skinny z

I came across a post in another thread regarding Holley/Hooker headers and saw this reply from Holley regarding availability:

Sure enough, none of the header part numbers come up at Holley at this time. LS swap or Gen 1 versions included.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

What are the new rules? Can't they just continue selling them under the 'not to be used on any highway' rule?
The usual 'racing only' rule?

Edit: The shorties still pop up....painted, ceramic, and stainless.....

Komet

Summit says they're available by February?

skinny z

Yeah, But those are probably mandated systems. AIR tubes and all that.
But to have wiped out about a half dozen part numbers is an eye opener.

Typical Summit BS. Any target date is guaranteed to be changed. If the manufacturer has none, then Summit has none.

skinny z

I reached out to toddoky, our Holley go to guy but he hasn't been around this forum since last summer. He was our link to development and timelines although I've yet to hear back. Could be he's long gone from there along with the headers.

@toddoky

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I replied to the tech that I quoted, and I asked for more specific information. His reply to my initial inquiry was one day, so hopefully I'll hear from him tomorrow.

His statements weren't vague, like maybe, I think, or anything of the sort. In that quote, he spoke surely.

So far, all of the products still appear to be available, but it could be that they're on clearance, and once they're gone, then they're gone.

jayg

Bummer, was just about pull the trigger.

skinny z

I couldn't find a single long tube for a third gen on their website. No Gen 1. No LS swap. Nothing except the shorties.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I received a reply this morning. It's kind of vague, but it has to do with the 1975+ smog laws, and it appears that only long tubes will be illegal to sell, but not all shorties or manifolds. And it sounds like this will be the industry standard going forward.

1974 and earlier cars will still have all options available to them. But for 1975 and later cars, headers and manifolds that aren't designed to allow for the retention of a car's factory exhaust and catalytic converter will no longer be legal to sell.

Shorties and manifolds will apparently still be legal because they're adaptable to a car's factory exhaust system and cat. I guess that would have to pertain to air tubes too, which would mean ONLY the 2055 headers will be legal for Holley/Hooker to sell for 3rdgens.

Long tubes are not designed to be adaptable, so it looks like it will be illegal for them to be sold for all 75+ cars.

But this is apparently being fought, so it could change, but I doubt it will.

Sounds like there will be a new "black market" on the rise.

vinny R

This makes no sense to me. This country is $%@*! They want to phase out the sale of gas powered engines by 2035, not just in CA. This is GM's target date to have no more gas engines in ALL their vehicles.
So at this point what the hell is it going to hurt to sell these products that have been sold for years? Demand for these parts will slowly decrease and the amount of old vehicles on the road with long tube pollution is negligible. I don't have headers and my air pump and Cat have been removed and I live in a non inspection state. The EPA should be worried more about folks like me. Most of the post 1975 smog stuff has all failed by now and those cars pollute alot more than some old hot rodder wanting long tubes.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Democrats

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I thought hooker was headquartered in California, could be that California enacted a law about it being illegal to manufacture any part that doesn't allow for use of the factory emissions equipment. It's of no real concern. There are used sets out there and countries outside the US will produce them still. Not to mention the small shops that make them. I really wouldn't fret because you can just buy the Chevrolet e crate motor that is 50 state legal and have your own set custom made. My over-riding thought remains the same: in 10 years the popular modification will be electric. Accept it and position yourself for it.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

3rdgen SBC long tubes from Hooker and Headman, both of which are under Holley's roof, are still showing available on ebay. Hooker's are expensive, Hedman's are not.

There are the ever popular $200 "ebay" 3rdgen LS-swap long tubes. They've been installed on some pretty stout builds by TGO members.

Doug's still offers long tubes for SBC 3rdgens. Prices are similar to Hooker. Doug's corporate is in California, but the manufacturing facility is in Mexico, for EPA reasons.

Hooker was born in California, but I don't know if manufacturing is still in CA or not. Doug's told me, so it may or may not be true, that since Holley acquired Hooker, Hooker brand products, such as headers, are now manufactured at Holley's facilities in Bowling Green. Its generic parts, such as y-pipes, are now manufactured in China, and construction can be shoddy. The y-pipe Holley sent me, that I sent back, certainly was shoddy, but it looked more like it had been previously sold, the customer hacked it, then returned it, and Holley resold it.

For shorties, I just found a new "ebay" brand that I haven't seen before called Power Go. Looks like a Hooker 2460 knockoff (and Doug's 3320 and Patriot 8068). $159. Might be worth a physical comparison, since I still have 60 days to return my Hooker 2460s.

skinny z

What I liked about the Hooker setup was that it could installed as a system. No fabrication required. Or very little anyway
As it is, I've still got my Hedman headers and a stainless y-pipe made from Vibrant bends. If fits like a glove with the 3" Flowmaster cat back exhaust. But I could certainly benefit from duals. Even 2 x 2 1/2" would be a step up particularly with two mufflers instead of the single I have now.
That said, when I'm racing, it'll be open headers.

badtenant

iTrader: (1)

I think those retailers on eBay are drop ship just like Jegs/Summit. I assume those guy just haven't got the memo yet. I assume even if Holley has stock they can't sell it but I could be wrong. I wonder if anyone actually stocks those and might still have a few pairs...

skinny z

That would be the trick.
No numbers listed at Holley.
Summit shoes a "special order" status.
My guess is that it's all long gone from the various distributors (Jegs, eBay, et al) and any inventory at Holleuy is unavailable until this gets sorted. If it ever does.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Maybe I should have my car reappraised for part-out value instead of insurance value. LOL!

skinny z

You know Qwk, there's more to that than you might quip!

