and a 70 duster all with the 440 and loved that motor combo have a thread going haven't posted in a while I will put some new pics up for you. By the way have less than 3 grand in the whole thing nice to see someone thinking out of the box

rusty vango

so you want unique? how about this. find a oldsmobile 455. reason being, its still GM. and they make gobs of torque. AND the amount of fabbing would somewhat less than the dodge you are now considering. people have already done the Pontiac swap .the BBC swap et al. and at least you weren't considering a FORD swap.that would be un forgiveable.