thirdgenmattw

Hey guys, this is my first post here. I recently bought an '87 305 auto as a project car, and I'm wondering what to replace the stock motor with. My goal for this car is 325-350 rwhp and a total weight of 3000lbs without me in it. I'd be fine with low 13's at the strip although I want this to be more of an autocross weekend warrior type deal. It'll see street time, but not as my daily driver. I plan on ditching A/C/radio, power steering, and the rear seats; As well as upgrading to a 'glass hood, better buckets, an aluminum radiator, manual steering, rear disks, SFC's, alum. wheels, a posi with 3.50ish gears, stock trans, and likely a composite intake. I've kicked around a lot of ideas for power. Since my goal is to get this car pretty light I was thinking an alum heads and a composite intake on a 350. I would love to get an LS motor but since this is my first build I think it'd be easyer to stick with a carb'd gen1. I've also considered an LT1, but that means EFI which would be nice but again, it adds complexity to the swap.

So basicaly what I'm looking at is:
350 machined to .030 over to make 355cid
AFR aluminum vortech heads w/ 190cc intake runners and stock valves
AFR composite intake
stock CC'd Q-jet
roller cam specs???
stock rods & crank
shorty tube headers, y pipe

All of which should get me at least my target hp goal. I want planty of torque in the midrange for autoX, to accelerate out of corners and such. So my qeustions are, in no particular order.

What cam specs should I look at for the most grunt in the midrange? This car won't be a daily driver, but I don't want a screamer. So I'm looking at, say .500 inch valve lift? I suppose I can cheat in a little overlap right? Is there an advantage to getting a lockup convertwer for this engine?

I'm a little confused about emitions. I'm moving to Tx shortly. Does anyone know if they have visual inspections? Is it possible for me to run sans-AIR injection? Are better flowing cats and option? In short, is dual exhaust an option in my case and if so is there any advantage in going that route. I've read the stickies but I'm still confused(a little slow I know). People say AIR has got to stay on but there's examples of people running it without.

As far as rear axles, is the s-10 rear axle a bolt in to this car? How do I tell the ones with the posi rears with 3.42?

As far as the trans, what are my options for manualy shifting gears? I'd like to do a paddle shift conversion. Is there an easy way to do that with the 4l60e?

Is everything I've planned enough to get me down to 3000lbs?

Is a rollbar a good idea for a car like this? I plan on pretty well stripping everything rear of the driver's seat, so should I just go ahead and weld in some tubes?

For the money, is there a better way to get the power I want? Idealy, I want the whole running gear together for 6500. That's including the trans, rearend, all the engine accesories. Also the driver's seat needs an upgrade soon too. Only the hip-belt works right now, and I plan on getting new buckets anyways so we'll add that cost into my budget. I think a 350 is gonna be the best bang for the buck. But if I'm gonna shell out 1,500 for aluminum heads...

Just in general any advice ya'll can give me on this build would be helpfull. Sorry if this isn't strictly an engine swap thing, but it seemed most relevant to this forum. And also sorry if I'm asking redundant questions. I've lurked on this forum for a bit trying to peice together answers, but I just keep comming up with more questions!

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Those are some pretty ambitious plans and a pretty tight budget. I've got 6500 in motor alone with almost the same rwhp. (I've got room for more power though.)

I'd reconsider going the LS route, it may add a *little* complexity, but don't shy away from it just cuz you don't know all the details.

I didn't even know you could get an '87 with a CC carb? but most will probably recommend ditching it, either for a real carb, or some form of EFI

I think subframe connectors would suffice for your goals.

I've heard manual valve bodies are a bad idea for road racing, but I think you'll end up doing most of an autox circuit in one gear anyway, so maybe it would work out ok.

thirdgenmattw

Ok, reviving this thread for some new q's.

First off, thanks to 88gunmetalgta for the reply.

Now, I've settled on building a 350sbc. I figured I'd be pulling a junkyard core to rebuild and re-using the stock crank and rods(if they're in good shape) since I'm not planning on getting big power. So my question is, will my 305 crank&rods work in a 350 block? Because it may be cheaper to buy a bare block from summit at $650

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150100/

rather than getting a junk'd motor and rebuilding that. I know the crank will need to be re-balenced for the bigger pistons, and the rods might need work too. But is there any other reason not to use the 305 parts? I doubt my build will break 400 crank hp...Are the mains the same on a 350 block? Also, is the 305 oil pan a fit for a 350 block?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I think you need to do a little more reading....

Standard 350 rods are 5.7" long, and the stroke is 3.48". That should be enough to get you started figuring out if you can reuse 305 crank and rods.

As far as oil pan. 305 vs 350 is not the issue. 1 piece rear main seal vs 2 piece is what you need to pay attention to. Also, the dipstick moved from drivers side to passenger side somewhere in there too.

Zantasmo

LS1 is the way to go. Use carb, if you don't want to hassle with wires.
Ideal choice for autocross, daily driver, for everything.
I have a 2002 LS1 in my '87 Iroc, and it puts out 320 horses in the rear wheels, everything else is stock but longtubes.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I have no clue what the RWHP of my car is, but '82 Berlinetta with 2000 Camaro LS1/4L60E, shaved 317 heads, LS6 intake and cam, AC delete, 3400 stall converter, 3.73 gears, 9.50-26x14 Hoosier QTP DOT rears, 3450 going down the track, runs 12.0's @ 112 MPH at sea level. On the highway, will get 23 MPG without trying too hard. I drive it to work several times a week (take the '95 6.5TD truck if I want to listen to a CD or XM Radio).