I'll bet the sum of my Camaro's parts is far greater than the whole. And it's a notion that I haven't dismissed entirely.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

That seems logical, even under current law. Modifying the exhaust by eliminating the cats and removing the AIR pumps has always been illegal for street driven vehicles. It was just never enforced. That may be changing. IMO, long tubes should still be available for race only applications. THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO GET THE RPM ACT PASSED!

https://www.sema.org/epa-news

AND THE REPAIR ACT.

https://www.semasan.com/legislative-...y-cosponsoring

I don't believe that is completely accurate. They are spending just shy of $1B to develop a new 6th gen small block.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/v-8-...FF7E9703CC09DB

TylerSteez

iTrader: (3)

Love how China is free to pollute the air and ocean as much as possible without any consequences but I can't have headers on a small block chevy

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Both are true. I also have no doubt that after reading about the hybrid Corvete that GM is serious when they talk about hybrids and electrification as their future.

McLovin1181

What do ya know, headers gone off the website.

I wouldn't worry, the Speed Engineering LS headers are still available.
I've used both, Hooker on my 92 and Speed Engineering on a 87 gutted Lucky Dog endurance car.
The Speed Engineering China stuff seemed to be higher quality than the hooker stuff; especially with weld quality.
not surprising as 90% of Holley's catalog is China junk. (The reason I refuse to buy anything made or owned by Holley)
Can't say anything about longevity though.
Both headers haven't been through torture tests yet.


Holley LS headers + 321 stainless 3in aerospace tube + Vibrant muffler mockup.

Custom order 304 stainless SpinTech muffler with oval exits.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I'm guessing a little company downsizing too,

https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...m-support.html

skinny z

That's a shame.

toddoky

Thanks for making the effort to post that link QwkTrip, I appreciate it. As I mention in that post, I will no longer be updating any Holley/Hooker Blackheart threads I’ve created here, but will gladly continue to answer any usage/tech related questions on the 3rd Gen Blackheart components I’ve designed over the years through my inbox here for those who choose to send me a PM. toddoky

skinny z

Hey toddoky!
I started this thread in the hopes you'd drop in and say hi.
Glad you did. Sorry to hear about the downsizing news. I've been part of that cycle more than once myself. The bright side is that it's always led to greener pastures. I hope the same happens for you too.
Stay tuned for PM! I'm sure I'll have a question or two regarding a few of the Holley products I invested in during your time there.
Thanks again and best of luck!
Kevin

vorteciroc

I am really sorry to hear about this.

And I am really pissed at Holley for purchasing all those Brands/ Companies... Just to end up having to lay people off.

I went through something similar with GM back in 2008.

Good Luck!!!

McLovin1181

Basically any publicly traded company over expanded in the past 10 years.
CEOs LOVE to expand because it looks great on paper, but usually blows up in their faces long term.
​​​​They are all downsizing rapidly to prepare for the looming 2023+ recession.
sucks because the CEO doesn't loose a thing, but employees lose their jobs.
Part of the reason I refuse to buy anything owned or made by Holley.

Boeing is hiring like mad right now if a factory or engineering job is your forte.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Sorry to hear about this toddoky. I too have been through the ups and downs of the auto and IT industries over the decades. Sadly, it's just part of it. As skinny z says, hopefully it will lead to something better for you.

89CamaroLS

McLovin1181, what are you using for a transmission cross member and torque arm in these pics? Thanks

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

That's the Holley Blackheart LS swap trans cross member. Torque arm doesn't appear in that picture. I'm sure he'll chime in.

89CamaroLS

Does anyone know if this cross member works with a Tremec TKX 5 speed?

badtenant

iTrader: (1)

I used the Holley Blackheart with my TKX.....It worked with my SBC setup. I'll know within the next 2 weeks if it works with my LS swap. I don't see it being an issue though.

89CamaroLS

Thanks, I'll be anxious to hear! I just spent 1/2 hour on the phone with Holley getting their opinion. The 71222005HKR was designed for the T56 and they said the TKX from the front of the case to the mounting pad is 5.8" shorter so I'd have to build some sort of adapter, they suggested starting with the one they sell for the 4L60E? Do you have to do any adapting when you put it in with your SBC?

badtenant

iTrader: (1)

I think I used the 4L60E which was just a tad bit too short. You could elongate the holes and it would work. I just used an adjustable transmission mount. As far as SBC, I didn't have to do anything special.

BigBlock73

iTrader: (1)

BMR fit my TKX conversion with no issues. Stock TPI engine.
https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=...413&superpro=0

UMI doesn't make one that fits the TKX.

WildCard600

I don't think that will clear the hooker dual exhaust.