I haven't autocrossed it, simply haven't done anything to get into that. If I did, though, I'd probably put the 245-45x16 GS-C's on the '82 Berlinetta with 2000 Camaro LS1/T56 & 4.11's before heading out. It's about half a second slower than the automatic car at the drag strip (with 26-10.0x15 ET Drags).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Stick with EFI if you don't want the hassle and expense of a carb conversion, or the fuel slosh issues that come up with carb going around corners.

1gary

X2

thirdgenmattw

mmmm...ls1. Yeah it'd be nice. But I think it's both too much time and $$$ for what I'm wanting to do. At this point some of my choices have been made for me. My priorities kinda have to be Budget>Fun>brain stem telling me to build an aluminum big block with nitrous

@

305's have 3.48 stroke and 5.7 rods. What about the mains though? That's what I'm realy worried about. That and if the 305 crank can readily be balenced for 4'' pistons.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Aluminum big block with nitrous? What are you talking about?

I have no clue why you're talking about a 305 crank in a 350. FWIW, they use the same blank, same journal sizes, different balancing. To rebalance a 305 crank to 350 would cost more money than buying a 350 crank. Buying a 350 builder shortblock would give you the block, crank, and rods. If budget > fun, then it doesn't make a lick of sense to start with anything other than a builder 350.

ex-x-fire

If you go with sbc, make sure you get a vortec engine, it'll have all the roller cam stuff & good flowing heads (for the $).

thirdgenmattw

@five7kid

I'm just saying that I've gotta keep this project from snowballing into something way beyond what I'd origonaly planned. i.e. ending up shoe-horning in a big block with a big nitrous shot on top. Sorry, sometimes I'm the only one who gets my [lame] jokes! I'll admit the premise was a strech too...

As for why I was thinking about doing this, I was realy thinking along the lines of 'why not?'. If you say it'd be more expensive then I'll just drop the idea and start looking for a complete junkyrad 350. Thanks for you help!

prplestanghazer

the 305 crank, rods with polished beams, and get an average weight of your bare 305 pistons, and call around and find a forged piston within +/- 5 grams.....of that weight and have it balanced if you desire....it make a lil more hp then the 350 crank due to the lighter rotating assymbly...the summit block for 650 include shipping? im not sure where your located but i can buy a 350 block and have it machined by a local shop way cheaper then that if your doin any kind of autocross.....i would recommend leaveing the powersteering.......

prplestanghazer

the 2wd s10 axles wont work in a camaro...too short. and 4wd are too long....the differentials will bolt in, make sure you get 2wd shortbed truck diff though.....it will be 26 spline, the ext cab and blazer 2wd are 28 spline, and 4wd, you can use the 28 spline carrier, but you have to find axles from a fox body 8.8 and have the chevy pattern machine into them

prplestanghazer

for the hyd roller, id call bullet cams and have one custom ground, you can have the stock blank reground for 150 i think, and a complete new core for 300, you give him all your specs and what you want to do with it and hell grind a good cam

prplestanghazer

imo id go with the rotating ***. i mentioned a few post back, cast production vortec heads, have a good reputable machine do a valve job, have them cut the intake from a 1.94 down to a 1.90, if you dont have or want to spend money have the bowls ported, and port matched, if you do, leave the 1.94 valve, get a regular carb intake, with a tbi, and convert the car over if its not already there......which ive never seen an 87 cc carb like the other poster said....the production vortecs need the guides cutdown to keep the ratainer from hittin them.....vortecs need a cam around 550 lift for best power

FlyDoc

your Plans are great, just make a list of what you want to do over time. With not being your main transportation it gives you the ability to work on it for ?how ever you want / need to.
for engine power I would go with an LS series, with a 6speed like you want bur stay with EFI. I also would put in a Holley HP ECU, yes it is pricey, but it tunes it's self, and you can make engine changes and it will make those ECU changes for you.

prplestanghazer

dollar for dollar the ls,auto with a factory ecm will be the cheapest id think......maybe a 6.0 and shop around for the fbody pulleys and brackets

1gary

Ah-by the time you have all that work done on Vortec's(yeah don't forget the springs or atleast shims for over a 500 lift)you could buy a set of aftermarket heads with all that done.

Progressive builds because the funds aren't quite there yet end up costing more in the long run with do overs.A better plan is to consider where you want to end up and considering these projects don't have or should not have a completion date,save more money to do that build you wanted in the first place.It is not a pc meal build like it has been in the past.We know so much more now and understand that a build is a big picture project with crank,rod length,pistons,deck height,head gasket thickness,SCR,cam,heads,car wt,read end ratio,etc,all working together.

A great set of heads and induction doesn't make much sense on the bottom of the barrel bottom end.How would feel if you had that and a rod windowed a cylinder.Kind of foolish huh.While I am at it,we have found tons of issues with the brand name Eagle.I suggest you stay away from that.

It isn't worth it to invest in stock rods.Again the aftermarket pricing for a whole lot better rod it a better investment all day long.

Plan your build and of course build your long term build now.It saves you alot of money.